[EmmaGilbert]

I have a really good INTJ friend that I've known for quite a while. I love his sense of humor, I value his knowledge and his input/outlook on life, we share the same beliefs, I like his little quirks that make him... him, but... he's an INTJ. Not that I don't like INTJs, I do. But I'm pretty sure they don't feel the same way about ESTJs. And I wanted to know what other INTJs have to say. He has said before that he was never interested in me ("At all." to quote him. he did apologize afterwards and say he realized how harsh that could sound after he said it...) and has led me to believe through some comments that I am not his type and never will be. For example, he told me something about a family member of his that really annoys him. I said something to the effect of "um, that sounds like me." to which he responded (I am paraphrasing) "I know. I just avoid those topics that would bring that up so we don't have a problem." In fact, he sometimes comes to me for relationship advice. I'm just wondering, should I give up on this idea?

 

[EmmaGilbert]

Well, see he didn't specifically say still not. This was a while back and even back then he was talking in past tense, like about when we met. I dunno. Maybe you're right and I should just forget about it.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

@Figure I completely understand what you mean about detailed descriptions vs hunches. That's one problem we have. Not that it has been a serious problem up to this point, but we're only friends, so...
The coming across as shortsighted has me slightly concerned. As an ESTJ, I am very particular and I will put a lot of effort into my plans or whatever, and I need to know that that effort is appreciated and not written off as being unnecessary or short-sighted. Does that make sense? He does also often come across as arrogant, but that isn't really something that bothers me. much. It only does to the point where it often makes me feel inferior intellectually. I am aware he is incredibly intelligent, and I like that, but it makes me feel like I have don't really have anything intelligent to offer to any conversation we have. I was wondering if ESTJs seem like that to INTJs in general. So it is comforting to hear you think it is easy to talk where interests overlap and not that it is completely one-sided or anything.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

@bluekitdon And what would be a way to definitively find out if there is hope?

 

[EmmaGilbert]

If he had any other kind of feelings for you, you'd probably know it by now.

Are INTJs really that open about it?

I would avoid trying to force this friendship into being something it's not meant to, whether in reality or fantasy.

I have been. I mean, trying not to force it. At least in reality. I am keeping things strictly platonic. Perhaps I should work on not trying to make it work in my fantasy as well.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

For an example, I used to help my ESTJ roommate study for exams back in undergrad. He'd make notecards, re-write notes, and memorize them by repeating over and over. To me, that seems like a colossal waste of time because it's easier to just learn the underlying concept and intuitively apply it.

That sounds like me and my N friends. I don't understand how they do it. I would rather just memorize everything.

Bingo I get accused of that all the time, and again, it's not intentional at all. Things improve when both the ESTJ and INTJ realize that neither is intellectually inferior or superior, it's just a different way of going about things.

That might be slightly difficult. I thought arrogance over their intelligence was a trait common to INTJs. I doubt he'll change that any time soon. And honestly, I would find it difficult not to think of him as intellectually superior. All his friends know he is a genius.

We're both T's (and prefer Te, if you're familiar with the cognitive functions - we like facts, data, objectiveness) so our ways make sense to each other in one way, but the N and S difference makes it less familiar to both in another way.

I have started recently (and by recently I mean maybe 24-48 hours ago) going through the cognitive functions and trying to learn about them. After he mentioned Fi in a conversation to me and I realized I really had no idea what he was talking about. So I'm still learning, but yes, I do know what they are.

I'm not sure if he really thinks this, maybe you can confirm as an ESTJ befriending an INTJ, but I get the sense he's always paranoid for me to nitpick something random he says or does.

Well, I'm not sure I can speak for all ESTJs, but yes. I do tend to think that when I'm talking to him.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

We're not particularly open emotionally, but neither do we needlessly quell or obscure our feelings. We're not that dumb when it comes to emotions.

I wasn't trying to say you were dumb when it comes to emotions. lol. Just not usually as expressive, in my experience.

The fact that he's comfortable talking about other women with you is a strong indicator of where you stand. Think about it this way: romance is already a topic he's explored with you. If he had feelings for you, he's already had many opportunities to express them. The likelihood that he's harboring a secret crush on you becomes exponentially smaller with every romance-related conversation you have.

Helpful to know, though it's not exactly what I wanted to hear. I wasn't exactly wondering if he was "harboring a secret crush" as much as if it could ever work, in general. I'm sure he doesn't see me that way now, but I wasn't ruling out the possibility of it in the future.

Once I've solidly made up my mind about someone (and I try to do so only after getting enough info), I'm not likely to change it.

...Which I see you just did. lol. To be honest, I had tried not even considering the whole thing myself after he told me he had never been interested in me and would talk to me about other girls he was interested in. And at first it was strictly platonic on my end, as well. I don't really know what happened.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

@Snapple He is single. I'm not the home-wrecker type. Or... boyfriend-stealing type or whatever. Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that will help in our situation.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

As far as your particular situation is concerned - how old is he and how long ago did he make the "At all" comment?

He's about a year older than I am. 21. And that would have been several months ago. Maybe 4 months? It feels like it's been longer. =P And as mentioned earlier, when he said that, he was referring to when we started talking/becoming friends, which would have been about 8 months ago, even though we've technically known each other a year now. Yeah, doesn't sound like that long, I know.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

So if you want a relationship with him, you're going to have to get him to shift his label of you in his head, because right now you are "friend only".

I was going to ask how you suggest doing that, but I see you already answered that. I know this is the oldest excuse in the book, but I'm really afraid of it hurting our friendship if he doesn't see it the same way. Which, I'm almost positive he doesn't at this point. Is there any way I could open his eyes/mind to the possibility without "throwing myself on him"? I definitely believe in honesty and telling the other person what you're feeling, but I don't believe in stupidity; and at this point, I feel it would be stupid for me to just randomly drop that on him and say, "Hi so I actually kind of really like you as more than a friend."

Also, that he confides in you about relationships and feelings, and all of that, I would say you are pretty important to him as a friend and that there is already a basis of trust there, so the leap to relationship with you as opposed to some stranger is going to be smaller.

Yes and no. One would tend to think so, but he has asked at least three girls he barely knew out since I have known him (that's the kind of relationship advice he's asked me about) and none of them end well, which makes me hurt for him. Every time that happens he beats himself up about it and I wish there were something I could do or say, but I'm not really good at knowing what to say in these situations..

If I was you i'd be direct with him and say "hey, I like you - and see potential here, because of x, y, z reason". Let him respond, and take it from there.

I mostly already responded to this earlier. And trust me, there is nothing I would rather do than this. But... I think it would come as a shock to him and he wouldn't respond the same way and it would just be awkward.

 

[EmmaGilbert]

@Fallen Empire
That is pretty much the most solid advice I have gotten yet. Thank you.