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My dating experience includes (these are broad generalisations of course):
xNFP: Suffocating, effeminate men who make me feel like the “man” in the relationship. (I have dated one ENFP guy for a year, who came out as gay shortly after I broke it off (because I thought he was gay))
xNTP: Take much too long to “get things going”. By the time they ask me out, I have had the time to fall in and out of love with them. If for whatever reason I give it a chance, the pace of the relationship is so slow, raising insecurities in myself (which I am working on). I have dated one INTP guy for a year – he decided he loved me once I broke up with him but for me it was over by then.
INTJ: Most amazing chemistry to date, but few and far between. Only dated INTJ for short periods.

I’m ready for a relationship however I’ve had a gutsful of online dating which is where I’ve met most men as I’m new to town. Typically, as I get to know men well as a friends, they fall hard for me (both xNTP and xNFP) so it’s not like I’m undesirable. This is also where I feel I may have most success meeting men organically instead of online, “for the purpose of dating”.

Questions:
-Feedback I have received from friends and men has been two folds: I either come off as an “ice queen” (leading to men ignoring me) or “very obviously interested” (leading to men trying to use me for attention, s*x, whatever…). I really struggle to be “just friends” with a guy I’m attracted to – any advice on how to keep my cool?
-What hobbies could I develop / places could I go to start socialising with likeminded men (I live in a large city but am not into drinking / pubs and clubs)
-I work in a male dominant industry however have been told I’m very intimidating by some of the guys I would be interested in at work. Any advice on how to deal with this? If your advice is to soften my attitude – how do I do this without becoming a doormat (aka I have tried this with one ENTP at work and he’s just using me for attention now)?

I’m due for a new pet project and am willing to invest quite a significant amount of time on this so would love to see if you can relate and / or hear your advice on how you may have achieved this yourself?
 

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Always socialise in a group of a dozen or so, then you can watch the guys interacting with everyone and observe and compare them.
Ballroom dancing is a good hobby for meeting and socialising because it's a weekly meeting with a purpose, but has opportunities to meet and approach lots of different and new people but also can give you time to develop and cultivate friendships if you like people. Tends to have bigger social events such as balls every few months as well. If you come across as not traditionally feminine, at least dancing has traditional male and female roles which will mask that part of your nature to some extent. But any weekly group would do. Choose what matters to you, whether church, hobby, events, theatre, get into a mixed group who do something definite and regular. Make friends of both sexes and then encourage everyone to go out and eat together ... Then observe. Filter for your values and for qualities and abilities which will help you raise kids together if that's your end goal. Someone you'd like to spend time with.

Don't be a doormat as in letting everyone else have their way but do be polite by which I mean continuing to make your points respectfully, insisting on being heard but not by shouting nor nagging. Watch TED talks by women, not for what they say but for how they say it, for example.
 

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OP: A few pointers that maybe able to assist you in your quest:

1. Identify your critical values (For what I mean values that you will not compromise in any way). In my opinion, no relationship with an INTJ can survive if the both of you do not have similar critical values. INTJs simply stand like a rock. So find out early on if your potential partner is on similar page as you are, or you're just squandering your time and energy into an uncertain future.

2. Draw a picture of yourself, figuratively. Give yourself honest marks on all subject matter in terms of how good you are being a partner. Be honest. Give your partner/date marks based upon the same criteria as well. We INTJs generally are at best do not give others enough credit and at worst be too quick to judge. Don't write somebody off so quickly.


Good luck!
 

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Poppycock. This idea that we (INTJ females, NT females generally), should 'soften' ourselves to attract a mate. a) be yourself, b) you can't change/hide who you are anyway and c) being 'not soft' is precisely the way you should be to attract the right partner for you. I hear you on dating men who end up putting you in the man role. But rather than 'soften' just find the man who is relatively, well, yeah, not soft. Needle in the haystack, I know but it is what it is in that way. You probably should let go of the idea that you can date like the 'average' woman. And remember it runs both ways. While you sit there wondering if there is a man who can handle you being you there is a frustrated man out there looking for a strong intelligent type who has had it with 'soft' women who are too different from him.

Similarly I think you should find a hobby that you really enjoy rather than doing it to meet men. Let things happen organically. I naturally enjoy doing a few things and the guy I'm now in a r/ship with just happens to enjoy doing those same things and now we do those things together. One of the things that my guy found attractive is how enthusiastic I get and how my eyes sparkle when I talk about what I do. It's sweet that you're thinking in the way you are but you have to live for you (and ironically you attract a better mate with this attitude).

How did I find my Mr Not Soft? My ass. I wish I was kidding. That's how he noticed me. He was the charming type I was suspicious of but he never gave up and over time I learned that he was actually a serious person who had been frustrated bc he only likes very strong, intelligent, 'feminine' women and having finally found me he was not going to let me go without giving it everything he had. The take away from this story is take care of yourself physically and dress well (meaning stylish clothes that are well fitted nothing um, let's say 'cheap' looking). I don't eat carbs and exercise hard 4x a week. The saying about men being visual creatures is more often very true than not so that is one way to put in effort.

As far as keeping your cool. Just assume that they are all up to no good and make them prove that's not true. I tell myself that I won't really know someone until I've known them a year and won't know how the dynamic of the r/ship is until we've been dating for 6 months. It's easy to get carried away but you can control it by telling yourself not to do the halo effect. I find staying focused on myself rather than on him in the infatuation period helps (meaning being the best I can be, read up about men's needs in a relationship for example, keep things interesting like plan a picnic, take extra care of myself etc rather than obsessing helps -- more doing less thinking/imagining).

I learned to stick with the rationals (INTP/ENTP/INTJ/ENTJ), much more likely to have shared views/values and to be of our kind in terms of intellectual/rational etc. I find them more tolerant of the NT female also (some even like us :). It sounds like you're willing to write off the 'P's (mine is an ENTP for what it's worth). That would take you down to roughly 3-4% of the population I believe. Nothing wrong with that, just be aware it's a numbers game at that point. Allowing for age and preferences both ways you could expect to need to meet at least 500 men to find a compatible one. Best be familiar with how to identify a male INTJ from afar and where they most likely are (same for ENTJs if you're open to the idea). Let your friends know you're looking for a reserved intellectual masculine type or however you think would best describe him (keep it to three adjectives or less so they remember).

One thing that might help. I had the list of desired characteristics in priority order knowing that I would not be flexible on the top ten and would be flexible beyond that. I think this was one of the best things I did bc the man of my dreams didn't resemble the idea I had in my head. I had imagined a tall reserved man. My SO is a slightly shorter, charming extrovert. But he has every one of those ten character qualities and we have an unusually good relationship. I also, somewhat foolishly now that I think back on it, had this idea that since I needed a person who was his own man so to speak, I expected him to look very manly man. Good thing I had my list. Even if a certain look is in your top ten, the list still keeps your head straight when infatuation begins. The other nice thing about my list is that it's effectively a list of what I personally value and respect and so naturally I value and respect my SO.

It also helps to think about the r/ship dynamic you want. If you want more traditional roles where the man is the man (judging by your displeasure at men putting you in that role) be careful how you're coming across at the outset. One thing I noticed when I read you post was that you are do, do, do. You're all about what can I do. I get it. I'm all about being capable and getting stuff done myself. BUT (that was the big but) the men that are most attracted to us doers are the little boys in adult bodies looking for Mommy, entitled narcissists who want everyone else to do for them and men who have more of a 'feminine' type of nature and are looking for a protector or at least someone who will put his feelings first.

Sounds like your ENTP at work is one of these in addition to your ENFP ex so you're already attracting them. Problem. Worse when you consider that whatever doing behaviors are attracting these guys may be putting off more masculine men who do not want someone who takes on that role. We (NT females looking to be in the feminine role) must advertise ourselves correctly: we are capable doers but we do for ourselves, we do not do for our man. We will nuture and give back inside a r/ship where he gives but we won't be the driving doer. Put simply, he takes care of you and you do so only in return and never more than he's given you. Ugh, I wish someone had of told me that as a teen, it would have saved myself a lot of trouble with an ENFP and an INFJ I dated (hence my move to NTs only).

That cliche about true love and you know it when you've got it. Totally true for me. Don't settle.

Obviously I relate so if you have any questions, feel free.

Good luck
 

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My dating experience includes (these are broad generalisations of course):
xNFP: Suffocating, effeminate men who make me feel like the “man” in the relationship. (I have dated one ENFP guy for a year, who came out as gay shortly after I broke it off (because I thought he was gay))
xNTP: Take much too long to “get things going”. By the time they ask me out, I have had the time to fall in and out of love with them. If for whatever reason I give it a chance, the pace of the relationship is so slow, raising insecurities in myself (which I am working on). I have dated one INTP guy for a year – he decided he loved me once I broke up with him but for me it was over by then.
INTJ: Most amazing chemistry to date, but few and far between. Only dated INTJ for short periods.

I’m ready for a relationship however I’ve had a gutsful of online dating which is where I’ve met most men as I’m new to town. Typically, as I get to know men well as a friends, they fall hard for me (both xNTP and xNFP) so it’s not like I’m undesirable. This is also where I feel I may have most success meeting men organically instead of online, “for the purpose of dating”.

Questions:
-Feedback I have received from friends and men has been two folds: I either come off as an “ice queen” (leading to men ignoring me) or “very obviously interested” (leading to men trying to use me for attention, s*x, whatever…). I really struggle to be “just friends” with a guy I’m attracted to – any advice on how to keep my cool?
-What hobbies could I develop / places could I go to start socialising with likeminded men (I live in a large city but am not into drinking / pubs and clubs)
-I work in a male dominant industry however have been told I’m very intimidating by some of the guys I would be interested in at work. Any advice on how to deal with this? If your advice is to soften my attitude – how do I do this without becoming a doormat (aka I have tried this with one ENTP at work and he’s just using me for attention now)?

I’m due for a new pet project and am willing to invest quite a significant amount of time on this so would love to see if you can relate and / or hear your advice on how you may have achieved this yourself?
Not an INTJ, but I hope you won't mind if I contribute my two cents. I totally agree with @Luck that you shouldn't compromise who you are to attract someone, because honestly, who you really are will show up anyway. When this happens, your partner's reaction will be unpredictable: they might feel like you've been hiding who you really are (which in a way you will have) and bolt, or they might know you well enough to be able to accept it. Either way, I don't think it's the best approach, and your partner will probably not appreciate the somewhat dishonesty associated with it. Not really a good way to start a relationship.

What I do want to point out, though, is how you approach a relationship in the very beginning will determine who is the "man" in the relationship very early on, because there is a psychology behind it. If you take the reins at the very beginning by initiating the relationship and pursuing him, you will by default be in charge and have taken the man's role in the relationship. When a relationship starts out this way, the man would have to somehow usurp your position to then take the man's position, but why would a guy do that when you're doing all the work for him? Letting him do the pursuing and initiation will change the tone of the relationship from the very start and carry through the rest of the relationship, or at least the chances will be greater that this will be the case.

Going along these lines, maybe it would be worth examining what you've done in the past in your relationships that has made you either actively or by default the one who plays the man's role. If you aren't letting your partner be the man, then he won't be.

I hope none of this sounds accusative, because you didn't really provide any details about how you are in relationships, so I don't really know. It's something I've read about before, though, that seems to be a common issue that women run into now that women seem to be the ones initiating relationships more often.

I hope this is helpful! :)
 

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Thanks for all the replies above!

I want to meet guys while doing things I am interested. However, I am too cerebral. I am interested in discussions about life, but it has to offer pragmatic solution so this will leave out philosophy and spiritual groups. I can only attend science and psychology groups to meet like-minded people. However, these groups are minorities. They don't meet more than once a month if I can find a group in my area. Even if I do attend their meetings, they are usually workshops that no one talks during meeting, or most attendees are older population.

Here comes the question: How do I meet a middle age scientist like-minded partner who is also looking for a date? People normally don't exchange contact information during science lectures.
 

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"xNTP: Take much too long to “get things going”. By the time they ask me out, I have had the time to fall in and out of love with them."

I can totally related to this. I dated an INTP guy on and off for a couple of years. He fell in love with me on the first sight, though. However, another INTP guy I recently met was so indecisive for over a month so I gave him up. I don't want to push him into relationship that will put me in the male role, and him won't treat me as nicely as he would to his prey. I now suspect that INTP I dated before is an INTP/J cuz he moved into relationship quick.
 

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"I’ve had a gutsful of online dating which is where I’ve met most men as I’m new to town."

Exactly. Most guys online are just looking for random encounters or friends with benefit. One guy I met online already moved to his area for a year, but still claimed to be new in town, and just wanted to make new friends. That was the line those guys used to make friends with benefits. Plus, he even lied about his age. I did a criminal background check on him to find out he had a rape charge 5 years ago. Sigh... you can never trust people online with random fake information.

I am going to meetups to meet new friends now. Still, I am not happy with the quality of guys in most meetups. They are usually introverted perceivers who don't have serious business going on career-wise in their life.
 

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My dating experience includes (these are broad generalisations of course):
xNFP: Suffocating, effeminate men who make me feel like the “man” in the relationship. (I have dated one ENFP guy for a year, who came out as gay shortly after I broke it off (because I thought he was gay))
xNTP: Take much too long to “get things going”. By the time they ask me out, I have had the time to fall in and out of love with them. If for whatever reason I give it a chance, the pace of the relationship is so slow, raising insecurities in myself (which I am working on). I have dated one INTP guy for a year – he decided he loved me once I broke up with him but for me it was over by then.
INTJ: Most amazing chemistry to date, but few and far between. Only dated INTJ for short periods.

I’m ready for a relationship however I’ve had a gutsful of online dating which is where I’ve met most men as I’m new to town. Typically, as I get to know men well as a friends, they fall hard for me (both xNTP and xNFP) so it’s not like I’m undesirable. This is also where I feel I may have most success meeting men organically instead of online, “for the purpose of dating”.

Questions:
-Feedback I have received from friends and men has been two folds: I either come off as an “ice queen” (leading to men ignoring me) or “very obviously interested” (leading to men trying to use me for attention, s*x, whatever…). I really struggle to be “just friends” with a guy I’m attracted to – any advice on how to keep my cool?
-What hobbies could I develop / places could I go to start socialising with likeminded men (I live in a large city but am not into drinking / pubs and clubs)
-I work in a male dominant industry however have been told I’m very intimidating by some of the guys I would be interested in at work. Any advice on how to deal with this? If your advice is to soften my attitude – how do I do this without becoming a doormat (aka I have tried this with one ENTP at work and he’s just using me for attention now)?

I’m due for a new pet project and am willing to invest quite a significant amount of time on this so would love to see if you can relate and / or hear your advice on how you may have achieved this yourself?
Hey you, finally seeing your romantic life on the right forum. What happened to ENTPnorth?
 

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Poppycock. This idea that we (INTJ females, NT females generally), should 'soften' ourselves to attract a mate. a) be yourself, b) you can't change/hide who you are anyway and c) being 'not soft' is precisely the way you should be to attract the right partner for you.
Yeah, this is the ideal. I think real life goes very differently for most of us INTJ females. Realistically, we have all the time and resources in the world to wait/find our ideal match who accepts us for being possibly a little more masculine or less feminine. But I think loneliness gets real too, and sometimes, people get on in their age and want a family so have to settle for less. And sometimes, settling for less means doing all those wrong things we would prefer not to do.
 

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Yeah, this is the ideal. I think real life goes very differently for most of us INTJ females. Realistically, we have all the time and resources in the world to wait/find our ideal match who accepts us for being possibly a little more masculine or less feminine. But I think loneliness gets real too, and sometimes, people get on in their age and want a family so have to settle for less. And sometimes, settling for less means doing all those wrong things we would prefer not to do.
Perhaps you're right, in which case thank you for reminding me how lucky I am.

Having said that, I like to believe that the 2:1 NT male to NT female ratio is in our favor or at least not out of balance (once allowing for the fact that some NT men prefer Fs).
 

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this is classic
an INTJ asking other INTJ's on how to meet people
:laughing:
eh stop being mean haha

hear your advice on how you may have achieved this yourself?
Get on social media and fire away until someone pops up. and by fire away I mean post the most fake un-INTJ stuff available(pictures, quotes etc). Or just throw the P*SSY and see who wants to catch.
 

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this is classic
an INTJ asking other INTJ's on how to meet people
:laughing:
Considering the general extro advice seems to be "Show skin, hang out in bars/tindr, become STD container" I think this is a mighty finer sight.


Get on social media and fire away until someone pops up. and by fire away I mean post the most fake un-INTJ stuff available(pictures, quotes etc). Or just throw the P*SSY and see who wants to catch.
If this is a joke it's kind of in poor taste. This is exactly what you Don't Want To Do.

If you want a like minded companion, you could simply go to places with people with your own interests.
Meetup.com seems to be fairly clean (basically a portal of interest "clubs" ) You can look around pursue local meetings that are connected to your own interests (You mentioned reading quite a bit) . Don't see the people that come across your path as potential mates, just get to know them as people. See it as a chance to make like-minded friends rather than looking for marriage and what not. Rushing this stuff rarely leads to anything positive.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OMG thank you so much for an amazing post – I wish I could double like it!
While you sit there wondering if there is a man who can handle you being you there is a frustrated man out there looking for a strong intelligent type who has had it with 'soft' women who are too different from him.
Interesting and I agree. I have found that I mostly meet “soft” men who are looking for mothers to organise their bills though. I need to stop that.

It is in fact MBTI that made me realise that I’m a little odd, but some people like that and I should stop hiding it as that makes me seem inconsistent. And that’s worst then being weird.

Similarly I think you should find a hobby that you really enjoy rather than doing it to meet men. Let things happen organically. I naturally enjoy doing a few things and the guy I'm now in a r/ship with just happens to enjoy doing those same things and now we do those things together
What are these things? Maybe it will give me ideas! Look I completely agree. I don’t have “hobbies”. My last project was improving my eating habits for health reasons (which took place completely at home) and my next project is sorting out my finances (for which I need no help, just research on the internet). I would like to take paddle boarding lessons or something that will enable me to socialise but still enjoy what I’m doing even if I meet no one.

meaning stylish clothes that are well fitted
I could use some help here! I have a great wardrobe for work but my weekend style consists of lululemon and a couple pairs of jeans…must add this to the to do list…

It's easy to get carried away but you can control it by telling yourself not to do the halo effect. I find staying focused on myself rather than on him in the infatuation period helps
Another big one. I really struggle here. I need to work on keeping it cool. Once I learn their MBTI for example, I start researching them like a maniac (slight exaggeration but you get the idea) and then try to influence the outcome whereby they probably liked me just the way I was! Hahaha I like your logic of 12 months and 6 months. So would you not consider dating men who you’d known for less than 12 months?

I learned to stick with the rationals (INTP/ENTP/INTJ/ENTJ)
Agree

It sounds like you're willing to write off the 'P's (mine is an ENTP for what it's worth). That would take you down to roughly 3-4% of the population I believe.
Statistically, I would be a fool to do this. I guess I would consider a man with a weak P? I mean the other option is that of course, if I meet a P I’m not completely into and I get to know him for a year and then he asks me out, that could work.

Best be familiar with how to identify a male INTJ
Hahaha this is hilarious – what do they look like?! The two I met / dated where rather tall, lean, and had attractive faces without being 10s…..wear a short beard easily…

I’m pretty flexible with looks though – this has never been a priority.

It’s interesting what you say about being DO, DO, DO. A parallel to this is I’ve taken a backseat to conversations with every man I’ve recently been in touch with. I figured one may keep in touch….NorthENTP has come out of the woodwork and made consistent contact. This INTP I met a while ago keeps popping through. I think perhaps if I gave men more opportunities they would take a leadership role. This requires for me to keep my cool though….something I need to figure out how to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey you, finally seeing your romantic life on the right forum. What happened to ENTPnorth?
He's on holiday for two weeks - back I'm not sure when. He's in touch and I'm not ruling him out but he's still a bit hot and cold so I thought I would devise a plan to not end up alone on my backside again.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Okay, but have you seen the guy face to face yet??
Sorry we seem to be posting at the same time.

No I have not met him. I have further evidence that he is who he says he is but yes, no meet so I'm not holding my breath. I'm also no initiating a meeting.
 
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