[Flowerpot92]

Can you give me examples of the "highly practical, cynical and bitter" ISFP ?

"Some ISFPs who are in the habit of not expressing their needs and feelings find themselves in situations throughout their life where they feel overshadowed, overlooked, or even "tread upon" by others. Highly practical and cynical by nature, these feelings may cause the ISFP to become bitter, and to either give up on their relationships, or to start using their relationships for their own personal gain. Although this problem is observed sometimes in the ISFP type, it does not seem to be present in those ISFPs who consistently express their feelings to those closest to them." (ISFP Relationships)

I have read this page over and over again and that bit doesn't make sense to me, and yet I imagine that if it's written on a website that is generally correct on most types, then it must be correct too. In that case, why have I never seen it? I have had an ISFP friend for 11 years, I have gone out and been friends with an ISFP for a year. I've never seen it. In fact, my biggest complain about the ISFPs in my life is that they sometimes have absent-minded opinions on things, but this goes hand in hand with their peaceful views on everything. How is that being cynical, bitter and practical?

Could you give me examples of ISFPs you know (or yourselves) who became all those things and why it happened?

 

[Bella2016]

I have read this page over and over again and that bit doesn't make sense to me, and yet I imagine that if it's written on a website that is generally correct on most types, then it must be correct too. In that case, why have I never seen it?

I'd say at least in part because they can share their feelings with you... so they aren't lacking people who will empathise with them or people they can trust.

 

[ferroequinologist]

I don't know any personally, and can't imagine any that I know acting like this. On the other hand, I can see one getting discouraged, and retreating into a shell, and avoiding relationships entirely. Also, I think that if that happened, their fear of others would cause them to project such an attitude. Also, I suspect (based on private things), that some types will view the iSFP's behavior in this way, whether it is true or not. I'm thinking particularly of strong Fe types, because they see us taking but never receiving in ethical/feeling-type interactions. To be honest, from our perspective, we also feel that they are doing all the taking and we are doing all the giving, which could, IMO, give rise to a situation where an ISFP may feel frustrated enough, especially in relationships where he or she may feel no exit, that the ISFP may, in time, begin to actually act the way the other is treating them, and be bitter, exploitative, etc. I would most expect to see such a thing these days in parent-child relationships, or other family relationships where there is no real possibility of breaking contact.

To return to my point above, as to why Fe feels Fi is taking, and visa versa. Think communication styles. Fe is very much "outward" and Fi is very much "inward" in their judging. This causes differences in communication styles. For instance, Fi feels rather uncomfortable asking questions of a feeling nature, such as "how do you feel about this?" So, in interactions, will avoid such questions. Rather than ask, the Fi type, when giving of himself to encourage, or whatnot, will share something of him or herself--offer themselves up on a platter, so to speak, possibly in terms like this, "I felt like <this> when <that> happened to me." The actual point of talking like this is _not_ to just talk about oneself, but to act as a catalyst to the other party to get them to open up themselves--because _asking_ feels so very intrusive, plus, what question would not hurt--you see, direct questions are uncomfortable-feeling--we don't want to inadvertently cause more unpleasant feelings, so we go about it in a round-about manner.

Fe, on the other hand, being outwardly focused, is much more eager to ask the other "How do you feel about <this>?" And not merely ask, but to be specific. And also, they can be quite persistent. Since I'm an Fi type, I don't really know what they are thinking or what motivates them, so I can't speak for them. However, I can say that in interactions with them, I have found that they can be totally oblivious about my attempts to help them by sharing about myself. So you get this sort of situation, where i share, and they ask, I answer, and they ask, and they are feeling totally unfulfilled in the interaction because I am not asking _them_ questions. To them, it's all entirely one-way. On the other hand, I feel like it's entirely one-way, because they never, ever open up themselves, and share of themselves. All they do is ask me intrusive questions, without ever opening up about themselves. Now, this doesn't happen so often, because I've learned that one should also ask questions, but then another problem arises. Because it is not something I feel comfortable with, my questions tend to be generic and very awkward, so despite my attempts to open up and ask horribly awkward questions, they still feel like I'm being reluctant, and not "open" enough for them...

In any case, to summarize for the tl;dr part, Fe can feel like Fi is very self-centered in interactions simply because of the differences in our communication styles. I sort of learned this stuff years ago, long before I heard of Fi and Fe--namely that some people need you to ask them--despite how awkward it is for me to do so. But honestly, when things get tight, and the tension mounts, I find it much harder, and may end up just shutting down, especially if, despite my efforts to help, they keep pushing, without any intention of sharing any of the responsibility for the conversation.

So, I think that this may actually play a role in the description you mentioned. Not, mind you, that an ISFP _couldn't_ act this way, but some of this, I think, simply stems from a misunderstanding of how strong Fi types interact and _need_ to interact. Push them out of their shell too much, and you get that explosion of Te with IFP types. I don't know what you EFP types do--disappear in introversion? I don't know, but push Fi too strong, and the response cannot be pretty...

 

[DewTheDrewby]

Hmm well we are pretty much sensors by nature so I could see "absent minded".

Doesn't everyone have bitterness?

 

[ravenlove]

If isfp's dont express themselves....what concerns them, speak up for themselves they can begin to feel trampled on......thus begins the negative patterns of thinking....cynisism, no one cares, what do I matter....etc.

 

[XZ9]

My ISFP cousin is so cynical and practical even if I ask them for advice for working for a fast food restaurant.

 

[Acadia]

I'm really on the fence with my type, and lately more and more people have been suggesting isfp.
I can be quite cynical and skeptical when there's been too much rapid fire change {normally, I love change}
But I think that can be true of any SP due to tertiary or inferior Ni. If your vision, however developed, does not go as planned, wouldn't it be normal to feel a little angsty?

 

[RK LK]

MEEEEEEEE!!!!!! :shocked:




:laughing:

Could you give me examples of ISFPs you know (or yourselves) who became all those things and why it happened?

An unattainable perfectionist attitude that leads to self-loathing tendencies for the most part.

 

[fadeaway]

Imagine being at work, and you see a colleague doing something, a process or a procedural task, and they aren't doing it in a way which you feel is the most beneficial for YOU (important part). It's not work policy to do it your way, but because in your head, you have planned every step in the process of completing the task, which you have perfected and are extremely proud of, and for some reason you aren't being matched in competence by your colleague when you review the task they undertook at a later date, then imagine feeling anger. That is an example, of an extremely practical, and bitter ISFP getting lost in really pointless methods.

For relationships- Imagine spending time with someone who can benefit you in a way, then acting in a way which subconsciously pushes them away with no choice. The distance created between the relationship isn't confrontational, but it's emotional disconnect, so the ISFP leaves the situation unscathed. Without actually realising they were taking the necessary steps to end the relationship, they have already done it, and can feel the effect of that behavior in new encounters. Personally, I can sort of tell when relationships will stagnate and go bad now, just from looking at the past and having this 'feeling'. I always look at my failed relationships, and can pin point 10001 emotional reasons for its destruction.

This whole post is rather cynical, and fuck you?

 

[romanticparadox]

This is actually happen to me, and yes, having a friend who would understand (or act like they understand) really helps.
On the contrary, having family members or colleague who refused to listen, don't want to understand drives an ISFP into a hermit mode. Preferring to be alone, with no one to share the burdens with - because they can't afford an additional bad feelings of not being listened beside the problem itself.
Besides, I read somewhere, inferior Te made it hard to express things through verbal communications, if that is proven to be true. Therefore, if an ISFP don't keep learning to verbalise their feelings, it can be hard for them to share anything on their mind, and I think it's somewhat unhealthy.

 

[joanajamolin01]

ISFP's are the literal definition of 0 to 100...
I feel like I've become like this. I feel like isfp's main reason for living is to "survive" the basic principle in life, it's too complicated to think that "What is the meaning and my purpose in life?" the answer is simple, just like all the animals....you lived? Did you ask for this? Nah, but you're here, so live through with it and survive, then you die, it's just a simple cycle.

I feel like the main reason why I've come to this state is that I stopped trusting people, I've set up my boundaries (probs pretty high HAHA, that there's no single person I've let it) ...I can't handle being vulnerable and open to other people anymore. I have no one who I call "Home". I don't see it as entirely sad, it's just....I feel like ISFP's are too accepting and sensitive. We accept other people way too much, that "unconsciously" we expect other people, or we seek for someone who will accept us for who we are too, because that's just fair..., no matter what we do....no matter what choices we make...that there's good in us because they know our capability because they know the extent of what's immoral for us. I still socialize with people, I still have my "friends" they don't notice anything much of a difference, but for me there is....I just know that I need people, I need connections to survive in this world, since it's helpful and practical. But as said, I shouldn't take it deep and personal, just an arm length.

Maybe because ISFP never judges. They literally don't care...don't give a fuck- hence, there's no line for judgment right? I have no moral compass, I have no belief of what is truly right nor wrong, all I have is reasons and consequences. Another reason is, sfp's superego is NTP, (I'm talking about social engineer).

 

[Phil]

Maybe because ISFP never judges.

I'm not sure if that's entirely true.

 

[Flabarac Brupip]

I'm not sure if that's entirely true.

Its not. I know I judge, and I don't even think I'm that unhealthy.

 

[Flabarac Brupip]

I always thought my bitterness and cynicism is more because I'm a 6w5.

 

[Inveniet]

I always thought my bitterness and cynicism is more because I'm a 6w5.

Yeah people fail to remember that the Jungian type has an Enneagram type attached.
Whatever baggage there is on such a level, will be expressed nicely there.
From the OPs words the Enneagram of such a "bitter" ISFP could be many things.
Personally I'm probably a 5w4 9w8 2w1 Sx/Sp.
That combo combined with my experiences gave me plenty of bitterness towards the world.

As a child I was just like people like to describe ISFPs, but now I'm more on the cold cynical side.
I was even more bitter before, I've managed to deal with some of my baggage,
but I have enough bad experiences to draw on to chill any conversation should I wish to.
People are dynamic and can change when the world force them to.
I think many would label me as an INTJ to avoid dealing with the dark shit that mar their innocent picture of ISFPs.