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I would like to know if any other INFJs, INTJs, other Ni users or just others in general have experienced something similar to this:

I’ve been thinking about how Ni is mainly dubbed a mysterious, subconscious function by some sources and people. And how, it’s very much unlikely you will ever get to see Ni actually at work and synthesizing all the data (even though a lot of us are/may be fully aware of it).

But… Several times now, actually no– this morning I can tell you this. I can recall going into my kitchen and cracking myself my three eggs into a bowl for breakfast. And to my almost “shallow” surprise (since I don’t really get surprised… i get excited, maybe?), I SAW images in my mind of… basically, chunks and clusters of stuff/data, and flowing strings crowding around a central point (looked similar to DNA imo). Segments of what I would assume as “information” were moving in and out like a crazy maniac puzzle or rubix cube, and in a way, all the “chunks” were almost transparent and fluid in nature that it all COULD pass through into and out of each other. And they did. Everything was quickly racing around, associating and disassociating, until…

Now, pardon me for admitting I actually don’t remember what exactly I was thinking about before that brief image. Lol But I suddenly had an urge to go on Youtube and research the Mandela Effect. :confused: I forgot to put my eggs into the oven to poach. Not that this was the huge result of whatever the image in my mind was showing to me, but I really feel over the past months my mental processes have been updating me on actual “images/visions” on what’s GOING ON in there. Lol Before when I would zone out, I would see virtually nothing and then just get an “…oh!” out of nowhere. Now however, I can actually SEE what is going on in my head with Ni or at least that is my interpretation of it, I can’t think of what else it could be unless I picked up a memory of briefly seeing a similar image (maybe a gif? Damn you tumblr lol) of the same thing…

But it was very complex in nature, I don’t think I could fully flesh out how it looks verbally– I would have to get a legit program and make something out of it if I really wanted. Another short thing I can tell of its detail is, there was no “visible color” unless you want to go with fading white/clear… In some dimension or perspective, that is a color right? Lol I say it as a fading color because it really appeared to be flashing in and out sporadically. You could easily tell this was not something you see “from the outside” like looking at something projected onto a 2D screen, but it was more like seeing yourself literally a couple inches away from the whole thing. Like you are “inside”… Crazy. Is it like a representation of Ni and tertiary Ti busy working together…? Lol :shocked:

Curious. I would like to know if any other INFJs or ‘one else experienced something like this? Have you gotten up close and personal with “Ni” in your mind’s eye? Lol

I-T (VenuTauri on PerC)
 

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Cool experience with the eggs. Sounds more Ne to me, like a painting an INFP might create, but I don't really know. Generally, Ne is about expanding possibilities, whereas Ni hones in on the one or the true essence I guess you could say. They go in somewhat different directions. I think an example is where someone suddenly starts behaving in some odd fashion, say they're suddenly angry. The Ne might start saying that it's due to this or that reason, the Ni will say, no, the reason is this one. Basically, Ne generates the bullshit, and Ni cuts out all of the bullshit.
 

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Yup! I experienced the images flashing, and then hit the "aha" moment.
I actually think the images are really symbols; as they say, a photograph has a thousand words. So the images are your own, subjective, representations of the data (eg. Recalling an entire event is somehow encapsulated in the image of a boy wearing blue jeans) you've accumulated through Se. It passes like a string of images, symbolic interpretations of your impressions concerning a particular object of interest, and the end result is the 'aha' moment. Your mind connects these series of impressions into a pattern, leading you to a single, poignant conclusion.

That was exactly how it felt for me anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@Another Lost Cause

Yeah Ne seems to not mind going from one possible conclusion to the next. xD I sometimes wish my brain worked that way, but I'd need a ton of Si data for that.

@purpleviolet

Exactly. xD I honestly rarely ever hear actual "words" or conscious deduction going on in my mind when that happens (until Ti comes in) and yet it's still fascinating to me how we can suddenly come to one conclusion. "This one." lol
 

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I don't know if this related :

I think my Ni always try to analyse and dissect information to it's core then develop the idea from it's core (yeah, it sounds like Ne, but, whatever).
I am a slow learner and I have really bad memory (Si), especially short term memory, i.e. remembering people's face I've just met, name, phone numbers, etc. But I can remember things in long term, such as organization system, mathematics, physics, history, stories, arts and crafts, because I 'dissected' and understand them.

So, although I am a slow learner (Ni takes time to connect all the information and ideas), once I got the core, I'm full speed ahead.

Come to think of it, few years ago, I was bored and on a whim, I tried to learn knitting from a book. Of course it was hard at the first time, as I just did what the book instruct me. After an hour, I fell asleep. Somehow, I dream (lucid dream, I think) that my hands knit as in the book. I woke up, and I just knit with no problem.

And yes, there are times when pictures came randomly in my mind, and my brain try to make sense of it (effect of daydreaming, wild imagination, or Ni-Ti?), then I saw those images in Wikipedia.
Probably deja vu....
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I don't know if this related :

I think my Ni always try to analyse and dissect information to it's core then develop the idea from it's core (yeah, it sounds like Ne, but, whatever).
I am a slow learner and I have really bad memory (Si), especially short term memory, i.e. remembering people's face I've just met, name, phone numbers, etc. But I can remember things in long term, such as organization system, mathematics, physics, history, stories, arts and crafts, because I 'dissected' and understand them.

So, although I am a slow learner (Ni takes time to connect all the information and ideas), once I got the core, I'm full speed ahead.

Come to think of it, few years ago, I was bored and on a whim, I tried to learn knitting from a book. Of course it was hard at the first time, as I just did what the book instruct me. After an hour, I fell asleep. Somehow, I dream (lucid dream, I think) that my hands knit as in the book. I woke up, and I just knit with no problem.

And yes, there are times when pictures came randomly in my mind, and my brain try to make sense of it (effect of daydreaming, wild imagination, or Ni-Ti?), then I saw those images in Wikipedia.
Probably deja vu....
I'd like to experience your perspectives. They seem real interesting. xD Wake up and suddenly know how to knit!
 

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wOW Thats actually interesting..infact I am extremely intrigued.

I used to think that I could see Ni, but not the internal processing. Rather I felt like I could recognize which information that had reached my consciousness was from Ni but now I have realized that the line is blurred.. I mean human beings use their subconscious ALL the time, I mean LITERALLY everything we perceive uses subconscious association. So with that in mind where do we draw the line?...where can we define Ni?... help me @VenuTauri :0
 
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Discussion Starter #8
wOW Thats actually interesting..infact I am extremely intrigued.

I used to think that I could see Ni, but not the internal processing. Rather I felt like I could recognize which information that had reached my consciousness was from Ni but now I have realized that the line is blurred.. I mean human beings use their subconscious ALL the time, I mean LITERALLY everything we perceive uses subconscious association. So with that in mind where do we draw the line?...where can we define Ni?... help me @VenuTauri :0
Hmm thats a good question. O.O . . .

........

Hold on let me marinate on that and ill get back to you xD....

----edit----

Actually! . . . I kinda have a feeling that, if we cant draw a conclusion with Ni and what it actually is, its because Ni is made to not draw lines.
 
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This is really fascinating.

I haven't had exactly this experience, but I definitely get the feeling sometimes that my thoughts are like a giant clear spiderweb branching in all directions. When patterns intersect, they flash to life. I also tend to see large, complex ideas as some kind of image or archetype. Something simple on the surface that embodies giant webs of these connections. I made use of this a lot in school, where I could use my memory of images in textbooks to connect with information discussed on nearby pages, sort of like a mind map.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is really fascinating.

I haven't had exactly this experience, but I definitely get the feeling sometimes that my thoughts are like a giant clear spiderweb branching in all directions. When patterns intersect, they flash to life. I also tend to see large, complex ideas as some kind of image or archetype. Something simple on the surface that embodies giant webs of these connections. I made use of this a lot in school, where I could use my memory of images in textbooks to connect with information discussed on nearby pages, sort of like a mind map.
Oh i resonate with this! Yeah spider webs is a good way to describe it, like all the interconnections and segments of data that's somehow all centered into one big vault that keeps growing and refining. I find that I almost never say the same conclusion twice (not that i could truly remember lol) because it feels like with the constant sync from Se my Ni does a ton of rewiring and synthesizing to the point they just flash, like you mentioned.

I can relate. I was very good at remembering pictures and bodies of text on pages (this is one of the ways i could pass quizzes or tests, i easily remembered the material in terms of a visual mind map rather than actual respectful understanding and remembering of the concepts themselves xD) or videos where I could easily just "pull up the file" and apply it to whatever I am learning or thinking about at a given time. It's really cool, like your handy dandy mind butler. XD idk haha
 

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I can relate. I was very good at remembering pictures and bodies of text on pages (this is one of the ways i could pass quizzes or tests, i easily remembered the material in terms of a visual mind map rather than actual respectful understanding and remembering of the concepts themselves xD) or videos where I could easily just "pull up the file" and apply it to whatever I am learning or thinking about at a given time. It's really cool, like your handy dandy mind butler. XD idk haha
Yes, exactly! I used to think I had a photographic memory because I could so easily memorize extremely long sections of text. (Once in Bible school as a kid I memorized the entire book of Hebrews word for word.) Now I realize that I didn't exactly have a photograph of the information in my mind, more like a mind map that triggered one idea and then the next.

As a piano performance major in college this came in really handy when memorizing things like Beethoven sonatas or concertos ... hugely long but full of big picture ideas that flow by triggering one idea to the next.

Fun to meet another person who identifies with learning this way!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, exactly! I used to think I had a photographic memory because I could so easily memorize extremely long sections of text. (Once in Bible school as a kid I memorized the entire book of Hebrews word for word.) Now I realize that I didn't exactly have a photograph of the information in my mind, more like a mind map that triggered one idea and then the next.

As a piano performance major in college this came in really handy when memorizing things like Beethoven sonatas or concertos ... hugely long but full of big picture ideas that flow by triggering one idea to the next.

Fun to meet another person who identifies with learning this way!
Oo you play piano! I bet, yeah i would think this type of memory/learning style helps you with that xD sadly for me i fail at music and playing instruments without my mind tripping over itself.. however.

I do dance every now and then. And im going to assume this is Ni Fe Se at work, but ive never taken dance classes and yet, my body knows immediately how to be in sync with the music that in a way i can even picture in a flow how the music "looks" in my mind, and then before i realize it my body is expressing it exactly. Im not a physical or emotional person in fact im usually always in my head and thinking, but when good music comes on i question whether i was a dancer in a previous life lool xD it comes so easily. This is probably one of the only artistic ways i express myself, otherwise im studying and researching a lot~
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I perceive language in terms of 'visual' 'objects'.

I wrote about it in a previous thread and I included some gifs to try to give the feel of how these things move.
Oh my god that is pretty much exactly how I see patterns in my mind too when I start to focus on something! It's really interesting isnt it xD the first and third gif are very close to what i usually "see"
 

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very close to what i usually "see"
Do you experience any recurrence or repetition of these things? Are you seeing the same thing more than once?

For me the general characteristics remain the same but I can't think of a time where I was like, 'aha! there's that object again!'.

Spin and rotation and the combination of organic feel with machine-like feel are usually present but beyond that I don't know that I've experienced the same object/pattern/'machine' more than once.

A whitish "light" and translucency is a recurring theme though. Sort of like the third gif I posted but 3-dimensional and the 'camera' is moving around it and through it. And it's like I'm inside of it or it's inside of me and I'm moving with it as it moves. It can be a bit 'ghostly' looking sometimes. But again, I don't actually 'see' these things.

The experience of these things is usually (always?) accompanied by insight. I can't experience the same insight ('aha!') more than once and I don't experience the same object/pattern/machine/whatever more than once (that I can recall).

Sometimes these things come alive when I dance. They spin and rotate and transform and the body dances itself as I perceive these objects/patterns/machines/lifeforms/whatever they are.

There are a few sections in this video that are reminiscent of the sorts of 'patterns' I experience:

 

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Basically, Ne generates the bullshit, and Ni cuts out all of the -unnecessary- bullshit.
^^^Beautifully and simply put.^^^
/appreciation

My Ni trying to focus on all the ideas coming in from Ne (gray “noise” and out of focus):

My Ni sorting all of Ne’s ideas into a cohesive and detailed image:

What my subconscious Ne “sees” of Ni’s work:
If Van Gogh’s small brush strokes and Leonid Afremov’s vivid use of colors had a love child.

My Ti’s attempt to explain Ni and Ne:
No friggin’ clue, but if it works plug it in and let’er rip. Iron out the wrinkles later.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Do you experience any recurrence or repetition of these things? Are you seeing the same thing more than once?

For me the general characteristics remain the same but I can't think of a time where I was like, 'aha! there's that object again!'.

Spin and rotation and the combination of organic feel with machine-like feel are usually present but beyond that I don't know that I've experienced the same object/pattern/'machine' more than once.

A whitish "light" and translucency is a recurring theme though. Sort of like the third gif I posted but 3-dimensional and the 'camera' is moving around it and through it. And it's like I'm inside of it or it's inside of me and I'm moving with it as it moves. It can be a bit 'ghostly' looking sometimes. But again, I don't actually 'see' these things.

The experience of these things is usually (always?) accompanied by insight. I can't experience the same insight ('aha!') more than once and I don't experience the same object/pattern/machine/whatever more than once (that I can recall).

Sometimes these things come alive when I dance. They spin and rotate and transform and the body dances itself as I perceive these objects/patterns/machines/lifeforms/whatever they are.

There are a few sections in this video that are reminiscent of the sorts of 'patterns' I experience:

Hm nope I wouldn't say it reoccurs or repeats ever the same twice, since they come in flashes and look different each time (though similar). I agree with everything you said, like being inside of it, moving with it and dancing with it even though you are only seeing it through your mind's eye. It's like a giant here-not here-here-not here "ghost" that you really go into a mental zen mode with. There is no conscious thought process, and once the images dissipate its like a new feeling of "oh i got it" even though you dont actually know what you just got, but it "fits" or "is it"... xD

For me, definitely would agree with how it is white-ish transluscent, "spin and rotation" is common. Like mentally turning the whole 3D transparent body of flowing data and entity and manipulating it to see how it can all fit harmoniously. Sometimes its just more an observation, other times it feels like im actually doing it myself. Its a very calming feeling though. :)

Yeah this pattern in the video really reminds me of it. Its a shame its only on a flat surface, bc our experience of it in our minds is very intimate and "inside".
 

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Discussion Starter #18
^^^Beautifully and simply put.^^^
/appreciation

My Ni trying to focus on all the ideas coming in from Ne (gray “noise” and out of focus):

My Ni sorting all of Ne’s ideas into a cohesive and detailed image:

What my subconscious Ne “sees” of Ni’s work:
If Van Gogh’s small brush strokes and Leonid Afremov’s vivid use of colors had a love child.

My Ti’s attempt to explain Ni and Ne:
No friggin’ clue, but if it works plug it in and let’er rip. Iron out the wrinkles later.
Hahaha cute xD yeah Ni likes putting things together into one single thing
 

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Oh i resonate with this! Yeah spider webs is a good way to describe it, like all the interconnections and segments of data that's somehow all centered into one big vault that keeps growing and refining. I find that I almost never say the same conclusion twice (not that i could truly remember lol) because it feels like with the constant sync from Se my Ni does a ton of rewiring and synthesizing to the point they just flash, like you mentioned.

I can relate. I was very good at remembering pictures and bodies of text on pages (this is one of the ways i could pass quizzes or tests, i easily remembered the material in terms of a visual mind map rather than actual respectful understanding and remembering of the concepts themselves xD) or videos where I could easily just "pull up the file" and apply it to whatever I am learning or thinking about at a given time. It's really cool, like your handy dandy mind butler. XD idk haha

The "Spider Web" visualization is Ne. Ni looks more like a flow chart. Now of course flow charts and spider webs do look similar but one focuses on the expansion and interconnections of the present while the other focuses on projections.

Your experience seems more Ne to me as well since you were aware of the connections and relevance of things in the moment due to Subjective Sensation (Si) and Objective Intuition (Ne).
 

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The "Spider Web" visualization is Ne. Ni looks more like a flow chart. Now of course flow charts and spider webs do look similar but one focuses on the expansion and interconnections of the present while the other focuses on projections.
I don't see how the forms of the images can indicate an attitude type (E/I) one way or the other.


From Jung's Psychological Types:

"The primary function of intuition, however, is simply to transmit images, or perceptions of relations between things, which could not be transmitted by the other functions or only in a very roundabout way. These images have the value of specific insights which have a decisive influence on action whenever intuition is given priority. In this case, psychic adaptation will be grounded almost entirely on intuitions. "


Extraverted intuition:

"In the extraverted attitude, intuition as the function of unconscious perception is wholly directed to external objects. "

Introverted intuition:

"Introverted intuition is directed to the inner object, a term that might justly be applied to the contents of the unconscious. The relation of inner objects to consciousness is entirely analogous to that of outer objects, though their reality is not physical but psychic. They appear to intuitive perception as subjective images of things which, though not to be met with in the outside world, constitute the contents of the unconscious, and of the collective unconscious in particular. These contents per se are naturally not accessible to experience, a quality they have in common with external objects. For just as external objects correspond only relatively to our perception of them, so the phenomenal forms of the inner objects are also relative—products of their (to us) inaccessible essence and of the peculiar nature of the intuitive function."
 
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