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Discussion Starter #1
Were you aware that he believed in it?
Were you aware that he built his theories in conjunction with it?
Were you aware he counseled with it?

Do you feel betrayed?
What do you feel?
What do you think?
Is MBTI worthless, now?

Read his red book, and historical accounts of him, and tell me what you think. I am eternally curious.
 

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Were you aware that he believed in it?
Were you aware that he built his theories in conjunction with it?
Were you aware he counseled with it?

Do you feel betrayed?
What do you feel?
What do you think?
Is MBTI worthless, now?

Read his red book, and historical accounts of him, and tell me what you think. I am eternally curious.

HOLD UP, let me see if I can power through this complex thought.................................................................................................................ah.............................mmm.............................................hmm.................................................................a..m.............................................hm. ah!

you might believe that his curiosity of understanding and belief in astrology may have mislead him into correlating astrology with the 16 types! but probably ney. Im sure his pursuit in discovering the deeper connections of psychology and personality portrayals could have been completely separate ideas considered, rather then his following of astrology ruining this here structure already thriving off of feeling portrayed thoroughly, and independently by the 16 traits.

orrr..... naa
 

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Discussion Starter #3
He actually drew up astrological charts in his counseling sessions.
 

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Were you aware that he believed in it?
Were you aware that he built his theories in conjunction with it?
Were you aware he counseled with it?

Do you feel betrayed?
What do you feel?
What do you think?
Is MBTI worthless, now?

Read his red book, and historical accounts of him, and tell me what you think. I am eternally curious.
No to the first three.

I am curious now. I am wondering what sort of patterns he may have seen that I haven't?
I think MBTI only serves a limited purpose, so worthless, no.
 

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I'm not blown away by the concept of energy, so no.

You're a product of your environment in more ways than the mundane. The universe consists of energy and the place and time of your birth in correlation to that energy would probably have a profound effect upon your thoughts (commonly associated with electrical synapses).

It's not so crazy, afterall.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No to the first three.

I am curious now. I am wondering what sort of patterns he may have seen that I haven't?
I think MBTI only serves a limited purpose, so worthless, no.
I love curiosity. Go forth and discover more than I can. I've been searching and reading for three weeks. It has been a crazy ride.
 
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Were you aware that he believed in it?
Were you aware that he built his theories in conjunction with it?
Were you aware he counseled with it?

Do you feel betrayed?
What do you feel?
What do you think?
Is MBTI worthless, now?

Read his red book, and historical accounts of him, and tell me what you think. I am eternally curious.
 

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Were you aware that he believed in it?
Were you aware that he built his theories in conjunction with it?
Were you aware he counseled with it?

Do you feel betrayed?
What do you feel?
What do you think?
Is MBTI worthless, now?

Read his red book, and historical accounts of him, and tell me what you think. I am eternally curious.
Liber Novus? Yup, I own that. AMAZING book. Worth every penny of the 100$ USD I paid for it off amazon.

Jung was into all kinds of occultism. Alchemy as well.

I don't feel betrayed at all. He based his system off astrology, but his system is not astrology. He based it off a lot of things, not just astrology in fact. Jung believed in a collective unconscious which is the origin of all concepts and symbols, astrology included. He believed that he had found a way to tap into that source, and it was from that which he derived his psychology. Jung would probably argue that his system comes from the same place that all systems come from.
 

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I suspected this when I saw the two terms in the same sentence. It doesn't really bother me that much, but I don't really know how to make sense of since I'm not completely informed on both subjects. Now I'm curious.
 

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Were you aware that he believed in it?
Were you aware that he built his theories in conjunction with it?
Were you aware he counseled with it?

Do you feel betrayed?
What do you feel?
What do you think?
Is MBTI worthless, now?

Read his red book, and historical accounts of him, and tell me what you think. I am eternally curious.

No way! So who can guess my sign?
 

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so...the 12 (now 13) astrological signs (that are off by 6 months) reflect the 16 personality types?

So which personality types are doubling up on months? Or does everyone only get a partial month? And wouldn't that also mean people who share birthdays must then also share personality types?

Yes, this all certainly sounds completely reasonable and not at all like total bullpoo.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Eh... sun sign astrology that is out and about and popular - what everyone knows about astrology is not what Jung subscribed to. It is based on one's natal chart - the placement and time where you were born.

No one can say their natal chart does not apply - everyone can say that sun signs are not who they are.

From what I learned this past Thursday, people who have a lot of air signs in their natal chart are Thinkers, people who have a lot of water signs are Feelers, people who have a lot of Earth signs are sensors, and people who have a lot of Fire signs are intuitive. In the natal chart only.

I want to have an experiment to see how valid these thoughts are, though. Anyone who is brave, send me your birth time, birth date, birth place - all sans name. I will tell you something personal about yourself... to see how closely it describes you. It should be fun, but at the same time I will be able to see why Jung used it. Trying to understand here.

I did it last night with a friend and they were freaked out.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No, Capricorn. Does anybody here believe in astrology?
No. But I want to see why Jung did, personally. Aren't you curious? :D
 

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Eh... sun sign astrology that is out and about and popular - what everyone knows about astrology is not what Jung subscribed to. It is based on one's natal chart - the placement and time where you were born.

No one can say their natal chart does not apply - everyone can say that sun signs are not who they are.

From what I learned this past Thursday, people who have a lot of air signs in their natal chart are Thinkers, people who have a lot of water signs are Feelers, people who have a lot of Earth signs are sensors, and people who have a lot of Fire signs are intuitive. In the natal chart only.

I want to have an experiment to see how valid these thoughts are, though. Anyone who is brave, send me your birth time, birth date, birth place - all sans name. I will tell you something personal about yourself... to see how closely it describes you. It should be fun, but at the same time I will be able to see why Jung used it. Trying to understand here.

I did it last night with a friend and they were freaked out.




 

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Discussion Starter #17
When Moon is in hard aspect to Saturn in the natal chart, natives need to learn to trust others more. Fear keeps them from fully enjoying personal relationships, and fear is behind the occasional rigidity that they express. When they let themselves receive nurture or care from others, an inner voice cautions them that it might not be sincere, long-lasting, or enough! There can be some reluctance about becoming a parent, but once taken on, these people don't take their responsibility lightly.

Emotional reticence is the main theme of these aspects. Many people with this aspect had a lot of conditions placed on the love they received in early childhood. They tend to expect the same later in life. With hard Saturn aspects, individuals are often plagued with doubts, not only about the self but about what to expect from life itself. The problem is that expecting difficulties or negative situations creates an aura around them that perpetuates the problem. They must work hard at positive thinking and expecting more from life. Ironically, many people with hard Saturn aspects can be quite sarcastic, skeptical, and rigid in manner. This is essentially a defense mechanism designed to protect themselves from harshness in the world.

It is extremely likely that they feel neglected because they perceive it in the first place, and later expect it, to be the case. There's a vicious circle going on here that can only be broken when the patterns created by negative conditioning are broken. Adjusting one's perceptions and expectations is the key to breaking out of these negative patterns. Otherwise, natives of hard Moon-Saturn aspects will live life feeling left out--attracting circumstances that perpetuate a feeling of deep unhappiness and dissatisfaction.

I picked a moon aspect because we're INTJ. [Although you have a lot of earth signs.... o_O]

I don't comprehend all of those other charts, only the first and that little chart at the bottom.
 

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I just want to add a disclaimer here, that I have no idea how to read my natal chart.

So, assume I have no understanding of astrology at all.

Because I don't, lol.
 

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I just want to add a disclaimer here, that I have no idea how to read my natal chart.

So, assume I have no understanding of astrology at all.

Because I don't, lol.
Heh, I learned this past week. I catch on pretty quickly. :p But my head is so full of stuff I can't absorb anymore. But I will learn why Jung subscribed to it. And try to understand why nothing was untrue in my chart.

That little chart at the bottom of the first - what you do is:

Understand that each planet is aspected to each other. Learn the planet signs. From the top, move down the column to an aspect [symbol such as square or triangle], and then to the right. ie, Moon Square Saturn. Then plug that into google and read about Moon square Saturn.
 

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Jung fleshed out the theory with the concept of cognitive functions, but, as Keirsey pointed out in Please Understand Me II, he wasn't the first person to observe the traits that identify the "four groups" of types or whatever. Hippocrates, Plato, Galen, Aristotle all made relatable observations about human nature. Interestingly, the Roman physician Galen, when developing the ideas of Hippocrates, proposed that it is neither the stars nor the gods that determine what we want and what we do; rather it is the balance of our bodily fluids, the four "humors", as they were called. Hence the likely familiar names Sanguine, Melancholic, Choleric, Phlegmatic. Anyway, my point (which I can hopefully present intelligably - here's to hoping) is that the concept of the "four temperaments" has a long history and, in the past represented a "breaking away" from Astrology. So just because Jung looked for correllations doesn't mean the theory of cognitive functions originated from the ideas surrounding Astrology. Hopefully that makes sense. :happy:
 
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