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If you have trouble connecting to people on an emotional level, you have a couple options. Either do what I did, and study the concept and learn how to improve (because while you won't ever be on their level naturally, you can get much better), find friends who don't care that you can't meet them there and don't judge you for it and don't find you boring, or find friends that are just as emotionally constipated as you, so you can all suck together (a viable option!). It just depends on what you value, what you want to put time into, and what seems like it will lead to something that makes you content (or god forbid, happy). Realize that you have more agency in this predicament than you think.

My main advice would be to abstain from jumping to conclusions when you don't have enough data, and be careful about degrading women in your mind who care about those things just because you don't care about them, as that's an easy street to internalized misogyny.
Most salient points. Also to owner of this thread, consider CP6 as your type. You seem to lack of understanding on type 8
 

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ENFJ 8w7 so/sx 24years old female here.

1. Yes, countless female friends. I'm a social first btw. Male friends tend to find me attractive later on due to my personality, which bother me a lot.

2. I'm mostly interested in financial, business, philosophy and spiritual discussion but aside that, I can listen to other topics (regardless my interest and expertise) for an hour or two max.

3. They love and admire me but somewhat intimidated. I can relate with female fashion like handbag, branded make up etc I'm a female after all. Even if topics I'm not good at they would love to talk with me because I'm good listener regardless topic. Also I always suggest people the fun thing to do together so nope, they don't get bored with me.

4. It's easy to understand how they feel but not necessarily easy to share mutual feelings on the topic so I don't usually get into argument if I found that they're hurt, regardless the rationality behind their emotions. Also I find that it's a lot easier to spot somebody playing victim but somehow most women and men don't see that unless they're ENTP for some reason.

5. I tend to be very friendly, somewhat helpful and a good listener. These qualities are enough to bond intimacy with most people but I genuinely don't feel I'm too close to them as much as they do. As of control, I usually let others control but beneath it I know the fact I'm the one with the most influence in the group or place, so if anything happen I can give in/direct and they would listen to me.

6. 60% men are attracted to me romantically and 40% mutual rivalry or jealousy. As weird as this sounds, this 40% men often see me like I'm a man myself as if I was about to snatch their girlfriend and position (I can tho, no offence).

7. I wear emotions on my sleeve buddy, and it doesn't make me feel weak or vulnerable. Vulnerability comes from allowing people to have impact on me and as long I'm not giving this permission, regardless whatever emotions I genuinely expressing, I'm on the safe side.

8. I think it's more because I grown up with relatively healthy family and surrounding, as well as for being an ENFJ and social first.

I think what you need to understand about 8 females is they are eventually an individual raised up differently. There are many factors that shape their personality. Geographically, I would expect most 8 females in my area to be the loving and daring mama bear, making friends with other females and embrace femininity happily due to cultural and religion factor.
very close to me... estp 8w9 so/sx

my 'vulnerability'/weak spot is inferior intuition... fear of revealing 'my role' , as it would reveal weaknesses.

for enfj , i would imagine the vulnerable part are thoughts... inferior introverted thinking... sharing what you think.
 

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1 - do you have many female friends?
All my "best" friends are female; there are dudes in our friend group. They are friend(s) but I would never "best friend" one.

I find most hypermasculine environments boring participation wise & unnecessary for me to be in that space, lul. Aside from sports, I don't find them all that unless other women are there. & I mostly prefer playing sports, than just sitting there talking & debating them. That is boring.

I don't consider "STEM" hypermasculine environments, btw. I am talking about dudebro conversations & stuff. I think (STEM) has a good combo of both & most of those dudes are mostly passive & I do just fine there, usually.

2. do you find female conversations interesting? do you find that women mostly talk about relational issues such as whos dating who or what so and so looks like and is wearing...while you want to talk more about different subjects -

3- do other females like you or do they get bored of you because you lack interest in female topics or you cannot relate to how they feel ?
No. I think females are actually more diverse in their topic(s), lul. Most of my female friends are in STEM, legal, or whatever. There are a few that aren't. They are all educated women that can talk about "male topics" & then a few minute(s) later switch up & discuss all things female.

I do not understand the women that only 'talk about male things'. How so? Lul. Your only one hobby is fixing cars, screwing chicks & smelling like ass? Are you just not very social? The women I know are extremely adaptive - they just 'switch' the climate of discussion - but won't do it as a preference.

Unless you are an introvert, which is rare in Type 8, you should be able to guide, swing, blend and adapt in most conversation types without this "oh no talking about female things, what do?" Lol. All the 8's I know are adaptive. But anyway, I rather sit with a group of mingling intelligent women than "hangout with the guys", as the only chick.


4- do you find it hard to understand people because you lack an emotional perspective?
I don't do not really aim to "understand people & randoms" or be all buddy with people. Why does everyone 'need to understand' each other? I have a lot of emotional perspective, but I do not really care about 'understanding people'. I am alright knowing how people (as whole) tick & what works - whether it is adjusting to emotional response or just driving through it with whatever.

Maybe that is the ENTJ talking. Most people are upset because I usually keep 'missing the point..' when they are expressing themselves to me, lul. I am too practical sometimes, and started pissing one of my NFP friends off, as it was coming off as 'too practical and apathetic' for what she was looking for, so I had to adjust to her needs there.

I am more patient with people & "getting to understand & know them" .. when I either close to them or can extract some gain out of it towards something.

5- have you found intimacy easy or always need to be the one in control?

6- are lots of men attracted to you or do they see you as too hard?
No, I am crazy intimate & sexual. Most of the time I just do not want to commit to them.

They either latch onto me in some weird/clingy way or something other (usually NF types), enjoy me thoroughly with no problem, or "tolerate" me until we can't stand each other anymore.

The male(s) I am into are very dominant & I never feel like they are threatened by me in anyway - in spite of me being too challenging for most. Even more so when they put up a struggle, or "listen, woman" me. LUL.

As for control, I do have a controlling side, but it is mostly just my energy & not in any purposeful. There is no conscious "I want to be in control" kind of thinking. That just sounds bizarre. Sometimes I forget more passive people are even there, so I have to watch that. I felt bad a few times just inserting myself all up in stuff, "stepping in" immediately & sometimes speaking for them by mistake. I have to work on that, but am better. I do not have that reactive whatever response as much now.

I am very willing to adjust when people call me out on my bullshit or if I am being pushy/insensitive, lol.

7- is it easy for you to show people your softer emotions?
NO. I do not have any soft emotions unless I am in love. Either with a family member or S.O.

I do caring things for people, but it is nottt usually obvious/evident to them it's coming from a "soft" space.. Actually, most specimen(s) assume I do things out of selfishness most of the time.

Unless you mean just being happy & laughing and sociable. That is not really an emotion to me, lol. I express those fine.

8- do you find that you have been operating out of your seven wing just because its easier to be socially accepted? (if you have a seven wing)
No.
 

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1 - My best friend is a female, and I tend to get on well with girls who are venturous, funny and can care a banter. Not necessarily loud, but more like strong-minded. I always immediately find my voice with men tho.
2 - I get bored with typical "makeup" talks. I hate gossips (and afraid to be gossiped about haha). I like to talk about bigger ideas, and straight stuff. I just cannot give a fuck about whos dating who and these kind of stuffs. (I don't care at all about celebrities either)
3 - They tend to like me, but think of me as an outsider, which can be funny and interesting for them. Unless I find my tomboys yeee.
4 - Not at all. Moreover I understand people very well. I get their motives (not necessarily emotionally but the idea you know), and I actually think I am quite emphatetic. I don't calm them down but give them advices and catchy questions.
5 - OOoooo I found intimacy hard. I imagined it in a way to have control over it. And when I found good participants for it (friends, lovers...) I think I did pretty good (and intense). I like echange of dominance.
6 - Different man are attracted to me.There were the two poles of the spectrum. The incredibly shy but loving person, the agressively opressed and insecure one... They saw something about me that were lacking of themselves I think. Not a lot of men approach me, but I know for a fact that they see me as not typical.
7 - I still struggle with it sometimes but I think thats very human. My closest people know my softest and weakest side, but I feel frustrated if they don't show theirs after mine.
8 - I have a 9 wing.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
1 - do you have many female friends?

My close friendships are 50/50 females and males.

2- do you find female conversations interesting? do you find that women mostly talk about relational issues such as whos dating who or what so and so looks like and is wearing...while you want to talk more about different subjects

Sure, with the right females. Nope, my friends are business people.

3- do other females like you or do they get bored of you because you lack interest in female topics or you cannot relate to how they feel ?

The females that like me, like me. The ones that don't, don't. Most people aren't universally liked or disliked since females don't plug into a hive mind.

4- do you find it hard to understand people because you lack an emotional perspective?

Wat? Being an E8 =/= no emotions. You need to improve your understanding of enneagram, relative to 8s.

5- have you found intimacy easy or always need to be the one in control?

Intimacy is easy with the right person and non-existent with the wrong one. I don't understand how control factors into this.

6- are lots of men attracted to you or do they see you as too hard?

I haven't had problems dating, being approached or finding relationship partners my entire life.

7- is it easy for you to show people your softer emotions?

It's easy with the right people and not so easy with the wrong people.

8- do you find that you have been operating out of your seven wing just because its easier to be socially accepted? (if you have a seven wing)

Wat?

For answer 8 -do you have a 7 or a 9 wing? and for answer 4, E8 have emotions we just don't approach life through that lens first, therefore, it makes it harder to connect from that perspective. We aren't exactly known for being soft and cuddly lol or that approachable.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
1 -
3 - They tend to like me, but think of me as an outsider, which can be funny and interesting for them. Unless I find my tomboys yeee.

5 - OOoooo I found intimacy hard. I imagined it in a way to have control over it. And when I found good participants for it (friends, lovers...) I think I did pretty good (and intense). I like echange of dominance.
6 - Different man are attracted to me.There were the two poles of the spectrum. The incredibly shy but loving person, the agressively opressed and insecure one... They saw something about me that were lacking of themselves I think. Not a lot of men approach me, but I know for a fact that they see me as not typical.
7 - I still struggle with it sometimes but I think thats very human. My closest people know my softest and weakest side, but I feel frustrated if they don't show theirs after mine.
8 - I have a 9 wing.
Wow, this is excellent, you put it so perfectly, an outsider that people find interesting, love that. While they find me interesting, some also find me a threat, as i dont tend to follow norms so keeping social control tends to emerge... but thats a whole different topic. I can also appreciate "the exchange of dominance" amen sister. Also, "finding something in me that they were lacking in themselves" wow I can relate. I find too that some men just compete with me in a relationship when we both should be working in tandem, those dont last long. I prefer someone who respects my strong will and works with me not against me. It does go both ways though, but two people constantly power struggling is not beneficial for anyone. I think the bottom line to my original thread is that i need to find a herd that gets me, male or female, doesnt matter, just need to find a group that understands the way i am and one that is not easily intimidated. Thanks so much for you input! appreciate it
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I don't think gender is the right variable to pull from these experiences. I think these just aren't the friends for you. You aren't going to get along with any woman you find, as is the same for men or anyone else. You need to have common interests or passions or even hobbies. Do you have anything in common with them? Do you like them? Do they only talk about things you don't care for? Do you feel heard and fulfilled spending time with them? They sound like rather superficial friends because of this chasm in interests and ways of communicating. It's okay for people to care about and talk about their relationships. I don't want to suggest that it isn't, especially for women, as that tends to be a misogynistic line of thinking (devaluing things women care about is an age old practice). And I think it's emotionally healthy to share those types of things with people who have perspectives you value.

What do you like to talk about? How do you like to communicate? Get into specifics, and then from there, extrapolate out to what kind of friends you should be looking for. Figure out your goal first, and then head towards it and be selective. The female friends that I have talk about lots of interesting things. They are curious and intelligent and like to share their thoughts and theories, and that's why I'm friends with them. Your sample size is too small to be making grand statements like "female conversations" and "female topics".

I tend to find I like women who enjoy STEM fields (no matter their mtbi type) or technical things over women who are more interested in relationships (and there are loads of women who care little to none for their appearance). I have a male friend who's very relationship focused and I try to meet him there, but it's hard for me. And that's fine! Go find the women who like the topics that you do! This isn't a gender question so much as it is a question about interests and where to find friends that "get" you.

If you have trouble connecting to people on an emotional level, you have a couple options. Either do what I did, and study the concept and learn how to improve (because while you won't ever be on their level naturally, you can get much better), find friends who don't care that you can't meet them there and don't judge you for it and don't find you boring, or find friends that are just as emotionally constipated as you, so you can all suck together (a viable option!). It just depends on what you value, what you want to put time into, and what seems like it will lead to something that makes you content (or god forbid, happy). Realize that you have more agency in this predicament than you think.

My main advice would be to abstain from jumping to conclusions when you don't have enough data, and be careful about degrading women in your mind who care about those things just because you don't care about them, as that's an easy street to internalized misogyny.

(I'm an ENTJ)

edit: also my advice and assumptions are based on the fact that you have ENTJ listed as your type as well. This obviously won't work as well if that isn't your type.
Thanks for your response. I think you are right, i just havent found the right herd to run with, doesn't matter if its male or female. Ive always been a lone wolf, its only recently that i have decided i want people closer in my life, now I just have to figure out how to share a part of me that i keep so close. I am very good at keeping people at a distance, I use humor to avoid getting close and to keep people at bay. A lot of people know me, but dont know me at all because i have not allowed anyone to get close. To get to know whats really at the heart of me, who I am and where i struggle. Id burn in hell before i ever ask for help but thats not a healthy way to operate in life. I am now trying now to show my softer side which is difficult as i dont want to bear my throat so to speak. I find its expected that females should have a easier time showing these things but thats where i struggle. Other females find me lacking sensitivity because i just dont understand a softer perspective, and thats where i want to get better. That is something i just need to work on. I just hear what they say and think, why is this an issue, here is how you can get results you want. I don't understand the point in discussing emotions, and thats where i think its a repellent for some to get close to me. Anyways ive derailed from my post but I hope down the road i can look at this thread with the advice i got and start to see some changes for me. I have recently changed my social group so i look forward to this new chapter. Thanks for your input.
Side note - my post was to seek information not to degrade any sex
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Most salient points. Also to owner of this thread, consider CP6 as your type. You seem to lack of understanding on type 8
Negative, I know my type. Also, the person you quoted has a point, I think i just need to find people who can appreciate my big energy and be able to feel comfortable around it. Im not aggressive im just passionate.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Intimidating, scary, aggressive, strong, a bitch... you sound like a lovely person :D

Eh... we guys can always butt in :) What makes you say these qualities are shunned in women and praised in men? Such men are often called assholes, if they don't temper the assertiveness and boss around people, and 8 women can be admired.

I think I've only ever met a female 8 once... at least only one that I can reasonably safely say she was an 8 and you could sense a mutual respect between us. And this 8 was respected and appreciated by the people around her as the grown-up of the group.

Hahaha love your responses up top.
Yes i agree, when i meet another 8 i love it. You dont have to use any words theres just an understanding, also a level of mad respect. As a woman being near and 8 male puts me at ease, i feel very lady like around them because i feel safe, their big energy can over power my big energy and our minds view things the same way. :)))
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Still trying to figure out if I'm an 8w7 or 1w2 as I end up with both as my type when I take these tests.
1. No, I have no female friends.
2. I don't find female conversations interesting. I get tired of them because it seems to be all they can think and talk about.
3. Other females say I am "intimidating, scary, aggressive, strong, a bitch, controlling, negative / pessimistic, always gotta be right and do things my way". To name a few.
4. It seems I have been told I can be cold and unfeeling. Does that count? lol
5.intimacy is easy but I will have my independence or it is over. (Been in a relationship 15 years but we live separately).
6.A lot of men are attracted to me for my body. Insecure men find me a threat and get physically violent possibly because their masculinity is threatened.
7.As long as it is someone I trust, yes.
8.Not sure as I'm new to learning about the enneagram.
hahaha just the way you talk you sound like a beauty, i would be your friend :D i feel like my big energy wouldnt phase you. As for your type, I would go with 8w7 but your name for yourself is a bit 1. Take a longer test and make sure its legit. Ive done the really extensive ones and they are great becuase they really dig in and then you are sure. I have a 7 wing that is very strong so i couldn't figure it out for the life of me because i relate to both, however, in looking at the core and doing multiple test i always score 8w7. 863 tri type to be exact.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
ENFJ 8w7 so/sx 24years old female here.

1. Yes, countless female friends. I'm a social first btw. Male friends tend to find me attractive later on due to my personality, which bother me a lot.

2. I'm mostly interested in financial, business, philosophy and spiritual discussion but aside that, I can listen to other topics (regardless my interest and expertise) for an hour or two max.

3. They love and admire me but somewhat intimidated. I can relate with female fashion like handbag, branded make up etc I'm a female after all. Even if topics I'm not good at they would love to talk with me because I'm good listener regardless topic. Also I always suggest people the fun thing to do together so nope, they don't get bored with me.

4. It's easy to understand how they feel but not necessarily easy to share mutual feelings on the topic so I don't usually get into argument if I found that they're hurt, regardless the rationality behind their emotions. Also I find that it's a lot easier to spot somebody playing victim but somehow most women and men don't see that unless they're ENTP for some reason.

5. I tend to be very friendly, somewhat helpful and a good listener. These qualities are enough to bond intimacy with most people but I genuinely don't feel I'm too close to them as much as they do. As of control, I usually let others control but beneath it I know the fact I'm the one with the most influence in the group or place, so if anything happen I can give in/direct and they would listen to me.

6. 60% men are attracted to me romantically and 40% mutual rivalry or jealousy. As weird as this sounds, this 40% men often see me like I'm a man myself as if I was about to snatch their girlfriend and position (I can tho, no offence).

7. I wear emotions on my sleeve buddy, and it doesn't make me feel weak or vulnerable. Vulnerability comes from allowing people to have impact on me and as long I'm not giving this permission, regardless whatever emotions I genuinely expressing, I'm on the safe side.

8. I think it's more because I grown up with relatively healthy family and surrounding, as well as for being an ENFJ and social first.

I think what you need to understand about 8 females is they are eventually an individual raised up differently. There are many factors that shape their personality. Geographically, I would expect most 8 females in my area to be the loving and daring mama bear, making friends with other females and embrace femininity happily due to cultural and religion factor.
I love no 6. defs can relate. As for number 4 ,my emotions, i am working on that. I hear everyone elses feelings and issues but i think thats where the gap is, becuase i dont ever share mine unless you are my SO. I dont like to bear my throat, too private for that. Thanks for your response, when you say grow up differently, how do you figure? like whats expected from women based on where you live or? Also, i like what you pointed out in spotting people playing victims, i sniff that out very well too, im a natural bullshit detector lol ;)
 

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For answer 8 -do you have a 7 or a 9 wing? and for answer 4, E8 have emotions we just don't approach life through that lens first, therefore, it makes it harder to connect from that perspective. We aren't exactly known for being soft and cuddly lol or that approachable.
8w7. I don't pretend.
 

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not here to debate my type bud, hit the road. Read the OP and stick to the point or find a new forum.
Wat? My response was about me, not you, that I don't pretend to anything/operate out of my 7 wing. You asked if I had a 7 or 9 wing since you believed that 7 wings would behave as the below quote.

OP said:
8- do you find that you have been operating out of your seven wing just because its easier to be socially accepted? (if you have a seven wing)
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Wat? My response was about me, not you, that I don't pretend to anything/operate out of my 7 wing. You asked if I had a 7 or 9 wing since you believed that 7 wings would behave as the below quote.
Ah, my apologies, i had read that much differently. I found that using my 7 wing makes me approachable and funny but once people get to know my 8 side, they run. But like the other posts had mentioned, i just need to find people who understand me. Its amazing how long i have gone and not let anyone close to me. I am trying to change that so i was hoping to get some insight on how to relate, especially to women. I get lonely these days because i feel like no one knows the heart of me and i am hoping to show that more. It will be a battle for sure but its the only way my life will get fulfillment i think as my previous strategy has been fruitful for selfish pursuits but not so much relational. Im good at achieving goals and not so much bonding with others. All the hurt in my life shut me down pretty good so my stone wall is hard to climb. Not many people can affect me emotionally. Anyways, apologies again, thanks for your input. :)
 

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I had some questions for women 8s, This will help me figure out if its just me or if its an 8 thing.

1 - do you have many female friends?
2- do you find female conversations interesting? do you find that women mostly talk about relational issues such as whos dating who or what so and so looks like and is wearing...while you want to talk more about different subjects
3- do other females like you or do they get bored of you because you lack interest in female topics or you cannot relate to how they feel ?
4- do you find it hard to understand people because you lack an emotional perspective?
5- have you found intimacy easy or always need to be the one in control?
6- are lots of men attracted to you or do they see you as too hard?
7- is it easy for you to show people your softer emotions?
8- do you find that you have been operating out of your seven wing just because its easier to be socially accepted? (if you have a seven wing)

Thanks so much for your input!
I'm an INTJ 8w7.

1. The majority of my friends are female. (roughly 60-70%)
2. Yeah, why not? The topic doesn't matter particularly as long as the conversation itself is interesting. Also, if I learn something which I can use to improve myself, it's definitely not a waste of time.
3. Some people in general say the lack of vulnerability is a bit off putting, but it's not limited to one gender. My friends come to me to get a blunt and straightforward answer, or just to rant. They usually go to other people if they want someone to relate to how they feel. But, in general, it's a pretty positive bond.
4. I do. But it's not something I spend time worrying about. Just because I don't understand one aspect, doesn't mean I can't understand the big picture.
5. I find intimacy very difficult, because it usually requires emotional vulnerability. I prefer to let people know that just because I don't open up or I'm not soft doesn't mean I don't care about them. I just tend to show it through helping them or physical touch.
6. I do some modelling, so some people are interested in me due to that, but once they get to know me, they decide I'm too much for them or that I'm too masculine. I've had a few guys confess to me. They tended to be pretty sad though, so I said no. My current partner is an ESTP 8w7, and it's been going quite well so far.
7. No. Unless I'm pretending, but even then you can tell I'm not very 'soft'.
8. No, I do it because it's fun and probably a coping mechanism. Also because of the lifestyle I've lived, I've become accustomed to constant changes and seeking out fun, so honestly, it's strange for me not to use it.

Hope this helped!
 

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I know this post is a month old, but I'll help you out.

#1: Do you have female friends?
Not really. I don't have too many friends in general. The two I do have, I've known for years now, they're both men. All of my previous friends have been men.
I guess I have one girl friend, but we're not that close. Plus, we rarely can see each other, I think if we did, we might not stay friends for long.

#2: Do you find female conversations interesting?
As in having a conversation with a woman about stereotypically female things? No, not really. My partner's mother is prone to gossiping, which I deal with because I have no reason to start a problem with her. I'll listen, but if she tries to turn something with zero evidence into something legitimate, I let her know she's doing it.

#3: Do other females like you or get bored of you?
I can't recall anyone confronting me over it, so I guess this is conjecture I guess. I can barely remember any instances of having good experiences around women. I'll describe the one that happened most recently.
This was last year. I have a partner, who I've been with for a few years now. He has several brothers, and at the time this happened, one of them had just gotten into a relationship with a girl I'll call Sarah.
We only met a few times. Every month or so, my partner and I would go over to his mother's house to just hang out with her and his brothers. So, he brings Sarah, cool.
The first few times we met, I wasn't showering her with hugs and love, but I was nice to her, talked to her about casual things. Neutral experiences.
After a while, her feelings towards me became clear. She just had a problem with me, and I have no idea why. Look, I'm not the best person, but I didn't do anything to her personally. Eventually, she did the same thing to my partner's mom. And then again with another brother's girlfriend, which makes even less sense because they're like 16 and both nice.
She seemed to resent me but I don't know why.

#4: Do you find it hard to understand people because you lack an emotional perspective?
Yeah. One of two things can happen. One is that I just don't understand or care to, this happens a lot when people display a ton of emotion (crying specifically) along with illogical thinking, all at once.
Or, I do understand, but I just don't really care.

#5: Is intimacy easy?
As in being close to someone, or sexually?
Because I do stay distant from people unless I'm very close to them. I naturally fall into a more dominant position.

#6: Are lots of men attracted to you or do they see you as too hard?
I don't really know if a lot of men are attracted to me. I get plenty of creeps, but a good portion of them seem to get upset when they see my personality.

#7: Is it easy for you to show people your softer emotions?
No. I have a hard time sharing them, even with people I'm close to. I would never want to have a display of emotion in public either, like crying. It makes me feel so weak, stupid, and vulnerable, even when I'm alone.

#8: Do you find that you have been operating out of your seven wing just because its easier to be socially accepted?
No. I don't care about acceptance. I know some people are in situations where they have to care about that, but fortunately, I'm not.


I hope this helps!
 
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