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@INTJ_Artist @ENTJudgement @FreeKekistan
I took it upon myself to do a little test and ask my (very attractive) ESFP gf what she thinks are the most atttractive aspects in a man she could think of.
She mentioned the following:
Responsible, would make a good father, takes initiative, doesn't wait for permission from authorities, loyal, has integrity and sticks to their word.
Also to quote "It doesn't matter about anything else if they start repeating what they're being told. Ew."

Not all women judge by the same qualities, and if you're prepping yourself to be judged based on attractiveness, you'll find yourself going after women who value that more than things that are actually important(like some of the ones mentioned above). If you find yourself in a relationship with a woman who values only your looks and status at some point, don't get upset when they substitute you for someone with better looks and more status, because you didn't consider responsibility as a main factor yourselves.
I really do think it has to do with values, life goals, and preferences. And every individual is unique.

Then there's the level of honesty and openness--because people can be honest about their values and goals or dishonest (I think women have to worry about this more with PUA culture, which basically teaches men to act like con-men, but there are plenty of women who don't value bluntness and honesty as well, so it's not like it's always easy to figure out).

It sounds like the woman you were talking to had very specific interests and I would bet she's passionate about freedom of expression.

But I also think that some values for the physical world are just practical. I think SFJs especially, get a bad rap sometimes because if they value things like starting a family or living in an American-dream/white-picket fence scenario, it's going to entail a certain amount of wealth. And I think people demonize their pragmatism, just because it goes against notions of romanticism (tbh I get kind of bitter about it at times). But it's just practicality and realism sometimes--and it makes sense for someone who also values that to be accepting that physical things must be in place for some lifestyles.

So I really think people need to avoid demonizing certain values over others (though I do it for sure), because it seems more about compatibility than one being better than another.

I haven't met many people (especially women) who primarily value a man for his looks or status. But I assume that might happen more in industries where that's more important--maybe high profile acting and performance industries where image is such an important part of the career.
 

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There may have been a time, perhaps in the Victorian era, where most men were so callus that simply being nice (in the gentlemanly sense) was all you needed. But I kind of doubt it.
Some people would give advice like "Just be normal, be yourself". But I don't think that's a good advice. Instead "work on yourself, improve your personality or your looks".

Because people who have success in dating by being themselves, already have great looks and a great personality going for them. So for them "Just be yourself" is kind of pointless advice, and since they are themselves and it works, they never ask for such advice in the first place.

On the other hand, people who can't find a dating partner by just being themselves, for them, that's an equally useless advice. It's like "be yourself, you think I haven't tried that?" it's the first thing people naturally do, it's only when they fail with being themselves that they actually start looking for dating advice.

This.

And the thing is, it works with just about everyone. Mentally healthy men tease each other incessantly (go to any barber shop to see this) but that wasn’t something that, as an only child, I understood until much later in life. Healthy kids enjoy being playfully teased, and grandmothers too. My sons tease each other and their friends. It‘s what makes them friends.

Problem is, we don’t live in a healthy culture. Kids grow up alone, and in many cases can’t communicate through anything but a screen without getting hyper-emotional. As a college teacher, I’ve seen this. Social media fills them with unfounded fears that they can’t evaluate rationally yet. Then the fear center of the brain gets trained and it takes a long, long time to mentally dig yourself out of that hole.
I agree, a tease can really light up the mood and the atmosphere and make 2 people feel closer and more familiar with each other.

That they can afford more things with each other and it's okay to "break some walls" between them that they couldn't with other people. Teasing is a method to get from more formal into more informal and closer to each other, to afford to say or do more things to each other with confidence in the other person that they won't get upset or feel bothered.

Like, if you have a person you barely know, a stranger. Or someone of authority, your boss or your teacher. You simply cannot tease them, because they are not the people you are supposed to be teasing with. You don't know them, they don't know you that well, you may be bothering them. As such, teasing in both dating and friendship is a method to get from more cold and formal to each other towards closer and more informal.

But I think it has to be made gradually, so that the other person doesn't have a shock "wow, where is this coming from?" or "how rude!". Tease about light stuff, see if they are cool with it, if they are cool with it continue.

Hurtful teases are called insults. There’s a world of difference between “I can see that your hair roots are obviously a different color than your hair.” and “Wow! I love your hair! But how on earth did you manage to dye just the roots and not the ends?”

Once, in college, a friend of mine and I went over to the house of a girl I liked. She said that she was going to go change before we all went out. My friend then said “Cool, I’ll wait outside. Hey! Which window is yours again?”

I (the simp) was horrified, but she laughed and shot him a radiant smile. I know that she liked me. The signs were all there. But I was never anything but “nice” to her. So I never made her laugh.
Yeah, teasing is really humor. And like any type of humor, the more absurd the better. The more inappropiate, the better.

Because teasing & humor in general are all about violating social norms. Things that are supposed to be done, or things we are supposed to know are cool.

You, when that guy said "Cool, I’ll wait outside. Hey! Which window is yours again?" took it literally. It was the girl and that guy who got the humor, that he didn't mean it, he was just being ironic.

It was clearly the opposite of what the situation dictates, you were like "of course men are not supposed to spy on women through their windows" and both the guy and the girl knew that, and you were right, it was exactly because they knew that that this type of humor was funny.

There's nothing arrogant or malitious about humor, it's just fun, it's just a pretending of the violation of the social norms. That's what I think it comes down to and what makes it funny.

Like when someone randomly starts to sing, it's a violation of the social norm because you're not supposed to randomly start singing.
Oh no, it’s general to all women. Feminists especially. One moment you’re teasing them, then she starts showing you all the hilariously inappropriate pics she gets sent by creeps, and pretty soon you’re making out.

Friends, REAL friends have boundaries. They have other interests. They do other things. What they don’t do is hang out for 10+ hours a day like a real couple would, and have a one-way emotional bond where she (or he) dumps all of their relationship frustration on you.

Once you’ve been simped, there is almost no way to get out of it. You could start hanging out with her less, setting some boundaries, and be seen with other women. That might get her attention and give you a small chance (if her actual boyfriend isn’t around) of getting somewhere romantically. Even if only for one night.

But chances are, she’s not worth it. Because then you’ll get the full weight of all her insecurities and her fear of being alone. Healthy women don’t allow simps near them, and healthy guys don’t want to be simps. The woman who simped me… Well let’s just say I looked her up years later and was VERY glad that I dodged that bullet. VERY VERY glad!

Mutual friends can absolutely develop a romance. Emphasis on MUTUAL. It happens all the time.

But in the friendzone, she has already established dominance over you. So the relationship will never be equal. If you make the first move, you will be rejected. Your only hope is for her to make the first move, and that’s a very unusual thing for a woman to do.
Exactly, because humor breeds comfort. And when they are comfortable with you, they feel more okay to show you pics with what some inappropriate creep sent them a while ago.

When they know that they can break social norms with you, they are going to feel more comfortable with you, because they feel that they are not going to be judged with you.

But since we're on this. I have to ask. How important do you think is character in dating? like showing good character, having high character, compared to other stuff like being fun, being masculine, being dominant, etc?

To me, character means to not want to bother other people. To have shame. I know that shame has a generally negative connotation, it's literally defined as "a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour" or "used to express sentimental pleasure, especially at something small and endearing", but it can also have a positive connotation, shame is what may make us to mind our behavior.

And what other aspects of a man would you find important in dating?
 

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So I really think people need to avoid demonizing certain values over others (though I do it for sure), because it seems more about compatibility than one being better than another.
You're right, what I deem as important won't be as important to someone else. The problem comes when people value things that are irrelevant to their situation, the celebrity example is a perfect one in this case - people follow their stars and often live in the delusion that having the same set of standards as them will put them at a better position in life, while actually these standards completely don't fit their circumstance.
 

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You're right, what I deem as important won't be as important to someone else. The problem comes when people value things that are irrelevant to their situation, the celebrity example is a perfect one in this case - people follow their stars and often live in the delusion that having the same set of standards as them will put them at a better position in life, while actually these standards completely don't fit their circumstance.
Yeah it gets harder when your values seem to diverge from the rest of society's.

I think sometimes people don't look deeply enough at what they really want. And they associate one thing with another.

Like celebs in films often play good people--they often play people who have some ethical direction. But that's just a character. The actor himself could be a total douchebag.

You know--even simple things like sexual assault--a lot of women are concerned about it, and a lot of traditional stereotypes suggest that it's only "ugly" or very atypical looking people who would do it, or only quiet awkward people, but realistically it's not about that.

But they might unconsciously associate good looks with good character or safety, which is not true. Or they might associate wealth with having a responsible character, again might not work. So I agree with you that is a big problem with superficial qualities--that we tend to read into them and assign them meaning that's important to us, but that doesn't reflect reality.

But I also think that when someone has a condition, they could substitute you out for it if it's not being met, which is another reason you should match with life goals/values.

Some people also approach relationships more pragmatically and others more romantically and others just for sex or fun times.

I think the biggest problems arise when people who have very different approaches end up together--a romantic and a sex/fun time person are going to end up hating each other, along with the pragmatic one who wants kids and a family.

Idk--I spend more time speculating and thinking about relationships than being in them, it seems though. lol
 

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@WickerDeer You have a very detailed and elaborate way of conveying your thoughts, wish I had more of that. It's true that different approaches don't work because two sides always end up trying to pull and manipulate the other in their direction. I have only one relationship to speak about(and most likely the only one I'll have) which I find ideal as we both skipped the whole dating scene and got together due to having the same relationship goals and very complimenting hopes, dreams and values. I'm sure finding eachother physically and psychologically attractive helps a tremendous amount, but the mindset of what you want out of a relationship is indeed very important.
 

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It always depresses me to read about sex and romance and that sort of thing. I always feel like people are describing [the kind of man that women supposedly want] as being basically the complete opposite of me. It feels like people are saying, "you have to pretend to be the complete opposite of who you really are (in order to attract women), because who you are is completely repulsive to women." Like, "have confidence!" Not sure what you mean by "confidence," but I assume it has something to do with self-esteem. So you're telling me I have to have self-esteem, otherwise I'm completely unlovable and undesirable. Which of course makes my self-esteem even lower. So now I have low self-esteem about my low self-esteem.
 

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Not sure what you mean by "confidence,"

Confidence is asking her out for the first time, it is your hand taking hers for the first time while you're walking around instead of endlessly hesitating, is that first kiss you move into without asking if it is OK after a successful date, it is about pulling her hair in bed and doing it rough without constantly stopping at every thrust to ask if that one hurt.

Yes, all of these are potential for creating embarrassing situations, but you gotta take the leap. You could just sit there and hoping that all these things would fall into place without ever taking any action, but how successful will that be?

DISCLAIMER: Don't do this to strangers, I think it is understood this is concerning people that are interested in each other or are in a relationship. Don't come blaming me for pulling the hair of strangers on the street. That is called being an idiot, a creep, but not confident.

Have you tried asking your dad what is confidence? Or your mom what women want? Parents can give somewhat useful advice from their experience.

Do you have a friend that is in a successful relationship? Friends can help also. You get a lot of bullshit advice, but some of it might teach what to do or what to avoid.
 
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Confidence is asking her out for the first time, it is your hand taking hers for the first time while you're walking around instead of endlessly hesitating, is that first kiss you move into without asking if it is OK after a successful date, it is about pulling her hair in bed and doing it rough without constantly stopping at every thrust to ask if that one hurt.

Yes, all of these are potential for creating embarrassing situations, but you gotta take the leap. You could just sit there and hoping that all these things would fall into place without ever taking any action, but how successful will that be?

DISCLAIMER: Don't do this to strangers, I think it is understood this is concerning people that are interested in each other or are in a relationship. Don't come blaming me for pulling the hair of strangers on the street. That is called being an idiot, a creep, but not confident.

Have you tried asking your dad what is confidence? Or your mom what women want? Parents can give somewhat useful advice from their experience.

Do you have a friend that is in a successful relationship? Friends can help also. You get a lot of bullshit advice, but some of it might teach what to do or what to avoid.
I don't like the way that people use the word 'confidence', the way it's thrown around, etc. The word 'confidence' means trust, secrecy, etc. So 'self-confidence' should mean trusting in yourself, believing in yourself, etc. But people use it to refer to a very specific kind of self-trust - the social one. Giving a firm, hard handshake, making constant eye contact, etc. All that shallow BS. It's very shallow. And it's a very shallow way to judge someone's "self-security." But yeah, maybe sex/romance is shallow. I'm certainly not immune to shallowness myself.

We all have areas we're secure in, and areas we're insecure in. I think people make it too simplistic and black-and-white with this whole 'confidence' thing. I like the way of looking at it in the video though. It's much more healthy. But yeah, anything involving the word "confidence" triggers me. I really hate the word. But I digress.

"Yes, all of these are potential for creating embarrassing situations, but you gotta take the leap. You could just sit there and hoping that all these things would fall into place without ever taking any action, but how successful will that be?"

I understand that, but I don't see why these initiations have to fall on men. Why should it be a man's responsibility any more than it's a woman's responsibility?

"DISCLAIMER: Don't do this to strangers, I think it is understood this is concerning people that are interested in each other or are in a relationship. Don't come blaming me for pulling the hair of strangers on the street. That is called being an idiot, a creep, but not confident."

Who's to say that that inappropriate behavior is not the result of "confidence"? It seems like you're just twisting the definition of that word so that anything you like is "confidence," and anything you don't [is not].

"Have you tried asking your dad what is confidence? Or your mom what women want? Parents can give somewhat useful advice from their experience."
It's not advice I'm looking for. I've heard the advice over and over again. The same old thing. I'm starting to see a trend. Every time I read about dating advice it just makes me feel so depressed and low self-esteem, frankly. It feels like they're just describing me to a t [as the man not to be]. And that I need to become (or pretend to be) the complete opposite of me.

What women supposedly want [is not necessarily the same as] what to do. For example, if I'm turned on by being dominated in the bedroom, I shouldn't seek sexually submissive women. Most women may want a dominant man, but it makes no sense to mold myself like that, to pretend I'm someone I'm not.. just so they'll like me, be attracted to me, etc. It's not even me they'd be attracted to. They'd be attracted to someone I'm pretending to be.
 

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But since we're on this. I have to ask. How important do you think is character in dating? like showing good character, having high character, compared to other stuff like being fun, being masculine, being dominant, etc?
When I finally cracked the code, and started dating in earnest, I had a goal: Find a wife to start a family with. Period. So with that in mind…

1. Be a leader. Because a good woman will expect you to be the leader of the family. That doesn’t mean that you ignore her views, or those of the kids, but you will need to balance them against the needs of the family as a whole.

Now saying that will rankle some folks who’ve swallowed the myth that men and women are 100% equal in all things. But try hanging out with women. If you’re their simp, they will never ask your opinion, because they are dominant. But if they’re your mate, you are dominant, and they will ask you to decide on all sorts of crazy things. Where to eat, what to wear, what color to paint this or that, etc. Because the natural role of a man is to lead, and for a woman it is to nurture.

I have an INTP friend who doesn’t get this. All he hears is his wife asking about stuff he doesn’t care about, and then starting arguments with him that he doesn’t understand. Why? Because he’s refusing to lead, and therefore she doesn’t respect him. Which is a problem that also plagues him at work, where he doesn’t understand why he gets passed over for promotions.

2. The purpose of dating is to find a mate and start a family. If it’s anything else, re-examine your priorities. Because otherwise you’re betraying all of your ancestors who made huge sacrifices, and survived untold calamities to ensure that you exist. So you owe it to them and your future decedents to continue that legacy.

3. Don’t play around with her.

Once you find that a woman you’re dating has a serious flaw (insecurity, lack of class, dishonesty, hard-no medical/mental problems, etc.) let her go. Because you’re not going to fix her (any more than she can “fix” you) and to continue the relationship will cause her to bond with you in a situation that you know can’t last.

Why is that a problem? Because women are programmed to bond with a man, with an intensity that most men can’t possibly understand, and if bonded they will be completely faithful to you so long as you provide leadership, emotional support, and protection (physical, financial) for her and the kids.

But… And this is absolutely the truth… Women can only go through 2-3 broken bondings before they start becoming emotionally damaged. This is because each of those intensely deep bonds that are ripped away leave emotional scars, and after 8-12 failed bondings they will have so many scars that they completely lose the capability to properly bond with a man.

So don’t play around with her. Don’t let her bond if you’re not serious. Because if you do, you will be adding scar tissue and making it more likely that she will not be able to find a healthy relationship after you.

Men can also be scarred by failed relationships, but it makes us slower to trust, not unable to bond. Plus we don’t bond as intensely as women to start with.
 

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"Yes, all of these are potential for creating embarrassing situations, but you gotta take the leap. You could just sit there and hoping that all these things would fall into place without ever taking any action, but how successful will that be?"

I understand that, but I don't see why these initiations have to fall on men. Why should it be a man's responsibility any more than it's a woman's responsibility?
Because men and women are different. As a man you are expected to lead, and accomplish something in life before you become attractive. Why? Because there is no shortage of nice men who sit around and do nothing much at all.

Women, especially when young, simply have to exist and be somewhat attractive. Why do you think school sports exist, except to provide young men with the ability to demonstrate leadership and/or status at an early age? Most of us don’t become that attractive until we’re 30 and established in a field.

Are you an artist who wants to immediately become attractive? Start directing a short film with your school-mates. Once you start showing leadership you’ll have your pick of all the artsy women.

"Have you tried asking your dad what is confidence? Or your mom what women want? Parents can give somewhat useful advice from their experience."
It's not advice I'm looking for. I've heard the advice over and over again. The same old thing. I'm starting to see a trend. Every time I read about dating advice it just makes me feel so depressed and low self-esteem, frankly. It feels like they're just describing me to a t [as the man not to be]. And that I need to become (or pretend to be) the complete opposite of me.
No, you just need to become the best version of yourself. Don’t replace who you are. Augment. Upgrade to leader-you and accomplished-you.

A friend of mine, a scientist, once walked the world. Literally walked the length of every continent over 3 years. Do you for a second think that he did it just for the fresh air? Hell no. Amongst other things he met gobs of women and had all sorts of interesting stories to tell when talking to them.

And all he did was walk.
 

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I understand that, but I don't see why these initiations have to fall on men. Why should it be a man's responsibility any more than it's a woman's responsibility?
I'm not going to bore you with long talks about the differences between men and women, the details of testosterone vs estrogen, and their effect on human behavior and thinking. So I'm gonna lay it in the most vulgar and down to earth manner I can find.

"Because that's what the p***y wants".

I don't understand why you're upset exactly. You don't want to be like that. OK, then don't be, it's not mandatory for survival. It's mandatory for sex and mating, but if you're not into that, then I see no reason to be like that.

As for the handshake stuff, I disagree. Whenever I shake hands with someone and I see them hold this, half twisted, downward pointing hand, like a stump, I feel like the other person is only doing this out of some sort of obligation. Look, either do it or don't, but if you're gonna do it, do it properly. Manly. Firm handshake, like, you mean it. Or just tilt your head, tip your hat, or whatever. Just do it properly. I excuse women from this equation. I have no expectation for them to do a firm handshake. Nay, in fact, I would like them to not have a firm handshake, but a soft one.

Looks like you just hate that things are the way they are and you'd want the world to change to accommodate you. But the path of least resistance is that you accommodate to the ways of the world. Or don't. Again, nobody is making you do this. You can isolate from society. But if you are going to participate in it, I think it only makes sense to adopt its customs and traditions.
 
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A friend of mine, a scientist, once walked the world. Literally walked the length of every continent over 3 years. Do you for a second think that he did it just for the fresh air? Hell no. He met gobs of women and had all sorts of interesting stories to tell when talking to them.
I‘m sorry but he walked to just meet woman—connotation that you put the anecdotal story in is just a piece of the story. He walked for other reasons and happened to meet woman along the way. I’m betting he met men as well.

Come on use a better line.
 

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Hmmm, then I was all wrong.
I thought I judge people by their physical attractiveness based on how good they feel about their image, how much they care about their body, and how well they manage to manifest willpower in that direction: "preserving and improving physical dimension".

I think you're overestimating me too.
I judge people physical attractiveness based on their ability to provoke me one or more erections, on a hourly basis.



That's what she usually say too.



I don't know about cultures, I know only that I'm a simple man.
I see long hair -> I have something to hold when she is on all fours and I'm behind. Or when she is on her knees and I'm standing.
Short hair has its magic too because it gets in your way less often especially if you like to paint her face.




Then I'm screwed.
I'm ambidextrous.
Right for speed, left for accuracy.

What is left after cutting men and women off the list?



Wait! There is still hope!
Don't rush, impulsenine.
There is hope that the scar you acquired when you were about to die at the age of 4 will attract who knows what hottie with ... everything bigger and better.



I have no teeth problems, but I love garlic. I would eat tons every day!
So ... sorry honey. That's why you're actually honey, you sweeten me and you're an antidote to garlic, right?

Stop kissing me otherwise!
But blowjob should work well. :devilish:


Basically that's how I judge their entire character and how I map their whole personality. In less than 3 seconds...



Healthy healthy, but have you seen how many problems you encounter when the difference is big? You can hardly hit those holes...especially in the dark.
You have to use extra muscles that you did not even know you have, for a basic position.

Love and the manifestation of passion turn into a workout without wanting to.
I knew this was the champions' breakfast, but now it's the workout too?



Well, it's like everything bigger is better, now what do we do?
The most attractive woman I met most recently was an overweight woman. And I'm never attracted to overweight women.
She had thick thighs, big hips, belly, big ass and big breasts and an absolutely gorgeous face. She did sports, she was muscular, but at the same time it was obvious that ... that's her body shape and that she can't do much.
But she ran with such great involvement and passion and will that ... I was instantly impressed.



Only when talking? Like screaming in her ear? I knew that's the recipe.



I agree with that!
HEY YO HISPANIC phat ass mooma, how's the kitten doin'? Kiss you down. let's do the horizontal hokey pokey straight away, mrs.



If my personality sucks, I'm doomed to suck too forever.
Damn, life it's so cruel! It's just like ... you are planted here on a limited area and you are subjected as an instant slave to all authorities starting with the laws of physics.
You don't decide what personality you have, it's about nature and nurture and ... that's it. You just have to be yourself. Nothing can be improved, nothing can be changed.



Like: "Police officer here. Do you need some help? You seem stuck in that washing machine, I'm specialised in unstucking people from washing machines. I have my duty and my missions but I can afford to help such a pretty young lady like you".



"What are you doing there?"
"Me? What? I guess you're not paying enough attention to the sky. There is no reason to check if a hand is on your knee or not and if it tries to get under your skirt. THERE IS NO FUCKING POINT TO DO THAT! YOU JUST HAVE TO ENJOY THE FUCKING NATURE, why are you OVERTHINKING SIMPLE GESTURES?"




I prefer to keep her (safe)word in my long-term memory, to be honest. I guess it's more productive.



Yes. Like "bukakke parties"? Lots of proteins over her face. It helps her with her skin and she'll look healthier so I'll fall in love with her harder cuz she's more attractive.



I'm born to talk. No trust available on the market for me, unfortunately. :(



Ohhhh, like making sure that I'm a good friend? :unsure:



No. Trust and intimacy exist and they just know each other. period.



What if she says that "I like bad boys. I was married with a pimp who've beat me regularly"?



Some are train wrecks. They have no idea 5% about how they feel, but let someone else try to find out how they feel.
Have you not yet understood the lesson of the great philosophers of feminine wisdom?
"Women are creatures designed to be loved, not understood."
Like, what the hell? What world do you live in?



Sometimes that's exactly what is the most appropriate thing to do. Push too hard.
You never experienced: "not too hard" and ignored it and 30 seconds later "harder, OMG I LOVE IT!"?
Like...what the hell?



Lol what a weirdo. You could have just stalk her ass if you were interested in that, like normal people. Not asking.



Thanks! That's what I have to do!

Oh wait, it's so much more. No, it's too much.
Listen, no one said to you: "but when are you going to fuck me, or are you just able to talk"? If not, what kind of weird creatures did you deal with?



But for what reason? :unsure:
That was hilarious and accurate as fuck. But you need help lmfao.
 

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What women supposedly want [is not necessarily the same as] what to do. For example, if I'm turned on by being dominated in the bedroom, I shouldn't seek sexually submissive women. Most women may want a dominant man, but it makes no sense to mold myself like that, to pretend I'm someone I'm not.. just so they'll like me, be attracted to me, etc. It's not even me they'd be attracted to. They'd be attracted to someone I'm pretending to be.
Most women DO like to be dominated. As usual, I bring the paperwork, no need to thank me.
Reject Modernity, Embrace Tradition.
 
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I‘m sorry but he walked to just meet woman—connotation that you put the anecdotal story in is just a piece of the story. He walked for other reasons and happened to meet woman along the way. I’m betting he met men as well.

Come on use a better line.
No, he didn't walk just to meet women, and perhaps I should have phrased it better since that was only one aspect of what he experienced. But there is a context to this discussion, and I would not have communicated this story the same way in a conversation about travel in general.
 

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Most women DO like to be dominated. As usual, I bring the paperwork, no need to thank me.
Reject Modernity, Embrace Tradition.
LOL! The most hard-line feminists I've known absolutely want to be dominated in bed. It feeds a primal need they have that is not satisfied within their otherwise female-dominant relationship positions. It also goes far beyond anything that I would personally consider healthy, and into the realm of abuse by consent. Which in any other context would be considered assault.
 
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