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So I've been boading over the idea that I could potentially benefit from learning to be more sensitive. I find the following reasons as to why I'm insentive is that I'm potentially to aware socially, I find this leads me to frown at times of potential inapropiate behavior. Outside of a full labotomy, is it even possible to learn to be more sensitive?
 

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So I've been boading over the idea that I could potentially benefit from learning to be more sensitive. I find the following reasons as to why I'm insentive is that I'm potentially to aware socially, I find this leads me to frown at times of potential inapropiate behavior. Outside of a full labotomy, is it even possible to learn to be more sensitive?
Yes, but I think it's something that comes with time. Allow your personality to develop naturally. Don't force it. ESTPs have natural strengths, and one of those is the ability to detach from emotion and make tough but necessary decisions.

It sounds like you're engaging your Fe too much. I tend to do that as well. If you want to be proactive about developing your personality, I would focus on developing Ti.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, but I think it's something that comes with time. Allow your personality to develop naturally. Don't force it. ESTPs have natural strengths, and one of those is the ability to detach from emotion and make tough but necessary decisions.

It sounds like you're engaging your Fe too much. I tend to do that as well. If you want to be proactive about developing your personality, I would focus on developing Ti.

HTH
I personally find my issue to be not engaging Fe enough, as for thinking I do that way to much. Lol.
 

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you dont engage it enough, says who? the pussies you offend? tell them to get over it bruh... not everybody has or understands our gifts. letting it eat at you will surely fuck your mind up.
 

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I personally find my issue to be not engaging Fe enough, as for thinking I do that way to much. Lol.
Yes, but you said this:

I find the following reasons as to why I'm insentive is that I'm potentially to aware socially
Social awareness is Fe at work. Are you overthinking people's reactions to you? If so, then I think that means that Fe is exercising dominance over Ti.

I think ESTPs have a tendency to go to that third function too much without even realizing it because it's an extroverted function like our dominant function. There's a comfort level there.

What do you mean when you say "I find this leads me to frown at times of potential inapropiate behavior"?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yes, but you said this:



Social awareness is Fe at work. Are you overthinking people's reactions to you? If so, then I think that means that Fe is exercising dominance over Ti.

I think ESTPs have a tendency to go to that third function too much without even realizing it because it's an extroverted function like our dominant function. There's a comfort level there.

What do you mean when you say "I find this leads me to frown at times of potential inapropiate behavior"?
I personally look down on people behaving in a maladaptive/wrong way socially.
 
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I personally look down on people behaving in a maladaptive/wrong way socially.
I'm not sure that there is necessarily anything wrong with that per se. It sounds like you are aware that you don't want to look down on people, but I think it's a strength to recognize socially inappropriate behavior. I think it's possible to develop the ability to recognize the behavior as undesirable without dismissing the person as undesirable. Unless I'm reading too much into it, it sounds to me like you are wanting to develop empathy for these people. Yes?
 

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So I've been boading over the idea that I could potentially benefit from learning to be more sensitive.
LOL. This was so me in my early 20s. Clownking, how old are you? I am not being patronizing; I just want to know where you are in the ESTP growth cycle. The third ESTP function, extraverted feeling, starts to rear its head in the 20s and 30s, and intraverted intuition, our fourth function, comes in when we hit our 40s and 50s. I am in fourth function territory and learning to adapt to these new functions is not a painless process. It's so much easier for us to live in our T and S world, but we can't isolate ourselves if we want to grow.

When you offend someone, it is so much easier for us to invalidate the feelings of others. What we do is say, "That person is being stupid", "he/she needs to lighten up", or the famous "well, I didn't mean to offend him/her". It's natural for us to go there, and you have to train yourself to consciously not go there.

And let's get back to something we ESTPs don't focus on enough: power. Because we see the world as it is, we are not as interested in seeing its potential as the Ns. Projecting a vision has power as does mastery of feelings.

No one wants a steady dose of ESTP reality all the time; that is a downer. The great movie, Mulholland Drive, was about reality versus illusion, and once I got the meaning I laughed at myself because I liked the illusion part: that an actor can make it in Hollywood on talent and with great family support. I didn't like the Hollywood reality of the sexual casting couch, petty jealousy, and even once actress literally killing another actress to get a part.

If you can make someone feel good versus bad, that is an enormous power right? What gives their ENFJs, the ultimate cheerleaders, their power? The ability to say things that make others feel better. Why wouldn't you want that? So if there is great value in doing what the ENFJs do, then you/we should admit there is great harm in offending others, and to your credit, you are doing so.

The next step is accepting how others are better at these functions than we are and learn from the other types. Then you have to consciously try to incorporate these functions into your/our day to day living.

Another person is hurting and instead of worrying about and protecting OUR/YOUR feelings, we have to force ourselves to try to empathize with theirs. It's not as natural as S and T come to us. We don't want to do it, but remind yourself when someone said something offensive to you and how you felt. And what would have made you feel better? And how much did it really matter if the person was actively trying to hurt you?

It's not natural for us to do so, and it takes more effort/brain power to get into that mode, but we just have to ask ourselves about how we would feel and how others would feel. How we feel is actually harder for us to determine than the feelings of others.

Going with that theme, it's much harder to get to the root of how we feel when we offended another. There is no set guide book of what is offensive and what is not, and we ESTPs love the rules to be as crystal clear as possible. If you feel badly about yourself when a F says, "you hurt me", then the F has won. That is fine when you/we are being assholes.

But it's not okay when you/we aren't being assholes and some F types can make your just saying a pleasant "hello" into an offensive insult. When that happens, the F is trying to hurt you ever bit as much as you would be if you call/make them feel stupid, and your natural response is to call/make them stupid, but you don't want to do that.

In the short term, identity trumps feelings so go there. If a feeler plays the offensive card in a crowd, don't hit back with truth, but a PC witty retort based on identity. Label the offended as an ultra sensitive baby but with humor. When it is one on one, you label them with being a serial offender, "And what are you upset about THIS time?"

I cannot emphasize this enough though. It is good that you want to not offend others, but it's equally important that we/you protect our own feelings. We shouldn't automatically feel badly if we offend another. Some feelers are actively looking to be offended, and it is very important we discriminate the serial offenders from the people who have a legitimate beef with our being insensitive.
 

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There's this thing some psychologists do called "empathy training". I imagine that learning sensitivity in a somewhat systematic way would look like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
LOL. This was so me in my early 20s. Clownking, how old are you? I am not being patronizing; I just want to know where you are in the ESTP growth cycle. The third ESTP function, extraverted feeling, starts to rear its head in the 20s and 30s, and intraverted intuition, our fourth function, comes in when we hit our 40s and 50s. I am in fourth function territory and learning to adapt to these new functions is not a painless process. It's so much easier for us to live in our T and S world, but we can't isolate ourselves if we want to grow.

When you offend someone, it is so much easier for us to invalidate the feelings of others. What we do is say, "That person is being stupid", "he/she needs to lighten up", or the famous "well, I didn't mean to offend him/her". It's natural for us to go there, and you have to train yourself to consciously not go there.

And let's get back to something we ESTPs don't focus on enough: power. Because we see the world as it is, we are not as interested in seeing its potential as the Ns. Projecting a vision has power as does mastery of feelings.

No one wants a steady dose of ESTP reality all the time; that is a downer. The great movie, Mulholland Drive, was about reality versus illusion, and once I got the meaning I laughed at myself because I liked the illusion part: that an actor can make it in Hollywood on talent and with great family support. I didn't like the Hollywood reality of the sexual casting couch, petty jealousy, and even once actress literally killing another actress to get a part.

If you can make someone feel good versus bad, that is an enormous power right? What gives their ENFJs, the ultimate cheerleaders, their power? The ability to say things that make others feel better. Why wouldn't you want that? So if there is great value in doing what the ENFJs do, then you/we should admit there is great harm in offending others, and to your credit, you are doing so.

The next step is accepting how others are better at these functions than we are and learn from the other types. Then you have to consciously try to incorporate these functions into your/our day to day living.

Another person is hurting and instead of worrying about and protecting OUR/YOUR feelings, we have to force ourselves to try to empathize with theirs. It's not as natural as S and T come to us. We don't want to do it, but remind yourself when someone said something offensive to you and how you felt. And what would have made you feel better? And how much did it really matter if the person was actively trying to hurt you?

It's not natural for us to do so, and it takes more effort/brain power to get into that mode, but we just have to ask ourselves about how we would feel and how others would feel. How we feel is actually harder for us to determine than the feelings of others.

Going with that theme, it's much harder to get to the root of how we feel when we offended another. There is no set guide book of what is offensive and what is not, and we ESTPs love the rules to be as crystal clear as possible. If you feel badly about yourself when a F says, "you hurt me", then the F has won. That is fine when you/we are being assholes.

But it's not okay when you/we aren't being assholes and some F types can make your just saying a pleasant "hello" into an offensive insult. When that happens, the F is trying to hurt you ever bit as much as you would be if you call/make them feel stupid, and your natural response is to call/make them stupid, but you don't want to do that.

In the short term, identity trumps feelings so go there. If a feeler plays the offensive card in a crowd, don't hit back with truth, but a PC witty retort based on identity. Label the offended as an ultra sensitive baby but with humor. When it is one on one, you label them with being a serial offender, "And what are you upset about THIS time?"

I cannot emphasize this enough though. It is good that you want to not offend others, but it's equally important that we/you protect our own feelings. We shouldn't automatically feel badly if we offend another. Some feelers are actively looking to be offended, and it is very important we discriminate the serial offenders from the people who have a legitimate beef with our being insensitive.
27, going on 28.probably the youngest estp here haha.yesterday though, I got one of the ENTJs to fuck off who was being aggressive towards one of the new ESTPs. Not remotely sensitive haha, but defeated them with their own logic. Still waiting for round 3 to claim victor rofl.gonna use a Julias Ceaser quote,"Vinci,vide vicci" or I saw, I came and I conquered.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@elvis2010 curious does HPV affect males? I may need to go to Vegas: IMG_6962.jpg , on a less serious note, the girls in dallas find a squat rack and think to themselves "I'm ready for playboy".
 

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LOL. HPV is a fancy term for warts. I think you meant to ask if men can get warts on their genitals and if so, can they get cancer from the warts? Of course, men can get warts, but it is very unlikely for men (versus women) to get cancer from the HPV /warts and being circumcised lowers that risk even more.
 

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Learning to validate people can be learned (which then in turn can develop some sensitivity).

I don't think you can simply decide you want to be more sensitive without using the exercises that help develop that.

Validating someone is actually a technique. You start with repeating back to someone what they said. If you need clarity you ask for it. Then follow with "so you mean" to establish is you're both on the same page. LISTEN too. Think from the other persons perspective, then think from your own, then break down with your Ti what makes sense, and deliver with your Fe with some consideration. (This technique is used in various fields really).

I didn't entirely relate to this thread simply because even though I do believe I am Se Ti Fe Ni, I think I have always been extremely hyper sensitive in some regards. Yes I can be callous at times outwardly. But internally since I was a very young child I did always care about my effect on other people. Also I can be in some specific ways gravely effected by other people. It's something that has always bothered me in ESTP descriptions. The difference between being perceived as having a lack of sensitivity vs actually someone lacking sensitivity are two different things. ESTP have a tendency to play things off I think. That is a deflection tactic. It does not mean we can not be sensitive.

Maybe I am wrong but i think 'we' can in some ways be more vulnerable to internal sensitivity than even our NFJ mbti cousins who outwardly display sensitivity.

I often describe myself like a bear, I can be pooh bear, a black bear, a panda bear, or a grizzly bear. Don't poke me.

I remember a few years ago I had a very specific and actually now in retrospect self destructive preoccupation with other people's Tactics for the principle of the matter. Really removed from the scenario I think my preoccupation with allowing so much of these people's actions to effect me was to distract myself. Distract myself from actually coping with my own grief at the time. It's not so much in retrospect that I was wrong in my assessment of some of these people and their conduct it was that I was allowing it to manifest into my energy and distract me from my grief. It was an easy outlet to release some of the grief bottled up by bitching. At a certain point after the fact more so in the last year really I had to look at myself and think about how counter productive that really is. It was literally surrendering to allowing myself to subscribe to a lot of that crud. I mean in some areas I am still working on this.

I just was able this year though to be more effective letting those tactical principles go. Interestingly I started to observe how many people in work places specifically do this. And then observed how much they were not addressing in their personal life. I am still working out a lot. Just maybe came to the realization of identifying what was happening.

I think at heart though ESTP are game players meaning we do have a code or outline in our head of fair conduct and good sportsmanship and tactic. A play book. Fair war if you will vs not. You don't fuck with me I won't fuck with you. Let live let be. You scratch my back I will scratch yours. And when people make foul plays we can have a tendency to retaliate way out of fair play and the person has no clue what hit them or why. I think we have to learn how to work past though letting others intentional fouls effect our behavior by feeding into it.
 

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Simple. Lose.

Do that, and you'll develop empathy, which will trigger sensitivity.

Lack of ability to be sensitive is a sign of weakness, not strength.
 

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So I've been boading over the idea that I could potentially benefit from learning to be more sensitive. I find the following reasons as to why I'm insentive is that I'm potentially to aware socially, I find this leads me to frown at times of potential inapropiate behavior. Outside of a full labotomy, is it even possible to learn to be more sensitive?
so do you want to be more sensitive or do you want to appear more tactful?
is it that you are being too obvious in your disdain or judgment towards others? or do you make crude jokes for Weston Mark

I think it is entirely possible to polish up on one's social graces, in fact there are several books about it… Etiquette books are great place to start. in terms of developing actual sensitivity though, I would guess that would have to do with tapping into your own feelings and being analytical about them and knowing which things have hurt and which things have not and why it is so, which could potentially make it easier to understand the feelings of others because you understand your own feelings.
I am not sure if you actually want to be more sensitive or simply appear more sensitive and those are not always the same things. There are plenty of people who are quite sensitive but put on a very abrasive front.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
LOL. HPV is a fancy term for warts. I think you meant to ask if men can get warts on their genitals and if so, can they get cancer from the warts? Of course, men can get warts, but it is very unlikely for men (versus women) to get cancer from the HPV /warts and being circumcised lowers that risk even more.
i was reading comments on thedirty about her and one of the guys said "she could be sea biscuits cousin" ahaha.
 
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