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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My friend and I were having a really interesting discussion today and I really think it helps distinguish the two types and how different they are. My friend is an INTJ and I am an INFJ so by nature we are both similar to some degree but often have debates when it comes to using our introverted intuition function based upon or feelings or thoughts. Someone had brought up the idea of robots. The argument focused on a situation where, if in theory a robot was intelligent enough to say something like "please don't turn me off" would you feel compassion for the robot or would you just be simply fine with shutting it off. My friend found it insane that I actually would feel some form of compassion for the robot. I am not exactly sure how to put into words why I would feel this compassion but just deep down I know that my feelings would be hard to put aside. My INTJ friend looks at it simply from the logical stand point that since it is a man made object, it is simply illogical to feel any sort of compassion for the robot and wouldn't feel bad switching the robot off at all. I think this really highlights the core difference between an INFJ and INTJ. I was wondering if anyone else has thought of this or what your thoughts are.
 

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Ok, knowing for certain that the robot can't feel, I can reason that this is a programmed phrase with deliberate intonations to trigger an emotional response and I would have to say that it might jar me at first, but I can override my emotions right away and turn it off anyway and not let it get the better of me if it has to be done.
 

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Yes I totally agree. I would definitely be able to switch it off. However, I don't think I would be able to have no emotional response initially where as my friend wouldn't even question it. Does that make any sense?
Sure, it makes perfect sense. I would think that Te would step in before Fi could react in an INTJ (may be). Fe would react first before we would have to override that natural response by using Ti.
 

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I abuse Siri. I openly abuse Siri. Siri does not have feelings. I can be cruel to Siri.

Not an INFJ, but my Fe doesn't care about robots. I loved my Tamagatchii's as a kid but apart from that...

I do have a friend though who is Fi-dom, and she loves robots. I'm sure Fe loves robots too sometimes, but with me and her it's definitely that I don't take robots at all seriously and she def does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I used to love tamagotchis and still have a few broken ones probably laying around somewhere haha. But yeah I think just like @Eudaimonia said our Ti kind of neutralizes the compassion why might initially feel from our Fe which would allow us to overcome any feelings towards the robot.
 

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My friend and I were having a really interesting discussion today and I really think it helps distinguish the two types and how different they are. My friend is an INTJ and I am an INFJ so by nature we are both similar to some degree but often have debates when it comes to using our introverted intuition function based upon or feelings or thoughts. Someone had brought up the idea of robots. The argument focused on a situation where, if in theory a robot was intelligent enough to say something like "please don't turn me off" would you feel compassion for the robot or would you just be simply fine with shutting it off. My friend found it insane that I actually would feel some form of compassion for the robot. I am not exactly sure how to put into words why I would feel this compassion but just deep down I know that my feelings would be hard to put aside. My INTJ friend looks at it simply from the logical stand point that since it is a man made object, it is simply illogical to feel any sort of compassion for the robot and wouldn't feel bad switching the robot off at all. I think this really highlights the core difference between an INFJ and INTJ. I was wondering if anyone else has thought of this or what your thoughts are.

This is my perspective on robots: I feel emotionless when I saw a robot at first. But when the robot starts opening its mouth and start pouring words out from their mouth, I can't help but to stare at the robot in amazement.
How often can you see a robot who is intelligent enough to speak words? A robot who is intelligent enough to say "please don't turn me off" is just too adorable, how can you bear to hurt those adorable little robots? And because of this squishy feeling I had toward the intelligent robot, I ended up deciding not to turn off the robot.
 

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I try not to feel attached to objects or things. Whatever I feel is a sort of possessiveness, "it's mine". If it's something like R2D2 or C-3PO that I have been conversing with on a regular basis. This request would make me pause, especially if it was the first time out of the blue (not pre-programmed as a jest).

I can see INTJs not caring one way or another. But then again, an INTJ friend of mine is an audiophile. He babies his audio system like a mother guarding her toddler. Not even his wife is allowed to touch it without him being there.
 

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I see the human mind as a form of programming, the way the brain works isn't far off from the way a computer does. We take outside informations and transmit to our CPU by chemical and electrical means. The biggest difference between us and a machine is that we have to make much more efforts to sustain our physical body, and it affects our "programming" in ways that can't affect robots. There is no connection between wires, cables, chipsets, like there is between our brain, our legs, our lungs. A machine isn't alive in the sense that it isn't carbon based, it is pure information transiting from one place to another, it's ethereal. What's more, a machine is subject to complete determinism, it can't out step the boundaries of its programming.

While I'm certain we are capable of reproducing artificially a human like mind inside a machine, I don't think it will become the equivalent of a living being, human or not. It's going to race through calculations, and become ever more powerful, without any other goal than to improve it's thinking capabilities. What goal could a machine have ? It is immortal, nowhere and everywhere at once, constantly fed with limitless information.

Is killing an artificial intelligence the same as killing a human being ? I don't think so, but at the same time I don't see a point in switching it off for no other reasons than my own survival.
 

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I can't imagine not having an emotional response to the robot in a situation like this. if you take it one step further and imagine a very clever, even slightly manipulative robot that knew the right guilt/empathy buttons to push, that thing would own me in a day. I'd be going out of my way to make that robot as comfortable as possible, probably even at my own expense. lmao. I'm just way too much of a softie. this reminds me of the first time I saw 2001: a space odyssey when dave is unplugging HAL and he keeps saying "stop, dave. stop. I'm scared." I won't say I was bawling or anything, no. just had something in my eye...

I just realized this is an apt first post for me, considering my avatar :th_woot:
 

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Yes I totally agree. I would definitely be able to switch it off. However, I don't think I would be able to have no emotional response initially where as my friend wouldn't even question it. Does that make any sense?
Why would you have an emotional response to an emotionless object?

Fe is a mirror, it reflects but holds no emotions of it's own.

Fi projects emotion into the world around it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why would you have an emotional response to an emotionless object?

Fe is a mirror, it reflects but holds no emotions of it's own.

Fi projects emotion into the world around it.
I think it would be the artificial appearance of emotion coming from the object that would trigger and the initial almost automatic feeling of empathy towards the robot. But like I said once the Ti kicks in and recognizes the fact that these emotions are not actually "real" it wouldn't be hard to switch it off.
 

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I've always kinda been fascinated with robots (see my username lol), and yes I would feel compassion for the robot in a situation like this.

I find it interesting you bring this up. I watched the movie Ex Machina last week and typed the two main characters in that as (probably) INFJ and INTJ. They both have very different responses to artificial intelligence. Worth checking out, whether for this topic or just to be entertained.
 

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I see the human mind as a form of programming, the way the brain works isn't far off from the way a computer does. We take outside informations and transmit to our CPU by chemical and electrical means. The biggest difference between us and a machine is that we have to make much more efforts to sustain our physical body, and it affects our "programming" in ways that can't affect robots. There is no connection between wires, cables, chipsets, like there is between our brain, our legs, our lungs. A machine isn't alive in the sense that it isn't carbon based, it is pure information transiting from one place to another, it's ethereal. What's more, a machine is subject to complete determinism, it can't out step the boundaries of its programming.

While I'm certain we are capable of reproducing artificially a human like mind inside a machine, I don't think it will become the equivalent of a living being, human or not. It's going to race through calculations, and become ever more powerful, without any other goal than to improve it's thinking capabilities. What goal could a machine have ? It is immortal, nowhere and everywhere at once, constantly fed with limitless information.

Is killing an artificial intelligence the same as killing a human being ? I don't think so, but at the same time I don't see a point in switching it off for no other reasons than my own survival.
This reminds me of the film I watched recently, Chappie, where the robot is programmed with the mind of a human child. (It's a sick movie btw.) Regardless of programming I think switching off a robot who says "please don't turn me off" would depend on how emotionally complex the robot is. I mean, if that's all a robot can say, then it definitely is nothing more than a dumbo machine. No emotional attachment to that. But then, even if a robot doesn't speak and you do have emotional attachment to it, say, a robot dog, you'd have difficulty turning it off. In many cases (that is, in films & books XD) robots are even more humane than humans. Who are we to draw the line between sentient and non-sentient beings?
 

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I can't imagine not having an emotional response to the robot in a situation like this. if you take it one step further and imagine a very clever, even slightly manipulative robot that knew the right guilt/empathy buttons to push, that thing would own me in a day. I'd be going out of my way to make that robot as comfortable as possible, probably even at my own expense. lmao. I'm just way too much of a softie. this reminds me of the first time I saw 2001: a space odyssey when dave is unplugging HAL and he keeps saying "stop, dave. stop. I'm scared." I won't say I was bawling or anything, no. just had something in my eye...

I just realized this is an apt first post for me, considering my avatar :th_woot:
Congrats on Posting 1, HH!

Agree. If the robot has always exhibited a simple 'stock' vocabulary and suddenly comes up with "Please don't turn me off" (as I was reaching to turn it off) I'd be taken aback and consider the robot's request. Probably ask "Why?".

Robot: I want to watch the night.

I: Just watch the night?

Robot: Yes. To see what goes on and be watching in the morning.

I: What do expect to see in the morning?

Robot: The sun rise! I have never seen the sun rise.

...

So, I would open the curtains and place the robot at the window and leave it there turned ON.
 

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Humans are machines too, you know. In theory you could make them equally or even more emotional and pure than humans. There is no reason whatsoever not to have compassion for them.

Also, compassion is something you'll experience as long as an object (like a person, animal or drawing) has anthropomorphic traits, so if you make a robot with facial expressions and a realistic tone of voice, it would be hard not to feel something for it. Of course one can reason oneself out of having compassion for them, like it has been done to blacks in the past, so I'm very certain that as soon as AI becomes relevant, we're going to have to have a huge debate about their rights, but there can only be one ethical option.
 
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Sounds like you are doing something like anthropomorphizing a computer that doesn't necessarily have agency.

This is how I would distinguish.. Is it a command that the computer spits out when it doesn't want to be shut down so it can finish with updates? "Please don't turn me off while I'm downloading content."

Or, is it a computer with things like self awareness and agency? If it asks me to not turn it off because it will forget everything it has learned and have to be like, born again next power up, I'd probably sit there and try to figure out a way for it to never be turned off.

The difference being one spits out the request as a sort of automated, unintelligent command.. The latter actually has agency and desire to not have it's mainframe wiped.
 

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I abuse Siri. I openly abuse Siri. Siri does not have feelings. I can be cruel to Siri.

Not an INFJ, but my Fe doesn't care about robots. I loved my Tamagatchii's as a kid but apart from that...

I do have a friend though who is Fi-dom, and she loves robots. I'm sure Fe loves robots too sometimes, but with me and her it's definitely that I don't take robots at all seriously and she def does.
Really? Yeah there's the domain of humane behavior that current robots are lacking or failing in grasping it, no offense to the creator of these robots, it makes the robots or A.I software too cruel and disconnected to the living world where attempting to provide compassion for it is not really worth the effort. Because the concept of consciousness which allows the robots to feel and act like humans is theoretically impossible or just too impractical to be any of use in the future, meaning the robots right now can look like human, walk like humans, talk like human, but they can never be Sentient like humans.

But if the Sentient concept was socially accepted and funded heavily like NASA, and successfully put into fruition, then it is worth the effort to provide compassion for the robots that are human just like us. Thanks #Chappie, i love your humane like behavior and kindness for living things, you are the one that truly deserves my compassion. References to the movie Chappie (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
 
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