[flatwhite]

I started out reading up on MBTI out of curiosity about a month ago - i initially tested as an INTJ, but then started having doubts and took close to another dozen tests and read many other descriptives. still consistenly tested as an INTJ, but occasionally got ISTJ as well. it doesn't help that i probably used to be an INFP as a child (an epiphany derived from the Keys2Cognition's suggestion that i may be an INFP or ESTJ, if not an ISTJ). yeah - big leap.

and the problem with enneagrams (which i've started exploring obsessively a couple of weeks back) is that there are too many contradictory descriptions everywhere i turn, thus making things a lot more fuzzy. i do seem to be getting further with this than the MBTI, though: i've pretty much narrowed it down to 5w4, 5w6 or 6w5. i should think that i'm a 6w5, but it doesn't hurt to seek a second opinion, eh? (can't properly do this irl because i've recently moved overseas so i don't exactly have any close friends around atm)

let's get to it. adding in a fair bit of my childhood because i'm only 19 (only so much experience to draw from) and i think it'll be an important factor in enneagram typing:

- i lived within a world of my own as a child, but not to the point of having imaginary friends. i loved playing make believe, though, and every single one of my soft toys had a first name, middle name and last name (yeah, i categorised them into families. don't ask). in contrast, i thought barney was a terribly condescending show but otoh loved winnie the pooh. wasn't a fan of fairy tales either - thought sleeping beauty was all sorts of ridiculous (100 years of sleep whaaa?)

- had trust issues even as a child (was intensified when a 'friend' started bullying me when i was just 7). i had little trouble coping academically, though; i pick things up easily and effortlessly ranked 1st in grades 1-3 even though i didn't even know what the concept of studying was (one of the reasons why i was continuously picked on).

- wasn't the type to speak up in class, but this didn't mean that i didn't have an opinion. i disagreed with many of the things the teachers did or said but never spoke up because i didn't like drawing attn to myself (i'd often mutter to myself or a friend about how flawed a certain instruction/concept was, though).

- i absolutely hated homework in primary school. often didn't complete it either, which got me into a great bit of trouble. i wasn't oblivious to authority, though. i did experience feelings of fear when i didn't finish my homework, but it wasn't enough to get me to want to do it (discipline fail). i still did reasonably well academically though, so i guess they didn't make too big a deal out of it.

- i was pretty damn timid as a child and had a lot of trouble standing up for myself. By the time i reached high school, even the guys didn't much dare to mess with me because they've seen how ferocious i can get when something wasn't done properly (mostly thanks to my perfectionism). i've toned down a little since then haha.

- otoh, i hated being patronised. if there's one thing i remember from when i was a child of 7-8 yrs, it was that i often reminded myself to never treat a child as condescendingly as many other adults do. it wasn't that i thought i knew everything - i just thought it very... elitist? for adults to act more otherworldly than children. i'm now fully aware of how little i've known back then and how little i will always know, but my childhood defiance reminds me to treat every child like an adult today.

- hated drama even as a child. i thought the whole 'i don't friend you but i friend you two hours later' trend was positively idiotic, and when my classmates played the game with me, i just went along with it (oh you don't friend me? that's okay, you'll come running back in a good couple of hours).

- i remember having suicidal thoughts at around ages 8-9. i've often thought about existential issues and i often wondered what the point in living was if we're all going to die anyway. i often felt trapped, suffocated and helpless as a child. i consider myself an agnostic today. as a whole, i had very dark, murky mood swings from ages 7-11 thereabouts and kept a LOT to myself. jeez i was pretty screwed up, now that i look at it. i think the excessive amounts of alone time and pessimistic thoughts were to blame.

- in both my childhood and teenagehood, i was pretty emotionally disconnected. i always thought it was rather lame to cry when watching romantic movies (as you can tell, i wasn't entirely the most pleasant child around :|) err i'm a lot more balanced now, i think - i do tear up when watching quite a few movies nowadays. still not very comfortable with displays of emotion irl.

- was afflicted with the peter pan syndrome since childhood. everyone around me wanted to grow up quickly so that they could drink booze and watch R movies (seriously?), but i've always thought that children had more fun - they got away with more and had no responsibilities. y'know, reflecting on my childhood, it's surprising i turned out relatively 'normal' without any psychiatric help -.- thing is that i didn't come from a broken family - my parents were caring enough and i was close enough (in a bickering manner) to my siblings, so i wonder why i turned out that way *rubs chin*.

- started coming out of my shell at around 14-15 yrs old. was more involved in clubs and the sort. wasn't out of a genuine desire - more a circumstantial thing than something i really worked for. high school was when my perfectionist tendencies fully fledged its wings (had it as a child, but seeing how i didn't involve myself much in school or really anything in general, it didn't have much of a chance to flaunt itself).

- i don't have many close friends. realised that i could generally get along with many people but 95% of the time, progressing beyond the acquaintance threshold revealed things about them that i couldn't stand. hardly have any guy friends because pretty much every guy in my high school was incapable of acting their age. had very few girl friends because too many of them were involved in (and could only talk about) petty drama.

- am a dreamer - always have been, always will be. enjoy wasting time forming conversations with non-existent people (still do this sometimes) and constructing alternate realities. not entirely the most observant person (i'm always the last to notice when mutual friends become a couple - i wouldn't even have noticed the flirting stage).

- i love food, new experiences and to a certain extent, fashion. hate it when people like indie/popular stuff for the sake of. i do genuinely like quite a number of indie things tho. nope, no need to point out how potentially hypocritical this is - i've noticed it myself :|.

- can't stand indecisive people. also feel uncomfortable if i'm consistently deciding everything when out with a couple of friends, i.e. when i get the feeling that they do have an opinion but they don't want to voice it out. i start to think that they'd probably get pissed off if i end up deciding all the time when they actually have sth in mind. you can prob tell that i like it when people just let it out when they have a problem with me. it's better than having them sneak around behind my back or hold in resentments.

- i'm honest with most people, unless i get the impression that they're the types who cannot handle direct criticism.

- am very hard on myself when it comes to things that i really care about. tend to get very idealistic with certain things (politics, human rights yadda) and can get quite frustrated when people are apathetic about such issues and say that there is no hope etc. i can surprise people with a sudden outburst of enthusiasm in certain subjects.

- i have a competitive streak (that wasn't very apparent before puberty), and though i sometimes feel threatened by those more brilliant than i am, such an emotion's usually trumped by a feeling of genuine respect.

- i may appear to have wonderful work ethics, but i'm the best procrastinator i know.

- hate vague instructions. don't mind if they specifically say 'do whatever you want', but if they're looking for something specific but don't give clear directions i get annoyed.

- i can count on one hand the number of friends i truly treasure, and i could go to great lengths for them. which is why it doesn't make sense how i have the tendency to forget their birthdays :|.

- not the kind of person who would give everything away for others, though. i have a tendency to put myself first, although i've been trying to change this aspect of myself heh.

- an introvert (as if you couldn't already tell). i'm getting a lot better at small talking and the like, though - years of study in the marketing field does that to you (fyi - wasn't my first choice. an asian family influence thing. would've rather chosen liberal arts/philosophy/social science. i don't quite mind it, though, apart from the excessive human contact har har - i think it also helps that i can find almost anything fascinating).

huh am i long winded or what. guess i was hoping a clearer picture = a more definite answer.

opinions?

 

[Booty Shorts]

I think there is a definite issue with MBTIi and age. It could be responsible for my type dilemma as well. I have tested as 6 types. I get onto MBTI when I was 16.

Now more (specifically) regarding your post....
The Brain continues to develop well into the 40's. According to extensive studies, the Prefrontal Cortex solidifies around 22-25.

The Prefrontal Cortex does what scientists call "executive function." This means that it manages cognitive processes. So it basically controls cause/effect, impulse control and also plays a role in emotional development and... personality.

The more I get into MBTI and read up on psychology, the more I am against trying to decipher type as a teenager. I think that 'type' begins to reveal itself as a child. Due to brain development and the hormones of puberty... It is highly likely that an individual can get thrown off or confused about type.

According to everything you posted, you seem like you may be an INFP. That is just my opinion based on what I have read, though.

 

[flatwhite]

hmm that's fascinating. so you're saying that MBTI types are fixed for life? because i've seen many people in countless forums claiming that their type had changed over the years, or that they're trying to change their type. enneagram clearly states that it is unchanging but MBTI's a lot more ambiguous about that.

i do agree that i have many INFP tendencies, but there are a couple of things about me that i think contradicts what INFPs are about:

- i'm pretty selfish. the idea of giving up a lot for the greater good or people who are genuinely suffering does crop up pretty often, though - does this count?

- i think impersonal judgment is incredibly valuable. i frequently use it in most work-related situations. i must say that it doesn't quite manifest itself in my everyday life tho.

- edit: i also handle criticism pretty well. wouldn't say it doesn't affect me at all, but i don't retreat into my den and sulk for days on end - i mostly just try to work on it. i was quite the sulker when i was much younger, though. is this a change of personality or merely a progression in maturity?

speaking of which, i've been beginning to wonder if it was possible for one to act like another MBTI type in work-related situations? or are the differences in one's behaviour during work and after hours supposed to be accounted for by only one MBTI type?

assuming that one's personality is not set in stone until the prefrontal cortex solidifies, does this mean that mbti cannot be determined before one reaches ages 22-25? but you do mention that type reveals itself during childhood....

 

[Holunder]

Much of what you wrote could have been a description of me... I think INTJ fits you very well.

You cannot change your type (except maybe in extreme situations, like severe brain damage), but the way we are able to use our functions develops throughout our lives. As children, we often heavily rely on our dominant function, and Ni without the regulating influence of Te can look like INFP dreaminess. Also, some may prefer their tertiary function before learning to use the secondary properly, and for INTJ, this would be Fi, which would make them look even more like INFP.

Every type can exhibit behaviors of other types. Your type determines the way you process information and the way you look at life, and your behavior is certainly influenced by that, but there are many other factors such as habit or circumstances.

 

[Booty Shorts]

I am saying that type starts to manifest itself at childhood. However, science proves that we are not solidified completely in out personalities until the span between 22 and 25. That is what I am saying. Forgive me for not being clear, if I was not.

We begin to develop our personalities and they later solidify. This is what I think so far based on my experience and research. I am not neurologist or psychologist, however. Some people believe MBTI type does not change... some do. I, personally, am under the impression that type does not change but we access different functions throughout life but we have one main preference that is inherent and embedded.

It is possible for one to "act like" another type at work. Work is not where we are most comfortable (usually) some jobs call of other functions to be used. Of course one does not display one solid stereotype 100% of the time. We are also all individuals as well. 2 people of the same type may be very different due to genetics and life events... but still have the same Jungian-cognitive functions.

 

[ENTrePenuer]

The functions are not something you turn on and off or use.
They are called upon outside of your conscious control. Beyond that people test outside of their type because of ego.

In other words they lie to themselves and so are incapable of testing correctly.


You want to know your type?

Ask the people around you the questions. then compare them against your responses truthfully.

 

[Booty Shorts]

It is type theory. You are too religious, dude. For you to say that like it is a hardcore fact is confusing.... about the turn off and on thing.


I know that we have one preference. However, everyone embodies the ability to turn on and off, if you have a brain. What is a lie? If someone can adapt, wouldn't that be part of the individuals inherent personality? None the less... I would argue that ego would make the person cling to such an idea as a type all together.

We all have ego.

 

[ENTrePenuer]

hmmm. I see.

 

[Booty Shorts]

""Jung also posited that the functions formed a hierarchy within a person's personality -- the most important function is referred to as the "dominant", with the remaining three filling the progressively less important roles of "auxiliary", "tertiary" and "inferior". In addition, each mental function is seen as either introverted or extroverted (known as attitudes). This idea is interpreted in terms of whether the person finds it more rewarding when using the function in question to have an outward focus on people and things (extroversion) or an inward focus on thoughts and ideas (introversion). These models do not claim that people are only capable of applying the function in question in that attitude, but rather that operating in the opposite attitude requires the expenditure of "energy" (or rather, emotional resources, enthusiasm, and so on) whilst operating in the person's natural attitude replenishes that same energy""


Jungian cognitive functions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[flatwhite]

You cannot change your type (except maybe in extreme situations, like severe brain damage), but the way we are able to use our functions develops throughout our lives. As children, we often heavily rely on our dominant function, and Ni without the regulating influence of Te can look like INFP dreaminess. Also, some may prefer their tertiary function before learning to use the secondary properly, and for INTJ, this would be Fi, which would make them look even more like INFP.

it does make sense - my Te could've only started developing when given the opportunity in my teen years. many of the cognitive function breakdowns that i have come across had been really vague and ambiguous, so i scoured the net, hoping to find a clearer insight into cognitive functions that i haven't yet come across and found a wonderful link that the forum will not allow me to post due to my newbie-ness -.-

but anyway, it's really insightful. has much clearer narratives on the functions and how they manifest themselves in one's personality. seeing how dominant functions often show itself first and foremost in childhood, anything with dominant functions Ti and Si's pretty much out of the Q. it's virtually impossible for either Fe or Se to be my auxiliary, so that leave's me with INFP and INTJ. again. mmm the auxiliary Ne of INFP, acc to the above link, doesn't smell quite right, though:

"Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social con- [p. 466] nections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility."

i guess i don't quite feel like an INTJ because i've have spent considerable amounts of time lurking at the INTJforum and they, as a general consensus, do not appear to be much bothered by any physical pleasure at all (with the exception of a ridiculously fixated attachment to all matters sexual pfft), which isn't very much like me. but like you said, perhaps it's that is a personal preference developed by experiences more than anything else...

We begin to develop our personalities and they later solidify. This is what I think so far based on my experience and research. I am not neurologist or psychologist, however. Some people believe MBTI type does not change... some do. I, personally, am under the impression that type does not change but we access different functions throughout life but we have one main preference that is inherent and embedded.

It is possible for one to "act like" another type at work. Work is not where we are most comfortable (usually) some jobs call of other functions to be used. Of course one does not display one solid stereotype 100% of the time. We are also all individuals as well. 2 people of the same type may be very different due to genetics and life events... but still have the same Jungian-cognitive functions.

mmm i do remember reading about variations in functional development. and your mention of the ability to use different functions etc rings true to me - i think everyone has the capability to apply themselves into another form. we are all human, after all, and if we cannot control how we perceive and judge things to a certain extent, then what is free will?

i can imagine it to be taxing, though - guess this is how burn-outs happen to people as well.

The functions are not something you turn on and off or use.
They are called upon outside of your conscious control. Beyond that people test outside of their type because of ego.

In other words they lie to themselves and so are incapable of testing correctly.

if by ego, you mean the Freudian apparatus of control, then you are right. but that's the beauty of humanity, isn't it? being able to 'fight the current', so to speak, and be something else that requires more than the base animalistic needs of - well, animals.

you sound as if you sneer at those who lie to themselves. not everyone's had the privilege of self-reflection - not yet, anyway. doesn't come naturally to some. societal pressure to conform - which thus causes one to project a different personality trait - impacts some more than others.

You want to know your type?

Ask the people around you the questions. then compare them against your responses truthfully.

i would if they knew me well enough :| i don't think i've every entirely revealed my inner thoughts to anyone at all (trust issues)

 

[flatwhite]

decided to take the cognitive function test again and y'know, i think the air's finally cleared:


extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************** (20)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************** (26.9)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *************************************** (39.5)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) **************************** (28.8)
average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************************* (33.1)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************** (30.1)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *********** (11.6)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************************* (49.4)
excellent use

decided to tone down on the work-related tendencies, and the ISTJesque traits naturally dissipated. i remember the Fi here being quite a few points higher than when i took it previously, but it's easily the strongest function either way, so there you go.

so thanks everyone who tried to help karma points for all!