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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have recently...well, not discovered, but become much more annoyed by the fact that so many people I am surrounded by deny themselves or others certain pleasures and enjoyments for no other reason than that they "shouldn't" or they're not "supposed to."

It has led me to two possible conclusions: Either people are generally poorly thought out morons or I am missing the capacity to properly evaluate the general risk-benefit ratio of everyday activities.

This kind of craziness happens all the time.

"Would you like to try a bite of this?"

"No, no, I'm fine."

"But this is your favorite dish and you've never tried it from this restaurant."

"No, really, it's okay."

Are you so uncomfortable with accepting food from another person that it outweighs discovering a new delight? Is it so socially unacceptable to share food in a casual public setting that you are too embarrassed to indulge your desires? Are you f****** insane?

This type of behavior has led me to believe that my new favorite phrase is, "But why can't you/we?" I know exactly the arguments for why people behave in this manner, I guess what I'm asking is why society as a whole indulges their faultiness and stupidity.

How many times have you had someone in a workplace or classroom setting tell you, "I wish we could just (insert benign action here)." My response is almost always, "But why can't we? Let's just do it." It's usually responded to with, "Well, what if the boss/teacher finds out?" followed by me saying, "What if they do? They're not going to care."

I suppose I'm just supremely frustrated by self-imposed timidity. By when my view of taking a certain action sees much more benefit than risk and people still shrink from it. Let me be clear that I am referring to small things. Little actions that give a small joy to the participant which are not taken for reasons that cannot be articulated by that person. Or perhaps they do not want to articulate them because they are embarrassed by their reasoning? And if that is the case, why is this socially acceptable?

I think it bothers me most when said activity requires the participation of the other person and I can't make a unilateral decision. Has anyone else experienced frustration with this?
 

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I'm a part-time hedonist, but I -shouldn't- be a full time hedonist. Can't afford it. Liver would grow more resentful too and perhaps plot my death.
 
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My friends always tell me that I shouldn't go on electronics during class, draw during class, chew gum, eat candy, etc.
But the teachers don't really care, if you have an A anyway. :tongue:
I guess I could be called a hedonist.
Or just free from what society thinks is the right thing to do.
I don't know why people are so tied down by it. It doesn't make any sense.
 

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For some people, self-control is all they have. Some people use it as a reward system. Some people accept that there are consequences to their actions. Some people don't want others to think negatively of them. Some people just can't be bothered.

Like, the example you gave about a restaurant, maybe they just don't fancy that food at that moment. If it's their favourite dish, surely they'd have ordered it themselves? Maybe they don't like sharing food. Maybe they're germophobic. Maybe that food makes them gassy or something. Maybe they're just particular about their food. I love bacon sandwiches, but I like them done in a particular way, so I don't eat them when I go out. Sometimes, I just don't want a bacon sandwich. It doesn't mean anything.

And the classroom scenario. That's usually, "I wish we could just not turn up to this lesson." There are consequences to that. You may or may not be given detention. And you just have to catch up that work later. It's usually not worth it.

Giving into every whim all of the time is not really a great way to live, in my opinion. Even if it is just small things. Those small things snowball. I'm going to use the example of diet. If I ate chocolate or ice-cream every single time I wanted some, I'm pretty convinced I wouldn't be small enough to leave the kitchen again. The thought process of, "I want food now, so I'll have it," all of the time, just leads to you eating all of the time. There's no sense of moderation.

I agree, there's no need to deny yourself stuff just for the hell of it. But just because people don't give into their urges whenever, doesn't mean they're timid. Not everyone wants to experience "new delights". People all have odd quirks. Live with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's usually not worth it.
Please take this in the spirit with which it's intended, but this sentence tells me that you've missed the point entirely. What I'm saying is that people don't do things that they would enjoy when they are worth it. Like I said previously, I'm well aware of all the reasons why people might not take a certain action, and I understand that. Yeah, is someone who is lactose intolerant not going to order a milkshake even though they might love milkshakes? Of course. What I'm saying is that I notice many people deny themselves pleasure seemingly for no reason whatsoever. Now, you might say, well...you just don't understand that person and their motivations! Well, maybe I do understand their motivations and I think they're ridiculous and wrong. Society passes all sorts of judgements and this is one I disagree with. Why has it come down on the side of denying small pleasures with little to no consequences?
 

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I wonder if anyone else eschews hedonism out of laziness.

There have been numerous times when I've been of the mind to get drunk, but been too bored and tired and just decided to go to bed instead of staying up late enough to achieve such a state.

It's like a cycle almost. Boredom begets hedonism, boredom with hedonism begets...more boredom? Nihilism?
 

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Please take this in the spirit with which it's intended, but this sentence tells me that you've missed the point entirely. What I'm saying is that people don't do things that they would enjoy when they are worth it. Like I said previously, I'm well aware of all the reasons why people might not take a certain action, and I understand that. Yeah, is someone who is lactose intolerant not going to order a milkshake even though they might love milkshakes? Of course. What I'm saying is that I notice many people deny themselves pleasure seemingly for no reason whatsoever. Now, you might say, well...you just don't understand that person and their motivations! Well, maybe I do understand their motivations and I think they're ridiculous and wrong. Society passes all sorts of judgements and this is one I disagree with. Why has it come down on the side of denying small pleasures with little to no consequences?
I wonder if anyone else eschews hedonism out of laziness.
What Proteus says here is what I meant when I said it's not worth it sometimes. Excuse me for not explaining my point well enough. People don't always feel like doing stuff. I don't think that society has a lot to do with it. I think that people have all sorts of random reasons and motivations that might not make sense to you, but matter to them. People don't do or not do things without some kind of reason. I can't really think of any small pleasures with no consequences that people deny themselves. An example of what you mean would be more useful, but I appreciate that you're trying to make a general point.
 

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I can see why someone would refuse food or drink when offered to them. There are a variety of valid reasons ranging from not wanting to eat to not liking the way it smells. And if it is a portion from someone's plate, I would certainly refuse.

Drawing, texting, and so on in class is disrespectful. It means you are off-topic in regards to what is being taught. It may not seem like a big deal, but when you are teaching you see another side of it. Especially when you have people asking you questions about material you went over because they missed it while texting. And the world works like this: I used to train people at a former job. I just got to the point that I would call these people out and tell them their passing grade on the test would be ten percent higher (it was seventy-five percent). Most of them couldn't pass with eighty-five percent. If they really annoyed me I told them to visit HR and explain that they weren't interested in working there. HR took my side in every incident wherein I decided newly-hired trainees weren't suitable for the job.
 

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Drawing, texting, and so on in class is disrespectful. It means you are off-topic in regards to what is being taught. It may not seem like a big deal, but when you are teaching you see another side of it. Especially when you have people asking you questions about material you went over because they missed it while texting. And the world works like this: I used to train people at a former job. I just got to the point that I would call these people out and tell them their passing grade on the test would be ten percent higher (it was seventy-five percent). Most of them couldn't pass with eighty-five percent. If they really annoyed me I told them to visit HR and explain that they weren't interested in working there. HR took my side in every incident wherein I decided newly-hired trainees weren't suitable for the job.
I don't text during class. I'm usually looking up stuff that's related to the topic. For example, in science class we're having a grade science fair. I'm usually looking up things about my topic (check washing... haha). I can see how it could be seen as disrespectful, but I think that all of that time at the beginning of class that they spend going over every single detail of what we're supposed to do, which is usually the same thing that we did yesterday, is wasted.
As for drawing, I pay attention when I draw. I also saw something online (a TED talk) where this woman said that doodling (which is really all I'm doing) could actually be beneficial to learning and concentration.

And hey, anything's better than me just sleeping during class. I would consider that disrespectful, although I have accidentally done that before, after I couldn't sleep all of the night before.
 

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Live fast, die young, BU.
I don't want to be old. I don't want my body to slowly deteriorate to the point of breaking. I don't want to see myself grow slowly more inept and dimwitted. I don't want people to feel sorry for me all the time because my mind just can't keep up anymore.
But perhaps that perspective will change. But I don't see the point in living a few extra years if they're going to be mostly spent in delirium and confusion. That isn't my idea of "quality of life."
Of course, if everyone in a country dies before they're 30, then that's horrible. But there are probably other factors that are assisting in that, such as malnutrition and disease. The number itself doesn't mean anything, it's how those years are spent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What Proteus says here is what I meant when I said it's not worth it sometimes. Excuse me for not explaining my point well enough. People don't always feel like doing stuff. I don't think that society has a lot to do with it. I think that people have all sorts of random reasons and motivations that might not make sense to you, but matter to them. People don't do or not do things without some kind of reason. I can't really think of any small pleasures with no consequences that people deny themselves. An example of what you mean would be more useful, but I appreciate that you're trying to make a general point.
I fear that I have already made the mistake of providing a specific example. I find that all too often if you cite a specific case people focus intently on the minutiae of the example given and lose the proverbial forest for the particular leaf on the particular branch of a particular tree. I guess what I'm getting at is that it's understandable when someone has a deeply held belief or opinion on how one should act about an important issue that I may or may not agree with. But I notice that this behavior becomes, um, "fractalized" to the point where you have to doubt the ability of the person in question to properly evaluate the relative importance of things. I think a lot of that is externally absorbed. Call it society, or upbringing, or what-have-you.
 

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I don't text during class. I'm usually looking up stuff that's related to the topic. For example, in science class we're having a grade science fair. I'm usually looking up things about my topic (check washing... haha). I can see how it could be seen as disrespectful, but I think that all of that time at the beginning of class that they spend going over every single detail of what we're supposed to do, which is usually the same thing that we did yesterday, is wasted.
As for drawing, I pay attention when I draw. I also saw something online (a TED talk) where this woman said that doodling (which is really all I'm doing) could actually be beneficial to learning and concentration.

And hey, anything's better than me just sleeping during class. I would consider that disrespectful, although I have accidentally done that before, after I couldn't sleep all of the night before.
I don't have a problem with looking up relevant information, but I'm really big on the differences in the way people learn. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in education who don't have the cognitive capacity to understand that not everyone learns efficiently straight from the book, or they can't see the bigger picture about how other things can be relevant to their topic. I had a Spanish teacher get kind of upset because I looked up some Russian grammar in class to compare how the two worked. She could not understand that there are some very universal traits in how languages within a family (Indo-European languages) work, and that "seeing" these things through comparison with different languages helps people understand grammar.

I like TED videos, but there are quite a few I've seen which I think are garbage and the only thing that gives them any credibility is that the idiot in the video has a PhD. I'm not saying drawing doesn't help. I just have a problem with the idea because most people do those things in class because they aren't interested in the class.
 

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I like TED videos, but there are quite a few I've seen which I think are garbage and the only thing that gives them any credibility is that the idiot in the video has a PhD. I'm not saying drawing doesn't help. I just have a problem with the idea because most people do those things in class because they aren't interested in the class.
I've seen some awful ones since they put them up on Netflix.

@Haldir

I know exactly what you mean. I was in a bodega once buying a softdrink, and there weren't any in the cooler that were outside of a 6 pack. So I proceeded to pull one out of the 6 pack. The girl from work who was with me got all flustered like "are you supposed to do that???" and I tried to explain to her that the guy would rather make the sale outside of a 6 pack, because he makes more per individual can. And I tried to tell her that in most bodegas, the guys break up six packs themselves to resell. But she kept freaking out.

So I got to the register and asked the owner if it was ok and he was like "of course, no problem"...

This girl was freaking out over something that trivial. Because she wasn't sure what the proper protocol was in the situation.
 

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I don't have a problem with looking up relevant information, but I'm really big on the differences in the way people learn. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in education who don't have the cognitive capacity to understand that not everyone learns efficiently straight from the book, or they can't see the bigger picture about how other things can be relevant to their topic. I had a Spanish teacher get kind of upset because I looked up some Russian grammar in class to compare how the two worked. She could not understand that there are some very universal traits in how languages within a family (Indo-European languages) work, and that "seeing" these things through comparison with different languages helps people understand grammar.

I like TED videos, but there are quite a few I've seen which I think are garbage and the only thing that gives them any credibility is that the idiot in the video has a PhD. I'm not saying drawing doesn't help. I just have a problem with the idea because most people do those things in class because they aren't interested in the class.
My spanish teacher doesn't really seem to care what I do, as long as I do the work correctly. I have several teachers like that. I'm technically not supposed to be carrying a bag around school, but I do that anyway. The teachers don't pay any attention to me, but they've gotten other kids in trouble with it, mostly because they're the distracting from class types.

It keeps me awake, personally. Sometimes I just get so dreadfully bored, plus the tiredness, and drawing sort of wakes me up.
 

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But why care? Let them do what they want when they want for whatever reason (logical or not). For the most part I lean more towards hedonism (perhaps misguided hedonism) and do what makes me feel good at that given moment (past and future are illusions, I only worry about the present), and while I have an opinion on people who don't do what they truly want to because of some lame ass excuse, I loose no sleep or thought do to their decision. Let them limit themselves, worry about you in regards to these types of situations.

Also, this threads title reminded me of...

 
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