Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Since INTJs tend to value competence so highly, do you think you could be friends with someone who you thought was incompetent, e.g. at their job, even if you didn't have to work with them yourself?

What if the reason they are incompetent is not due to their technical ability but due to poor social skills, e.g. leading to them not getting the stakeholder support they need to implement a plan (and it is their job to implement the plan)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,378 Posts
I don't feel comfortable judging people like that. Judging behaviors is fair game, but judging people just doesn't sit right with me. I've screwed up on the job plenty of times (on multiple jobs), so I tend to be patient and forgiving toward others, at least for the sake of not being a hypocrite. So technical incompetence might simply be indicative of someone having a job that doesn't match their aptitude (which breaks my heart because I've been there).

Social incompetence is tolerable as long as it doesn't take the form of hostility. If a person is simply "weird," well, I'm about as weird as they come, so that doesn't bother me. Social incompetence in the form of lacking tact is something else entirely. By "tact," I mean respecting others even if they're different. Lacking empathy is even worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,864 Posts
Only if I didn't personally have to deal with them when they are at it. I could laugh if they were a klutz and blew something up if I wasn't there. In fact, I have a good friend who fits the description.

If their problem is due to a lack of social skill as you say, however, then I don't mind it as much, given they are willing to try to improve themselves (even if they sometimes fail).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I don't feel comfortable judging people like that. Judging behaviors is fair game, but judging people just doesn't sit right with me. I've screwed up on the job plenty of times (on multiple jobs), so I tend to be patient and forgiving toward others, at least for the sake of not being a hypocrite. So technical incompetence might simply be indicative of someone having a job that doesn't match their aptitude (which breaks my heart because I've been there).

Social incompetence is tolerable as long as it doesn't take the form of hostility. If a person is simply "weird," well, I'm about as weird as they come, so that doesn't bother me. Social incompetence in the form of lacking tact is something else entirely. By "tact," I mean respecting others even if they're different. Lacking empathy is even worse.

Lack of tact drives me. I definitely agree. I think the only reason to disregard someone who is incompetent is if they use that incompetence to be cruel or judgmental toward others. I really don't respect someone who has more knowledge, then belittles someone who does not, because that makes them even more incompetent; to choose to be unkind instead of teaching someone something useful. There is so many other great qualities people can possess other than just say competence technically or concerning knowledge that should also be celebrated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
I'm friendly with incompetent people all the time. Depends on what they're lacking. If they're a sloppy person that doesn't know how to take care of themselves, then no. But if it's a situation in which they're terrible at choosing partners, then it doesn't matter to me as long as their shortcomings aren't affecting my life.

I have plenty of areas I should work on. It'd be hypocritical to judge a friend on their capabilities alone. We're good as long as they don't expect me to fix their life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
My friends quite often used to be not the most competent/intelligent, but the decent people around me. So yes, I can be friends with incompetent people. One person immediately comes to my mind who also just happened to have picked the wrong major (and therefore quit). Still a great person and a good friend. I also consider trying/giving your best to be more important than being competent. Having to work with incompetent people is another story though.

There's also many different shades of being incompetent. I could not be friends with incompetence mixed with Dunning-Kruger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
When I started working many years ago, I was not very good at my first job and I didn't enjoy it. The former exacerbated the latter, and I suspect vice versa. I left that job, but I'm not sure I've ever gotten over the shame I felt about being incompetent /not as good as I should have been.

None of my friends/close acquaintances have ever been what I would call incompetent exactly, they have always somehow been much more accomplished and intelligent than me. But even so, a few have done very badly at/lost jobs due to poor social skills or bad attitude, and it always made me feel uncomfortable to hear about it. Now I wonder if my discomfort is due to my shame at my own previous poor performance, and desire to avoid being reminded of it.

At work, I tend not to want to be friends with people who are not competent, even if they seem to be lovely people. I realise this isn't nice and I should learn to be more compassionate, because if nothing else I was incompetent myself once.
 

·
Plague Doctor
INTJ, 5w4, Ni-T type
Joined
·
6,039 Posts
Since INTJs tend to value competence so highly, do you think you could be friends with someone who you thought was incompetent, e.g. at their job, even if you didn't have to work with them yourself?
Yes.

What if the reason they are incompetent is not due to their technical ability but due to poor social skills, e.g. leading to them not getting the stakeholder support they need to implement a plan (and it is their job to implement the plan)?
::nods::

While competence is admirable, I am only really concerned with my own competence and raising my children to be able to handle the world as adults with various tools they will need to navigate the world (both technically and socially).

[And, to reply to your second post to this thread, in a work setting, I'd imagine that my competence (or lack) would speak for itself. I can see how people who are not good at their job could bring down group performance, but I work alone by design so that I don't have to deal with anyone else messing with my work.]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Yes.


::nods::

While competence is admirable, I am only really concerned with my own competence and raising my children to be able to handle the world as adults with various tools they will need to navigate the world (both technically and socially).

[And, to reply to your second post to this thread, in a work setting, I'd imagine that my competence (or lack) would speak for itself. I can see how people who are not good at their job could bring down group performance, but I work alone by design so that I don't have to deal with anyone else messing with my work.]

Doesn't it make you lose respect for people if they are not competent?
 

·
Plague Doctor
INTJ, 5w4, Ni-T type
Joined
·
6,039 Posts
Doesn't it make you lose respect for people if they are not competent?
Not at all. I lose respect for people when they are more hurtful than helpful, when they attempt to manipulate me, when they lie to me, when they show disrespect for others, or other things along those lines. Respect, for me, is tied into character much more than it's tied into competence. While I might respect another person's capability, if they're unkind, intrusive, or a jerk, their abilities aren't worth much to me.

I guess it boils down to choice. People, in general, choose how they treat others. However, some people can't choose areas in which they excel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,472 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Not at all. I lose respect for people when they are more hurtful than helpful, when they attempt to manipulate me, when they lie to me, when they show disrespect for others, or other things along those lines. Respect, for me, is tied into character much more than it's tied into competence. While I might respect another person's capability, if they're unkind, intrusive, or a jerk, their abilities aren't worth much to me.

I guess it boils down to choice. People, in general, choose how they treat others. However, some people can't choose areas in which they excel.
Thank you, brightflashes. I think those are very wise words.
 

·
Registered
ENTJ; 8w7; Persian C
Joined
·
9,448 Posts
Can you be friends with an incompetent person?
No.

Since INTJs tend to value competence so highly, do you think you could be friends with someone who you thought was incompetent, e.g. at their job, even if you didn't have to work with them yourself?
Not because I am judging them nor care what they do with their lives - or have some 'personal issue,' with their persona, and certainly not because I do not have flaws within myself, but because their mindsets have an air of toxicity for myself, and I do not need to be "around" them if I do not have to.

I know a few of these specimen(s) on the job; (&) they are slacky, and rather selfish at that. MANY specimens must do extra work; because they never complete theirs. Someone is cleaning their mess. This is not mean, it is a fact - and it shows in the end results.

Many specimens suffer from (ones incompetence); not just the "incompetent," specimen. In fact, they may never directly realize their impact [as they are never personally affected] via their own incompetencies -- however, I am only interested in being around specimens that recognize, take responsibility & wish to improve their incompetences; not for their 'inner self,' but because the world does not revolve around them -- and when they are late, we are all late.

And, indeed, indulging myself in 'getting to know them,' this mindset oozes out into other affairs as well; that they shrug-off their impact on the system AND others surrounding. That, they really are indifferent to their role/effects they project into the environment. Of course, they a nice people, many specimens are nice people, many I exchange laughs with, but that is as far as it goes.

What if the reason they are incompetent is not due to their technical ability but due to poor social skills, e.g. leading to them not getting the stakeholder support they need to implement a plan (and it is their job to implement the plan)?
I would suggest another job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,426 Posts
idk where the idea comes from that we're so super-hipped about competence. i do enjoy and respect it if it comes along in a collaboration kind of scenario, because i do love collaboration when it really swings. but to me it's a pretty odourless-tasteless-colourless kind of attribute when it comes to the making of actual friends.

with that said though, i guess i have two caveats. one is that i can still sustain friendliness, but i can''t really sustain a serious friendship with someone who's always straining my tact. i need freedom to feel authentic in order to build a friendship, and i just don't feel authentic if i'm constantly biting my tongue or gazing elsewhere so as not to notice something that's going to set me to biting my tongue.

the other is that i probably set my own expectations of individual people based on what i see/know about them. so my entire concept of competence is pretty relative - it's not about any external or me-comparison-based standards. it's more about what i think the person is capable of in themselves. so i can still like someone i see as having totally different strengths and temperament. but if i feel the person actually IS capable of doing better and they're just being lazy/sloppy/selfish/whatever, i'll cop a pretty hardcore kind of scunner to them.

and finally . . . yeah. i don't really make that many serious, genuine friends where i work anyway. working with someone is not hte same thing as talking to them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Since INTJs tend to value competence so highly, do you think you could be friends with someone who you thought was incompetent, e.g. at their job, even if you didn't have to work with them yourself?

What if the reason they are incompetent is not due to their technical ability but due to poor social skills, e.g. leading to them not getting the stakeholder support they need to implement a plan (and it is their job to implement the plan)?
Competence is a trait I delight on having within my friends' character. Being friends with an inept would be a rare occasion; because for me, incompetence brings not only inability, but also a weak character. People who can't accomplish simple work like being on time or finishing an elementary task provoke my disdain.
Same process for the unsophisticated, if they don't have the ability to apply their skills correctly, it would merely be a waste of time.

The exception would be that said person is incompetent for reasons out of their control AND they have a strong determination to improve.
Ergo, I'll be friends with someone incompetent as long as they decide to improve themselves to be less so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,699 Posts
Not INTJ, but stupid can be infuriating to deal with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Songs unsung

·
Banned
Joined
·
919 Posts
I have no problem with being friends with someone who is incompetent because.... am I competent at everything? Even if I am now... was I? No. Would I want someone to judge me on this and cross me out as a person? No.
There is more to a person than "competency". I am very concerned about it... when it comes to me ONLY.

In a working environment I might be harsher but it's about their attitude, not competency. Are they willing to learn? Do they learn on their mistakes? Are they aware? Are thy humble? It's all fine.
On the other hand if they think they know it all, deny or refuse to improve I won't respect them.
 

·
Registered
INFP
Joined
·
36 Posts
So I would have to ask how incompetent. If they're not personally affecting my work life then sure. People I could have remained on friendly terms with, had I not worked directly with them, get quickly relegated to my burn list the minute I do. If I've inherited them as a direct report then I find it my duty to help them as much as I can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
Doesn't it make you lose respect for people if they are not competent?
Yes, if they bask in it. If you're the type of person that doesn't want to learn or take responsibility for their actions, then I'm avoiding you like the plague. That has nothing to do with competence but personality traits I find questionable. I tend to not have respect for these people from the beginning and keep more distance than I usually would. If I'm proven right, then my attitude doesn't change but if I'm proven wrong then I'll stop being so judgmental.

Anything could be driving their poor results, so I don't completely write people off for that, especially if the person wants to be better. And like lily said, it's not like I'm friends with anyone from work, so I don't put that much emotion into it in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,168 Posts
At work, I see it as part of my job as a manager to help staff improve, so I actually act a little friendlier with those who are less competent. It is a lot easier to help someone overcome weaknesses if they trust you. Some of those people turn into actual friends.

If the person doesn't want to improve and it affects their job, I'll still be fairly friendly, but I stop investing effort and instead am thinking about work-arounds. I still might enjoy their company on a personal level, though. I mean, if someone is close to retirement and doesn't have the will to master the newest gadget, I get that. There is still plenty they can do.

There is lot in life that I don't know how to do, and some things that I will never be good at, no matter how I try. I think that is true for everyone. I'd rather focus on what a person can do instead of what they can't. That works out better for both of us.
 
1 - 20 of 61 Posts
Top