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Discussion Starter #1
Reading and thinking some, I seem to lean on two types, but need to ask for some help: tests online, and some thinking makes these two as possible my types, but I dont understand the system well enough to differentiate them.

9w1sx seems likely due to suppression of anger and the basic role, while 4w5sp, well, I might be quite close to an 5, but feel I really is not a 5. At all.
So, what is the main differences between these two?
 

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Hi Starshade

I can follow very well. I my first year with the Enneagram I mistyped a 4w5 I was seeing regularly for a 9. Stretching and squeezing the Enneagram that it fit my believes. : )

And two weeks ago I found out that a friend, a 9 himself, had mistyped one of his friends as a 9. I knew this friend only from his recollections and got a bit curious about his typing because - what was it again...

This friend of the friend, he had stuff in his apartment that made clear to me that this was the home of someone with a strong focus of his need to be seen. The way others perceive you is the main focus of the heart types 2,3, and 4. And he was pointing to the deep and dark sides of a person. That's two things that point directly to the core of the four I think.

On the other hand nines male or female are sweet, friendly, adaptable and maybe except for the social one - very calm. I think that here you see the difference very good with a bit of experience. Fours are not sweet how I perceive it. Women fours (w3) can be very sweet but it comes together with the typical strong display of emotions. And on another day they're not sweet anymore but go very deep into frustration, anger, depression.

Nines are the most balanced and psychologically stable type. Fours are one of the least.

Fours get angry easily, they have not a lot of fear or shame around being angry. Nines are almost incapable to get into it. They need your help to realise their angry and their allowance to be angry and then they might be able to show it. It's a big and difficult task for them to learn on their growth path. The fours anger is a lot about shaming those they have idealised up to this moment as some kind of flawless, superior people and when something you do is not compatible with their image of you then they let you know that they are extremely disappointed. - And you are like. What the fuck. I never claimed to be that person in the first place.

9s idealise too. But their constantly a little bit in love with you (and everybody else). Not on and off like the fours who can be very picky as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Adaptable, perhaps… But, friendly? I used to be the nerd in the corner not talking to all ppl, associating with male 5s. i think..
But, I dont think I'm a core 5, and was spending time in a hopeless situation of despair for myself, brooding, but always keeping up a sort of face.
I feel I don't get what is meant by 'reactivity', people keep telling me I'm intelligent, and liking reading, I know things, so I'm 5?
Do not think I'm the typical "INTP" ish 5, I'm definitively a NF, and the 5 people, as I understand it, is way less empathic.

I have in bad periods self-isolated in geekdom with games or reading fantasy/scifi, and being something of an empathic sponge I think 4-9 axis seem probable in some way or another. I might be a One-on-One type of person developing incredible patience, while being easily angry at others at same time. If I'm needed, and I need to be the peacekeeper and the patient one, I can. No biggie. It was not always obvious earlier though, and I had a strong sense of right or wrong, ethics at a young age.

I am, not typically "sweet" in any way, and had to work on it after getting into an depression I had ppl around me needing to treat me cautious, I'm sorry to say. I'm in a way logical as a One, but I have done stuff as taking critic for things I have not done, and simply turn quiet. I dont think I am reacting principled as a One in stress, as the triads tell..
On other hand, I do care somehow about my image, I try keep the image of others up, when they don't care, and have done extremely much to fix my life after exiting the depression. Though, depressions all types can suffer..
I have consciously built my self-image in small ways, clothes, what I do, social media, etc. Not *because* of my image, but, I do know I have stolen others style, in small ways.

In a way, I detested being common, ordinary life. I think I lost jobs due to it, and I thought I'd fit into adult life quite easy as all other, but something was a bit off; I thought it because of my family having issues in some way, and me protecting them, suffering due to it in late teens. But now, I think I wanted something, just being a bit immature and not realizing what I wanted with my life, or finding my niche. I understand now working with people, helping others, is something I enjoy.

What is the typical behaviour of the Reactive triad? Not quite sure about that, examples?
 

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Adaptable, perhaps… But, friendly? I used to be the nerd in the corner not talking to all ppl, associating with male 5s. i think..
But, I dont think I'm a core 5, and was spending time in a hopeless situation of despair for myself, brooding, but always keeping up a sort of face.
I feel I don't get what is meant by 'reactivity', people keep telling me I'm intelligent, and liking reading, I know things, so I'm 5?
Do not think I'm the typical "INTP" ish 5, I'm definitively a NF, and the 5 people, as I understand it, is way less empathic.

I am, not typically "sweet" in any way, and had to work on it after getting into an depression I had ppl around me needing to treat me cautious, I'm sorry to say. I'm in a way logical as a One, but I have done stuff as taking critic for things I have not done, and simply turn quiet. I dont think I am reacting principled as a One in stress, as the triads tell.
Ugh. Sengai's going off of some weird stereotypes like they always do. They seem to type everyone as a 4 or 5 for some odd reason, and keep spreading these misconceptions around people who are new to enneagram. 4s and 5s are nowhere near as common as Sengai thinks they are.

Anyway, it is not a necessity for 9s to be "sweet" (WTF is this idea anyway, absolutely horrible). 9s are part of the withdrawn triad. A lot of introvert 9s I know are adaptable but closed-off. And they are most definitely 9s, they resonate deeply with the core fears and motivations.

You can also be a 9 even if you are not sweet and friendly. You need to think about other things as well.

On other hand, I do care somehow about my image, I try keep the image of others up, when they don't care, and have done extremely much to fix my life after exiting the depression. Though, depressions all types can suffer..
I have consciously built my self-image in small ways, clothes, what I do, social media, etc. Not *because* of my image, but, I do know I have stolen others style, in small ways.
This is not 4w5 sp at all. Building a self-image is more related to type 3, so I think 4w3 would be a bigger likelihood for you. (A lot of introvert 4w3s mistype as 4w5.)

What is the typical behaviour of the Reactive triad? Not quite sure about that, examples?
Sengai was right about 4s being a reactive type, unlike 9s.

Here's an okay description of the reactive triad: Enneagram Harmonics

I recommend looking at the other triads. If you're torn between two types, thinking about triads may help.

Anyway, the best way to determine your type is not to look at horribly written stereotype descriptions (like 9s being sweet, sorry but I am horribly annoyed by this stereotype), but to look at the core behaviors, motivations, and fears. Think deeply about how they relate to your life and actions. How do these resonate with you?

4 - Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an identity)

9 - Basic Fear: Of loss and separation
Basic Desire: To have inner stability "peace of mind"
(9's basic fear has always been worded kind of weirdly, so I always recommend this article for clarification https://www.personalitycafe.com/type-9-forum-peacemaker/148336-type-9-down-rabbit-hole.html)
 

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I could see 4w3, 5 or 9w1.

But honestly, we don't get to know you a lot here. You write around the type descriptions and you try to see where your personality and life fits in there. That's not a bad thing, but usually it's not very raw and real, so it's different for others to type you.

Try to forget everything you know about types and write something about what you like to do in your free time and especially why. What do you fear in life? Why do you do the things you do? What doy ou avoid? What are you trying to achieve? What do you deeply desire? Not knowing why you do things is also a possible answer, try to not stress when answering. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It's not always helpful, since, if ones life is not really authentic, how would one expect it easy to figure out?
I have done diverse martial arts, partially i like the style of training, the most "introverted" possible social sports, I also like culture, even taking courses in anthropology at Uni as optional topics.
In Capoeira, some freak accident happened: the Master called me up in the "belt ceremony", I thought I was to get a new belt, my buddies from the club thought I was to get new belt. My club trainer thought, I would get belt.

I didn't, the master looked at his notes, and, sent me down again. My club mates were chocked. I was just confused. They were thinking I was taking it bad, and their reactions was clearly, thinking my reaction would be bad.

Me? I had a bad, bad, bad week. Exhausted, had a lousy day, almost been in collision in traffic, I was happy to be safe and sound. I did not deserve the belt, didnt need it, having trained *OTHER*, non-capeoira MAs from asia, most of those is ego driven, nationalistic machinery fueling the desires for grandeur of a tiny elite. One earlier TKD club had even got into North vs South korea issues, where our master lived in exile in Canda from South Korea, which had 2 "big men" on fast-track to dictatorships in both North and South a while, the one in south a bit "Hitler" ish (agents in Europe, kidnappings, murders), etc. Baaaad.

I sat home the day after, enjoying a morning, and got bombed with messages from ppl thinking me sad for not getting a belt. Hilarious memory. I understand they were picking up on me having a bad time, but, I were I prepared for a new belt, I didn't deserve it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Right never tell half tales; in my childhood I did train Taekwon Do, and after not training for some years, I randomly talked to a guy, knowing he did train TKD, and asked how my old TKD federation was doing, he: "didnt you hear? The son of the General (founder was 4 star general in S. Korea once), gave himself 5 belt graduations in one day, stole all money and fled to North Korea! All got angry and quit! They formed a new National federation."
Right, even not training you dont *quit*, but that moment it was done. Most of the bad tales I learned afterwards, giving me a more nuanced view on the strange world we live in, but I like reading, so I know things. This is in a way typical of me, but I typically is optimistic, or try to be.

I got a job as social contact for an Autist, which means lots for me. I think I am more into "one to one" type relationships than crowd relations, but surprised myself getting the job, doing well. I think I seem to have eternal patience and is good at listening, talking about virtually anything, etc. Communicating to someone not on "our" level seems hard, in my case it looks like I from time to time can intuit the way he things, so our relation works splendid, even if he could drive others nuts easily.

Right, as a person, I'm a bit knowledge focused, in some ways. I do not think I am perceived generally by all as a nurturer, rather a computer nerd. I seem to hit of good relations with some, others not and probably appearing cold, which is something I need to be better at. Might be taking more than I give, in warmth. Seem to have an habit to imagine conversations, events, doing things with people, things I want but which is not always realistic. Often just plain daydreaming, but I'd like to improve the world too.

When it comes to how I approach knowledge, it seems I intuit, and work a bit scatter-brained, but got good memory and can go from A-B to C-D-E-F and branch out G1 G2 G3 G4, etc. I even quickly lost my thesis professor since I did some of the Science in my thesis, wery differently.

What I'm now doing, is having to redo it. I struggled a long time since I dont want to do the kind of ill tempered, career driven garbage posting which is "scientific literature", and I found it difficult to work with. In the US, Anthropology is part Natural Science, part human culture study, same here with Archaeology. I did end up doing the Science part, though imagined myself doing the culture. I will do well, but it is easier to break science than to fix it afterwards. And it took me aa while to figure out the professors publishing the papers I started working with, probably just wrote it before a cup of tea monday morning…
I was hopelessly lost in the woods testing, since I never exped to achieve anything, this special. I realized the social fallout could be quite spectacular in the papers, but also that I risked nobody believed me when I delivered my thesis. I'm not that competition driven as a person, am happy with working with something highly unusual, but find what scare me is not being believed. I also did a lot of double-work to make sure no of the "papers" I used as origins were using fraudulent data, which might be semi paranoid, but one of the first idea crossing my mind when all tests just went *poof* and raw data did not compare.
In the end: I just did an original piece of work. A discovery. :)
 

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. Building a self-image is more related to type 3, so I think 4w3 would be a bigger likelihood for you. (A lot of introvert 4w3s mistype as 4w5.)
I take issue with this one thing. All types IMO build self-images, that's just universal. If by 'building' you mean over-working or relying upon, to support an emotion triad identity specific-thing, that'll be fine by me. In that regard, how does aw-shucks 9 compare to why-me 4? Well, they're both negative, but I'm sure there's some other difference....... perhaps how anger is worn, setbacks accepted. Diminished self-importance vs. self-experienced importance.
 

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I take issue with this one thing. All types IMO build self-images, that's just universal. If by 'building' you mean over-working or relying upon, to support an emotion triad identity specific-thing, that'll be fine by me.
I didn't word that well. I agree with you, building a self-image is human nature, everyone has to do it pretty much. Even if they say they don't want to build a self-image, that's a way of building it.

I meant that relying upon a created self-image to support one's notion of identity is more indicative of type 3 or 3 wings and is a main way in which they deal with shame. (Type 4w5 is less likely to "over-work," to put it into the words you have mentioned, the image.)

In that regard, how does aw-shucks 9 compare to why-me 4? Well, they're both negative, but I'm sure there's some other difference....... perhaps how anger is worn, setbacks accepted. Diminished self-importance vs. self-experienced importance.
This is a really good short description.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Also the classic "I dont deserve nice things, I'm hopeless". Hitting on a problem in life, thinking you do not deserve the life of others, etc.
Looking at unhealthy parts of 9 and 4, I I recognize some of the Enneagraminstitute Type 4 bad traits, but I know I am a solid MBTI INF, most likely INFJ.
I like the "good" parts of the type 9 looking at the lists, but "leadership" ummm… Nope. Enneagram 9w1 just the thingy popping on top on tests online.

I also think my parents could be 9 and 8, my brother likely an 5.
 

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9w1sx are usually very quiet, calm and dreamy people. Of all the 9 subtypes the sx 9s are the most quiet and unassuming, 9w1 especially. 9w1 can usually be described as shy and quiet, reserved yet warm-hearted, gentle and peaceful personalities. They are unassuming in every sense of the word.

4w5 can look similiar on first glance but are very different. What they have in common is the quiet, withdrawn and introverted nature. But 4s are not unassuming, they try to stand out. Even the most quiet and withdrawn 4w5 will do something to be different or unusual. 4s like to be seen as crass and extreme, and they will usually express that tendency in some way; in the 4w5 that might just be having controversial opinions or a weird taste in music or something of that nature.
4s also usually have a very dark streak, that 9s generally speaking don't have.
4s and 4w5s especially can have a very 'I don't give a f***' attitude towards people and have a kind of hard edge, 9s are way more attuned to what other people feel and think and pay attention to group harmony, so they're very agreeable. 4w5s on the other hand are more kind of bristly and disagreeable. 4w5s can have a kind of 'this is me, deal with it' attitude. 9s are not comfortable with standing out in that way and usually go with what other people expect whereas 4s usually delight in being controversial and different, and they usually stand out in some way.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Quiet introvert? Sure.
I can be stubborn and not agree, actually been disagreeing with things people in my family have decided and done, since it don't make sense, while also will say I got infinite patience with people.
I keep going, is stubborn, and if it's important for me just never quit.
..
I also are unusual, sticking out from the crowd. A bit 5 ish, but dont enjoy being an insane parrot spewing insignificant nonsense, so I try blending in, do not think I'm that unusual, in that way. A few of the "5 types" seem unable to grow, others are competitive. I might be an nerd in the corner, at social gatherings though. Figured out I even managed to ignore talking to people I came to enjoy knowing later, etc.
Also, noted the following on 5 in Enneagram institute: " For better or worse, the areas that Fives explore do not depend on social validation; indeed, if others agree with their ideas too readily, Fives tend to fear that their ideas might be too conventional. "
Riiiiiight. Got good friends which ARE like that. I?

I just realized I postponed 1 year of delivering my thesis, to fix it. The real problem?
Its not conventional, not in any form. It's so unconventional I flabbergasted my advisor. I just am afraid of not being believed. I'm introvert and bright, but dont feel I am a 5, not purely. I like research, reading, etc.
I also ignored Enneagram a few years, until now I figured out, even if something is old, and "not modern" its not invalid. I have been dreadfully judgemental of a few topics, studying opened my eyes for other avenues of science, as psychology or anthropology.
 

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Reading and thinking some, I seem to lean on two types, but need to ask for some help: tests online, and some thinking makes these two as possible my types, but I dont understand the system well enough to differentiate them.

9w1sx seems likely due to suppression of anger and the basic role, while 4w5sp, well, I might be quite close to an 5, but feel I really is not a 5. At all.
So, what is the main differences between these two?
Hi there,

I would analyze instinctual variants entirely independently from enneagram types. Don’t try to combine the 2 and see which fits better for you, that’s a recipe for disaster.

Sx vs. Sp is quite drastically different: Sx will throw themselves into the fire and spend every last penny for something or someone that they truly believe in — as they live their day to day life feeling like they’re missing some part of themselves that’s out there somewhere else in the world.

Sp in contrast.... is not like that at all. They’re much more concerned with staying even-keel, stocking up supplies, setting up a cozy & safe home environment, and basically sustaining their happy home life.

9 and 4 are also very different — 4s are much more volatile and emotional. 9s might empathetically feel emotions, but they can’t always crack through the surface — 9s often feel like.... there’s this thick shell around their true emotions and they only experience reflections of it, but not the true raw emotions themselves.

4s in contrast, feel emotions raw as fuck. It’s REAL. So much so that they are COMFORTABLE facing them — they may be one Of the most comfortable types facing their darkness.

9s in contrast, run away from their darkness.

So tell me, which combination suits you?
 

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Hi there,

I would analyze instinctual variants entirely independently from enneagram types. Don’t try to combine the 2 and see which fits better for you, that’s a recipe for disaster.

Sx vs. Sp is quite drastically different: Sx will throw themselves into the fire and spend every last penny for something or someone that they truly believe in — as they live their day to day life feeling like they’re missing some part of themselves that’s out there somewhere else in the world.

Sp in contrast.... is not like that at all. They’re much more concerned with staying even-keel, stocking up supplies, setting up a cozy & safe home environment, and basically sustaining their happy home life.

9 and 4 are also very different — 4s are much more volatile and emotional. 9s might empathetically feel emotions, but they can’t always crack through the surface — 9s often feel like.... there’s this thick shell around their true emotions and they only experience reflections of it, but not the true raw emotions themselves.

4s in contrast, feel emotions raw as fuck. It’s REAL. So much so that they are COMFORTABLE facing them — they may be one Of the most comfortable types facing their darkness.

9s in contrast, run away from their darkness.

So tell me, which combination suits you?
That's not true and very stereotypical. 9s, 2s and 6s are considered the most emotional types (see Katherine Fauvre, Enneagram teacher). 4s are intense. That's a difference.
9s shy away from expressing and numb down, because it's too intense. It's too much. For everyone. They have a storm inside (especially 9s with a 4 fix or counter phobic 6 fix) they can't seem to control and can't seem to get a clear picture of. Their own stuff + the intense energies they pick up from the outside and merge with. 4s intensify. Their emotions are almost scripted, magnified. They are more the master of the game show of emotion. They pick something up and intensify it (usually darkness or whatever makes them different or special). Type 4 is an image type. Where are image types raw? That's the opposite of an image type.
 

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Don't personally attack other members or disciminate, it will not be tolerated and repeatedly doing so can eventually result in being banned from the forum, please see forum rules.
That's not true and very stereotypical. 9s, 2s and 6s are considered the most emotional types (see Katherine Fauvre, Enneagram teacher). 4s are intense. That's a difference.
9s shy away from expressing and numb down, because it's too intense. It's too much. For everyone. They have a storm inside (especially 9s with a 4 fix or counter phobic 6 fix) they can't seem to control and can't seem to get a clear picture of. Their own stuff + the intense energies they pick up from the outside and merge with. 4s intensify. Their emotions are almost scripted, magnified. They are more the master of the game show of emotion. They pick something up and intensify it (usually darkness or whatever makes them different or special). Type 4 is an image type. Where are image types raw? That's the opposite of an image type.
Ay go back to eating dick and cucumber, enjoy yourself
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Sx vs. Sp is quite drastically different: Sx will throw themselves into the fire and spend every last penny for something or someone that they truly believe in — as they live their day to day life feeling like they’re missing some part of themselves that’s out there somewhere else in the world.
That sort of.. fits? No idea why there is so many sexual 4s around, I kind of see INFJ 4sx working. But also get this combination must be really rare.

Googled, found a Google book by Riso and Hudson, i think it was. Got mostly 4, some1 and a little 5. Nothing 9....
Might be there is not a single shred of 9 at all, maybe I just find 9w1 looking like a nice person I'd like to be, sort of.

so. Maybe 4w5 infj, possible with a 5 wing, often going to 1. or as 415 tritype?
 

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Ay go back to eating dick and cucumber, enjoy yourself
You do realize that you hurt and affect people with your words, do you?
It's okay to get angry. Trying to find weak spots and stab a knife into them isn't.

I'm okay with being gay, but I wasn't always. This brings old wounds back to the surface and that's okay. I can deal with it. But not everybody can.

Why do you behave like that? Who hurt you so much?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I think this is the first time, ever, as a former Forum-Mod myself, that forum harassment was, a bit, helpful.
You see, I realized Social 4 is a social stigma similar to the gay stereotype. I'm straight.
I'm most likely 4sosx, might have a 5 wing.
 
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