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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Anyone here have any insight on intp/infj/entp dynamics?

My husband (INTP) and I (INFJ).

I love my husband more than anything and would so happily be married to him forever, but my intuition is overriding and I can't help but insecure after hanging out with my intp mate and entp friend.

He has told me he finds her attractive and would sleep with her, but down plays the rest saying it would only be a fling that would end in disaster. ( I don't really think he knows what he's talking about, nor is he being totally honest. But in an unintentional way)

When we are all together she pays almost total attention to him and they quickly enter a Ti dialogue, in a classic ENTP/INTP way. She picks his brain and wants to know everything while at the same time offering up idea after idea while he readily provides an answer. I don't usually end up joining in on the conversation as it can quickly become a two way back and forth.

My husband doesn't seem to really see or acknowledge that this happens and says I am doing it myself and it's my fault for not participating. (I'm sure other infjs can agree, that's not our style to butt in on a conversation we're not needed in and feel is a two street just fine)

Although my husband gets annoyed by some of the ideas, finding them undeveloped and clearly flawed, I can't help but think that is only a minor issue. As he is flattered and excited by all that she seeks from him and they have continuous stream of conversation and attraction. Even if it's him doing most of the information spewing and her, asking questions and coming up with new ideas.

I have been obsessing over this and reading about it has not helped!! Their very obvious attraction doesn't help either. Of course, I could be misreading that since I don't know where she stands, (have not spoken to her about this and do not want to as of now) but my husband is attracted to her and feels she is to him and when we hang out, the proof is in the pudding for me. Especially since I used to be her best friend for years and have known her almost my whole my life, I can tell when she likes someone. I mean really likes them...she "likes" just about everyone. As most ENTPs do.




I have talked to him about this before, but I don't think he understands how serious and real it is for me. He says that I won, and he wants nothing but to be with me, (except you know to sleep with her. but, we're humans after all) If anyone has any experience or can give insight into any, infj intp entp relationships, please do. Greatly appreciated! As anxiety over here is high.
 

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** I should clarify, I love both of them tremendously and am not worried about cheating or anything like that. I just can't help but see a possible more satisfactory match and want everyone to have every opportunity they can to be happy.**
Um what? Are you saying you'd step aside if you thought they were a better match than the two of you?

Hopefully this isn't too personal, but how are things just between you and your husband? Once I'm in a committed relationship, I focus on making my relationship as healthy and happy as possible. The thought of either one of us trading out doesn't enter my mind. So your statement really stands out to me.

About the ENTP/INTP/INFJ dynamics, I can understand what you mean about being odd man out. They play off each other quite well, while I tend to find Ne too exhausting to be as engaged for long periods of time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
The funny thing is, I don't actually think that! And neither does he! I have been on an emotional pilgrimage for the past couple years and I realize a lot of that may be reflecting here. In terms of my relationship with myself and my husband. It's taxing on INTPs to have to connect with their Fi and when I see him with an ENTP, those things do not play a part. Although, him and I have more depth and understanding between each other.

He knows all this and knows I'm writing here too. The funny thing is, to him it's no big deal with her at all. He doesn't care or even think about it. But, I can't seem to let it go for whatever reason. ( I have kind of always been like this)

And no, I would never step aside! I just have some bizarre and slightly annoying inclining to want whatever would naturally occur were there no dynamics already set in place (obviously this way of thinking is flawed...maybe that's what I need to reroute.) It probably also doesn't help that before I met my husband, she was the closest I'd been to a friend. And the misunderstandings I had with her, some I have with him, and then some I had with her he has with her! I guess it's all full circle, but I can think, "Ah! None of my FJ issues!" It's like I know where I fit, and I fit there but, I feel very different and out of the loop. I guess I just need to find a way to rationalize all this and think from a logical point of view instead of entering everything through an imagination tunnel.

And, yes I couldn't agree more, that's what I've always focused on too. I think it's an innate INFJ trait.

Oh, and thank you for your response!
 

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"Ah! None of my FJ issues!"
When your husband sees you, even while your ENTP friend is in the room, he may have such thoughts as, "Ah! None of my NT issues!"

I think the worst thing to do here would be to take your husband's decision lightly. You have your own side to play in this that extends beyond the flaws you feel. As much as you think the interaction between them seems natural and right, you cannot see how your husband perceives the whole of it. Trust him, or create a rift by asserting your understanding over his. You are not him. You can only see by his decisions and his words whether he holds you as "right" for him.

*edit* Also, many people who are so thrilled by the figuring-them-out process are not so thrilled by the afterwards. And what would be left then in this oh-so-perfect interaction? Who knows.
 

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Afraid I can't provide much insight on the dynamics as I'm neither of those types, and the closest I've come is having a very private INTP brother.

The thing I'd suggest to anyone in this situation regardless of type is to be open with your concerns. Don't feel ashamed or bad, this is something that bothers you and it's important. If you're in a relationship with him it should be important to him too. Therefore communicate your concerns clearly and ask for his honest thoughts on it, just once. After that, ask him to make a promise to not go there with her as it would be the end of the relationship. From there on out only time will tell whether he remains faithful and respects your relationship enough, at least you'll know you have been honest and open about it all with no regrets. Speaking as a man it's very natural to be interested in other women, can't shut down biology and magically open it when with your SO. It's the promise, commitment and discipline you put into your relationships that make them worthwhile and last, being unfaithful is weak.

** I should clarify, I love both of them tremendously and am not worried about cheating or anything like that. I just can't help but see a possible more satisfactory match and want everyone to have every opportunity they can to be happy.**
This part in your post stuck out the most for me. I am both admiring how you're able to emotionally detach yourself and be more "logical" if it were, in this situation.. and somehow shocked at the same time. Maybe it's a sign of maturity, or a deep rooted indifference to your significant other or just plain old longterm suppression of emotion in one's life. I hope it's the former for you.

My best friend hooking up with my girlfriend? It would be completely devastating, hard to imagine a worse scenario. One important person in your life being unfaithful cuts deep, but two at the same time? Ouch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When your husband sees you, even while your ENTP friend is in the room, he may have such thoughts as, "Ah! None of my NT issues!"

I think the worst thing to do here would be to take your husband's decision lightly. You have your own side to play in this that extends beyond the flaws you feel. As much as you think the interaction between them seems natural and right, you cannot see how your husband perceives the whole of it. Trust him, or create a rift by asserting your understanding over his. You are not him. You can only see by his decisions and his words whether he holds you as "right" for him.

*edit* Also, many people who are so thrilled by the figuring-them-out process are not so thrilled by the afterwards. And what would be left then in this oh-so-perfect interaction? Who knows.
So very well said! Thank you. I couldn't agree more and I think that's always been an issue of mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Afraid I can't provide much insight on the dynamics as I'm neither of those types, and the closest I've come is having a very private INTP brother.

The thing I'd suggest to anyone in this situation regardless of type is to be open with your concerns. Don't feel ashamed or bad, this is something that bothers you and it's important. If you're in a relationship with him it should be important to him too. Therefore communicate your concerns clearly and ask for his honest thoughts on it, just once. After that, ask him to make a promise to not go there with her as it would be the end of the relationship. From there on out only time will tell whether he remains faithful and respects your relationship enough, at least you'll know you have been honest and open about it all with no regrets. Speaking as a man it's very natural to be interested in other women, can't shut down biology and magically open it when with your SO. It's the promise, commitment and discipline you put into your relationships that make them worthwhile and last, being unfaithful is weak."


"This part in your post stuck out the most for me. I am both admiring how you're able to emotionally detach yourself and be more "logical" if it were, in this situation.. and somehow shocked at the same time. Maybe it's a sign of maturity, or a deep rooted indifference to your significant other or just plain old longterm suppression of emotion in one's life. I hope it's the former for you.

My best friend hooking up with my girlfriend? It would be completely devastating, hard to imagine a worse scenario. One important person in your life being unfaithful cuts deep, but two at the same time? Ouch.
In response to the first bit:
Couldn't agree more! Funny thing is, we've talked about it many times. With lots of love and reassurance on his part. (He really puts up with a lot. :tongue:) And yes, totally it is biology which is why I think I could be okay even if they did want to have something. Them or anyone else. It really isn't about her specifically. It's a strive to be more "mature", to realize my conditionings and let them go. To not own a person but, to be connected unconditionally so as two beings.

^
This is all theoretical of course, obviously, I'm not there yet.
v

So with that being said, I can be open to almost anything it's just figuring out how to not take it personally and reflect it back upon myself and my own relationships and start to compare. Mostly because, I don't actually see her as any real "threat". In a way, I feel like I'm trying to get to a place where I don't feel as protective. So incredibly protective, that it makes me exaggerate the truth (which is honestly kind of what I did hear. Was feeling very emotional when I wrote this...) and then when my Ni starts picking up on even small insignificant details I run with it through all my circuits and connect everything to this one deep rooted fear...good ol' abandonment. Also, I think part of me really gets annoyed at how my friend (not my best friend by the way, should have clarified, used to be, but not for many years. we are incompatible, even though we are still great friends) But, at how much attention she craves from my husband. It can drive me crazy, but again that goes back to the seed.

Oh and as for the second: After saying out loud what I actually meant by that statement I realize how off what I wrote is! Totally didn't say what I meant the right way. It sounds as though there is a hidden meaning which is what I was getting at up there. Another part of it is and I'm not totally sure how to explain this, but I would feel so completely guilty and unjust if I didn't allow for the person I care more than anyone for and whom I want to have every experience they may want to explore to not be able to be open with me. I don't want the avoidance of "hurt" to be an avenue for repression. This also may be partly the martyr in me. Because no way in hell in this current time would I ever in reality be "okay" with this. It's odd even more because, I'm not actually worried about this...if you can understand what I mean. It can be very hard for us INFJS to accept love which is ironic considering how much we give it. Anyways. someone else summed it up really nice and simply for me:



" A wife feeling scorned by a friend holding a better conversation with her husband. That's pretty much what we have here.
Yes, that's missing the point and downplaying it, but that's exactly what it looks like to them. And like me, they wouldn't quite get it, since validation isn't on demand(but still in need regardless).

It's not about talking about each other, at each other, it is mere intellectual play, no strings attached. It is pleasant, yes, but there's nothing much to it, no intrinsic meaning, or deep connection, even if you perceive it, they don't.

However! If he has said that he's still dedicated to you, he means it. Idea milling is fun when it happens, but there's more to life than that. He values you regardless, ask him if he can reinforce that notion where you could feel more comfortable.

But hey, I've barely been in a relationship, so take this with a mountain of salt."


Also, I wish I wrote this whole original post differently! I realize my underlings now. This is the first time I've ever posted on a thread though and at the time, I was feeling quite in my own world after being in bed sick for three days reading about myers briggs. And I feel like I'm probably a bit all over the place so I apologize if this was hard to follow. Take it for what you will!

And thank you for the response. I appreciate all positive, productive feedback
 

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Hun, I see that you are living on this thread. Are you OK? Please put your mind at ease.

This dynamic is so incredibly easy to understand (for me). I just hope I do a good enough job writing it out.

And Fe, mind you. Not Fi. I can't even grasp what that feels like..


Hi, I'm an INTP with well-developed Fe. I have NTP friends, and I've only had INxJ as my long term partners. I think I can help. Let me tell you what this looks like to me.

You have nothing to worry about. As Sedem said above, you just need to trust your husband. This is the key. If he is anything like me, the decision he has made to marry you means the world to him. Do not take that lightly.. (not saying that you are), but even when there's bits of flirts like this you see here and there, you should know that this decision is quite untouchable and is on a whole different plane from these "petty," concerns.

This dynamic is so easy to understand. I have it with my friends all the time, I'll tell you exactly what this feels like and what I'm thinking in those moments.

I will just go over your writing point by point to be precise.


He has told me he finds her attractive and would sleep with her, but down plays the rest saying it would only be a fling that would end in disaster. ( I don't really think he knows what he's talking about, nor is he being totally honest. But in an unintentional way)
His mistake. Shouldn't have said it. If only he knew how much this has been bothering you.
I'm sure you guys have that deep IN-IN connection where you can just talk about everything. That's great. You think it's cool, it probably is most of the time, I used to brag about that too. But there are things called "unnecessary info" in a relationship. So we know females and males work differently. Males are much more easily prone to physical attraction, it really does work somewhat differently. My ex INxJ (male) used to tell me this from time to time, it was kind of fun and it still kind of hurt. I've had big enough attraction to sleep with someone once during the years of relationships we had, I never told him. I knew to protect him.
Some things are just not that cool. Especially when it's your best friend? Well.. but here is the thing. He probably does talk about it because it is so trivial! He really can, but it really doesn't matter! Haha. I will explain this over and over again. Hope you get it by the end of this post.

And do yourself a favor and don't ask this again. Does his volunteer this info over and over when not asked? Then he's an asshole. But if you ask, we have no choice but to tell you the absolute clean truth. Can you see yourself sleep with her? Yes. As I can with many other people that I can't even pull up in my head but I'm sure are attractive and smart, whatever. (The bar might also be very low esp. because he's a males, etc. I know my bar would be much lower if I were a male..) That's the part you don't hear, because you didn't ask for that. And another thing you don't know -

"It's not like I'm thinking about it all the time, or constantly even when I see her. Now that you've asked, yes, I can see it is physically and humanly possible. But a relationship? The cost of that in reality when I have someone wonderful like you in my life? LOL and hell no. It's just so kind of funny not even worth mentioning." Do you get it?

You are the one thinking about this all the time. You see? You get a bits of truth from him, and you expand on the details, and that is what's making you sleepless. Don't ask for info you can't handle (because you will inevitably elaborate upon it!). We can't protect you by lying.



When we are all together she pays almost total attention to him and they quickly enter a Ti dialogue, in a classic ENTP/INTP way. She picks his brain and wants to know everything while at the same time offering up idea after idea while he readily provides an answer. I don't usually end up joining in on the conversation as it can quickly become a two way back and forth.
Yes of course, ENTP/INTP interaction has that awesome, racing quality. You don't end up joining, but the truth is you probably can't - no one can - when we are in that zone, without interrupting the flow. And that flow is at light speed here. Don't we look like we are on speed? (yes, the amphetamine). It's like a fun game that immediately begins, no break. Same interaction I get with my friends. I sit their with a half smile, they start to throw questions. "They pick my brain" (very accurate description, nice job), they are asking for views from every angle possible, while offering up ideas along the way, and I provide my answers immediately, because I'm completely following. Not only I'm following, I'm usually two steps ahead, or this all has been thought out in my head before. Then they go "oh wow, ok then," and build on my answer, another twist on the matter, it keeps going. What if, what if, what if's. It's very cute and a lot of fun, for good awhile.

My husband doesn't seem to really see or acknowledge that this happens and says I am doing it myself and it's my fault for not participating. (I'm sure other infjs can agree, that's not our style to butt in on a conversation we're not needed in and feel is a two street just fine)
Not your fault, no one can, without interrupting the quality/flow dramatically. We basically have to stop if we want to let anyone in. And being the sensitive INFJ that you are, you know not to break that flow and watch. They are being them, you are being you, it's no one's fault. It also has nothing to do with intellect. When we have a conversation with someone like you, it's at a whole different depth, speed, and wavelength. You know that. He thinks anyone can jump in cause we are crazy (you know how when you are drunk and you talk, you think everyone is in the same drunk zone with you and everyone can understand you? kind of similar). Also your husband and your friend feel bad (very slightly, b/c we really have no idea what's wrong) for not including you, so we say jump in. But it's just not quite possible. It's like we are drunk driving at full speed with both doors open, and we ask you, hey, jump in on the passenger side! Right now! Uh... no. If you do step up, we will stop the car (immediately). But you don't want us to stop the car, because you see the fun of racing we are having (that we don't even fully realize ;p). Does this metaphor help?
Not your fault. People can't just jump in in ENTP/INTP crazy chats.

You are also right that your husband "doesn't seem to really see what's happening" because this is just all so natural. When others look at it it looks like we are at crazy speed/connection, but I'm (dk about my ENTP friends) usually feeling totally calm, and usually a lil exhausted by the end because of their E-ness. When I meet my ENTP friend, we meet alone. 5 hours easily pass by until any of us thinks of a bathroom break. We once had an observer in our convo, she was completely lost. She said "you guys were in a zone, crazy connection, your thoughts are so facst." Your ENTP friend talks fast too, no? It looks really intense from others' point of view, but the truth is, her talking speed (her expression of her racing thoughts) is still quite a bit slower than my thinking speed, and I am taking in all of her view so comfortably with no effort (because our thought processes are usually very similar). It feels like I'm just sitting here listening and breathing ("going on being") - we don't quite realize we are "in a zone." If this makes sense to you.


Although my husband gets annoyed by some of the ideas, finding them undeveloped and clearly flawed, I can't help but think that is only a minor issue. As he is flattered and excited by all that she seeks from him and they have continuous stream of conversation and attraction. Even if it's him doing most of the information spewing and her, asking questions and coming up with new ideas.
And this is very true, too. Excuse my INTP narcissism, but when it comes to idea development, ENTPs ideas seem often half-baked. Because they don't follow through and sit on it as long as we do. Also INTPs see through flaws and inconsistencies of any kind, even when thrown into an overload of a mess of info. That's why ENTPs love us, what we like about them is that energy. How they go about acting on these baked/half-baked ideas and live their life.

Did you say "it's a minor issue." Minor issue on what. Attraction? Get that out of your head, and (again, if your husband is anything like me, which I think he is due to his choice of mate) that haphazard E-ness is a pretty big turn off in terms of sexual attraction, and even more, long term partner attraction. For me, as a female INTP, intellectual organization is closely linked to sexual attraction. I know for a fact that it doesn't work that way for guys, but if you talk about compatibility or anything beyond sex, this quality makes such a huge difference. Undeveloped and clearly flawed .. it's so funny how you think something so important to us is minor :) Ah the beauty of MBTI :p


I have been obsessing over this and reading about it has not helped!! Their very obvious attraction doesn't help either. Of course, I could be misreading that since I don't know where she stands, (have not spoken to her about this and do not want to as of now) but my husband is attracted to her and feels she is to him and when we hang out, the proof is in the pudding for me. Especially since I used to be her best friend for years and have known her almost my whole my life, I can tell when she likes someone. I mean really likes them...she "likes" just about everyone. As most ENTPs do.

I have talked to him about this before, but I don't think he understands how serious and real it is for me. He says that I won, and he wants nothing but to be with me, (except you know to sleep with her. but, we're humans after all) If anyone has any experience or can give insight into any, infj intp entp relationships, please do. Greatly appreciated! As anxiety over here is high.

OK lady. I will speak on behalf of your NTPs, and I will be as honest and straightforward I can. Hope this helps.

Please don't suffer so much, we love you. You mean the world to your husband, and your ENTP friend, on top of loving everyone in the world, loves you at a whole different level.

If you took a long enough bathroom break, we'd bond over talking about just how godawesome you are, and how lucky we are to have you in our lives (given we both have well-developed Fe to talk about such things.. :p)

Don't let this get to you. Take my words, and just don't let it. You are the one sitting in his heart, "the ultimate winner of it all" (this is exactly how I used describe it to my partners too) and we really don't have much room for more than one person at a time, when it comes to connections this deep. If he is making that transition, to let someone else get in his heart, he will let you know. You will see it.

This NTP connection/flirts is so naturally done. But trust me it's not that attractive (or not as attractive as it seems :p), not nearly as the connection I get from my INxJ partners. Would an example help.

That ENTP girl friend I mentioned above, we see each other rarely but talk forever when we do. We have that classic ENTP/INTP interaction, we sometimes start at 8am over breakfast and alcohol. It's crazy. I find her absolutely adorable, and she has had a girl crush on me for nearly a decade now. Our convo ends and we are pulled apart to our respective lives, she'd say, "Only if you were a guy..." I say, yes yes my lady, I know. I love you too, good day. :)
If I were a guy, would I sleep with her? Yes, definitely (if we were both single ;). But the same situation, I'm still a guy, would I date her? No. It will be really fun for a few days, but it'd be crazy and things will go down very quick. I see it. Also, I'm just not that attracted to her in that way, no matter what it seems like!
And my lovely ENTP friend, would she really date me if I were guy? She probably would, but we know we won't stay together for long. It would be a fling at best. She is now with a very nice ISFJ guy, we both know this is the type that makes her most comfortable. We both know this, without ever talking about it in detail, and we wish each other well. And the sparks of connection we enjoy every time we meet is a completely different thing from all this.


I was actually asked this precise question this morning. "Just what do you find so sexy in these INxJ people?" (someone asked, because I've only been deeply interested in INxJs as long term romantic partners).

I said mystery. The mystery that the person is, that reserved, quiet aura, the depth of their internal world, and that (omg so adorable) predictability that comes with that J. And how that predictability then translates into reliability - when I have someone like that in my life, my whole world starts to settle with a new level of stability and light I did not know existed.

Do you know how much we adore you, when we do fall for someone like that.

Trust me when I say this. It means the WORLD to me to have an INxJ partner to go home to. Happiest moments of my life, I had someone like that sitting at the deepest core of my life, they hold the weight of my world, my law of gravity was re-defined.

It would mean that my world will shift, if I ever have to let you go. My NTP friends and everyone else can happily skip along on the surface of my planet. That's my life too, it's a wonderful world, I love them all for what they are. But my one and only lover exists at a different level. I can't compare you with any other person.

How can you not know :)

This is why, we can easily talk about attraction and all other wonderful stuff of the human world and still smile about it like it's nothing - because it is nothing. We are talking about all other humans here, not you :) You are my lover, nothing defines you, for you are the definition of my world.


Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Me, oh me oh my! Have to make this quick, so I'll just say, thank you. You have no idea idea how yes yes yes and right this was. Well, actually I'm sure you do, you INTPs just blow me away.
 

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Attraction isn't a choice. Loyalty is. Trust in his loyalty to you and don't push, or else she will seem like the better option due simply to seeming less insecure. Trust me, I've been in your position and found that when I left the two of them to their devices, their incompatibilities eventually worked themselves out. I never tried to imitate her or compensate for my seeming deficiencies. That would've been the worst thing I could've done. Rather, I emphasized qualities I had that she didn't. Namely, integrity and emotional intelligence and quiet motherfucking strength. The fact that I would never creep on someone else's husband unlike this bitch. It's something you have to ride out. Do it here on this board or in a journal. Not to his face or you'll seem like you're threatened. Which you aren't, k? ;)
 
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