Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Personally I am extremely bad at this.
Even though I am extremely confident on an intellectual level,when it comes to emotions,I have HUGE defense mechanisms whether I want that or not.Every social situation that has the danger of humiliation or rejection on a personal level makes me feel a huge need to avoid it (especially dating).
For example I don't mind explaining my logical opinion to a university professor in front of 150 people and being proven wrong cause I feel like logic is an impersonal tool.
On the other hand when I am interacting with people on a more personal every-day way,I am extremely careful and reserved xD Usually in places like school that has a lot of people,my Fi gets so secretive that I appear like a complete Te user which is not a bad thing but it is really not how I am inside..(that usually happens with my dates as well.My Fi feels very threatened by rejection that it literally closes 100% and Te works alone).I can usually only truly open up and be myself with people when I am with only a few people and I already know them well/like them/feel understood by them.
Sometimes I think that INTJs are so externally cold,logical and introverted just because they are so sensitive that they can't handle letting people in/getting hurt.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
BRING IT ON! It's freeing.
You have to be kidding me.

I'm kind of interested what there is in a person, once the layers are one.

For me, I felt a bit happier once I decided I'd never have anything to do with private, sneaking, secret concepts. IMHO one of the many perverse legacies of the Anglo-Protestant culture which dominates anglophone US and Canada.

So, what other layers can there be?

I'm asking because I've never felt so vulnerable as here on this board, among a bunch of strangers, and I've never considered there could be something to my essence that might exist that I could or would feel like inspecting. You know, with some qualities and each of those qualities have magnitudes that can be mapped onto some planes of time, so forth. No, I'll cut you off right there -- that's mainstream possible-world semantics. It's like the A+1=1 of how your telephone works.

Well, anyway, what's the deal?

I've felt vulnerable before, and it felt like a nightmare to do bing Teasic things like confront the world for ridiculous things -- anxiety, I guess. Se down. Way down. Had to build it up, recognize Fi worked with Se, use Te to bring it under control, pretty simple task but not when you work at it 24x7. Conceptually simple, but hard work.

Maybe I'm a greedy man, but I'd like to know more. I probably can't help -- I'm a standard-issue jackass -- and you probably wouldn't want it, but maybe it's good for future anthropologists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
Yes, with the right people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dare

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
Why one? There are many layers, you're just in control of what you want to reveal to whom. You can discover that you have even more layers. You can't do it when you're afraid to do it. You're hiding it from yourself. You think you have control but you don't. Just barriers.

I'd compare it to wood. Hard wood is not the strongest wood. It will snap when you bend it. You need elasticity.
Yeah, I think I was trying to be funny, but I don't remember. Can't win them all.

As in: pretend there are some layers. As you say, it doesn't really work. I thought that was what I was trying to say as well.

Meh, I don't know. Maybe whatserface is right, just obfuscating language trying to pretend or evade responsibility, I don't know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
That's because you have a strong ego. The ego is the thing that claims credit on everything that you've done. It is also the thing that denies weakness and blames others for your failures. You can practice "diminishing the ego". Basically, whenever you get rejected, or something minor like losing in some video game, don't defend the ego and let it hurt. The opposite applies for taking credit. Whenever you want to tell other people about your achievements, stop yourself. Diminish the ego from both fronts.

Let failure be an opportunity for personal growth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,264 Posts
I don't suffer from social anxiety. I feel no vulnerability in social settings. I don't fear rejection. My reoccurring problem with people is (my) disappointment/boredom. There is a large disparity between the depth I need and the depth others can offer. I effectively seek more vulnerability. With a romantic partner who can go there, I welcome it. I find the risk/'realness'/rawness/connection exhilarating.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,042 Posts
I don't suffer from social anxiety. I feel no vulnerability in social settings. I don't fear rejection. My reoccurring problem with people is (my) disappointment/boredom. There is a large disparity between the depth I need and the depth others can offer. I effectively seek more vulnerability. With a romantic partner who can go there, I welcome it. I find the risk/'realness'/rawness/connection exhilarating.
MISTYPED! jk

 
How much did you stalk me before coming to this mindset?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dare

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,424 Posts
Personally I am extremely bad at this.
lol. i don't like it, but i've learned that trying to evade [most of] it is kind of non-conducive to long-term dignity. or long-term anything worthwhile, really. i was monster defensive when i was just starting out as an adult - basically once i was out of high school and operating on my supposed own recognizance at university and so forth.

what i realised eventually, since i'm so smart that way, was that i wasn't fooling many people. or not as many as i wanted to be. and i wasn't doing myself any favours either. i had this entire sprawling shanty-town structure of presentation-facets built up around me, like the outskirts of mexico city or something. and it was kind of like each one was a little six-by-eight deflective shield put in place to - well, deflect attention to some specific personal thing or other. they didn't hang together. they didn't make logical sense. they weren't contiguous or coherent to the outside eye, and of course there's the fact that most of it was just reflex or conditioning, so it wasn't 'me' in any way. and we all know how useless the 'acceptance' you gain by not being you is.

point just being that i think what 'saved' me was pure stubbornness. i went a little bravado, kind of. and a little bit pissed and a lot of logic. so i feel x or y, and so what? so i think q, or i'm not into z, or this or that has happened to me and it's not within your realm of experience and you wouldn't get it if i were to speak about it - and so what? i felt like i'd wasted a hell of a lot of time trying to pre-emptively deflect opinions and reactions that, in the big scheme of things, simply didn't matter.

that's not really a solution to vulnerability, of course. it's just a raising of the threshold, but fwiw i did start to think that a lot of this was ridiculous on my part and semi-ridiculous on the part of other people who weren't able to expand their own little mental gene pool to make room for a person like me. goethe's quote helped me a lot. something like 'there's nothing human that i can't imagine my own self doing'. thinking about that gave me a sort of yardstick or filter, which helped with not internalizing every single little reaction from somebody else.

i think brene brown is a simple-minded fool, btw. just thought i would get that in there. b4 and all that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ukulele

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,042 Posts
I expect the distance between an INTJish ENTJ and an ENTJish INTJ (both SX) isn't that great.
What about the distance between ENTJish INTJ and INTJish ENTJ who is also INTPish ENTJ? I mean, you don't always come across ENTJs who willingly get a C grade in GCE finals just to make a reeeaaallly dank meme in the blank space given for logic circuits.

Sometimes enneagram, despite being farther from science, is more accurate than mbti. I feel like (feel?? ENTJ?! Nanniii??!!!!!) enneagram gives a better picture of people as they really are while mbti does a better job at portraying how people are in front of others. My INTJ friend looks pretty INTJ-ish, what with all his nerdery and intellectual aloofness. It was once I got close enough to him that I found out his inner yearning, which betrayed his INTJ facade and showed only 4w5 sx/so. The quotes he randomly sends me and his pet plea, 'Find me a Shams!!' (Shams Tabriz -- mystic guy responsible for setting Rumi free; a mentor basically), are difficult to reconcile with the fact of his being INTJ. Yet he is that, and he couldn't be anything else. The way he disregards social norms to the point of even refusing to do assignments the way professors specify only because their way is inefficient is only something an NTJ can pull off.

I've had a similar experience with an ENTJ type 8 who everyone hates and sometimes I want to punch him in the face too (got veeery close one day) only to relent at the last moment remembering what's burning inside him. I still don't approve of his ways and for all intents and purposes, I'd advice people to stay away from him but the conversations I had with him with the hypothesis 'He is a 8w7 sx' in my head went deeper than I'd liked to have went.

We might just close this thread with: How well you handle vulnerability depends on your instinctual type.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,378 Posts
Whenever you want to tell other people about your achievements, stop yourself.
I was with you up until this part. There's nothing wrong with reveling in success just as it's equally correct to learn from failure. Why shouldn't a person feel a sense of accomplishment from their achievement as long as it was earned fairly? This quasi-Spartan philosophy of "austerity" can be psychologically damaging when it traipses into the dark territory of pathological altruism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLCR

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
That's because you have a strong ego. The ego is the thing that claims credit on everything that you've done. It is also the thing that denies weakness and blames others for your failures. You can practice "diminishing the ego". Basically, whenever you get rejected, or something minor like losing in some video game, don't defend the ego and let it hurt. The opposite applies for taking credit. Whenever you want to tell other people about your achievements, stop yourself. Diminish the ego from both fronts.

Let failure be an opportunity for personal growth.
I don't believe that you get the right idea of my situation but ok.
I actually totally understand that I have weaknesses and I always blame myself when things go wrong. I just don't feel comfortable showing my feelings to people and don't like being seen feeling rejected/vulnerable etc.I never really care about talking about my achievements either lmao.It's probably also related to ego in some way but isn't everything related to our ego?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
"Can you handle vulnerability?"
--Sure. Ineptly. Wildly. Poorly.

Kevin Mulligan said:
Abelard gives a similar example. A young student comes to see that logic is the heart ofr philosophy and therefore the most valuable part of philosophy. After discovering his inability to do logic, he declares, apparently quite sincerely, that in philosophy rhetoric is more important than logic. The fox [of the fox and the grapes] and the student are victims of the mechanism of ressentiment and to that extent fools.
I'm editing to add, after re-reading this thread, the full citation of Mulligan's essay. I believe I also cited it in the quote thread, but this morning I realized what an important, if small, perhaps, contribution Kevin Mulligan made in his essay, as I noted elsewhere, partly published elsewhere.

Yeah, so my arms are getting tired, but the essay is in Leo Zaibert's kind-of-Festschrift devoted to Barry Smith, called *The Theory and Practice of Ontology*. Published last year, I think Springer verlag is the INt'l house for it.

For those who don't know about realist phenomenology, and applied logic in general, it came to my attention that there's been, in the past ten years, a good attempt to bring some of Ingarden's *Der Streit* into English. I haven't examined the translation, but like some of my non-ween cohort, I bothered to read the three volume work, and I have nothing but contempt for people who think that people like Barry Smith, Ruth Barcan Marcus, and many others should have been dismissed so cavalierly for their modest proposal.

I'm also EETA that I acknowledge my last addition sounds fucking nuts, and, well...to me that's a problem. I just feel strongly about the subject, but obviously not strongly enough that I've contributed to the field. Meh whatever. I'm just some guy, and I hope I don't become a caracature of some old fuck writing letters, and maybe yoou people can just let me be here and try not to be such an asshole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
1:1 I'm ok, but when there are other people around I have great difficulty. Even if I am in a room with one person but knowing there is someone else in the apartment next door I can't, I just cannot. Eventually, it will just have to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,264 Posts
Sometimes enneagram, despite being farther from science, is more accurate than mbti. I feel like (feel?? ENTJ?! Nanniii??!!!!!) enneagram gives a better picture of people as they really are while mbti does a better job at portraying how people are in front of others.
I agree that enneagram, especially tritype + instinct, is the more powerful tool between the two. Being a 5w4 SX with a strong 1w9 influence and a bit of 3w4 belies my nature far more than 'INTJ'. I'm also more likely to get along with someone with any combination of 5, 4, 1, 9 + SX than I am any (random) INTJ. Although remarkable in one way, I was still left slightly dissatisfied by INTJ descriptions when I first read them. MBTI + enneagram is far better. I don't care that enneagram is even less well regarded than MBTI -- it works, it's useful.

My INTJ friend looks pretty INTJ-ish, what with all his nerdery and intellectual aloofness. It was once I got close enough to him that I found out his inner yearning, which betrayed his INTJ facade and showed only 4w5 sx/so. The quotes he randomly sends me and his pet plea, 'Find me a Shams!!' (Shams Tabriz -- mystic guy responsible for setting Rumi free; a mentor basically), are difficult to reconcile with the fact of his being INTJ. Yet he is that, and he couldn't be anything else. The way he disregards social norms to the point of even refusing to do assignments the way professors specify only because their way is inefficient is only something an NTJ can pull off.
He's not the only Rumi fan who does that on assignments :) I can see why the two of you get along.

We might just close this thread with: How well you handle vulnerability depends on your instinctual type.
Yep.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top