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Hello, I think Calàf is esfp.
How would you type La Traviata and Tosca?
I view Violetta as an infx (Sounds like she has Ni in Addio, del passato.) And Alfredo as infp.
Tosca : I see a lot of Fi
Mario : Not sure
these are operas i haven't seen more than once, if at all. and i'm pretty type-blind when it comes to sensors and extraverts (i.e. most of the types). but i like this idea of calaf, and what i've seen of traviata makes violetta as infj plausible too. the manner of what the guy's father appealed to in her to get her to give him up fits right in.

turandot though; i'd say no. no intj i've ever had that mind-click with would ever engage in such a ridiculous level of gamesiness. i mean, could there even be a longer (or a more gratuitous way) to accomplish a goal? there could not. and talk about passive aggression as well :p. beheading people for failing out of a party game? come on.

and if i were in her shoes having made a deal with calaf i would not a) cheat, or b) torture a completely innocent bystander to try and force my way into a win. i mean, that's just fundamental intj operating rules. whatever she is, to me she came across as just crazy af.

final point: the whole premise of her being asexual is a) grounded in a sort of second-hand ptsd so not inherent to her own temperament, and b) the sort of superficial thing people attribute to intjs. demi- or sapio-sexual might fit a lot of us, but in her case it's not like anything calaf does or says is designed to get him into the wheelhouse on either one of those things anyway.

i'd nominate lucia's brother whose-name-escapes-me as one possible intj though. it's the singlemindedness to begin with followed by the remorse. that could all be based on the ways that i've seen him played though.

and is it simplistic to see the figaro of barber as entp? he's unsinkable.
 

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and is it simplistic to see the figaro of barber as entp? he's unsinkable.
I see him as an entp, his ability to think of the plans makes it sounds like he has a lot of Ne, but he doesn’t sound like a feeler.
I’m also thinking of the count. All I know is that he is an xxfx.
Rosina could probably be an enfp.
 

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I see him as an entp, his ability to think of the plans makes it sounds like he has a lot of Ne, but he doesn’t sound like a feeler.
\o/ someone agrees \o/ the plotting, exactly. it's got that springs-bursting-out-all-over-the-place jack-in-the-box thing that i get off a lot of entps. and the feeler point is a very good catch. he's quick, so he grasps things like faking drunkenness as a cover for the gatecrashing thing. and he grasps what almaviva wants right away. he just isn't into the individual feels or psychology of it; it's social-system thinking rather than individual psychology. when i approach it that way, the dynamic of him plus ol' soulful slightly-drippy lute-playing almaviva becomes very funny. again i'm probably coloured by who i've seen singing almaviva, but i think he's an sf of some kind for sure. the performers and individual interpretations do make such a huge difference.

i don't think rosina's an enfp, but i'm not too sure what she could be instead. i tend to skip the soprano sections a bit, so i don't know of her really saying or doing too much either way. but i wouldn't type her just off that one sono docile thing.

i'm watching today's met stream elisir d'amore and i'd definitely consider adina for that typing though. that's based off pretty yende's performance of her.
 

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Me too, let’s see if we would have the same opinion or her or not. I am wondering if the productions and the performers’ personality effect the way each character is portrayed.
 

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Me too, let’s see if we would have the same opinion or her or not.
same opinion of adina? you first :D

I am wondering if the productions and the performers’ personality effect the way each character is portrayed.
i think it matters a lot, because the foundation of opera is story. i mean, maybe the story is just a pretext for the music at times, but it's still there. maybe if i were a more purely musical person or more musically educated i wouldn't see it that way. but i'm more of a reader so i do really look for narrative coherence, and i look guidelines from the performance on how to feel about these people.

i think you see the range most of all in the villains. or you want to. i always try to find some vulnerabililty, or at least some degree of dimension, to the villians. for instance, my 'first' opera was il trovatore, and it was di luna and azucena who captured me.

it's pretty hard to type a personality disorder or an outright psychosis, after all :p
 

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Adina is quite hard for me to type, perhaps it’s because L’elixir d’amore is a comedy.
She seems to be an extrovert, with Fi as one of her functions. She could be an exxp, in my opinion.
  1. She certainly does seem extroverted. Very confident too. I thought enfp off the bat based on her professed opinion of how to relationship right in act 1, but that's a pretty shallow reason. She's like Carmen's non evil twin. Her affection and concern for nemerino distinct from his feels about her was a neat twist in this one. But on reflection, I might think she's fe. She seems to be a bit of a caretaker in her little community.
 

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  1. She certainly does seem extroverted. Very confident too. I thought enfp off the bat based on her professed opinion of how to relationship right in act 1, but that's a pretty shallow reason. She's like Carmen's non evil twin. Her affection and concern for nemerino distinct from his feels about her was a neat twist in this one. But on reflection, I might think she's fe. She seems to be a bit of a caretaker in her little community.
Can she be an enfj? Even though she seems “capricious”. She doesn’t sound like the NT or the SJ. That would leave enfj enfp esfp estp. If she used fe then she could be enfj or estp.
However, I feel like esfj is a little bit possible.
 

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Can she be an enfj? Even though she seems “capricious”. She doesn’t sound like the NT or the SJ. That would leave enfj enfp esfp estp. If she used fe then she could be enfj or estp.
However, I feel like esfj is a little bit possible.
Could easily be; my problem is I have no clue if I've ever known any esfjs. I have nothing to go by but personal invention.

She maintains relationships with the whole community. She has a friendship with nemerino and keeps trying to counsel him for the sake of his own wellbeing - as opposed to just being all 'get one and leave me alone'. I'm not the only fi user in the world, but in her shoes I would not be doing that as to me it's mixing the messages. So to me she does ping strongly as having fe. But who knows.

I just listened to Tosca last night: I couldn't. I don't get what grabs people in that one at all.
 

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I just listened to Tosca last night: I couldn't. I don't get what grabs people in that one at all.
I always find every parts of music in act 1 overwhelming. The act 2 is full of anger and stress, so emotional. That’s why I like the opera. The couple believed they were going to be happy, but all of that shattered at the moment the gunshotswere heard. Tosca tried to do everything she could do for her love. She is usually viewed as a selfish woman. At first I thought so, but I cannot ignore the fact that she is a passionate one.

About Adina, I know two esfjs, but not that well. However, I know an enfj and I can tell you that she is different from Adina.
 

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I always find every parts of music in act 1 overwhelming. The act 2 is full of anger and stress, so emotional.
i only 'know' a handful of operas. namely: trovatore, rigoletto, fille du regiment, barber, lucia, puritani (slightly), sonnambula and more recently cenerentola, i suppose. i've heard or watched others, but they didn't leave any impression on me. i've actually tried, with some of them :p because my first two were verdi i thought i would like all things verdi, for instance. but no.

for me, if the musical side is not there, i'm not into it. i can read the librettos and frequently do. but the whole reason why i'll go hunt down the words and get to know the entire work intimately is because some particular part of it got me by the throat and i couldn't leave it alone. i'm a little embarrassed to say my entire opera involvement such as it is, was all started by this

tosca was one of those ones where nothing struck me. i had it up in the background while working, to give the music a chance on its own. but maybe i'm just not in the right place right now.

About Adina, I know two esfjs, but not that well. However, I know an enfj and I can tell you that she is different from Adina.
hmmm.
 

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I don’t know if you have tried “Le Conte Ory” already or not, but I think Adina sounds similar to The countess Adèle in this one. I don’t see much Ni in both characters but I still see a lot of Fe (I know I said Fi, but when I read the libretto again...) . That’s why I guess Adina is esfj.

I was thinking about typing Lucia and Leonora....

Oh, don’t be embarrassed. My interest in opera started by scrolling down Instagram.
I was drowned into everything I heard and saw.
 

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i only 'know' a handful of operas. namely: trovatore, rigoletto, fille du regiment, barber, lucia, puritani (slightly), sonnambula and more recently cenerentola.
Begin with Lucia. I cannot really tell if she is Fi or Fe user. Quite expressive but feels things deeply at the same time. Perhaps it was because she was with Alisa who was probably very close to her, so she could be expressive there, in the first act. While she was “hallucinating” about Edgardo, it made she sounds like an Ne user. So I think she is definitely an NF (in my opinion.) Maybe infp. She doesn’t sound really like enfp, isfp or esfp.(Who have F(I) as one of their main functions) (F seems to be her secondary or dominant function, I’m not sure)
I will continue about Leonora later.
 

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Begin with Lucia. [...] I think she is definitely an NF (in my opinion.)
i wonder if she could be intp. they can be sort of fragile and otherworldly, especially when they're young. and they care about things a lot more than their external presentation might let you know.

one of the problems with opera is it skews so many of the women towards that saintly passive/selfless fe-ish presentation. i can't seem to think of a single angry female protagonist who has been [or thinks she's been] wronged.... maybe if i had given tosca that hearing, i guess 😉. but most of the female principals seem to just double down. and down, and down, and down . . . looking at you, gilda.

something about lucia strikes me as different though. the whole opera grips me because there is so much disjointed compassion in it. the wedding scene is the centre of that. i always see chi me frena as the eye of a kind of hurricane. it's this sort of strange stillness point in the midst of it all where everyone in it is all about her; even edgardo. even her brother. it's the only point where everyone is on the same page. and then six minutes later all the polarities switch and the whole thing really starts to unspool. and that's the point where lucia is all about him and his grief.

i guess what strikes me about lucia as an opera is: it doesn't seem to have a static internal baseline. the entire thing follows extremity instead of personages. if you track the behaviour of lucia's brother and also the chorus towards edgardo, you can see that there's recognition of the common-humanity factor across all the basic 'side' boundaries.

really interested to know what you make of leonora. i haz my own thoughts but i'll keep them to myself for now.
 

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Would you like to join us, I don’t mind. What would @lilysocks say?
Thanks for the invite but when I was after operas (two favorites Tosca and Lucia) I wasn't thinking personality types and in my opera thread no one seemed interested as I got no replies. However I could change my mind.

What I recall is after a while every lover seems so absolute. There always was a line in there saying they would die rather than be denied. I wondered how much this was romance rather than just a different time period. I wondered if the composers were following a plot fashion or copying each other's plots for the sake of the music. IOW were they real people or not? Today no one dies for love ... you've got to be kidding me. Operas are 100 percent emotions and musical messages.
 

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i wonder if she could be intp. they can be sort of fragile and otherworldly, especially when they're young. and they care about things a lot more than their external presentation might let you know.
Yes, she could. Based on my personal experience, intp could be unexpectedly soft. Lucia surrendered to the evidence which her brother used for convincing her about Edgardo’s unfaithfulness towards their love. And doesn’t seem to hesitate until she saw the evidence. She exchanged her ring with Edgardo as a bond between them. “When I am near him, heaven opens up for me.” Sounds like Ti. (Quite a girly Ti.) Even though I notice a little Se from her aria in act two, but all of them was her imagination, I think I will drop that. She was using Ne. If I recalled it correctly, she said something like “God, save him in this furious moment” during the wedding. I presume this could show her inferior Fe which came out in a very stressful situation like that.

Lucia doesn’t seem like Te user. I completely forgot that the Ne users in NF group have Te in their functions. So yes, she could pranayama be an intp. When it comes to love, thinker or feeler, it doesn’t matter anymore. The characters seem to do anything for it.

Leonora is a hard one for me. I didn’t expect her to be hard to type. Yes, I agree that female protagonists in operas are Fe ish. However, Leonora seemed to have Fe in her. (Except when she talked to Ines, which shows that she is determined and makes her sounds a bit like Si user) Even though her plan about letting the Count has her as a corpse was quite uncommon, but it doesn’t really show Ne. I would like to say that she is not a Ne user. I cannot tell much.

I like how the characters can be viewed in several points and differently.

Have you read “The bride of Lammermoor”, I would love to read it, but couldn’t find it yet. Lucy Ashton and Edgar Ravenswood.
 

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However I could change my mind.
tease.

Operas are 100 percent emotions and musical messages.
i agree. they're pretty archetypal ... or some word of that kind. there used to be this thing people would do for entertainment, in english country houses at least. where they'd spend enormous amounts of time just dressing themselves up and arranging themselves into some kind of 'tableau' for the rest of the group. very static, and kind of representational. britannia ruling the waves. vercingetorex surrenders to caesar. that kind of thing. talk about a first-world version of entertainment.

i think a lot of opera is from the same thing. they're often just a sequence of static tableaux strung together by some kind of plot. there's different 'types' of tableau, within that. don't quote me (i'm guessing/inferring), but the way i currently organize it is: within the bel canto genre music itself is a driving consideration. then there's 'grand' operas where purely visual show is a major factor.

and some are just really big on the emo-tableau. in terms of internal character consistency . . . let's just say that i think it sometimes goes under the bus. for instance, [i personally] think rigoletto is one of the truly greats is because it does have that consistency. it's a psychological drama in a much-more-real sense. the characters don't just take up a series of different emotional poses that are each fine in themselves but come across as a little disjointed when you try to string them together as a whole.

not really sure where i'm going with this. but yes, i think the 'fidelity' rule is a real thing. it's part of the whole courtly-love convention. and for the women characters in particular, it's very active and real. self-respect and self-assertion to the extent of 'NO i'm not killing myself over love' . . . that would put her on the bad side of the madonna-whore line for sure.
 
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