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Can I get some safe distance or must I just walk away?

7K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  slowriot 
#1 · (Edited)
NOTE: I posted this on the INTP forum but many there suggested my friend may indeed be an INTJ. Based on what I've read of each type, he certainly does seem to have more J traits such as being a detailist, and is obsessed with strategy. There are many more traits but for the sake of time I'll not post the laundry list.

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ETA: This person and I were friends for about a year before it became physical.


I'm an ENFX and good friends with an INTJ . We have sex on a regular basis, and go out on dates. I consider him to be a close friend however we've now had enough disagreements that I've wanted to cut him out of my life. I have such a strong reaction because a) I care for him, b) I enjoy our relationship when it is good but c) no matter how much we work on trying to understand each other I still feel resentment because I've noticed I've begun to censor myself. I feel like I must chose the friendship or express my point of view (which he doesn't always take seriously and his biting remarks only fuel my growing fear that he'll finally deliver a verbal blow that will hurt me too much to continue any kind of relationship with him).

Is he trying to drive me away? Has he decided I protest too much and is waiting for me to just give up?

If the above is not true then I know I must create some distance. If I tell him that his ways are making me want to leave despite the fact that to him he has tried hard to communicate and show he cares for me I know he'll just close up and show me the door.

If you were him, would you prefer that I quietly spend less time with you and therefore (hopefully) the drama would be reduced or would you rather I said what I explained in the first paragraph and then show myself to the door?
 
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#2 ·
hmm.. I know I am not INTP and you asked for INTP advice, but may I ask you more questions before I give you my 2cents?

You call each friends? - have sex (ok) talk about the future (care to elaborate?) - what other things do you do other than having sex?

Is your only problem with him about his snarky remarks? does he talk that way to everyone? do you notice his general attitude?

Have you tried calling him an ass?

Define drama?
 
#3 ·
Firstly allow me to say that I wish I had friends like you (female ones preferably). Answering your question however is somewhat tricky seeing as you did not tell us what type you are, I infer from what you wrote you might be an ISFP or ESFP though I kind of suck at categorising people. This would of course mean that the two of you are very different ergo some sort of misunderstanding is to be expected.

If you are having frequent arguments this could be due to several things. Has he told you he needs some time alone? If so, if he does, it's critical you do give him some time alone. Not just a few hours but maybe a day or two or even more. If you try to force this period he's more likely to get annoyed further. We intp's need a lot of alone time ^^ So you have to be willing to give us some.

Having said that I see no reason for him to intentionally hurt your feelings. It's most likely due to his rational thinking that makes him say things that hurt you, but I don't think he does it intentionally. It happens to me from time to time as well. On the other side he most likely doesn't know how to react to argument that stem from emotions and feelings so you might want to keep that in mind.

That's pretty much the advice I can give you with the information you've given me, if you can elaborate further maybe we can help you more.
 
#5 ·
NYX said:
hmm.. I know I am not INTP and you asked for INTP advice, but may I ask you more questions before I give you my 2cents?

You call each friends? - have sex (ok)
We are probably too early in the physical relationship to define it as more. I'd probably refer to it as "dating."

talk about the future (care to elaborate?) - what other things do you do other than having sex?
We don't talk about the future. It's very much in the present, which I like.

Is your only problem with him about his snarky remarks?
It's a matter of degree. What he considers normal discourse I take as an attack or as a disrespectful way of treating me which I cannot forget. And I've tried.

does he talk that way to everyone? do you notice his general attitude?
I have not seen how he treats others he considers good friends, just acquaintances. I know he has tried as much as he can to treat me well if he has agreed with my argument as to why I don't want to be talked to in such a way but it is on a case by case basis.

Have you tried calling him an ass?
:wink: I've said, "I don't like that. Here's why..." If he senses any sort of personal attack he ends the conversation.

Define drama?
The arguments cause me pain and now sorrow.

Daemos said:
Firstly allow me to say that I wish I had friends like you (female ones preferably).
:wink:

Answering your question however is somewhat tricky seeing as you did not tell us what type you are, I infer from what you wrote you might be an ISFP or ESFP though I kind of suck at categorising people. This would of course mean that the two of you are very different ergo some sort of misunderstanding is to be expected.
I'm not really sure of what I am but I'm probably one of the ENFx types but not only do I test about 49%/51% on all four traits, I relate quite strongly to intoverts. My best relationships are with Is. Most Es leave me feeling a bit empty. (If that helps you any.)

If you are having frequent arguments this could be due to several things. Has he told you he needs some time alone? If so, if he does, it's critical you do give him some time alone. Not just a few hours but maybe a day or two or even more. If you try to force this period he's more likely to get annoyed further. We intp's need a lot of alone time ^^ So you have to be willing to give us some.
That has never been the issue although I'm sure the way of expressing these needs may be a source of contention. I definitely need time alone to recharge and process but I know I am aware that I'll have that need and plan accordingly. He on the other hand will be irritable and vicious and then I have to realize he needs some time alone. This happens after I've already incurred a few wounds so I'm left feeling hurt and offended and also angry that he wasted my time when he could instead try being more self-aware.

He OD's on me. He will spend 48 or 72 hours straight with me and barely wants me out of his sight. This is part of the problem because I get too comfortable with his warm, caring side and then the other side comes out and I get hurt because I allowed myself to be so vulnerable.

Having said that I see no reason for him to intentionally hurt your feelings. It's most likely due to his rational thinking that makes him say things that hurt you, but I don't think he does it intentionally. It happens to me from time to time as well.
He doesn't try to hurt me but even with his attempts I'm afraid we can't meet each other in the middle. I feel like I'm doing all the work. I do not know if he'll reply warmly and be supportive or if he'll treat me like an acquaintance he just met on the bus.

On the other side he most likely doesn't know how to react to argument that stem from emotions and feelings so you might want to keep that in mind.
It's this that is the problem, I suspect. Being a translator is exhausting and it's only rewarding if he's engaged. At times he seems tired of what he probably perceives as criticism from me and will use argument as a way to play the smoke in mirrors game.

if you can elaborate further maybe we can help you more.
This thread on "What pisses you off about INTPs?" sums up some of my recent experiences. Here are the comments that describe my darkest experiences and make even me afraid:

NOTE: Snail, I know you modified your post but I'm referencing what you first wrote because it rings too many bells to ignore.

Snail said:
..I don't like how their desire not to be censored can make them cruel and emotionally dangerous. They care more about being free to act like jerks than about being sensitive to the needs of others.
They tend to succumb easily to intellectual arrogance and are impossible to argue with because they are frequently dismissive and closed-minded, accepting only certain kinds of information as valid regardless of the nature of the topic...
They are much too detail oriented, focusing on specifics when the general concept is actually more important, and will spend more time picking at and criticizing any imperfect details in an example or analogy than trying to understand the overall meaning of the broader expression. This leads to many arguments on linguistics that never get past the point of trying to define terms in a tedious, meticulous way, even if the original point being argued had nothing to do with how words are used and was supposed to be about something more interesting and important.
..This means that eventually I will give up trying to please an INTP, and instead of breaking myself to pieces struggling for approval, I eventually learn to just avoid the person. With an INTP, I never end up with a sufficient level of security to feel safe being open and intimate about ideas and feelings, so any conversation is pointless... if I will ever be able to trust one not to hurt me, even if they don't always do it on


[B said:
WordHerder[/b]]
It's a HORRIBLE mismatch - at a very basic level. One that I've decided to avoid, having no wish to harm anyone that way (or me, for that matter). So please, by all means, do keep yourself emotionally safe.
SnowQueen said:
I agree, this is exactly what I think now too. I know I have really hurt people - it's unintentional but I feel I need to take responsibility for it now - and part of that is by being honest about my needs and temperament. At the moment I feel I can't be trusted at all in relationships - partly because I don't want to hurt others, but also because it's become increasingly damaging to myself.
My friend is remarkably sensitive to criticism (given how much he doles out) which is why I'm exploring the distance option instead of just telling him how I see the big picture. He would try to argue with me over the points and then turn it around so that he was rejecting me due to some trumped up charge. I care for him but know I probably need more than he can give. If I stick around I'll grow to hate him which would be a waste of a good friendship.
 
#6 ·
hmm so are you dating or friends? are you two exclusive? Does he know and is OK with you calling him *friends*?

are all his retaliations linked to you attacking him? or does the jerk in him spawn spontaneously?

Has he called you overbearing? Might he be spending those 48 hours with you because he thinks it's what you want?
 
#8 ·
hmm so are you dating or friends? are you two exclusive? Does he know and is OK with you calling him *friends*?
He got irritated with me when I asked what it had become and shut down. Since I'm quite unsure about what I can handle, I'm refraining from labeling it. I don't want to lobby for girlfriend status if it's something I actually can't fulfill. It's important to me that I do not intentionally hurt him. That's why I'm trying to learn the best way to sort out these problems. Are they too big or can I cope?

are all his retaliations linked to you attacking him? or does the jerk in him spawn spontaneously?
I suspect that to him they are linked to my "attacks." I think he is 1) sensitive in general to criticism, 2) likes me more than he does the average person, and 3) his emotions come to the surface when I'm not happy with him but they manifest as anger and irritation. Sometimes, after days or weeks he may tell me he was wrong or handled a situation clumsily but he always includes how I had a hand in it too. The blow ups and their aftermath are what are affecting me in the longterm.

Has he called you overbearing?
Might he be spending those 48 hours with you because he thinks it's what you want?
Never, in fact I think the reason we became close friends in the first place is because I understand the need for space and personal time.

If we're spending a lot of time together I check in because there's often no set plan. He's emphatic if he wants to spend more time, understanding ( relieved?) if I need to go or want him to go, and honest if he wants to part for the day.
 
#7 ·
Quoting what you said in your previous post: ".
They are much too detail oriented, focusing on specifics when the general concept is actually more important, and will spend more time picking at and criticizing any imperfect details in an example or analogy than trying to understand the overall meaning of the broader expression. This leads to many arguments on linguistics that never get past the point of trying to define terms in a tedious, meticulous way, even if the original point being argued had nothing to do with how words are used and was supposed to be about something more interesting and important.

This, is more of an INTJ trait rather than an INTP. INTP's focus more on the big picture. Are you sure you're not dealing with an INTJ? Maybe checking out that profile might prove helpful. Not that it'll help with INTJ's though ^^
 
#10 · (Edited)
I quoted more than what I'd wanted. Specifically, this is what resonated with me:

.I don't like how their desire not to be censored can make them cruel and emotionally dangerous. They care more about being free to act like jerks than about being sensitive to the needs of others.
They tend to succumb easily to intellectual arrogance and are impossible to argue with because they are frequently dismissive and closed-minded, accepting only certain kinds of information as valid regardless of the nature of the topic...
..This means that eventually I will give up trying to please an INTP, and instead of breaking myself to pieces struggling for approval, I eventually learn to just avoid the person. With an INTP, I never end up with a sufficient level of security to feel safe being open and intimate about ideas and feelings, so any conversation is pointless... if I will ever be able to trust one not to hurt me, even if they don't always do it on
Interesting that you mentioned J because I have suspected he could be that too. He is all about the details and specifics which would be more J yet has a very spacey, absent minded quality to him which I attributed to P.
 
#9 ·
I've been trying to tell snail her guy seemed a lot more INTJ-ish for months now :laughing:

ThisProtest: first--you sound like an ISFP to me. It hardly matters, but it's just what I saw. Second, "quietly spending less time" with me would not be the best way to reduce drama. I haven't the slightest idea how F-types (particularly SFs) come to this conclusion, but it drives us nuts. Well... ok, so it's not that I don't have the slightest idea how it happens.... my guess is that the Fi means you dont want to hurt anyone, and the Se means that if you don't see someone suffering, you won't worry about it too much--but it's dozens of times worse for any IxTx you try it on.

That said, as much as it'd hurt to watch him hurt, be upfront and tell the guy the truth. If you drift away quietly, he'll have no idea why, and very likely end up bitter and grow to hate you in your absence for causing him pain for no apparent reason. It might ruin your friendship if you tell him straight what the problems are, and that you need to back off (if you let him know you feel like you're constantly censoring yourself, I think it'd ring some bells with him--most likely he's only mean because he doesn't feel like anyone should have to censor themselves)... but I'm almost sure it will if you start making semi-excuses not to hang out and backing away quietly. I've never yet had someone do that to me that I didn't end up upset with--at least for a while. I also frequent an INTP forum (or, used to--don't often check threads of either forum anymore), and the whole idea of deception (yes, that's how it's received if you try to spend less time together quietly) and hidden motives are virtually incomprehensible to them.

In that same vein, I strongly doubt he's actually trying to drive you away. I was actually stunned when I found out that people would really do that, and I don't think it'd occur to him either. That said, your INTP does sound like an asshole--or at the least really immature--so just because he's not truly trying to dive you away, I certainly don't think you should try to stick it out and make sacrifices all the time. That'd just be a recipe for disaster (for you). So, I don't think there's any other advice to give--just that "however it ends up working out if you're up front about your need for space because he's hurting you, it likely would have worked out much worse if you tried to do it quietly and 'painlessly.'"


edit: On second thought, I better add this. I didn't want to say it at first, cause it's not worth criticizing unnecessarily--but since it has a distinct purpose, I figure I'd better. Your whole relationship with him (good friends, but lots of casual sex... he hurts you, but you still hang out with him... those kinds of things) sounds reeally immature. That is, whatever-it-is seems doomed already. I wouldn't have brought it up, except for the fact that you said snail's post from the 'what do you hate about intps' thread rang lots of bells. The guy she was describing was.... well, to put it lightly, the most evil person that I've ever heard existing. He, too, showed all sorts of care at the beginning, and trailed it off significantly later, until he turned fully abusive (and then some). I've never yet heard of any person doing as much psychological damage to another as he did.... and I've heard stories from a lot of different people who have been abused in their lives. If her post really did ring that many bells, you might want to consider the possibility that you should just run away and never look back.
 
#11 ·
I've been trying to tell snail her guy seemed a lot more INTJ-ish for months now :laughing:

your INTP does sound like an asshole--.'"
INTJ for sure ^^

While I would originally haven given you the advice of just seeing him less frequently and see if that reduces the arguments after reading Cryptonia's post I can see how that would annoy him more if he didn't know why. That leaves you with 2 sensible options I guess. Either tell him how you feel and take it from there, or tell him that you need some time alone to think about your relationship, optionally telling him that he's hurting you. Do not go for the "well if you don't know why then I guess you don't care" I find myself getting highly annoyed when someone does that to me.

I really wish I could give some concrete advice here but I must admit I've never had this happen to me so I'm just going with what I think are your best options. Combined with the fact intp's are not naturally proficient at relationships you're setting yourself up for some high quality advise here ;)
 
#13 ·
I think you need to figure out what you need, it seems like you expect more from the time you spend together than he can give you. Its kind of classic behavior, he gets what he wants and you feel abused. Just not at a physical level but emotional level. Have you asked him what he sees you as? Maybe he dont consider it to be a relationship/dating. Maybe he has different expectations than you or maybe he wont give you what you need.

And figure out if he's a INTJ or INTP there is a major differences in our ways. I speculate he's an INTJ, I would want things to be clear from the start but would be open to changes. I would respect you for whatever position you take, but I also have a playful side where I can be sarcastic to the people I have feelings for. It never goes too deep though, I have still have and show respect. What you have to understand is that if you comment everything and gives judgement to all things it is going to annoy an INTP at some point. We look at the world as an entity and there is no black and white there is almost always a grey to anything, we like nuancing we dont like clear cut in stone ideas.

I have problems with my grandmother lately with this, she's clearly my opposite and gives judgement to anything and at a certain time its just enough for me and I give it tough and clearly to her. And I've been told from my parents that she feels hurt by that, but even if I say things in a way that hurts her I still respects her as my grandmother. Just an example.

So its about finding a common understanding to how to communicate with eachother.
 
#14 ·
I think you need to figure out what you need, it seems like you expect more from the time you spend together than he can give you.
Strangely, it's our time together, if private (because he's extremely tense in pubic places), that is almost painfully sincere. I don't mean sex, but all of our time. It's the disagreements that have caused the problems.

Honestly, I do not think he's aware of his limits. I've seen him make efforts to at least appease me but it's iike watching a cat try not to catch a bird. It almost seems to go against his nature.

But now I am more aware of the limits and must make a decision.

Its kind of classic behavior, he gets what he wants and you feel abused.
Classic with INTPs or classic for humans?

Just not at a physical level but emotional level. Have you asked him what he sees you as? Maybe he dont consider it to be a relationship/dating. Maybe he has different expectations than you or maybe he wont give you what you need.
Yes, I am trying to figure out what I need. That way, if I know what I need then I can say, "I need X, can you give it to me?"

And figure out if he's a INTJ or INTP there is a major differences in our ways. I speculate he's an INTJ,
I'm new to al the types so I don't know any very well except I see him in both INTX.

I would want things to be clear from the start but would be open to changes.
Hmm, I think he described his other relationships starting as friendships then turning into more. Not a bad stratetgy if one does not want to be clear from the start.

I would respect you for whatever position you take, but I also have a playful side where I can be sarcastic to the people I have feelings for.
Check. (He thinks he is this way.)


What you have to understand is that if you comment everything and gives judgement to all things it is going to annoy an INTP at some point. We look at the world as an entity and there is no black and white there is almost always a grey to anything, we like nuancing we dont like clear cut in stone ideas.
This sounds just like him and us. I'm accustomed to discussing and critiquing everything and lately there's been a lot! So, yes I can see how an INTP and maybe a J would find this annoying. I find it annoying too.

I have problems with my grandmother lately with this, she's clearly my opposite and gives judgement to anything and at a certain time its just enough for me and I give it tough and clearly to her. And I've been told from my parents that she feels hurt by that, but even if I say things in a way that hurts her I still respects her as my grandmother. Just an example.
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending him, he thinks he respects me because he pays attention to me. Seriously, if he doesn't think a person is worth his time they simply don't exist. Our difference is our definition of respect.

So its about finding a common understanding to how to communicate with each other.
Yes.
 
#16 ·
cryptonia said:
ThisProtest: first--you sound like an ISFP to me. It hardly matters, but it's just what I saw.
I just read that profile and while I'm sure I'm not, I can see why you'd think that based on what I've posted. It is important to me that I explain I care for this INTx.

Second, "quietly spending less time" with me would not be the best way to reduce drama. ...but it's dozens of times worse for any IxTx you try it on.
While I have no idea how he'd actually take it, there's no way he'd ever let on that it would bother him. Maybe you wouldn't let on either, I'm just saying.

That said, as much as it'd hurt to watch him hurt, be upfront and tell the guy the truth. If you drift away quietly, he'll have no idea why, and very likely end up bitter and grow to hate you in your absence for causing him pain for no apparent reason.
I really don't think he'll show any hurt. He'll go cold as ice. Maybe I'm really trying to avoid being hurt by his need to show his indifference?

It might ruin your friendship if you tell him straight what the problems are, and that you need to back off (if you let him know you feel like you're constantly censoring yourself, I think it'd ring some bells with him--most likely he's only mean because he doesn't feel like anyone should have to censor themselves)... but I'm almost sure it will if you start making semi-excuses not to hang out and backing away quietly. I've never yet had someone do that to me that I didn't end up upset wit
So, I should say, "I like you a lot, as you know, but since we argue so differently I need some space."?

and the whole idea of deception (yes, that's how it's received if you try to spend less time together quietly) and hidden motives are virtually incomprehensible to them.
He thinks about strategy and hidden motives all the time.

In that same vein, I strongly doubt he's actually trying to drive you away. I was actually stunned when I found out that people would really do that, and I don't think it'd occur to him either. That said, your INTP does sound like an asshole--or at the least really immature--
Yes, he's immature. I've been quite surprised at times by just how bad it seems to be and it's only become apparent through our disagreements. In fact, that's probably the real reason that my flag has gone up, the lights came on, and all those sayings about becoming aware of a possibly disturbing trait.

so just because he's not truly trying to dive you away, I certainly don't think you should try to stick it out and make sacrifices all the time. That'd just be a recipe for disaster (for you).
I agree.

So, I don't think there's any other advice to give--just that "however it ends up working out if you're up front about your need for space because he's hurting you, it likely would have worked out much worse if you tried to do it quietly and 'painlessly.'"

edit: On second thought, I better add this. I didn't want to say it at first, cause it's not worth criticizing unnecessarily--but since it has a distinct purpose, I figure I'd better. Your whole relationship with him (good friends, but lots of casual sex... he hurts you, but you still hang out with him... those kinds of things) sounds reeally immature. That is, whatever-it-is seems doomed already. I wouldn't have brought it up, except for the fact that you said snail's post from the 'what do you hate about intps' thread rang lots of bells. The guy she was describing was.... well, to put it lightly, the most evil person that I've ever heard existing. He, too, showed all sorts of care at the beginning, and trailed it off significantly later, until he turned fully abusive (and then some). I've never yet heard of any person doing as much psychological damage to another as he did.... and I've heard stories from a lot of different people who have been abused in their lives. If her post really did ring that many bells, you might want to consider the possibility that you should just run away and never look back.
Thank you for adding this. I'm not offended just appreciative.

Would there be any advantage to my reposting my thread on the INTJs' forum?
 
#17 ·
Funny people are saying you sound ISFP when you strike me as a developed ENFP and I can see why you would confuse your NFP when you get healthy.

In this situation I second the opinions above about being frank with him. Like sit alone with yourself and sort out exactly how you feel about him now, and how you see it going in the next year, 5 yr, or so. And when you are true to yourself that way you can easily place him in his allocated position in your life.

Sometimes firm action needs to be taken, like to actually say the words * this isn't working for me as is, we need to fix it somehow * (doesn't matter if he is P or J)

I'd say keep the part added by cryptonia in the back of your head, but not because he is INTP, but because he is human and alot of guys are bound to that flaw of hanging on for the sex and you expressing your love to him might be taken as need for the sex, and then he refuses to call you anything more than friends.. can you see where I am going? This is a possibility among many.
 
#18 ·
I agree with this and what I meant with the classic example is pretty good worded in the last paragraph.

It dont matter what type he is, you need to be respected for the way you communicate as he is needed to respected for his way. You just need to find common ground. Thats pretty much what a relationship is about, if that is what you want.
 
#19 ·
what do you mean, "wonders about" hidden motivations all the time? For some reason, when you put it that way, it's like a whole blocked-chunk of my memory popped open, and I realize that I did that too, and am not quite sure why I put it like that in my last post.

What I should have said is--if someone did that to me, even if I considered them better-than-friends, the reasons you would be doing it (unless you had told me specifically) would be about the last ones that would ever come to mind. The first, if I thought it was for a bad-situation that they were withdrawing (definitely the stronger of these two), would be "they've gotten sick of me" or "I annoyed them too much." If I thought we were perfectly fine, I would just assume that the little first-stages of the relationship were over, and we were starting to shift back into our everyday-life mode. I'm not sure if that applies, here, because I can't imagine myself becoming such close friends with someone who hurt me (or who I hurt) that badly. "They're backing off because I hurt them a lot" makes waay less sense, though, because I figure if that were the case, they'd just say so. And, since it makes so much less sense (instead of just coming to me, who may be able to fix it), I'm not even sure that it'd occur to me at all.


Anyway, yeah, I mean... posting it on the intj forum too couldn't hurt, could it? You might be able to tell by how their mannerisms differ from the INTPs' here which type your guy is, too. I strongly suspect that they'll say the same thing (for different reasons), though--or at least, I have a hard time imagining an INTJ saying much besides "you should always be 100% upfront about how you see things like that, and his reaction to it is his responsibility to deal with."
 
#21 · (Edited)
(Edited to be less wordy and hopefully a bit more PG.)

A few days ago my sex partner couldn't ciimax and became very cold and distant very fast. Soon after that I was dumb and seeked an apology for the coldness just before we were probably going to have sex. He responded by saying it was my fault. I was surprised to learn I had been solely responsible for bad sex. I couldn't get past what he'd accused me of. Eventually, I went home. There was no fight, no scene but we just agreed it was best if I left. I had clarity of mind and realized that if I stayed I would have no respect for myself because I thought he'd insulted me and if we had sex again I'd feel used. I felt sad but very proud as I walked away.

He would like to see me this weekend and has suggested plans for going out (i.e. it isn't just a booty call) and I'm confused as to why he wants anything to do with me. I'd understand better if it were just about sex.

Question for the INTJs:


- If someone you liked was hurt by your actions would you want to be told and how would it affect you?
- What would be an effective way for that person to tell you? He can turn a comment I make into an insult so I need a new strategy.
- Nobody likes an ultimatum. How can I present my case and say, "I'm going to leave this relationship," and outline what needs to change without it seeming like a threat? If I threaten he'll just shut down because he'll perceive it as coercion, because in a way it is.
 
#22 ·
Forgive me for being seemingly blunt but I think (imo) you are mistaken in this situation (and not because of the sex).

Do you notice that while you are nitpicking at his pouting that you aren't cheerful yourself?

I think you're letting past grudges get the best of you and manifest in your attitude which is putting him under stress trying to figure out what's going on with you as much as you are bewildered at him. I'm not sure I'm aware of the dynamics of the whole thing.. but

"Aren't you supposed to be gone by now? You said you had to go by XX..."
To me it seems like something logical to say. I know you would rather him say * don't go I'll miss you * but in his head he didn't do anything wrong by saying this.

You bringing up his incapability of satisfying you, right before he will be most likely attempting to satisfy you again... why? I mean why didn't you just give him a chance to display his affection...

You are feeling insecure in this relationship, and him being an INT with possibly very low tuning in to his emotions, let alone yours; the result is you nitpicking on the stuff, and punishing him..

I felt sad but very proud as I walked away.
I can't help but repeating this thing I said before to another Ne Fi user; try to remember who you were in the beginning of this relationship and compare it to how you behave around him now. He loved the you in the beginning, and he really can't understand the you now.. which is most likely causing him stress and fatigue which will present itself as withdrawal.

Keep in mind that as he might not be in tune with his emotions, he wants to feel accepted too, and you aren't offering him security as you protest to every little thing. He does it because it is who he is, you are doing it why?
 
#23 ·
Forgive me for being seemingly blunt but I think (imo) you are mistaken in this situation (and not because of the sex).
I like bluntness, albeit with some good NF :laughing: padding.


I think you're letting past grudges get the best of you and manifest in your attitude which is putting him under stress trying to figure out what's going on with you as much as you are bewildered at him.
Yes, I agree that I'm being hypervigilant and therefore it's hard to fully be in the moment. He may also be thinking about the things I did bring up and be anticipating more criticism. Recently, during our last argument, he said something about me refusing to forget stuff he'd done (we weren't arguing over the past, the comment was almost a non sequitor).

What was so upsetting to me was that I was in the moment for that night and morning. Things were going great and I felt I could maybe have faith again. Then, out of the blue (to me, at the time), he can't have an orgasm and I was punished.

For the record: he's had that happen before and I've never, ever brought attention to it (like any decent human being), so while it isn't easy for him to experience that frustration, he's never taken it out on me before. And I'm not mean about his inexperience, if anything it's fun to teach!

To me it seems like something logical to say. I know you would rather him say * don't go I'll miss you * but in his head he didn't do anything wrong by saying this.
Oh, totally. That's how he is and on it's own I wouldn't have been offended because I know it's normal for him (and something I like about him; it's oddly endearing) but I was trying to explain the events as they progressed. My emphasis should have been on the weak hug. That was something he did on purpose to be unkind. A normal morning would be to point out the time and then a give a good strong hug.

You bringing up his incapability of satisfying you, right before he will be most likely attempting to satisfy you again... why? I mean why didn't you just give him a chance to display his affection...
He blamed me for his not achieving orgasm. I didn't say, "Ha ha, you couldn't please me this morning!"

Oh, but wait, duh, it took me all this time to see what you're saying: even though it's wrong to blame the partner for the loss of an erection, hey, don't bring it up just before you may have sex. I was so caught up with my own feelings, with seeking affirmation and an apology for the coldness, I didn't realize it could be taken as criticism about something he couldn't help. So, he was feeling attacked and his defense was to turn the tables. Wow, I have to admit that I'm surprised I didn't see that until right now.


I can't help but repeating this thing I said before to another Ne Fi user; try to remember who you were in the beginning of this relationship and compare it to how you behave around him now. He loved the you in the beginning, and he really can't understand the you now.. which is most likely causing him stress and fatigue which will present itself as withdrawal.
You and I do think alike ; ) The way I've coped with this has been to make certain I get more involved with the things I love and I have and it helps tremendously with perspective.

Keep in mind that as he might not be in tune with his emotions, he wants to feel accepted too, and you aren't offering him security as you protest to every little thing. He does it because it is who he is, you are doing it why?

You are feeling insecure in this relationship, and him being an INT with possibly very low tuning in to his emotions, let alone yours; the result is you nitpicking on the stuff, and punishing him..
I know. My problem is that I'm very focused on getting the respect I deserve and obviously I don't trust him.
 
#25 ·
I told him we needed to take a break, but I think it's over

A few nights ago I said I thought we needed to take a break. Unfortunately, it did come up when he was already irritated with me but I felt I had to say it that night because I was either going to become an angry, hurt, crying mess in front of him (I'd already done a lot of crying in private) or stay calm because I knew I was at least proposing some sort of solution.

Things started to get tense afte we had sex but it was one-sided (as it has been for some weeks). I calmly said that I’d noticed this and explained I was bringing it up because when we discussed it before he had encouraged me to tell him in the future if I felt overlooked (my word). He asked for specific times and then he accused me of coming to his home to "trick" him into sex so I could criticize him! I couldn’t believe what he’d just said. It was so outrageous, mean and selfish that I almost laughed! Instead a calm feeling took over. I felt as if I was finally seeing and hearing everything.

I made certain that he understood I had no intention of tricking him. Once that was settled I said I was frustrated with him for avoiding my questions about whether he saw me as his girlfriend or if we were in a relationship. Since he already felt defensive he didn’t actually answer but just said things like he was tired, didn’t think I was acting as if I wanted to be a girlfriend and that he was being picked on.

I emphasized how much I cared for him and then asked if he thought we should take a break. I think he thought I was bluffing. He said, “sure,” and I asked for how long. He wouldn’t answer but just kept answering with questions meant to bait me into an argument. We never did establish a time but as he showed me out he exclaimed how “great” it would be to have a break from me because he would have his home to himself and wouldn’t have to worry about my trying to borrow money (he paid for a few dinners, that’s all, I never once asked him for money). I replied that it was sad he saw us that way because our relationship meant so much to me. That was the last thing said.

While "over" was never said, I think we are. I'm feeling a mixture of relief and sadness.

Unfortunately I have a few of his belongings so if he gets in touch with me at all it will be for those. Maybe I should just mail them.
 
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#26 ·
I think the major problem here is the sex. Why not just be friends and abstain from any physical contact? That might help put things in perspective. And he will see you as an equal not as someone he or you can take advantage off physically.

I have to say he does not sound that intp. INTP's are more openended.
 
#27 ·
I think the major problem here is the sex. Why not just be friends and abstain from any physical contact? That might help put things in perspective. And he will see you as an equal not as someone he or you can take advantage off physically.
I've considered this but I don't know how I would feel about it. Before it became such an issue, I really enjoyed the physical intimacy but now it certainly is an issue.

Not sure where to go from here.
 
#29 ·
you cant expect a relationship to come from physical contact. That is a lie that some people have made up in their minds and you cant. I think that putting out on the first night dont accomplish what is was that you wanted in the first place. Well if what you where looking for was a long term relationship.

Relationships take time, it might take several dates before you truely knows if the guy/girl is something lasting, so why destroy it by having sex. It should come natural from deep down, not just from your lust, it should be your brain, your emtions that should tell you this is a guy/girl worth giving my affection.

If you just want a one night stand, find someone with the same desire.
 
#36 ·
I am in a similar situation with an ISFP (I've posted a few things about it, but whatevz) that I've recently had some good healthy thoughts about that I think would be good to share now.

Iunno. I kinda had to take a GIANT mental leap backwards and really assess the situation from a lot of angles. The 'love' seriously clouded my........everything. Which is exactly why INTP's beat that shit into the back of our minds most of the time by thinking. Those emotions are dangerous business. After my leap backward, I realized I was just being INCREDIBLY unfair to myself.

Basically, without going too in depth with the back story, I was willingly exposing myself to constant emotionally painful and unsatisfying situations, including tolerating uninspired people I would never surround myself around just because of their association to him.

Then I thought about it. I randomly test people. That's how I get friends. And what I do in that situation. Is I just don't hang out with them again if it doesn't go okay. So I just had no idea why I was exposing myself to that kind of unhappiness for no reason. And now, at least for me, keeping that in mind is making it very easy to just. Say fuck it.
 
#39 ·
I am in a similar situation with an ISFP (I've posted a few things about it, but whatevz) that I've recently had some good healthy thoughts about that I think would be good to share now.
Yes, I've been wondering where you were!
Iunno. I kinda had to take a GIANT mental leap backwards and really assess the situation from a lot of angles. The 'love' seriously clouded my........everything. Which is exactly why INTP's beat that shit into the back of our minds most of the time by thinking. Those emotions are dangerous business.
I saw what was at least infatuation with "my INTx" and it certainly seemed to have him distracted from everything else.

Is there ever a good reason for you to feel or want to feel? What exactly makes emotions dangerous business? (She writes wishing she could turn hers off!)

After my leap backward, I realized I was just being INCREDIBLY unfair to myself.

...I was willingly exposing myself to constant emotionally painful and unsatisfying situations,
Very familiar. I like, "unfair to myself," I'm going to file that.

including tolerating uninspired people I would never surround myself around just because of their association to him.
Good God, that is love/ lust/ infatuation.

Then I thought about it. I randomly test people. That's how I get friends. And what I do in that situation. Is I just don't hang out with them again if it doesn't go okay. So I just had no idea why I was exposing myself to that kind of unhappiness for no reason. And now, at least for me, keeping that in mind is making it very easy to just. Say fuck it.
I think you are him.

Your point is taken and it makes sense too.

You know what I think you should do? Show him this thread. Don't even talk to him before he finishes reading it from start to finish, I'm sure hell be interested enough.

Well, judge for yourself if doing this is truly a good idea, I don't know the man well enough.
I've thought of that.

But what he'll find here is sincerity and truth.
Uh-oh, I'm feeling all emotional again.

If you're afraid of his reaction, maybe do it as a last resort if and when things really go sour?
"Look at this if you think I'm not worth your time!"

Ha. I've done that before ^^^^^^^
And...?
 
#37 ·
You know what I think you should do? Show him this thread. Don't even talk to him before he finishes reading it from start to finish, I'm sure hell be interested enough.

Well, judge for yourself if doing this is truly a good idea, I don't know the man well enough. But what he'll find here is sincerity and truth.

If you're afraid of his reaction, maybe do it as a last resort if and when things really go sour?
 
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