[DJArendee]

I've been having this debate with myself.

I want to be viewed as a humble man. How do I do this? I ask for feedback from others, I ask what I'm doing wrong, and I try to be modest about my accomplishments. But people keep telling me I "lack confidence." What the hell? So, because I'm trying to act humble, I look like I lack confidence.

So I start acting confident, then people tell me I'm arrogant.

So, I'm starting to believe confidence and arrogance are the same exact thing, but different opinions:
-Arrogance is when someone is jealous of your abilities
-Confidence is when someone admires your abilities

Currently I'm going along with the belief that I just keep my mouth shut, know what I can do, keep the smirk on my face that says "I'm better than you in this area" but don't outwardly brag about myself. Yet the smirk still pisses people off, (though I'm starting to think its just people who are jealous or threatened by my abilities that wish to bring me down to their level of suck). What are your thoughts?

Am I making myself clear? Does anyone see the dilemma I'm having here? How do I be confident and humble at the same time without appearing arrogant?

 

[zynthaxx]

Take a person you know who has really mastered a subject - whether he's an accomplished consultant, a great guitarist or whatever. The sympathetic version of this person, is a humble but confident person who isn't afraid of sharing his knowledge when he notices a spark of interest: He knows that his position as a guru isn't in any way threatened by the fact that there are other people around who are, or might become, as good as he is; he'll still be among the best in this area. Also, he knows how much work, time, passion is needed to reach that level of proficiency, and he knows better than to disrespect a person who has the kind of rare drive to actually try to get there. Au contraire, he'll probably do his best to support anybody who shows interest in learning his skill.

My take on the definitions:
Arrogance is when you belittle other people.
Confidence is when you don't see the reason to.
Humility is when you realize and accept the thought that your skill level can be reached and surpassed by others, and respect what's respectable in others.

I enjoyed reading Yamamoto Tsuentomo's book Hagakure (it's in the public domain and available for free on the web) and (in this context) especially his thoughts on selflessness. They convey a pretty good picture of real humility - a balance between not taking yourself too seriously, and not allowing others to wipe their feet on you.

But then of course: Some people will never be content. You'll always be faced with jealousy and people who think others can be bullied into the shape they want for them.

 

[ZC Carbon]

Confidence, like zynthaxx said, is based on experience. It will assume a specific outcome or prediction will be true. Self-confidence is the state of being that you know you are fully capable. An excessive amount of pride in your confidence or self-confidence, combined with a superiority complex, irregardless of your passion for [insert area of confidence/self-confidence here], would be arrogance. Combined with willingness to dismiss whatever reason, close mindedness and happiness would be smug with arrogance [read: INTJ stereotype]

Humbleness is a form of restraint. Humility, probably goes beyond mere restraint and leaving oneself at the mercy of whatever, irregardless of your.... ego.

/INTP ZC

[Edit] As for someone else's interpretation of if you are humble or not. Fuck 'em, seriously, fuck 'em. You can please some people, sometimes, but you can't please everyone all of the time.

[Edit 2] Based on what I'm reading in google, there are actually numerous interpretations on the matter. Why can't we have some of the most important things in life as a unified belief. It would make less of a headache.

 

[Beyond]

I've seen this a lot myself. For the most part, what I see in our culture is that great value is placed on high self-confidence, often(and unfortunately) much more so then humility. In my experience humility is often looked down on as a lack of confidence. It seems to me that many people reason from that(or maybe feel in some peoples cases) that over-confidence or arrogance is the normal way to act in our culture, or even the necessary way for someone that wants to get ahead in life. I've learned that with a lot of bosses or superiors you can't behave humbly even if your normally a humble person when they're not around, they'll either see you as weak or try to take advantage of you if they can. But of course no one is gonna like someone who they see as arrogant either, and I also think our stoic expressions tend to make us look arrogant to others even if we don't want to be. So, it can be a difficult balancing act sometimes.

In my opinion I would define the three thus:
Arrogance - Thinking your superior to other people.
Confidence - Realizing that other people are only human, so anything that they can achieve you can too.
Humility - Realizing your only human, so whatever your greatest gift is you know there are other people with other gifts that are just as great as yours.

 

[sofort99]

I want to be viewed as a humble man.

There's the rub, isn't it?

Notice, you didn't say you want to be a humble man. You want to be viewed as a humble man.

Which is it? Are you trying to be humble, or are you just trying to figure out how to project the facade of being a humble man? Faking it's easier short term, but all but impossible to pull off long term.

Maybe you should just learn sincerity? Once you can fake that, you can fake anything. :wink:

 

[Miss Scarlet]

Confidence is being sure of your self. Arrogance is boastful of knowledge and skills and rubbing it in some ones face. Humility is being kind enough to not boast even when you feel like it. At least that's how I see it.

 

[ZC Carbon]

It sounds like then -

Arrogance - To boast about knowledge.
Confidence - To speak with knowledge
Humility - To postrate on knowledge

?

 

[DJArendee]

There's the rub, isn't it?

Notice, you didn't say you want to be a humble man. You want to be viewed as a humble man.

Which is it? Are you trying to be humble, or are you just trying to figure out how to project the facade of being a humble man? Faking it's easier short term, but all but impossible to pull off long term.

Maybe you should just learn sincerity? Once you can fake that, you can fake anything. :wink:

Well you see, I don't even know if I'm egotistical or not. The reason is, I go about my life with a smug look on my face, I do what I do, I tell people what I can and cannot do, yet I still have people tell me I'm arrogant. See, I don't even know what humble means anymore. When I became a black belt, all the lower belts would constantly feed me compliments on my abilities. After a while it just got annoying. So, I have no idea if I'm confident or arrogant based on what others have told me. So what reason do I have to know if I'm humble or not?

Good responses, I like the idea that arrogance belittles others and confidence is just self assuredness without having to assure other people, while humility is knowing that other people maybe be better than yourself.

 

[zynthaxx]

See, I don't even know what humble means anymore. When I became a black belt, all the lower belts would constantly feed me compliments on my abilities.

Humbleness in this situation is to tell them that you have yet another 9 Dan to be given. :wink:

 

[Zomboy]

I'm right there with you, sir

I have recently become aware that I am full of win (much as you seem to be)

Though in boasting my newfound awesomeness to my friends, I'm now seen as an egotistical dick

I know that I mean nothing by it. In fact, most times I'll do it for a laugh

Remaining quiet with that "holier than thou" smirk is my compromise of choice as well. Even if the people around you don't actually think you're an arrogant jerk, they're at least going to wonder what you're up to

 

[U-80]

I dunno about any of this confidence stuff. I just think some people are happy with the way they are, while others are cursed with self-loathing and everything that goes along with it. I feel bad for all the people out there who hate themselves, but I guess it's part of their identity or something. As ISTPs we seem to be, in general, quite pleased with ourselves (regardless of how great we may or may not appear in the eyes of others). Maybe we're just lucky that way?

 

[alionsroar]

Maybe arrogance is believing that you are great because you have $10million, 10 lovers, 10 houses, 10 boats, 10 degrees, 10 great works of arts you have done etc. Humility is realising that they don't make you great. Confidence is realising that you don't need them to be great.

Maybe it seems less arrogant if you sing everyone else's praises but not your own. Like how all the celebrities always thank the audience and say they couldn't have done it without them.

Maybe it's about gratitude that you had the teachers or resources or whatever to do what you do and so it's not just all your own work. Like if you had been born in a third world country and had to work your days in a factory, you couldn't have done it. Or if you had not remained in good health, you might not be where you are now. So it's like not all attributed to you.

"What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?"

 

[ZC Carbon]

Why is it there are so many interpretations on these specific words?

 

[ThoughtProcess]

^^^It's everyone's own perspective.

This has been a very interesting topic.

 

[teddy564339]

Currently I'm going along with the belief that I just keep my mouth shut, know what I can do, keep the smirk on my face that says "I'm better than you in this area" but don't outwardly brag about myself. Yet the smirk still pisses people off, (though I'm starting to think its just people who are jealous or threatened by my abilities that wish to bring me down to their level of suck). What are your thoughts?

I think a lot of it depends on who the people are and what the situation is. For some people, I don't think there's anything wrong with putting them in their place.


But I think there are a lot of times too, especially with sensitive people like me, that showing or saying you're better at something in itself doesn't do any good. All it does is make someone who isn't as good feel lesser, which can just be hurtful. I think that's where most jealousy comes from.

For me, when someone's really good at something, the arrogance and confidence lies in their intent. If someone's confident, they don't care about if they're better than someone else or not...they just know their own abilities and how to use them. It's like they don't need to prove anything.


The other thing that's really big to me is willingness to help someone else, and being nice about it. For example, I have one friend who was showing me how to play a new sport with him. Obviously, he was much better than me at it, since I had never done it before. But the whole time he was very patient and kind in showing me how to do it. He was clearly confident about his ability in it, but since he focused so much on helping me improve, he never made me feel bad. That made me admire his ability, not resent it.

So I think part of it is how you express your abilities. If your goal is just to say that you're better than someone else, even if it's true, I take it as arrogance. But if you can use your abilities to do good, either to
serve some large purpose or to help someone else improve themselves in that area, then I don't see the arrogance in it, usually.

 

[Psilocin]

Arrogance is confidence that skews a self-perception to believe one can do more than they can.
Confidence is just faith in yourself.
Humility is having the willingness to place others as equals, in respect to one's self-perception.

I s'pose that's what they is for me.

 

[hatercakes]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the difference between confidence and arrogance is the perspective from which the characterization comes.

Society values confidence as a positive trait, and arrogance as a negative one. Unfortunately, they both stem from the same location - an expertise, self-satisfaction, general self-acceptance, leaving one open to being accused of both.

From my experience, those who accuse one of arrogance do it out of jealousy, insecurity, or sheer hatred. Those who accuse you of confidence tend to do it out of a more respectful, caring, or admiring place.

As for humility? You're on your own there - in today's society it's next to impossible to be viewed as humble unless you fail at everything you do.

If all else fails, look it up in a dictionary. :tongue:

 

[DJArendee]

Who the hell has time for dictionaries in this day and age. I got waffles to eat, places to shop, trips to plan, school to attend, chicks to mac, and video games to play.

 

[Functianalyst]

I've been having this debate with myself.

I want to be viewed as a humble man. How do I do this? I ask for feedback from others, I ask what I'm doing wrong, and I try to be modest about my accomplishments. But people keep telling me I "lack confidence." What the hell? So, because I'm trying to act humble, I look like I lack confidence.

So I start acting confident, then people tell me I'm arrogant.

So, I'm starting to believe confidence and arrogance are the same exact thing, but different opinions:
-Arrogance is when someone is jealous of your abilities
-Confidence is when someone admires your abilities

Currently I'm going along with the belief that I just keep my mouth shut, know what I can do, keep the smirk on my face that says "I'm better than you in this area" but don't outwardly brag about myself. Yet the smirk still pisses people off, (though I'm starting to think its just people who are jealous or threatened by my abilities that wish to bring me down to their level of suck). What are your thoughts?

Am I making myself clear? Does anyone see the dilemma I'm having here? How do I be confident and humble at the same time without appearing arrogant?

Unfortunately it’s always in the eye-of-the-beholder. A person lacking confidence may consider you confident, and a humble person may consider you arrogant and vice-versa. The point is your conclusion is correct since acting the part can be sensed by others. Generally someone will know if you are faking it or having to over compensate in appearing that way. Take the compensatory narcissist for example. These types are different than narcissist because they were always told they would mount to nothing, or believed it themselves. Ergo, they behave arrogantly. Being self-assured in what you do and/or know is simply being confident. Boasting and verbally having to advertise your confidence is mere arrogance.

 

[DJArendee]

Ergo,

I'll have to agree, it is a matter of perception.