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Discussion Starter #1
I've been with the woman almost 2 years now. It is a long distance relationship mostly. She lives in the Caribbean and I in North America. I moved down there and lived there for about 6 months. Visited 2 times before that. Have not seen each other in 6 months.

Typical stress factors between an ENFP and ISTJ come up. Fine. It's all about whether they outweigh the positives gained from being romantically connected to someone on the complete opposite spectrum of the Types. Deal breakers.

Lately, we've both come to the conclusion that neither is happy. Needs are not being met. Especially because of the distance factor.

I just want to know whether I should finally, once and for all, just let go. Nobody can decide that for me, but I just want the educated opinion of my fellow Personality Gurus.

Noting that we are the best of the 16 types at personal relationships, do you guys believe that we are truly happiest with other NF's?
 

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ENFP re romantic and hopeful, we fight for our love if we believe our other half is the one :happy: If you believe you guys have special connection with each other, I say do whatever it takes for your love (Maybe it's just me young that I have such un-cynical words :laughing:)

P/s: I dont believe NF can find connection with ST :unsure:
 

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I KNOW NF can connect with ST. My boyfriend is ESTJ and I am (duh) ENFP. He is actually the only guy I have ever really connected with on anything further than just that 'friend' level. He really balances me out, and vice versa. I think it helps that we are self-aware of our personality types, and I have spelled out the differences between how we process information. Then again, we are just teenagers. (almost 17, and 18) So what do I know? But I think that it is very possible to connect with ST's, especially since he is surprisingly sensitive for a T, always telling me his emotions. (Maybe he mistyped on the test? lol)

But you have to keep in mind that their is so much more to a person than just their MBTI and Enneagram. We may process information the same, but we still function different from each other. I think it should be taken on a case by case basis.

Best of luck.
 

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I don't have a wealth of relationship experience to pull from, but I have grown up in a home where my mom was ENFP and my dad was ISTJ. Complete opposites, so I know something of differences. The question is whether or not ENFPs can be truly at their happiest with other NFs, and I say nay. If you read what the eggheads write about us, they specifically say that relationships with other NFs are easier, not happier. The reason the average happy rate is higher for NF-NF relationships is because it is easier, therefore more are likelier to succeed. Not happier just easier. Easier because two such people speak the same language. However, I'm sure what draws you to this person is the fact that you can't read her so easily, the mystery that she is different fundamentally. And while this can and does lead to problems in the relationship, more open honest seeking communication is a good remedy for those things. From the short description you gave, my first thought is that the real problem may be the distance, long distance is hard to do, one of the only things I can actually say from relationship experience.

If you two want to stay together, I would say talk openly and honestly and often about each others needs, which are being met and which aren't. I have complete and utter faith that happiness and a stable relationship can both come from the pairing you described, although you might want to think long and hard about the feasibility of such a relationship over such distances (is there a foreseeable future with someone in the Caribbean? It can't remain long distance forever, there will come a point where for the relationship to move forward one person will have to relocate to the other's location). But as far as the pairing itself goes, all that is required is better more open, direct communication about needs and desires. I should know, my parents have been doing it for a quarter of a century now. It can happen, but it won't happen on its own.:happy: Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't have a wealth of relationship experience to pull from, but I have grown up in a home where my mom was ENFP and my dad was ISTJ. Complete opposites, so I know something of differences. The question is whether or not ENFPs can be truly at their happiest with other NFs, and I say nay. If you read what the eggheads write about us, they specifically say that relationships with other NFs are easier, not happier. The reason the average happy rate is higher for NF-NF relationships is because it is easier, therefore more are likelier to succeed. Not happier just easier. Easier because two such people speak the same language. However, I'm sure what draws you to this person is the fact that you can't read her so easily, the mystery that she is different fundamentally. And while this can and does lead to problems in the relationship, more open honest seeking communication is a good remedy for those things. From the short description you gave, my first thought is that the real problem may be the distance, long distance is hard to do, one of the only things I can actually say from relationship experience.

If you two want to stay together, I would say talk openly and honestly and often about each others needs, which are being met and which aren't. I have complete and utter faith that happiness and a stable relationship can both come from the pairing you described, although you might want to think long and hard about the feasibility of such a relationship over such distances (is there a foreseeable future with someone in the Caribbean? It can't remain long distance forever, there will come a point where for the relationship to move forward one person will have to relocate to the other's location). But as far as the pairing itself goes, all that is required is better more open, direct communication about needs and desires. I should know, my parents have been doing it for a quarter of a century now. It can happen, but it won't happen on its own.:happy: Good luck.
You are absolutely correct. It is just that OPEN, and FREE COMMUNICATION is so damn difficult with ISTJ's.... Thank you for your reply however.

What sort of dynamic would you say you experienced growing up in such a home? Also, I think such a relationship is easier if the ENFP were female... isntead of the ISTJ female complaining that the ENFP male will never get serious....lol
 

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The long distance aspect is the killer. If that wasn't in the equation you'd have one less significant obstacle to deal with.

I'm always wondering why all the NFs I know never seem to end up with other NFs if it's suppose to be such an ideal relationship. The best relatinonshis I have had were with an ESFP and a ISTP (whom I married).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The long distance aspect is the killer. If that wasn't in the equation you'd have one less significant obstacle to deal with.

I'm always wondering why all the NFs I know never seem to end up with other NFs if it's suppose to be such an ideal relationship. The best relatinonshis I have had were with an ESFP and a ISTP (whom I married).
Wish I knew too.... Perhaps it is the counter balance in ourselves with which we are so ennamoured.
You are right... it just killed it late last night...

*Sigh*

So tired....
 

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Just so you know, my mom is the ENFP in the family, and even though it makes sense that she's more emotional, it doesn't stop my dad from blaming her for it. ISTJ's can be ones to assign blame, I think mostly because they don't know how much harm it does, only that it's the first thing they think of. USUALLY, when someone is doing something hurtful in an otherwise happy healthy relationship, its because of their internal wiring and not something they are consciously doing to hurt people. So the kind of communication I'm talking about is telling her in a non-confrontational manner the things she's doing that are inadvertently hurtful or at the very least counter-productive by invoking your emotions when she doesn't intend to (also with my dad it helps for me to pretend I'm at like a business meeting and I have an agenda, helps me speak his language). The key here is learning to speak her language, and love, it all comes down to being loving, which doesn't mean affectionate in this case, it means putting her first, seeking resolution to these problems so that the general relationship might improve and not just so you won't be off-put by her behavior anymore. And believe me, if you start successfully speaking her language, then she will get interested in speaking yours better. I have a question for you, if you're willing to elaborate, what kinds of things are standing in the way of open an honest communication?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
you should really post this on the istj forum

the distance for NOW is your biggest problem
Do you know how to link this to a new post in ISTJ? These are among my first regular posts/threads. Still learning.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I have a question for you, if you're willing to elaborate, what kinds of things are standing in the way of open an honest communication?
OK. This took a little effort. I pulled a looong ass text I sent a while ago to which I received one question I can clearly remember.

"Masks? What kind of masks are you talking about?"

Note: English is her second language. In the interest of such, I try to make my texts convey more simple impact statements than to speak metaphorically. Especially to an ISTJ:crazy:!...

Actually, to be honest that is not true. I mention God, and even though I grew up as an alter boy, I don't know how much faith in the big guy I personally have... Here goes.

You never inconvenience yourself for anyone. It means you never put someone before yourself if it will make you feel even a little uncomfortable. I would say I inconvenienced my self for us, for you, for our relationship. It was worth it. I learned a lot .Tell me, does the fact that I will do this for us but you wont, does this mean you are lucky or does it mean that I am a fool? By protecting yourself so you wont get hurt, you managed to push me away from every angle.While you are busy protecting yourself I am trying really hard to connect with the real you. The one you keep warning me about. You keep saying I have not seen anything yet. Thats the person you are protecting and that is the person I accept and love. It is the saddest thing in my life.Instead of being yourself and loving me, you would rather protect yourself from pain but what you are also doing is closing the door to the most wonderful thing God ever created: love. I see who you really are, underneath the masks you wear.You feel all alone and that you cant count on anyone. I even think you are a little scared, but you probably wont admit that. You can count on me. I will always be there for you and accept you for who you really are. Whatever you need or whatever you want, i will be there . But you have to be the real you.Stop protecting yourself. Stop pretending you don't care. Stop living your life alone. let me in. You can pretend that its easier not to count on anyone, to not let anyone close enough to hurt you or let you down but I think you are wrong. yes it is easier to live like that, but it will never ever never compare to a life spent giving your heart, mind, body, and soul to someone, and having that other person share the same with you. That kind of feeling, that kind of real love, is what I think God felt when he created the world.He wanted to share with someone all that is real love and experience how amazing it is to feel that love back.They say accept God with all our soul, mind and body.To love him the way he loves us.Will you be with me?
 
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@Burning Lion--

This actually sounds like you are venting at what is keeping open communication from happening, rather than seeking to understand what is actually the problem. IOW, you are frustrated and are expressing that frustration in a lot of "you" and "I" statements, which really represent your feelings about it all.

The first portion is fairly off-putting and would tend to cause an ISTJ to clam up a bit. If you want her to open up, you gotta stay away from that kind of talk.

The real issue is one of trust. For an ISTJ to open up, they've got to feel secure and that they can trust that you have their best interests at heart. Until that happens, you are likely to have to give emotionally much more than she does. After you win her trust, she will open up a lot more and will give back more to the relationship.

To be sure, there are many things I'd like to say to her about what she needs to do to work on the relationship. Unfortunately, she is not here and you are. Hence the thrust of my comments are directed toward you.

:happy:*Married to the ENFP love of my life for 25 years...Tomorrow!*:happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
@Burning Lion--

This actually sounds like you are venting at what is keeping open communication from happening, rather than seeking to understand what is actually the problem. IOW, you are frustrated and are expressing that frustration in a lot of "you" and "I" statements, which really represent your feelings about it all.

The first portion is fairly off-putting and would tend to cause an ISTJ to clam up a bit. If you want her to open up, you gotta stay away from that kind of talk.

The real issue is one of trust. For an ISTJ to open up, they've got to feel secure and that they can trust that you have their best interests at heart. Until that happens, you are likely to have to give emotionally much more than she does. After you win her trust, she will open up a lot more and will give back more to the relationship.

To be sure, there are many things I'd like to say to her about what she needs to do to work on the relationship. Unfortunately, she is not here and you are. Hence the thrust of my comments are directed toward you.

:happy:*Married to the ENFP love of my life for 25 years...Tomorrow!*:happy:
Congratulations. Optimistic to hear to say the least.

Indulge me. What would you say to her? Even more so... how do you manage to make it work for 25 years and not want to kill each other?

I am venting but that is what it come down to when an ISTJ shuts down. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. When no amount of patience and understanding gets them to open up. When they are so encompassed in their own world and more importantly worldly problems, that they leave the "emotional bullshit" (her words) aside. People take a back seat to the priorities they set out for themselves.

I lived with this person. For an ISTJ to open up their home would mean they do trust me. It's not about trust with her. We've developed that already. She is frustrated that I am not providing IMMEDIATE, PHYSICAL presence. It's hard for her to think in the abstract and potential of a relationship when she wants someone to be with her NOW and help her out presently. etc. etc.

Do not forget... the fact that I am the male ENFP and her the female ISTJ makes a huge difference. As men, society portrays us as the silent, brooding, keep to himself, bread winning individual that you clearly are. I am sure you have lived a relatively successful life thus far...

All I am saying is that the dynamic is very different when the gender roles are reversed...

And another thing... I have to stay away from that kind of talk? What kind is that? The call-you-on-your-bullshit-evasiveness-unavailability-to-connect kind of talk? Sorry amigo but... I will not let her just crawl in to that solitary hole she finds comfort in ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME.... I give her space -as I am sure you request- but sometimes you guys are too.... Arrrgggghhhh

"OK honey. Sorry to hear your brother is such an Asshole..."
"Believe me, not as sorry as I am..."
"OK than. I am tired, going to sleep.....(singing) I love you. Mmm..."
"Yeah..."
"Don't be like that... you've had a long day. Why can't you just go to bed happy... why do you belittle what I say?"
"Whatever man. (annoyed) I don't want to talk about love right now. Love is not going to pay my bills....I'll call you tomorrow OK?"
"Yeah. Bye" (crushed and feeling alienated)
 

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You never inconvenience yourself for anyone. It means you never put someone before yourself if it will make you feel even a little uncomfortable. I would say I inconvenienced my self for us, for you, for our relationship. It was worth it. I learned a lot .Tell me, does the fact that I will do this for us but you wont, does this mean you are lucky or does it mean that I am a fool? By protecting yourself so you wont get hurt, you managed to push me away from every angle.While you are busy protecting yourself I am trying really hard to connect with the real you. The one you keep warning me about. You keep saying I have not seen anything yet. Thats the person you are protecting and that is the person I accept and love. It is the saddest thing in my life.Instead of being yourself and loving me, you would rather protect yourself from pain but what you are also doing is closing the door to the most wonderful thing God ever created: love. I see who you really are, underneath the masks you wear.You feel all alone and that you cant count on anyone. I even think you are a little scared, but you probably wont admit that. You can count on me. I will always be there for you and accept you for who you really are. Whatever you need or whatever you want, i will be there . But you have to be the real you.Stop protecting yourself. Stop pretending you don't care. Stop living your life alone. let me in. You can pretend that its easier not to count on anyone, to not let anyone close enough to hurt you or let you down but I think you are wrong. yes it is easier to live like that, but it will never ever never compare to a life spent giving your heart, mind, body, and soul to someone, and having that other person share the same with you. That kind of feeling, that kind of real love, is what I think God felt when he created the world.He wanted to share with someone all that is real love and experience how amazing it is to feel that love back.They say accept God with all our soul, mind and body.To love him the way he loves us.Will you be with me?
I am going to pick this apart the way a thinking type would. Actually, I'm going to pick this apart the way a mean English teacher picks apart a bad essay.

Your first mistake was in the first two words: "You never..." Here, there is a combination of "you" messages paired with a blaming word. In Laymen terms, this means that you are both singling her out and then placing responsibility to all of her actions. A better way to word this would be "When ____ happens between us, I feel like I am ______, and I feel this happens often." In all honesty... the first time I started to read this text, I actually had to stop reading it because there was so much negative language throughout. Even I would have been offended greatly if this had been sent to me. Next on the chopping block... Your rhetorical questioning that holds quite a bit of venom in it. You stated before that English is her second language, which probably means she may not understand the significance of such a question. When someone thinks they are expected to respond to a question with that much potency and anger, they tend to clam up and/or become highly defensive. Rhetorical questions are not a good idea, especially over text.

You did relatively well, until you added something onto the sentence with "scared" in it. You already know she will not easily admit her fear because she is afraid of being vulnerable and hurt. There is no need to restate this. There is also a great likelihood that she feels like you are shoving the way she feels and is in her face with the way you are saying things. You did well again, until you gave her orders to stop doing things. People with the T and J personalities combined don't take well to emotionally driven orders. Tell her that what she is doing is hurting you, and list the ways it is.

I suppose the last thing is... Don't pt too much emphasis on the religious aspect of things. Maybe she doesn't feel as strongly about religion as you do. Even if she does, the ending was very, very abrupt. I can make the connection between loving your God and loving each other in the same way, but the end of the text made no connection to put them together. That's like telling someone that penguins eat fish right before you ask them on a date. It makes little sence.

I hope the way I dissected this text will be a positive way of dealing with other people, not just ISTJs. I think any type would be offended reading that. Another hint... Try using "I" messages when you want someone to do something. For example, if you want someone to stop talking to you when you are trying to concentrate on something, you could say, "I am really trying to concentrate on something. I feel as if I cannot concentrate with outside distractions. Is it possible to ask me in a few minutes, after I'm done?" Here, you are expressing how you feel, telling them that you do not like what they are doing, and offering an alternate solution, all at once. This can be applied to your situation, though I cannot give you the exact words to say to someone in your position, or even in hers.

I hope I was able to help a little bit, at least. :)
 

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Burning Lion-

Veingogh has beaten me to the response, giving an excellent explanation of why your text was off putting to the ISTJ lady.
 

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she is indeed pretty amazing :D
-blink blink- I'm amazing? o.o

I haven't heard that in a long time, honestly. Thank you very much. I'm happy now. :)
 

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-blink blink- I'm amazing? o.o

I haven't heard that in a long time, honestly. Thank you very much. I'm happy now. :)
Be twice as happy. You are amazing and the well thought out response is appreciated.:happy:
 

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Be twice as happy. You are amazing and the well thought out response is appreciated.:happy:
I'm glad it was appreciated. I do have a well-developed thinking side, I suppose. I'm also one to use it when I don't think my feeling side fits the situation. In this case, just saying that "OMG that was sooo mean of you to say! :angry:" would do nothing for the situation. So, my thinking, practical side started working, and viola! There was an essay-worthy dissection. I'm very happy that I could be of help, though.
 
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