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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not taking MBTI types, order of of dominance, or if I'm an extrovert or introvert, or judger or preceiver into consideration, I went through the 8 cognitive processes. Starting with Ne or Ni, I carefully read each description and the differences, then chose which (e or i ) for each one fits me best. I went through each Se or Si, Te or Ti, Fe or Fi, and after reading the descriptions of each I've determined I have a preference for Ne Si Ti Fi but not necessarily in that order (not that far yet).
My question is, am I starting this process correctly? The process of understanding my cognitive process, without taking a test, and without comparing them to "types". I've given up on MBTI types, I don't have one. My cognitive process (when I figure it out) will align with one no doubt, but I do not fit any type more than another.
Also, is the next step deciding if I'm an introvert or extrovert, and then either a judger or perceiver?
How do I decide what functions are dominant? Or did I already figure that out by narrowing it to 4?
So then what function goes first?
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
One more thing. I'm pretty sure I'm right about Ne, Ti and Fi, but I'm having a hard time deciding between Si or Se. I do Se A LOT, but I think it's because I want to/ like to but maybe it's not my default, I'm honestly not sure.

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Seriously? Is this a real question, or your attempt at rhetorical humor?
The latter. However in this reply I may as well attempt to be serious.

Develop or possession of functions don't really directly equate to type.

Type is a preference for function use.

Your strongest functions may be outside of your type's main four functions, however the function order of your type tends to speak of how you deal with things like information, imagination, values, thinking through things and whatnot when you revert to what you are most comfortable with.

Let me re-explain.

If a test says someone has strong Ne and Ni, perhaps they do. But that information doesn't directly relate to what type they have. It however is a good suggestion for developed functions, and thus suggests functions that have been practiced more than not.

If that helps explain my position on the matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The latter. However in this reply I may as well attempt to be serious.

Develop or possession of functions don't really directly equate to type.

Type is a preference for function use.

Your strongest functions may be outside of your type's main four functions, however the function order of your type tends to speak of how you deal with things like information, imagination, values, thinking through things and whatnot when you revert to what you are most comfortable with.

Let me re-explain.

If a test says someone has strong Ne and Ni, perhaps they do. But that information doesn't directly relate to what type they have. It however is a good suggestion for developed functions, and thus suggests functions that have been practiced more than not.

If that helps explain my position on the matter.
Maybe you miss read my original post. I stated I wanted to figure out my cognitive process without taking a test, because as the person below me stated "tests suck ass".

I know I'm an Ne as opposed to Ni but how do I know if this function is dominant, auxiliary, tertiary, or inferior? It is this reason I care at all about my mbti type: knowing one will give me the other.

That being said there are no mbti types that have the 4 main functions Ne Si Ti Fi in any sort of order. So, I'm either doing something wrong when assessing my preferences (without the help of a test) or I'm just an exception to the rule. That's all I'm trying to figure out.


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I know I'm an Ne as opposed to Ni
You are not an Ne, nor are you a Ni, nor are you any function if you are a human.

but how do I know if this function is dominant, auxiliary, tertiary, or inferior?
Why not go about it the other way? Understand what a dominant function IS, rather than start with the function and ask if it is dominant or not?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You are not an Ne, nor are you a Ni, nor are you any function if you are a human.

Oh, my mistake, even though you understand perfectly well what I'm talking about, I'll rephrase that statement so the grammar police does not arrest me.

I know my intuition is extroverted as opposed to introverted...

Why is this grey?


Why not go about it the other way? Understand what a dominant function IS, rather than start with the function and ask if it is dominant or not?
Finally, some good advice. I will try this. Thank you.



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Dom tert loops are a good detection method sometimes.
Makes it real clear if you are an extro or intro of the set your onto.
Ne/Fe loops make it hard to stop relating to objects and embrace a subjective view.
Si/Ti loops make it hard to stop experiencing the inner world and embrace an objective view.

Other than that your aversion towards the inverse of the dom is a real good clue too.
Ne can't stand Se
Fe can't stand Te
etc etc
 

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Dom tert loops are a good detection method sometimes.
Makes it real clear if you are an extro or intro of the set your onto.
Ne/Fe loops make it hard to stop relating to objects and embrace a subjective view.
Si/Ti loops make it hard to stop experiencing the inner world and embrace an objective view.

Other than that your aversion towards the inverse of the dom is a real good clue too.
Ne can't stand Se
Fe can't stand Te
etc etc
actually, it's different.

Te conflicts with Fi

Extroverted thinking applies efficiency with cruel "working solution for majority and treating any opposition as hostile force" logic, while Introverted feeling does not care about efficiency, but rather about how to reach to a best compromise amongst different forces. Fi sees Te as a cruel logic that "builds highways right through people's homes", while Te sees Fi as being naive and not able achieve anything progressive.

Ti conflicts with Fe

Introverted thinking means analysing every detail of the situation and constantly scanning the statements and systems for logical consistency, while Extroverted feeling puts emphasis on being able to adapt to any situation. Fe sees Ti as a major buzzkiller, needless nitpicking and "acting like a grammar nazi", the Ti sees Fe as being shallow, ignoring the truth and "having a party in middle of the plague".

Ne conflicts with Si

Extroverted intuition means constantly generating a list of possibilities and scanning the environment for any opportunities in the present, while Introverted sensing means scanning the environment for any reference points which gives them idea of what is the nature of this environment and what can be done within the confines of it, when they discover certain references of something. Ne sees Si as being redundant, stuck in a rut, not innovative enough, slow and not being able to handle new situations, while Si sees Ne as unpractical, childish, wasting too much energy and resources on hassling around producing nothing worthwhile.

Ni conflicts with Se

Introverted intuition means looking into the depth of things, searching for the meaning and trying to accomplish tasks and goals by acting out on "translating the abstract into tangible and real", while Se is primarly attempting to gain as much information from environment as is possible to obtain, using the all 5 senses, and ignoring any factors that are not readily apparent. Se sees Ni as mysterious, weird, "trying to play god" and fooling themselves and others by irrational fantasies, while Ni sees Se as extreme and mindless shallowness, acting without thinking, animalistic and backwards.

________________

On the topic, no-one can have three introverted functions at once, and certainly no-one can't type themselves based on descriptions. I highly suggest taking at least 3 tests with 25+ questions each and see which type you will be offered, based on MBTI, then research your type for cognitive functions, and analyse how they apply to you.

It's quite impossible to be like "hey I use Se a lot, because I like decorating interior, and I use Si too quite a lot, because I learn from experience". There is always a set of 4 cognitive functions you use consciously, followed by 4 functions you have no access to consciously. Cognitive functions theory is tied to Socionics and MBTI, it can't be applied to a full extent when taken separately.

Please heed this advice and take a couple of tests!
 

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actually, it's different.

Te conflicts with Fi

Extroverted thinking applies efficiency with cruel "working solution for majority and treating any opposition as hostile force" logic, while Introverted feeling does not care about efficiency, but rather about how to reach to a best compromise amongst different forces. Fi sees Te as a cruel logic that "builds highways right through people's homes", while Te sees Fi as being naive and not able achieve anything progressive.

Ti conflicts with Fe

Introverted thinking means analysing every detail of the situation and constantly scanning the statements and systems for logical consistency, while Extroverted feeling puts emphasis on being able to adapt to any situation. Fe sees Ti as a major buzzkiller, needless nitpicking and "acting like a grammar nazi", the Ti sees Fe as being shallow, ignoring the truth and "having a party in middle of the plague".

Ne conflicts with Si

Extroverted intuition means constantly generating a list of possibilities and scanning the environment for any opportunities in the present, while Introverted sensing means scanning the environment for any reference points which gives them idea of what is the nature of this environment and what can be done within the confines of it, when they discover certain references of something. Ne sees Si as being redundant, stuck in a rut, not innovative enough, slow and not being able to handle new situations, while Si sees Ne as unpractical, childish, wasting too much energy and resources on hassling around producing nothing worthwhile.

Ni conflicts with Se

Introverted intuition means looking into the depth of things, searching for the meaning and trying to accomplish tasks and goals by acting out on "translating the abstract into tangible and real", while Se is primarly attempting to gain as much information from environment as is possible to obtain, using the all 5 senses, and ignoring any factors that are not readily apparent. Se sees Ni as mysterious, weird, "trying to play god" and fooling themselves and others by irrational fantasies, while Ni sees Se as extreme and mindless shallowness, acting without thinking, animalistic and backwards.

________________

On the topic, no-one can have three introverted functions at once, and certainly no-one can't type themselves based on descriptions. I highly suggest taking at least 3 tests with 25+ questions each and see which type you will be offered, based on MBTI, then research your type for cognitive functions, and analyse how they apply to you.

It's quite impossible to be like "hey I use Se a lot, because I like decorating interior, and I use Si too quite a lot, because I learn from experience". There is always a set of 4 cognitive functions you use consciously, followed by 4 functions you have no access to consciously. Cognitive functions theory is tied to Socionics and MBTI, it can't be applied to a full extent when taken separately.

Please heed this advice and take a couple of tests!
LOL...
Yeah lets go bore ourself to tears with basics.
Yeah sure they are polar opposites.
And there are much tension and feelings of inferiority involved.
I'm talking about how we react when we encounter our shadow in others.
You can tell a lot about a person from how they react to types who are different from them.
You misunderstanding of what I'm talking about is on the scale of epic.

I'll be nice for a change and give you a chance to catch up on the model used.
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...volving-eight-functions-type-beebe-model.html
 

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LOL...
Yeah lets go bore ourself to tears with basics.
Yeah sure they are polar opposites.
And there are much tension and feelings of inferiority involved.
I'm talking about how we react when we encounter our shadow in others.
You can tell a lot about a person from how they react to types who are different from them.
You misunderstanding of what I'm talking about is on the scale of epic.

I'll be nice for a change and give you a chance to catch up on the model used.
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...volving-eight-functions-type-beebe-model.html
Okay, now I understand what you were talking about, but you didn't refer what exactly were you
talking about when saying "Ne can't stand Se" etc.

Sure I am willing to bore people to tears with basics, because we all need to be on the same page.

It's entirely one thing to state "I scored the best at Se, and second best at Si", and another thing to
state "I scored the best at Se, and second best at Si, what does it make my MBTI?"
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
LOL...
Yeah lets go bore ourself to tears with basics.
Yeah sure they are polar opposites.
And there are much tension and feelings of inferiority involved.
I'm talking about how we react when we encounter our shadow in others.
You can tell a lot about a person from how they react to types who are different from them.
You misunderstanding of what I'm talking about is on the scale of epic.

I'll be nice for a change and give you a chance to catch up on the model used.
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...volving-eight-functions-type-beebe-model.html
I read all of that article, I understood about 25%, given I only read through it once and as soon as it went way over my head I skimmed that particular part.
From what I could understand it makes since. it helps to explain why I'm tending towards functions that may contradict each other. I obviously have some sort of complex, but which one? Why? Is it unhealthy, how unhealthy? How do I overcome it? Do I need to overcome it?
I am now more unsure about the roll of the 8 functions and how they pertain to my personality. (Did I say that correctly? I'm very new to this so please bare with me) I don't even know where to start to figure it out.
It does bother me that I am operating somewhat in functions that are not...natural (is that the correct word?) I have a few theories on why this is:
Here's one -I met my husband at 15, had a baby and married him at 17. I'm now 26, and we have 3 kids and are happily married. We have our problems of course, but I would honestly rate our marriage above average in all categories. But, he is a very very strong ESTP, and I believe some aspects of my personality (while not fully developed because I was 15) started to mirror his. My theory is that I developed my inferior and shadow functions (which would have been his dom functions, Se and Ti) before my own dominant functions had a chance to mature naturally. Now I'm not sure how much of his personality has influenced my own. And how could I tell? I feel as if I'm being true to who I am, but I am VERY different now than the person I was when I was 7, 8, 9 years old (old enough to have a distinguished personality, but before the onset of puberty and the crazy hormones that comes with it). I'm sure that's somewhat normal-to be different as an adult than you were as a child, but I'm very different. Am I living in a partial alter-egoed state? How does one know? What should I do about it, if anything?
Jeez, now I feel like I need professional help or something.
 

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Heretic
5w4 9w8 2w1 Sx/Sp INTJ ESI
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Okay, now I understand what you were talking about, but you didn't refer what exactly were you
talking about when saying "Ne can't stand Se" etc.

Sure I am willing to bore people to tears with basics, because we all need to be on the same page.
Yeah the curse of Ni.
You take it for granted that everyone else will follow your subjective intuitive tangents,
as long as you throw them a couple of landmarks.
It is like saying A,B,Y,Z and expecting everyone to substitute the alfabeth.

It's entirely one thing to state "I scored the best at Se, and second best at Si", and another thing to
state "I scored the best at Se, and second best at Si, what does it make my MBTI?"
As for scores, I don't have much faith in server side script calculations,
telling me much about my orientation in the world.
 

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Heretic
5w4 9w8 2w1 Sx/Sp INTJ ESI
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I read all of that article, I understood about 25%, given I only read through it once and as soon as it went way over my head I skimmed that particular part.
From what I could understand it makes since. it helps to explain why I'm tending towards functions that may contradict each other. I obviously have some sort of complex, but which one? Why? Is it unhealthy, how unhealthy? How do I overcome it? Do I need to overcome it?
I am now more unsure about the roll of the 8 functions and how they pertain to my personality. (Did I say that correctly? I'm very new to this so please bare with me) I don't even know where to start to figure it out.
It does bother me that I am operating somewhat in functions that are not...natural (is that the correct word?) I have a few theories on why this is:
Here's one -I met my husband at 15, had a baby and married him at 17. I'm now 26, and we have 3 kids and are happily married. We have our problems of course, but I would honestly rate our marriage above average in all categories. But, he is a very very strong ESTP, and I believe some aspects of my personality (while not fully developed because I was 15) started to mirror his. My theory is that I developed my inferior and shadow functions (which would have been his dom functions, Se and Ti) before my own dominant functions had a chance to mature naturally. Now I'm not sure how much of his personality has influenced my own. And how could I tell? I feel as if I'm being true to who I am, but I am VERY different now than the person I was when I was 7, 8, 9 years old (old enough to have a distinguished personality, but before the onset of puberty and the crazy hormones that comes with it). I'm sure that's somewhat normal-to be different as an adult than you were as a child, but I'm very different. Am I living in a partial alter-egoed state? How does one know? What should I do about it, if anything?
Jeez, now I feel like I need professional help or something.
It is a heavy article, so good job.
When it comes to this stuff no one is really healthy.
MBTI are 16 idealized balance points, in fact we are all playing at the far end of some extreme.
As far as I'm concerned you can't really be thrown off your dom function.
You can run to the other extreme in other words Ne can run to Si and Ti to Fe.
This flip is refered to as a grip episode and they happen every time we are under great stress.
When the stress passes we return to the dom.
When dealing with other people manifesting some aspect of your shadow you will get drained at some level.
But it won't change your function orientation since as soon as the influence go away you return to origin.
So say you are an ENTP.
Then you would seek shelter in Si whenerver things got hard, and forget about Ti to the benefit of Fe.
But when you got back to normal Ne would emerge again.
Ti might or might not get back into the forefront as Fe often conspire to keep ENTPs in a
Ne/Fe constant object relation with only marginal connection with the inner view of Ti.
Or for an INTP it would be a Ti/Si inner withdrawal from the world in favor of an inner untainted experience.
With Ne only marginally letting light shine in from outside.
You are probably better off listening to @KraChZiMan as he seem to be more geared toward the basics right now.
He wants you to swim in a nice lagune, while I'm throwing you into the ocean in a hurricane.
Sink or swim might become a professional issue yeah.

But I think you will be fine. Just realize that Jungian theory has many different models.
Like say martial art has styles. You can subscribe to one or you can mix it up.
Mixing it up demands more dedication and understanding than say being spoonfed "Karate".
When you know how to do XYZ we will give you a pretty coloured belt. =D
 

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Not taking MBTI types, order of of dominance, or if I'm an extrovert or introvert, or judger or preceiver into consideration, I went through the 8 cognitive processes. Starting with Ne or Ni, I carefully read each description and the differences, then chose which (e or i ) for each one fits me best. I went through each Se or Si, Te or Ti, Fe or Fi, and after reading the descriptions of each I've determined I have a preference for Ne Si Ti Fi but not necessarily in that order (not that far yet).
My question is, am I starting this process correctly?...
Hello KarenMarie,

(I wonder if you're still checking this post/thread)

What you've written here should possibly give you some insight into your preferences; if you aren't Nx versus Sx, then you have a very well developed since of Nx (*). The reason that I say this... Perception based on Sx, it seems to me, tends to be more (or perhaps, it's more accurate to say it 'favors') procedural and sequential. An individual that favors Sx, would likely be much more apt to follow the steps of formally designed procedure or test for determining type. Basically, you tried the test, found the results ambiguous (or perhaps, not descriptive), and so you sort of jumped into the middle of the concept of the Cognitive Processes, and started playing with the pieces to see if you couldn't reverse-engineer your type that way (by generally accepted standards, that's "a way", but not "the right way").

(You may not necessarily favor Ni over Ne, but I think this demonstrates you have a reasonable command of Ni; conceptual manipulation "in your head")

As you were doing this, you asked: "My question is, am I starting this process correctly?". Of course you aren't! When you really think about that question, the answer is obvious... I think an individual favoring Sx would be very much aware he or she "is not doing it right", and would be unlikely to have posted that question.

This is not to say an individual favoring Sx can't experiment or theorize about Jungian/MBTI... However, it seems an individual favoring Sx would likely need to have more background in Typology to start such an undertaking, and would likely have a more linear methodology, based on a data set he or she had, and perhaps a direction suggested by some previous research.

(* - If you aren't familiar with the notion of using Nx, it simply is used to indicate "Intuition {N only: not Ne, or Ni} without Extraversion or Introversion specified" [at least, for the moment, or the purpose of this example])
 
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