[neutralchaotic]

Without going into a huge amount of detail, I have reason to believe a friendship with an ENFJ friend of mine is not quite as platonic as it used to be. Normally I would chalk this up to his personality, because he's very flirty in nature, but I can't shake the feeling that he's not entirely clowning around, because his statements pertaining to romance / relationships / dating (and this happens in 9 out of 10 conversations we have) always specifically describe traits and experiences of mine, and he has zero trouble calling me his fake girlfriend though I know he told me he's done with people for now. ..we also speak the least (relative) out of our friend group, but I've only seen him be stronger with his flirting when it comes to me.

The catch is I think we both know we have some compatibility issues (he made a specific comment that touched on a reason I'm hesitant to move forward with him). On top of that, I'm still sorting out my feelings for him (the physical attraction is most definitely there, however), so I'm not sure of the best way to approach this. Could I stay silent, since he seems to be reading my mind and emotions quite well so far? Or just tell him I've been conflicted as of late, and would like to clarify where we stand?

 

[HGy]

It doesnt sound like he wants more than friendship with you right now

 

[neutralchaotic]

@HGy - ok then that would point me to the route of not saying anything..which is likely a good thing.

 

[Robert2928]

Without any details it's really hard to even comment on this...but that's not going to stop me from doing so that way I can reach 1000 posts one day lol

Look man, from a guy's perceptive EVERYTHING that I do can been seen as flirting from a woman. Seriously. It's annoying. Before women find out I am married they have this "defensive shield up" swearing up and down I'm interested in them in some way. *Spoiler Alert 98% I'm not* Just being freindly is seen as flirting so when you are talking about a "flirtationship" it literally could just be in your head and the guy really has no interest in you.

Even when it comes to the "fake girlfriend" thing it literally could be trolling. One of the EASIEST way to get an emotional reaction from people is to imply a romantic relationship with them that doesn't exist. It makes people "uncomfortable" and watching them squirm can be entertaining for Fe users. It's in a similar category as claiming a person that someone hates is their "best friend" or a hated song is their "favorite song"

All speculation on my part since I don't know the details however I still believe these are things worth considering.

 

[bachsgirl]

Hard to comment with out specifics ....... but I will give you this - I certainly know in my experience, even if I'm not flirting, people think I'm flirting with them. Its in our nature to make people feel good about themselves and its often misconstrued. And it can be annoying...anyway I digress.

I would wait and see how this plays out. Definitely don't confront him, where is the fun in that for now?!

 

[clem]

Haha some people especially ENFJ can be like that. They give off these vibes to try to make people feel better. Many times their Fe tells them that they should puff up a friend's self esteem but then it comes off wrong when they overdo it. So its a white lie then when some people flirt that there is genuine attraction. They do it just to make other's feel better about their attractiveness. They often complement me on clothes, on my art, on random stuff, but I think its mostly to maintain social harmony and make the mood better. They prioritize social cohesion over what they truly think of you. They are highly skilled at being patronizing without it coming off that way. But when I do it back to them, they don't always take it well and sometimes say I am just being patronizing. I tried to copy that technique but don't do it convincingly. So I just expressly state that "we are good friends", "we have good social harmony", "we work well together", "we have a spirit of cooperation", etc.
@neutralchaotic Can you tell me what he says? I am curious to learn the details of this amorphous art.

 

[neutralchaotic]

@bachsgirl @Robert2928 - Thanks for the replies!

Hmm...some quips from two weeks ago:

• Recites a poem on the spot about a girl 'giving him a chance because he's an atheist' and saying he thinks they would work for each other (for what it's worth, it was 2nd person)
• we're just chatting and he says something then goes "Aren't I the best fake boyfriend ever?" // some of our coworkers were around listening to our banter and when I turned my back they asked if there was something between us, ENFJ says no it's just pretend, and when I come back he says [neutralchaotic, thanks for feeding into my delusions, I don't know why you do it to yourself] // minutes later he's being really flowery and praising me with a smirk in front of my friends, I give him an exasperated sigh and he says "Not at work? Aren't I such a troll?" :tongue:

yesterday

• Completely blanked out introducing me to his friend. so the friend joked that he didn't even know my name and I told him 'that's why we're just friends' and ENFJ goes "is that the only reason why?"
• I stood behind ENFJ while he was sitting and he leaned back into my chest and was just chilling, I asked ENFJ why and he sat up and went "I don't know, don't ask me questions I don't know the answer to, etc." (we've had similar conversations about four times now), and so he sat up and said to himself "Now I feel flustered and I don't know why"
• A lot of touchy-feely stuff, most definitely not out of the norm within our friend circle but he's never been like that with me until recently, and even hugged me before leaving yesterday. Chalking that up as being comfortable with me the past month and a half.

I was satisfied with that 'it's pretend' comment, but him continuing to bring up our 'fake relationship' even though it wasn't something that he could 'bother' me with is...interesting to say the least.

Haha some people especially ENFJ can be like that. They give off these vibes to try to make people feel better. Many times their Fe tells them that they should puff up a friend's self esteem but then it comes off wrong when they overdo it. So its a white lie then when some people flirt that there is genuine attraction. They do it just to make other's feel better about their attractiveness. They often complement me on clothes, on my art, on random stuff, but I think its mostly to maintain social harmony and make the mood better. They prioritize social cohesion over what they truly think of you. They are highly skilled at being patronizing without it coming off that way. But when I do it back to them, they don't always take it well and sometimes say I am just being patronizing. I tried to copy that technique but don't do it convincingly. So I just expressly state that "we are good friends", "we have good social harmony", "we work well together", "we have a spirit of cooperation", etc.
@neutralchaotic Can you tell me what he says? I am curious to learn the details of this amorphous art.

Yep, he's always complimented me from the beginning (since February), so I never took that into consideration. He's said several times recently that there's things he doesn't know about me, and I think that's something making him zone in on me, because I'm not nearly as open as the others in our friend circle. As of late he's told me that he likes pushing my buttons and getting me riled up, and he'll sit there in complete GLEE when I'm exasperated / half-annoyed / perplexed by a statement or question of his.

I'd figure he was just pretty flirty, save for the weird looks at me out of the blue (it's hard to describe but he looks 'lost' for a few seconds like he's debating on saying something else, keeping intense eye contact, and then he'll look away hurriedly when he snaps to), and our talks going from pleasantries to 'have you ever been in love before, neutralchaotic?'

All in all, it's a ride. If it's not a f*** yeah, it's a soft no concerning how I feel about moving past a friendship, so I'm fine with this, but it'd be nice to know what the hell he's been on about in the last six weeks. It's so hard to get a straight answer from him about ANYTHING. This has always been my problem with Fe users, though.

 

[Robert2928]

Hard to comment with out specifics ....... but I will give you this - I certainly know in my experience, even if I'm not flirting, people think I'm flirting with them. Its in our nature to make people feel good about themselves and its often misconstrued. And it can be annoying...anyway I digress.

I would wait and see how this plays out. Definitely don't confront him, where is the fun in that for now?!

You are right about it being annoying. Back around 2011 I met this girl I went to middle school with. We started talk so I thought she wanted to be friends so...first thing I wanted to do was make sure she didn't have some secret crush (when she seen me again she was hella friendly despite us not being that close so yeah...especially after not seeing each other since like 2003?) on me to prevent an awkward situation.

I'm rather blunt so I started asking questions and whatnotto see what she thought about me and she start telling me how "she thought I was cool but she just found a guy and it was getting serious "or something and I was like "WTF does that have to do with anyth-omg she thinks I'm asking her out" LMAO

Afterwards I clarified that I was NOT asking her out. Needless to say we don't talk anymore. I think we both mutually avoid one another now and I'm fine with that!!!!XD

 

[bachsgirl]

Haha some people especially ENFJ can be like that. They give off these vibes to try to make people feel better. Many times their Fe tells them that they should puff up a friend's self esteem but then it comes off wrong when they overdo it. So its a white lie then when some people flirt that there is genuine attraction. They do it just to make other's feel better about their attractiveness. They often complement me on clothes, on my art, on random stuff, but I think its mostly to maintain social harmony and make the mood better. They prioritize social cohesion over what they truly think of you. They are highly skilled at being patronizing without it coming off that way. But when I do it back to them, they don't always take it well and sometimes say I am just being patronizing. I tried to copy that technique but don't do it convincingly. So I just expressly state that "we are good friends", "we have good social harmony", "we work well together", "we have a spirit of cooperation", etc.
@neutralchaotic Can you tell me what he says? I am curious to learn the details of this amorphous art.

I do this all the time!! As soon as I am introduced to someone - bam - I am automatically looking for a compliment I can give them. As though - "Hello, nice to meet you," isn't enough. No, I have to find something that will make them feel good about themselves...

 

[bachsgirl]

You are right about it being annoying. Back around 2011 I met this girl I went to middle school with. We started talk so I thought she wanted to be friends so...first thing I wanted to do was make sure she didn't have some secret crush (when she seen me again she was hella friendly despite us not being that close so yeah...especially after not seeing each other since like 2003?) on me to prevent an awkward situation.

I'm rather blunt so I started asking questions and whatnotto see what she thought about me and she start telling me how "she thought I was cool but she just found a guy and it was getting serious "or something and I was like "WTF does that have to do with anyth-omg she thinks I'm asking her out" LMAO

Afterwards I clarified that I was NOT asking her out. Needless to say we don't talk anymore. I think we both mutually avoid one another now and I'm fine with that!!!!XD

Ha - I know how that feels. Years ago I had an awkward situation with a new co worker. I thought I was been welcoming and friendly. He thought I was flirting with him and complained to our mutual boss. When my boss talked to me about it all I could say was "But I'm like that with everyone!" - his response, "That's true, how about you tone that down then..." Sigh.

 

[clem]

Thanks for the specifics, I should try some of that out sparingly, but just to tone down my hard logical exterior. I still wish I could do that compliment thing convincingly though.

That seems like alot of targeted attention even for an ENFJ. Though the compliments are kinda standard fare, I think they wouldn't be that much unless he wanted you to know he was attracted to you. With friends they only do it sporadically, not like all the time like in your case. So this must be his way to say it without being scary, except that it is a little. You probably want to be just friends for now and he can probably feel that so he is being invasive, I mean flirty.

I know some ENFJ x INFP couples and its like the ENFJ is always chasing the INFP even after being married for several years. They are naturally drawn to each other. The Fe is drawn to the Fi because it wants the good feels. The INFP likes the ENFJ intensity so is drawn to the fire, but then it can be too intense.

 

[neutralchaotic]

Thanks for the specifics, I should try some of that out sparingly, but just to tone down my hard logical exterior. I still wish I could do that compliment thing convincingly though.

That seems like alot of targeted attention even for an ENFJ. Though the compliments are kinda standard fare, I think they wouldn't be that much unless he wanted you to know he was attracted to you. With friends they only do it sporadically, not like all the time like in your case. So this must be his way to say it without being scary, except that it is a little. You probably want to be just friends for now and he can probably feel that so he is being invasive, I mean flirty.

I know some ENFJ x INFP couples and its like the ENFJ is always chasing the INFP even after being married for several years. They are naturally drawn to each other. The Fe is drawn to the Fi because it wants the good feels. The INFP likes the ENFJ intensity so is drawn to the fire, but then it can be too intense.

Wow..then I really hate him. :tongue: I think his game got to both me and him. It led me to believe this is how he ALWAYS acts, so now I've started accepting that and tossing it back...but he could see this as me being interested beyond friendship. Wow, my head hurts! I feel really blind to it all now, but him going through his breakup months back and his stance on not wanting a relationship now is utterly confusing, and something I absolutely don't want. He asked me about previous relationships today...I really feel like I should've seen that coming. But we both know he has stuff to sort out emotionally, and I think he knows my other reasons for not dating him because they've come out (not explicitly but he's hinted very strongly at them). Case of possibly right person, but just wrong time in all areas (especially because a main reason for me wanting friendship is that I am highly interested in someone else!)

I can see how that dynamic would play out. I feel like ENFJ is always so "ON" except for the times he's hurting and withdrawn (and that's extremely painful for me to watch), and it's a bit overwhelming because I'll never be able to match that. It's an odd feeling of seeing ourselves be a great match on paper, but knowing in person that I can't give him what he needs and might never be able to. I told him today that I don't like to make mistakes, he started talking about experience, etc. and I told him plainly I don't think experience is always necessary to know whether something is right or wrong. I wonder if he took that in regards to changing the level of our friendship.

ENFJs are deeper than me...this is so weird.