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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I'm an ENTJ,

I don't seem to get along with ESTJ and ESFJ types. I don't know why... we seem to be talking different things. I just can't seem to hang out with them well. It seems find when talking to SP types..

Can someone give some advice? Particularly on how to get along with them?
 

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Subterranean Homesick Alien
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What is it that bothers you about SJs?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the first reply,

Well they are the most common type + they normally form cliques in the work place/instituition. Not being able to get along with them can be seen as a disadvantage
 

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^ Right, but that's just an explanation of why you want to get along with them better. lol

What actual problems do you encounter with them? Is it the Fe-dom/aux types? Or is it an S vs N issue?
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, you make it sound clearer....

It seems more of an S vs N domain... they always see me as complicated, lack common sense and always talk about conceptual things.

They are more traditional minded I guess.

I kinda have an idea how SJs are like, just how do we socialize with them?
 

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Yeah, you make it sound clearer....

It seems more of an S vs N domain... they always see me as complicated, lack common sense and always talk about conceptual things.

They are more traditional minded I guess.

I kinda have an idea how SJs are like, just how do we socialize with them?

Oh. Yeah, if it's the Sensor/Intuitor communication issue, only one way to get around it: Pretend to be an SJ. Simply force yourself to NOT talk about complicated or conceptual things.

The common sense thing is just unfair. It's biased. When will common intuition receive some recognition?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Man,

You've made me start thinking. And You're probably right. We have to avoid complicated stuff. Probably just talk about our experience, what we've done, i.e. small talk.

It would be nice if an ESTJ can give their thoughts here

ANY ESTJs OUT THERE???:unsure:
 

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Hi! I'm not really sure what to say, we're social people just the same as you. Work on a project together and we'll get comfortable with you and it'll be easier to socialize. We're not much of the, "Hi, lets be best friends right now" type. Especially if we're the ones who are expected to do the befriending. We value work, hard work. Working together on something and talking is way better than standing around and talking, we get to be productive and learn more about you, and you get to be social. Hope this helps!
 

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I'm not sure I get you. My best friends are ENTJ and INTJs and we get along great.

Both ENTJ and ESTJ uses Te as our dominant function most of the time, so theoretically, it should be easy to communicate because we're in the same channel.

Our second functions, Ni/Si, is not a huge block and can be overcome easily IMO because we can balance it with our third functions, which is Ne/Se.

Plus, we also have the same fourth function, Fi.

ESTJ : Te Si Ne Fi
ESFJ : Fe Si Ne Ti
ENTJ : Te Ni Se Fi

Si can communicate well with Se, while Ni can communicate well with Ne. So there shouldn't be a huge problem, unless it is the culture that varies.

Perhaps you're not ENTJ? That will explain why you can't connect well with ESTJ/ESFJ.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks you guys (Wicked Queen and Splitty) for your explanation :happy:

I've done many tests and it always ends up with ENTJ.

Your explanations do make a lot of sense. I guess it's probably me not having good social skills :confused:

Yeah, you're right splitty. Work, as in Te would be a common ground for understanding. At least we both tend to be action oriented.

Wicked queen, you were mentioning about Ni and Si. I understand what Ni is... cause i do it all the time.. I go into this inner world of imagination of mine. In here I tend to see optimistic results, ideas which can be translated into action.

But I still don't understand what Si is. Can you explain what do you experience when you are using Si?. I know it sounds like a funny question, but seriously it's something I badly wanna know
 

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From wikipedia:

Sensing and intuition are the information-gathering (perceiving) functions. They describe how new information is understood and interpreted. Individuals who prefer sensing are more likely to trust information that is in the present, tangible and concrete: that is, information that can be understood by the five senses. They tend to distrust hunches, which seem to come "out of nowhere."[1]:2 They prefer to look for details and facts. For them, the meaning is in the data. On the other hand, those who prefer intuition tend to trust information that is more abstract or theoretical, that can be associated with other information (either remembered or discovered by seeking a wider context or pattern). They may be more interested in future possibilities. They tend to trust those flashes of insight that seem to bubble up from the unconscious mind. The meaning is in how the data relates to the pattern or theory.

[Source]

I've read just a handful of your posts, but what I've read leads me to believe that you tend to buy into some strange beliefs about personality types. (Left handedness means you're an N; if you're intelligent then you're an N; etc.) Very subjective and actually can be proven wrong--which is where a concrete SJ thinks and lives.

I tend not to believe it unless it can be demonstrated, replicated, and determined to be factual, empirically. If you throw a new concept at me, I'm going to sit back and reserve judgment until I can research and determine whether or not it is correct via the above methods. Otherwise, if what you've said agrees with my experiences, I'll agree with you, but if what you've said contradicts my experiences, I'll shoot it down.

We deal in facts. Theory and what ifs are great if they have some relevance to our lives. Otherwise, we'll leave the theoretical musings to the dreamers and get busy with working to make our life and the lives of those around us as enjoyable as we can.

Yes, we can use intuition to deduce what is going on around us, but we don't tend to feel comfortable with it. Instead, we prefer to use our senses to figure out what is happening concretely. So sometimes we seem a little dense, but it is because we don't trust the intuition and want to see something concrete to back up our intuition. OTOH, those that rely on intuition can seem pretty flighty and out in left field when they follow their intuition at the expense of the facts. So sensors can seem dense at times and intuitive thinkers can seem flighty with their head in the clouds.

This is where the basic communication disconnect occurs. Sensors have to work more on trusting some intuitive's ideas, while intuitives have to work more on relating their ideas to concrete reality.

IRL, I get along great with many intuitive types. We just have to try to understand each other a little bit.

HTH
 

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Thanks for the first reply,

Well they are the most common type + they normally form cliques in the work place/instituition. Not being able to get along with them can be seen as a disadvantage
I'm an ESFJ and I'm kind of a loner at work. I'm not really interested in making friends here. Most people here like me... I wish I could say I like most people around here....but a lot of them seem fake, so I am nice and polite, but won't go out of my way to make conversation.
Thanks Man,

You've made me start thinking. And You're probably right. We have to avoid complicated stuff. Probably just talk about our experience, what we've done, i.e. small talk.

It would be nice if an ESTJ can give their thoughts here

ANY ESTJs OUT THERE???:unsure:
Not an ESTJ....but an ESFJ... And I'm not really into small talk. I guess I'm the oddball of my type... I actually like complex and complicated things. :confused: The problem is, I like complex and complicated things that I'm into... For instance, my fiance is most likely an INFP... And he just LOVES math... I could care less, but he thrives on it. So he'll go into great detail about how he figured up blah blah blah (see, I can't even think of an example because my eyes glaze over when he gets into)... When he gets off on that tangent I zone out and stop paying attention. I suppose that could make it difficult to figure us out and what we really do like... but pretty much if you hit on a subject that I have zero interest in I'll just glaze over and stop listening. Bitchy, I know.... But N's can be the same way about small talk. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Niss63,

I think you sum it up nicely :happy:
Being N, we tend to take theoretical informations at a higher weightage. This is probably why we end up making rash decisions and taking dangerous risks. Things normally do not need to be proven before we get a buy in. People (like yourself) may find it strange, but to us it's like getting an 'aha!!' cling in the mind. To us it sounds sooo right...

To some extent this is actually our weakness. See my signature, "Your personality is your weakness":happy: There's nothing to be proud of it

Anyway, can anyone explain whats actually the difference between Si and Se??
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm an ESFJ and I'm kind of a loner at work. I'm not really interested in making friends here. Most people here like me... I wish I could say I like most people around here....but a lot of them seem fake, so I am nice and polite, but won't go out of my way to make conversation.


Not an ESTJ....but an ESFJ... And I'm not really into small talk. I guess I'm the oddball of my type... I actually like complex and complicated things. :confused: The problem is, I like complex and complicated things that I'm into... For instance, my fiance is most likely an INFP... And he just LOVES math... I could care less, but he thrives on it. So he'll go into great detail about how he figured up blah blah blah (see, I can't even think of an example because my eyes glaze over when he gets into)... When he gets off on that tangent I zone out and stop paying attention. I suppose that could make it difficult to figure us out and what we really do like... but pretty much if you hit on a subject that I have zero interest in I'll just glaze over and stop listening. Bitchy, I know.... But N's can be the same way about small talk. :wink:
Wow, this is very interesting. Hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. I'm just genuinely curios. Seriously...

1) How did you score a 74% E if you're not interested to make friends? I think some of the most common E-I questions would be "do you enjoy many friends?"
2) Can you give an example of what is it specifically that you like that is complex and complicated? Can it just be the Fe function complexity instead of an Ni or Ne function?
 

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Wow, this is very interesting. Hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. I'm just genuinely curios. Seriously...

1) How did you score a 74% E if you're not interested to make friends? I think some of the most common E-I questions would be "do you enjoy many friends?"
This is another one of those misconceptions. Extraverts (notice the spelling) are not necessarily friendly and outgoing. They can sometimes be mistaken for introverts.

At the risk of over simplyfing it, in MBTI, extraversion means that you get your energy from outside of yourself while introversion means that you get your energy from within yourself. If you find social interactions be helpful you are extraverted in your energy, while if you find social interactions to be draining, you are introverted in your energy direction.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This is another one of those misconceptions. Extraverts (notice the spelling) are not necessarily friendly and outgoing. They can sometimes be mistaken for introverts.

At the risk of over simplyfing it, in MBTI, extraversion means that you get your energy from outside of yourself while introversion means that you get your energy from within yourself. If you find social interactions be helpful you are extraverted in your energy, while if you find social interactions to be draining, you are introverted in your energy direction.

HTH
What do you mean by "get energy from outside",. I'd really appreciate it if you can explain in layman terms....
Literally, to get energy i just eat food... lol :crazy:

Can you site examples?
 

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What do you mean by "get energy from outside",. I'd really appreciate it if you can explain in layman terms....
Literally, to get energy i just eat food... lol :crazy:

Can you site examples?
That's what I meant by an extravert receiving energy from social situations and interactions whereas an introvert is drained of energy by these activities. The inverse is also true in that extraverts can come away from too much alone time feeling drained and needing social interaction to charge their batteries while the introvert comes away from alone time feeling charged and ready to take on the world.

Since I am a ISTJ, my primary cognitive functions are Si-Te-Fi-Ne. Since my first, or dominant, function is introverted, I tend to get energy from being alone. Without giving myself enough alone time, I can become stressed. This does not mean that I do not need social interaction, but only that too much social interaction will tend to drain my resources. My ENFP wife, OTOH, has a dominant function of Ne, so she is extraverted and gets her batteries charged by social interaction. So after a night out with a group of friends, I just want a book and some alone time, while she is fully charged and wants to stay around me and talk, talk, talk.

I have a friend that is an ESTJ and is an extravert, but is not very extroverted. A bit of a curmudgeon and a Sergeant Major, he can find people a bit insufferable. Yet, he does seek out social interactions quite a bit and does get energy from those interactions. Even those he finds a bit trying.

HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Niss63,

I like your explanation. I can see now that one can be extravert but prefers not to mix around. In Korvyna's case, the people in her work place doesn't seem to appeal to her values. "They are fake" she says. In your friends case, it seems that he's shy or don't have good social skills

It makes me wonder now, since introverts need time to recharge, what do you (ISTJs in particular) think about you're alone? Do you wonder your mind around, like day dreaming or something?
 

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I guess I'm the oddball of my type... I actually like complex and complicated things. :confused: The problem is, I like complex and complicated things that I'm into...
Curious about what kinds of complicated things might interest an ESFJ. Not that I don't believe you. Most of the ESFJ's I've met seem quite eager to delve into intuitive and introverted interests. And they seem to really enjoy personality typology...even the theoretical aspects of it.

Also curious about the whole INFP enjoying Math thing. :shocked:
 

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But I still don't understand what Si is. Can you explain what do you experience when you are using Si?. I know it sounds like a funny question, but seriously it's something I badly wanna know
Well, ever watch Sherlock Holmes? He collect small-unnoticed evidences to solve the mystery. That's how Si works. We see the small details that occurs in physical world, studying it one by one, and collect all the data until we reach enough to have a conclusion of the big picture. We work from bottom to top. Si people usually collects some stuff. I collect stamps, pen from every hotel where I spend the night with, and I also collect little things that reminds me of special occasions in the past, like candle from my 21st surprise birthday party, bracelet from my best friends, greeting cards from my friends, etc.
 
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