Business administration.
[INTP]
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the market is flooded with mindless drones with business degrees.
the actual percentage of those mindless drones that actually utilize harnessing what they learned toward that degree is another story.
Although, not to discourage you from pursuits, but you should focus on what you love to do best and choose your career toward that direction. However, always have a backup plan. Cuz.. you know... in case of emergency.
They told me back then that computer science and programming was the way to go. Fast forward to present and coders/developers are a dime a dozen now. Pretty much have to fight everyone else to get a position. Once you're in the position, you're stuck there in hopes you can land the next higher up promo but god knows how long that's gonna be. And then, there's outsourcing, which plays a factor in this area, but that's beyond the scope of topic.
Each corporation is established on a different set of rules, but the pattern post-college appears to be the same where assimilation is entailed. Any INTP with a 'happy' career in the forum that can disprove of the above? I would like to learn your recipe for success if I may. Thank you.
the actual percentage of those mindless drones that actually utilize harnessing what they learned toward that degree is another story.
Although, not to discourage you from pursuits, but you should focus on what you love to do best and choose your career toward that direction. However, always have a backup plan. Cuz.. you know... in case of emergency.
They told me back then that computer science and programming was the way to go. Fast forward to present and coders/developers are a dime a dozen now. Pretty much have to fight everyone else to get a position. Once you're in the position, you're stuck there in hopes you can land the next higher up promo but god knows how long that's gonna be. And then, there's outsourcing, which plays a factor in this area, but that's beyond the scope of topic.
Each corporation is established on a different set of rules, but the pattern post-college appears to be the same where assimilation is entailed. Any INTP with a 'happy' career in the forum that can disprove of the above? I would like to learn your recipe for success if I may. Thank you.
I totally agree with what @qingdom just posted.
The first thing you need to take into account is what motivates you. If you do what you love you will find that you will become very good at it and even become a respected expert in your field.
Nowdays everybody has an MBA so that is almost like a high school diploma, I took some MBA courses at Uni and it just didn't appeal to me, it is boring and tedious.
But hey, you may feel different, it may be your passion, and in that case no matter how much competition there is, you will stand apart from the crowd.
I have also been encouraged to become an IT professional, but it seems that the competition is getting bigger and bigger, and it doesn't appeal to me either.
I know that I could become good at it, but I would be doomed to a life of mediocrity.
Do what you love, may sound cheesy, but it is actually true. Find your passion, your niche, and become an expert on your field.
The first thing you need to take into account is what motivates you. If you do what you love you will find that you will become very good at it and even become a respected expert in your field.
Nowdays everybody has an MBA so that is almost like a high school diploma, I took some MBA courses at Uni and it just didn't appeal to me, it is boring and tedious.
But hey, you may feel different, it may be your passion, and in that case no matter how much competition there is, you will stand apart from the crowd.
I have also been encouraged to become an IT professional, but it seems that the competition is getting bigger and bigger, and it doesn't appeal to me either.
I know that I could become good at it, but I would be doomed to a life of mediocrity.
Do what you love, may sound cheesy, but it is actually true. Find your passion, your niche, and become an expert on your field.
INxx types really love to give the advice of "doing what you love." While I generally agree with that notion, I think that INTPs (assuming you are one) are better helped by being given more factual, practical advice.
Make no mistakes, you need to be interested in the subject; this is an important criterion. However, there's more to it than that. Consider the economic situation you're placing yourself in.
In my opinion, MBAs, Computer Science, Psychology and Engineering graduates are a dime a dozen. If you choose these degrees, prepare yourself for tight competition and make sure you have ways to separate yourself from the competition.
Many people take Computer Science with Math/Physics/etc, but what if you try CS with Psychology? How many people will have a similar combination? If you can find a way to make the combination work, then you will have separated yourself from the hordes of CS holders. Of course, taking drastically different majors will often require more credits to be completed, but this is where you need to ask yourself whether it's worth it.
Have you also ever considered taking only one major, but at the same time taking isolated credits which are required for other majors? This may not give you any formal advantage over your rivals, but it may sharpen your skills. For example, along with my plan for getting a Math degree, I'm contemplating taking classes on Design and Methodology classes from Psychology, Logic and Critical Thinking classes from philosophy, Writing and Presentation classes (if any) from English/any equivalent degree. I'm trying to improve my Logical-Mathematical and Verbal intelligence by doing so. I'm also thinking about taking some Economics classes.
Also, consider the possible extra-curricular activities you can take. For me I'd try Debate, Public Speaking, Substitute Teachers, Research, Market Analysis work, etc.
Be creative. Stand out. Succeed.
Make no mistakes, you need to be interested in the subject; this is an important criterion. However, there's more to it than that. Consider the economic situation you're placing yourself in.
In my opinion, MBAs, Computer Science, Psychology and Engineering graduates are a dime a dozen. If you choose these degrees, prepare yourself for tight competition and make sure you have ways to separate yourself from the competition.
Many people take Computer Science with Math/Physics/etc, but what if you try CS with Psychology? How many people will have a similar combination? If you can find a way to make the combination work, then you will have separated yourself from the hordes of CS holders. Of course, taking drastically different majors will often require more credits to be completed, but this is where you need to ask yourself whether it's worth it.
Have you also ever considered taking only one major, but at the same time taking isolated credits which are required for other majors? This may not give you any formal advantage over your rivals, but it may sharpen your skills. For example, along with my plan for getting a Math degree, I'm contemplating taking classes on Design and Methodology classes from Psychology, Logic and Critical Thinking classes from philosophy, Writing and Presentation classes (if any) from English/any equivalent degree. I'm trying to improve my Logical-Mathematical and Verbal intelligence by doing so. I'm also thinking about taking some Economics classes.
Also, consider the possible extra-curricular activities you can take. For me I'd try Debate, Public Speaking, Substitute Teachers, Research, Market Analysis work, etc.
Be creative. Stand out. Succeed.
I'm graduating with a degree in Business Administration and a Minor in Computer Science. Right now I'm building my own business so I'm not really looking for a job. Business Administration is a pretty generic degree, but if you can combine it with a skill like programming or anything else, it will make you stand out. Standing out is basically the most important trait to getting a job.
Also, for people that are saying everyone has a Computer Science degree, that is certainly not the case, and the demand for people with programming skills is INSANELY high. The whole world is moving toward being technology oriented, and if you developing programming skills, you are almost guaranteed to be in demand for the rest of your life. It's funny that the current meme is "There are too many people in Computer Science" which is causing college students to shy away from the field. When in reality, the fields that people are saying to go into like Accounting are completely flooded with recent grads.
Enough of that rant. I really suggest learning some programming skills and/or marketing skills to go along with a Business Administration major. And like it has already been mentioned before, just make sure you STAND OUT.
Also, for people that are saying everyone has a Computer Science degree, that is certainly not the case, and the demand for people with programming skills is INSANELY high. The whole world is moving toward being technology oriented, and if you developing programming skills, you are almost guaranteed to be in demand for the rest of your life. It's funny that the current meme is "There are too many people in Computer Science" which is causing college students to shy away from the field. When in reality, the fields that people are saying to go into like Accounting are completely flooded with recent grads.
Enough of that rant. I really suggest learning some programming skills and/or marketing skills to go along with a Business Administration major. And like it has already been mentioned before, just make sure you STAND OUT.
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A business administration degree is helpful in the sense that it will teach you some fundamentals about operating a business. What it will not do is set you apart from anyone else in terms of hireability, nor will it suddenly embue you with the entrepreneureal skills needed to create a successful business... you're on your own for that.
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Healthcare is a hot field that will always offer gainful employment. Engineering, too.
I work in healthcare sales - I'm a manager for a medical weight control company. I truly love my job. It doesn't feel like work at all - I get to help people lose weight and improve their overall health. It is very rewarding and allows for a nice combination of social and non-social activities. I do interact with people quite a bit, but I also get a good amount of quiet analytical time (working on financial projections, goals, etc).
I work in healthcare sales - I'm a manager for a medical weight control company. I truly love my job. It doesn't feel like work at all - I get to help people lose weight and improve their overall health. It is very rewarding and allows for a nice combination of social and non-social activities. I do interact with people quite a bit, but I also get a good amount of quiet analytical time (working on financial projections, goals, etc).
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This is VERY true. I've owned two businesses and helped run a third (w/ex-husband). You really do learn on the fly when you are self-employed.
Doing what you love is also backed up by scientific research. Studies have shown that doing what you are passionate about increases your creativity, and working for money decreases it.
This TED talk reveals a very interesting experiment that proves how doing what you love increases your creativity and motivation.
[video]http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html[/video]
No matter how broad is your field, if you don't like what you do you will suck at it!
This TED talk reveals a very interesting experiment that proves how doing what you love increases your creativity and motivation.
[video]http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html[/video]
No matter how broad is your field, if you don't like what you do you will suck at it!
@Ambiguous :
I'm not saying that everyone has a CS degree, I'm just saying that it seems quite common, especially among INxx types. I do agree that it is quite useful, and I'm contemplating on learning a few basic languages (C++,VB, Java, JS, Phyton, etc) in my free time, since I have a future plan for a business that requires it.
Accounting is pretty popular here too; I avoid it like the plague. I also find Accounting to be easier in comparison to Pure Mathematics.
@Snakecharmer :
What brand of engineering will always be high in demand? I imagine Electrical, Electronics and Mechanical will be for this era, I can't see much else though.
Also, there really isn't a real need to acquire a formal qualification just to learn about how to manage a business...one can just read the materials during one's free time.
@joellr17 :
What happens when you combine the effects of both? The money aspects will negate some of the effects of your passion. Besides, how do you determine what you're passionate about, and how can you quantify the intensity of your passion to counter the negative effects of pursuing wealth?
Also, this passion advice wouldn't work for certain brands of people. I love Philosophy, Psychology, Statistics, Research, Solution Designing (e.g. I would create an education software to improve learning), Singing, Writing, Swimming, and Strategizing.
Aside from Statistics and Strategizing, I can't see how any other my other interests will lead me to an affluent career. Solution Designing requires a myriad of soft and hard skills, Singing requires looks and competence (I did not start singing early), Writing is not profitable at the beginning, and won't be for most people, Research probably won't garner much cash either unless you're the CEO of the company. Philosophy and Psychology...let's not even go there.
This barely leaves me any choice but to pursue a degree in Mathematics, with a probably specialization in Applied Mathematics. As with many INTPs, when we don't have choices, even things that we are interested in becomes a drag if we have to perform in it exclusively. Engineering...seems to be long and painful route for me, so I'm not considering it.
Also, following your passion is possible if you only have job satisfaction as your main goal. But for people with a myriad of interests they wish to pursue, I just don't see how following your passion would be enough, as you need quite a decent salary to fund your interests. You also have less time to pursue your passion if you have a myriad of interests you wish to fulfill.
In conclusion, I think that the "follow your passion" argument only works for people whose interests align with profitable careers (probably ESxx types and xxTJ types) in the first place. For the record, there is a research which reveals that INTPs are among the types with the least job satisfaction. I wonder why?
EDIT:
There are exceptions, of course. N types would benefit the most from making themselves stand out as much as possible from the crowd. So yes...standing out is still the main advice for me.
I'm not saying that everyone has a CS degree, I'm just saying that it seems quite common, especially among INxx types. I do agree that it is quite useful, and I'm contemplating on learning a few basic languages (C++,VB, Java, JS, Phyton, etc) in my free time, since I have a future plan for a business that requires it.
Accounting is pretty popular here too; I avoid it like the plague. I also find Accounting to be easier in comparison to Pure Mathematics.
@Snakecharmer :
What brand of engineering will always be high in demand? I imagine Electrical, Electronics and Mechanical will be for this era, I can't see much else though.
Also, there really isn't a real need to acquire a formal qualification just to learn about how to manage a business...one can just read the materials during one's free time.
@joellr17 :
What happens when you combine the effects of both? The money aspects will negate some of the effects of your passion. Besides, how do you determine what you're passionate about, and how can you quantify the intensity of your passion to counter the negative effects of pursuing wealth?
Also, this passion advice wouldn't work for certain brands of people. I love Philosophy, Psychology, Statistics, Research, Solution Designing (e.g. I would create an education software to improve learning), Singing, Writing, Swimming, and Strategizing.
Aside from Statistics and Strategizing, I can't see how any other my other interests will lead me to an affluent career. Solution Designing requires a myriad of soft and hard skills, Singing requires looks and competence (I did not start singing early), Writing is not profitable at the beginning, and won't be for most people, Research probably won't garner much cash either unless you're the CEO of the company. Philosophy and Psychology...let's not even go there.
This barely leaves me any choice but to pursue a degree in Mathematics, with a probably specialization in Applied Mathematics. As with many INTPs, when we don't have choices, even things that we are interested in becomes a drag if we have to perform in it exclusively. Engineering...seems to be long and painful route for me, so I'm not considering it.
Also, following your passion is possible if you only have job satisfaction as your main goal. But for people with a myriad of interests they wish to pursue, I just don't see how following your passion would be enough, as you need quite a decent salary to fund your interests. You also have less time to pursue your passion if you have a myriad of interests you wish to fulfill.
In conclusion, I think that the "follow your passion" argument only works for people whose interests align with profitable careers (probably ESxx types and xxTJ types) in the first place. For the record, there is a research which reveals that INTPs are among the types with the least job satisfaction. I wonder why?
EDIT:
There are exceptions, of course. N types would benefit the most from making themselves stand out as much as possible from the crowd. So yes...standing out is still the main advice for me.
Yes, the market is flooded with business degrees. Quite frankly, it's better to branch out into something else because an MBA is basically worthless nowadays.
@Larxene I was just saying in general. I didn't mean it to call you out in particular if it came off that way. I'm just saying I have no doubt that CS majors with any talent are in huge demand. Look at the West Coast, there's Venture Capitalists funding any halfway promising idea. Instagram just sold for $1 billion, Draw Something's company was bought for $200 million. People are giving these start ups $30-60 million if their apps or programs are getting any traction.
I do agree though that Business degrees are flooded. But read some business books on the side. Learn how it really works, it's extremely valuable. Also, combining business and programming skills is in insane demand right now. Some universities are FINALLY getting around to offering programs that combine the two.
Oh yeah and I forgot to mention. AVOID accounting at all costs. Trust me, I spent over 3 years convincing myself I could major in it. The job market isn't as great as it sounds, and you'll just feel like all your potential is confined into a little tiny box and like you can't breathe.
I do agree though that Business degrees are flooded. But read some business books on the side. Learn how it really works, it's extremely valuable. Also, combining business and programming skills is in insane demand right now. Some universities are FINALLY getting around to offering programs that combine the two.
Oh yeah and I forgot to mention. AVOID accounting at all costs. Trust me, I spent over 3 years convincing myself I could major in it. The job market isn't as great as it sounds, and you'll just feel like all your potential is confined into a little tiny box and like you can't breathe.
@Ambiguous:
Don't worry. I know you're not calling me out in particular. When I phrased it I thought you would think that I'm thinking that I'm being called out. That was a little...experiment.
Yes, talent itself is a standing out mechanism.
Yes, read business books in your free time, but there's no real need to take a degree just to learn it. If you're above average in IQ or have high intrapersonal/interpersonal intelligence, you can succeed without that. Business concepts don't take much brainpower to understand.
I'd never do something as repetitive as Accounting. My Ne will die.
@OP:
After reading this post, http://personalitycafe.com/education-career-talk/92470-innovation-team.html, I have something to add to my argument on passion.
Watch the video. The latter half theory is called the self-determination theory. It's something good to know if you want to perform well.
Don't worry. I know you're not calling me out in particular. When I phrased it I thought you would think that I'm thinking that I'm being called out. That was a little...experiment.
Yes, talent itself is a standing out mechanism.
Yes, read business books in your free time, but there's no real need to take a degree just to learn it. If you're above average in IQ or have high intrapersonal/interpersonal intelligence, you can succeed without that. Business concepts don't take much brainpower to understand.
I'd never do something as repetitive as Accounting. My Ne will die.
@OP:
After reading this post, http://personalitycafe.com/education-career-talk/92470-innovation-team.html, I have something to add to my argument on passion.
Watch the video. The latter half theory is called the self-determination theory. It's something good to know if you want to perform well.
Haha glad I could be of assistance to your experiment
Business concepts are relatively simple, but there's few things more rewarding to Ti to figure out how to create the largest amount of profits requiring the least amount of effort.
Self Determination theory looks pretty interesting. I'm gonna look into it more tomorrow.
@OP
To be more specific on the standing out part. When you do end up looking for a job, make a kick ass resume and a cover letter that is specific to the company you are applying for. Make them realize you know they company and know what you are talking about. Don't listen to your career guidance councilor at your school. Be more creative than that. Never go to a job expo with 300 people competing for 3 jobs, a complete waste of time. Try and contact companies directly or in a way that separates you from the competition.
Business concepts are relatively simple, but there's few things more rewarding to Ti to figure out how to create the largest amount of profits requiring the least amount of effort.
Self Determination theory looks pretty interesting. I'm gonna look into it more tomorrow.
@OP
To be more specific on the standing out part. When you do end up looking for a job, make a kick ass resume and a cover letter that is specific to the company you are applying for. Make them realize you know they company and know what you are talking about. Don't listen to your career guidance councilor at your school. Be more creative than that. Never go to a job expo with 300 people competing for 3 jobs, a complete waste of time. Try and contact companies directly or in a way that separates you from the competition.
@Larxene:
I think that the problem is that people often confuse passion with interests.
Psychology, philosophy, singing, writing are not passions, those are interests.
Interest is something that caught your attention because you saw a performance, or any other reason.
A passion depends on the set of skills (intelligences) you were born with.
The mastery of a skill is one of the most powerful human drives there is, that’s why people enjoy so much learning to play a musical instrument, as much as they enjoy performing for an audience.
There are people that enjoy learning to cook a new recipe even more than they enjoy eating what they cook.
We find our passion in mastering what we are naturally good at.
I as an INTP have discovered that my biggest passion is analyzing, and theorizing and that can be applied to a bunch of different interests.
I can become and analyzer of systems, of the economy, history, psychology, you name it… everything that can be analyzed will be my passion because analysis is my passion and philosophy, psychology etc… are my interests.
Studies have shown that money doesn’t get in the way as long as you are paid what you consider to be just, and wealth is not used as an incentive to get you to do your job.
What I am saying is that money is not the problem, but the carrots and sticks motivation system is what kills creativity.
And whatever you do can be profitable as long as you are good at what you do and think outside the box.
Every single field, whether it is philosophy, psychology, drawing etc… exist because it satisfies a human need.
Philosophy exist because we have a need for knowledge, Art exist because we have a need for experiencing emotions.
As long as there are needs, there is demand, you just need a way to deliver the satisfaction of those needs, and that’s when creativity comes into the picture.
I think that the problem is that people often confuse passion with interests.
Psychology, philosophy, singing, writing are not passions, those are interests.
Interest is something that caught your attention because you saw a performance, or any other reason.
A passion depends on the set of skills (intelligences) you were born with.
The mastery of a skill is one of the most powerful human drives there is, that’s why people enjoy so much learning to play a musical instrument, as much as they enjoy performing for an audience.
There are people that enjoy learning to cook a new recipe even more than they enjoy eating what they cook.
We find our passion in mastering what we are naturally good at.
I as an INTP have discovered that my biggest passion is analyzing, and theorizing and that can be applied to a bunch of different interests.
I can become and analyzer of systems, of the economy, history, psychology, you name it… everything that can be analyzed will be my passion because analysis is my passion and philosophy, psychology etc… are my interests.
Studies have shown that money doesn’t get in the way as long as you are paid what you consider to be just, and wealth is not used as an incentive to get you to do your job.
What I am saying is that money is not the problem, but the carrots and sticks motivation system is what kills creativity.
And whatever you do can be profitable as long as you are good at what you do and think outside the box.
Every single field, whether it is philosophy, psychology, drawing etc… exist because it satisfies a human need.
Philosophy exist because we have a need for knowledge, Art exist because we have a need for experiencing emotions.
As long as there are needs, there is demand, you just need a way to deliver the satisfaction of those needs, and that’s when creativity comes into the picture.
@Ambiguous :
It's called leveraging. Making the most out of what you have with as little effort as possible.
Yes, self-determination theory is interesting. It looks pretty legit from my point of view.
@joellr17 :
Ah, then there is a need for people to clarify what is meant by passion whenever they mention it. "Do what you love" does not preclude people doing what they love but are incompetent at. Hence, this message is sometimes miscontrued as "You can do it as long as you do what you love."
What you call a passion is what Gallup researchers call Strengths in the book Strengths Finder and Now Discover Your Strengths. I personally didn't find much value in it except for the Actions to Take component, as my MBTI pretty much revealed most of my Strengths.
Most of what you mentioned is also mentioned in the video contained in the link I posted before this, what synchronity!
With that definition I can quite agree with your "follow your passion" meme.
"There are people that enjoy learning to cook a new recipe even more than they enjoy eating what they cook."
I happen to be one of them.
It's called leveraging. Making the most out of what you have with as little effort as possible.
Yes, self-determination theory is interesting. It looks pretty legit from my point of view.
@joellr17 :
Ah, then there is a need for people to clarify what is meant by passion whenever they mention it. "Do what you love" does not preclude people doing what they love but are incompetent at. Hence, this message is sometimes miscontrued as "You can do it as long as you do what you love."
What you call a passion is what Gallup researchers call Strengths in the book Strengths Finder and Now Discover Your Strengths. I personally didn't find much value in it except for the Actions to Take component, as my MBTI pretty much revealed most of my Strengths.
Most of what you mentioned is also mentioned in the video contained in the link I posted before this, what synchronity!
With that definition I can quite agree with your "follow your passion" meme.
"There are people that enjoy learning to cook a new recipe even more than they enjoy eating what they cook."
I happen to be one of them.
Yeah the problem was with semantics, when I wrote about passion I was actually thinking about something Kerisey wrote:@joellr17 :
Ah, then there is a need for people to clarify what is meant by passion whenever they mention it. "Do what you love" does not preclude people doing what they love but are incompetent at. Hence, this message is sometimes miscontrued as "You can do it as long as you do what you love."
What you call a passion is what Gallup researchers call Strengths in the book Strengths Finder and Now Discover Your Strengths. I personally didn't find much value in it except for the Actions to Take component, as my MBTI pretty much revealed most of my Strengths.
Most of what you mentioned is also mentioned in the video contained in the link I posted before this, what synchronity!
With that definition I can quite agree with your "follow your passion" meme.
"There are people that enjoy learning to cook a new recipe even more than they enjoy eating what they cook."
I happen to be one of them.
"We improve in doing things we're interested in doing, and have greater interest
in things we do well. Interest reinforces skill, skill reinforces interest, and
neither seems to be the starting point."
Here he uses the word "interest", but you know what I mean.
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