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Soooo, there have been some new developments. He finally replied after one week. But I provoked him to reply and I have no idea if he would have replied otherwise.
He said that he replies when he has time and energy. And that my rights to write him are equal to his rights meaning that I can write him whenever I want to and he can reply whenever he feels like it.
Did it seem passive aggressive? That sounds a little passive aggressive. I kind of want to drop kick this guy. He makes me angry. Would you like me to drop kick him? I can drop kick him for you.

Considering it wasn’t really the problem at the beginning as he was always replying in a timely manner, I’m not sure how I feel about this. Should I invest any more time in him by initating conversations even if he might take longer to reply? Or should I better take a break from him? He mentioned having even less time in the future so it might be because he really is extra busy now.

But one thing is clear that he probably doesn’t care about me at all otherwise he wouldn’t ignore me for so long. Or maybe he was testing me in some way, but I don’t think that’s true. So because of that it’s probably better to just let him be...
My random internet stranger but detective partner advice would be no, do not invest any more time in this butthead. Except for time spent in our investigation, please continue investing time in that. When people care about another person, they make them a priority. This is a human thing, not a type thing. I don't think he's testing, and even if he was that is all the more reason to bid him adieuuuuu boo 👋
 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
Did it seem passive aggressive? That sounds a little passive aggressive. I kind of want to drop kick this guy. He makes me angry. Would you like me to drop kick him? I can drop kick him for you.



My random internet stranger but detective partner advice would be no, do not invest any more time in this butthead. Except for time spent in our investigation, please continue investing time in that. When people care about another person, they make them a priority. This is a human thing, not a type thing. I don't think he's testing, and even if he was that is all the more reason to bid him adieuuuuu boo 👋
That’s what I decided to do as well. I actually met him at a party tonight - he said hi and that’s all. And I didn’t really make any effort to approach him either. I’m not gonna message him anymore and invest any more time, I don’t think it will lead anywhere. But I’ll remain friendly with him if the opportunity comes to interact with him.
 

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And funny thing he still couldn’t say directly if he wants me to write him or not, even after I once more mentioned about it... gosh, he gets on my nerves 😂
And I agree about making someone a priority if they care about that person. I know that no matter how busy I might be, I will always be able to find the time for the people I care about. And I certainly wouldn’t take one week to read their messages. Reading a message doesn’t take any effort. I might reply later if I’m busy but I always feel bad when I haven’t replied for more than a day. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’m extrovert.
 

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That’s what I decided to do as well. I actually met him at a party tonight - he said hi and that’s all. And I didn’t really make any effort to approach him either. I’m not gonna message him anymore and invest any more time, I don’t think it will lead anywhere. But I’ll remain friendly with him if the opportunity comes to interact with him.
I think this is the best route you could take. I am very proud of you, internet stranger. :)

And funny thing he still couldn’t say directly if he wants me to write him or not, even after I once more mentioned about it... gosh, he gets on my nerves 😂
And I agree about making someone a priority if they care about that person. I know that no matter how busy I might be, I will always be able to find the time for the people I care about. And I certainly wouldn’t take one week to read their messages. Reading a message doesn’t take any effort. I might reply later if I’m busy but I always feel bad when I haven’t replied for more than a day. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’m extrovert.
I don't understand waiting that long either. I'd never wait that long for anyone. I start to feel bad if I don't get back within hours, I worry too much about making them feel upset. I'm sorry again. 😕
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I think this is the best route you could take. I am very proud of you, internet stranger. :)



I don't understand waiting that long either. I'd never wait that long for anyone. I start to feel bad if I don't get back within hours, I worry too much about making them feel upset. I'm sorry again. 😕
Well, to be honest, it is kinda hard right now, but I hope after some time it will be better. I mean, especially after meeting him yesterday I can't stop thinking about him. I have an extreme urge to write to him. My mind is telling me it is better to move on, but some other part of me don't want to let him go. I don't know why, but I feel there is something more to it. I know he treated me horribly by ghosting, but when I see him, my heart melts and I'm unable to be mad at him or anyting. :D It would be easier if I didn't meet him quite regularly... but I'm not willing to give up salsa dancing.

Anyway, if he really is so busy as he says, I'm not going to bother him for a while mainly because of that. Then I can continue observing everything, especially in real life and maybe after some time it will feel ok to contact him again.

Regarding my invastigative work haha, I noticed something yesterday. I'm mentioning it because it is a new behaviour. At one point I was standing outside getting some fresh air and talking to people and he came out as well. He didn't really join the conversation or anything, he just stood there. On one other occassion, he said something to a girl next to me and then stood there again. It felt like he just wanted to be near me. And it had never happened before that he would position himself near me, mostly he was avoiding me. And after recent developments I thought he would be avoiding me even more. So maybe this means something. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Another thought I had - maybe he took "playing hard to get" to the extreme? :D :D
 

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Well, to be honest, it is kinda hard right now, but I hope after some time it will be better. I mean, especially after meeting him yesterday I can't stop thinking about him. I have an extreme urge to write to him. My mind is telling me it is better to move on, but some other part of me don't want to let him go. I don't know why, but I feel there is something more to it. I know he treated me horribly by ghosting, but when I see him, my heart melts and I'm unable to be mad at him or anyting. :D It would be easier if I didn't meet him quite regularly... but I'm not willing to give up salsa dancing.

Anyway, if he really is so busy as he says, I'm not going to bother him for a while mainly because of that. Then I can continue observing everything, especially in real life and maybe after some time it will feel ok to contact him again.

Regarding my invastigative work haha, I noticed something yesterday. I'm mentioning it because it is a new behaviour. At one point I was standing outside getting some fresh air and talking to people and he came out as well. He didn't really join the conversation or anything, he just stood there. On one other occassion, he said something to a girl next to me and then stood there again. It felt like he just wanted to be near me. And it had never happened before that he would position himself near me, mostly he was avoiding me. And after recent developments I thought he would be avoiding me even more. So maybe this means something. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Another thought I had - maybe he took "playing hard to get" to the extreme? :D :D
Yes, I'm sure it is hard right now! It's easy for me to offer encouragement when I'm not the one in your situation. That said, I'm going to keep encouraging you to do what you're doing! Maybe some motivation to help you keep doing that- if I were in his shoes & you suddenly pulled back, that would get the wheels spinning in my head & I'd want to figure out why. Kind of like the affect he's having on you by being so quiet. I guess it's that "hard to get" challenge that's rooted in so many of us. Make yourself a challenge for him. You've stated your intentions, it's his turn to pursue if he wants to. Get him to come after you. There is a problem with this method though- I'd probably just assume you've lost interest if you aren't giving me attention anymore & I'd make myself stop caring about you. If there's any room for confusion, I tend to err on the side of assuming the negative outcome so that I don't feel disappointed down the road. Rather than getting hopes up. With people I care about, I often deny what my brain is intuitively telling me. Soooo....... there is that possible side-effect. 😬

Above all else, he's been a jerk. Even (and especially) if he did care for you, his behavior is sub-par.

I still wonder about our earlier possible theory too. 🙃 Idk. Keep us posted, but in the meantime I hope you resist the urge to message him & keep doing what you're doing. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Yes, I'm sure it is hard right now! It's easy for me to offer encouragement when I'm not the one in your situation. That said, I'm going to keep encouraging you to do what you're doing! Maybe some motivation to help you keep doing that- if I were in his shoes & you suddenly pulled back, that would get the wheels spinning in my head & I'd want to figure out why. Kind of like the affect he's having on you by being so quiet. I guess it's that "hard to get" challenge that's rooted in so many of us. Make yourself a challenge for him. You've stated your intentions, it's his turn to pursue if he wants to. Get him to come after you. There is a problem with this method though- I'd probably just assume you've lost interest if you aren't giving me attention anymore & I'd make myself stop caring about you. If there's any room for confusion, I tend to err on the side of assuming the negative outcome so that I don't feel disappointed down the road. Rather than getting hopes up. With people I care about, I often deny what my brain is intuitively telling me. Soooo....... there is that possible side-effect. 😬

Above all else, he's been a jerk. Even (and especially) if he did care for you, his behavior is sub-par.

I still wonder about our earlier possible theory too. 🙃 Idk. Keep us posted, but in the meantime I hope you resist the urge to message him & keep doing what you're doing. :)
I had the same idea, that pulling back might make him more interested in me. But like you said, it is also risky.

I guess it is ok if I will still continue liking some of his posts on facebook? That shouldn’t do any harm.
 

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I haven’t been single for decades. These were the days before cell phones and texting. It’s pathetic, but when I would run into a girl on campus some time after a date that didn’t go so well the first blather out of my mouth would be about how busy I was. It was instinct, and I believe the girls recognized it as total BS. Hopefully that’s not what you’re experiencing here.

I suppose you should be looking for not only interest from this fellow, but a total transformation in attitude. That is, he should not only act like he values you, he should acknowledge that he has treated you kind of shabbily. Otherwise you may be in for a wild ride with this fellow that doesn’t end well. An earlier poster pointed out that he’s 40. I wouldn’t expect big changes unless you plainly see big changes.

All the best.
 

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Just finished reading the entire thread, there isn't much else I can say that someone else hasn't already.

If he hasn't responded positively to your honesty, chances are he isn't interested or is unsure what to do. Or both.

Because if I wasn't into a girl and she said she wanted to get to know me better, first thought in my head is that this could lead to a discussion about being in a relationship and therefore I'd have to find a way out without hurting the girl.

I've always considered people's feelings and I know that having to let down a person that is interested in me because I don't feel the same almost always hurts the person. No matter how softly you do it. So that's when I start thinking "how do I avoid hurting her and get her to give up on me simultaneously". Then you start seeing the weird and confusing behavior. He'll hug you, but anything that has to do with getting to him, he's suddenly quiet and not participate. You tell him that you don't wanna be pushy and don't wanna text him too much, then he says it's not right for him to control how much you text him. He's right, he shouldn't be too comfortable controlling how much you do anything really, but that's just him responding without really responding. He probably wants you to stop, but is too "polite" to do so.

I'm normally direct, but every once in a while, when I'm too exhausted for some reason, my ENFP wife will ask me if I'm angry about something and I'll say that I'm okay. Just to avoid having to socialize further when I'm at a point where I need my space to recharge and deal with my feelings. I prefer dealing with my feelings myself because when I'm too open with anyone about my negative feelings, a lot of the time it doesn't make me feel better and I take care of myself anyway. So what happens is my wife believes me and carries on ENFPing all over me which ultimately leads to me asking myself "why am I like this". =/ Sounds like what happened when you asked him if you were bothering him. He's not gonna tell you. He's gonna "sacrifice his own comfort for yours". But actually he's "benefiting" too by not being direct and open. Picking the lesser of two evils.

Someone on this thread said that you should imagine actually getting with this guy and having to communicate through serious topics. Finding a solution or a compromise I imagine will be even more frustrating than asking him if you're texting him too much. =/

My ENFP wife told me once that when she wants something, she really really wants it and will work towards achieving it. I wouldn't spend anymore thoughts or hope on this guy. Secrets and hiding don't nurture a relationship. Openness and honesty does.
 

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Just finished reading the entire thread, there isn't much else I can say that someone else hasn't already.

If he hasn't responded positively to your honesty, chances are he isn't interested or is unsure what to do. Or both.

Because if I wasn't into a girl and she said she wanted to get to know me better, first thought in my head is that this could lead to a discussion about being in a relationship and therefore I'd have to find a way out without hurting the girl.

I've always considered people's feelings and I know that having to let down a person that is interested in me because I don't feel the same almost always hurts the person. No matter how softly you do it. So that's when I start thinking "how do I avoid hurting her and get her to give up on me simultaneously". Then you start seeing the weird and confusing behavior. He'll hug you, but anything that has to do with getting to him, he's suddenly quiet and not participate. You tell him that you don't wanna be pushy and don't wanna text him too much, then he says it's not right for him to control how much you text him. He's right, he shouldn't be too comfortable controlling how much you do anything really, but that's just him responding without really responding. He probably wants you to stop, but is too "polite" to do so.

I'm normally direct, but every once in a while, when I'm too exhausted for some reason, my ENFP wife will ask me if I'm angry about something and I'll say that I'm okay. Just to avoid having to socialize further when I'm at a point where I need my space to recharge and deal with my feelings. I prefer dealing with my feelings myself because when I'm too open with anyone about my negative feelings, a lot of the time it doesn't make me feel better and I take care of myself anyway. So what happens is my wife believes me and carries on ENFPing all over me which ultimately leads to me asking myself "why am I like this". =/ Sounds like what happened when you asked him if you were bothering him. He's not gonna tell you. He's gonna "sacrifice his own comfort for yours". But actually he's "benefiting" too by not being direct and open. Picking the lesser of two evils.

Someone on this thread said that you should imagine actually getting with this guy and having to communicate through serious topics. Finding a solution or a compromise I imagine will be even more frustrating than asking him if you're texting him too much. =/

My ENFP wife told me once that when she wants something, she really really wants it and will work towards achieving it. I wouldn't spend anymore thoughts or hope on this guy. Secrets and hiding don't nurture a relationship. Openness and honesty does.
Thank you very much! This pretty much cleared away all my doubts.

I have to try to get over him.

But it’s still weird he was much more friendlier with me at the beginning and even flirting a bit. It’s like it was ok until I mentioned I want to get to know him better.
 

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Thank you very much! This pretty much cleared away all my doubts.

I have to try to get over him.

But it’s still weird he was much more friendlier with me at the beginning and even flirting a bit. It’s like it was ok until I mentioned I want to get to know him better.
He possibly felt in control and without responsibility until he started to think about commitment. He was thinking something like,"Oh yeah I'm this handsome salsa man, who doesn't like a handsome guy that knows how to salsa? Everyone wants to hug me, I must be so awesome" and he was happy with that. Then someone comes along and wants something more meaningful and deep and offers it. Now he's thinking,"Well now I can't hug whoever I want or flirt with whoever I want and now I have to think about someone other than myself. I have to feel things, possibly intense things and all I want is to feel at peace with myself. Why would I give that up?" =/

You're more in control of your life and your space and your rules and your needs when you're alone. If anything I said is true, he doesn't know how to be in a relationship and doesn't wanna try or had really bad ones and doesn't trust anyone anymore. Trusting someone else with your heart is a choice. He might be too hurt from his past experiences to make that choice again. He may need a major recharge. Best way to do that is to be alone.

I should stop because I may be totally off. =)
 

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Discussion Starter #53
He possibly felt in control and without responsibility until he started to think about commitment. He was thinking something like,"Oh yeah I'm this handsome salsa man, who doesn't like a handsome guy that knows how to salsa? Everyone wants to hug me, I must be so awesome" and he was happy with that. Then someone comes along and wants something more meaningful and deep and offers it. Now he's thinking,"Well now I can't hug whoever I want or flirt with whoever I want and now I have to think about someone other than myself. I have to feel things, possibly intense things and all I want is to feel at peace with myself. Why would I give that up?" =/

You're more in control of your life and your space and your rules and your needs when you're alone. If anything I said is true, he doesn't know how to be in a relationship and doesn't wanna try or had really bad ones and doesn't trust anyone anymore. Trusting someone else with your heart is a choice. He might be too hurt from his past experiences to make that choice again. He may need a major recharge. Best way to do that is to be alone.

I should stop because I may be totally off. =)
That actually makes a lot of sense! Considering how long he’s been single (maybe even all the time), he might not even be interest in a relationship, or don’t know how to handle it, that’s the impression I have. And I can relate to that in many ways since I’ve also never been in a relationship and I value my freedom and independence a lot.

So, if this is the case and he is avoiding commitment more than actually disliking me, would there be a way how to change his mind and make him want to be in a relationship?
 

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That actually makes a lot of sense! Considering how long he’s been single (maybe even all the time), he might not even be interest in a relationship, or don’t know how to handle it, that’s the impression I have. And I can relate to that in many ways since I’ve also never been in a relationship and I value my freedom and independence a lot.

So, if this is the case and he is avoiding commitment more than actually disliking me, would there be a way how to change his mind and make him want to be in a relationship?
That depends on why he doesn't want a relationship in the first place. But you'd have to ask him and talk to him about it. But he's unwilling to open up. =/
 

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That depends on why he doesn't want a relationship in the first place. But you'd have to ask him and talk to him about it. But he's unwilling to open up. =/
I know... it’s complicated... :(

I still have hopes that maybe he will be able to open up one day.
 

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New developments.

There was another salsa party today and he danced with me! I was surprised. Because I told him that if he doesn’t like me then I’ll stop writing to him and we can also stop dancing with each other. And he didn’t dance with me 2 previous times so I thought he agrees to that. But today was different.

Also at one point I went to the toilet during slower dance and he saw me going away and went outside. After toilet I joined him outside and we were alone just sitting for a while. Then another girl joined and all 3 of us started talking a bit. Still, he doesn’t hug me when meeting or saying goodbye like others. But I would guess these are more positive signs? Or maybe now when I stopped writing to him I am back to his casual acquaintances and he is again more comfortable around me because of that?
 

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New developments.

There was another salsa party today and he danced with me! I was surprised. Because I told him that if he doesn’t like me then I’ll stop writing to him and we can also stop dancing with each other. And he didn’t dance with me 2 previous times so I thought he agrees to that. But today was different.

Also at one point I went to the toilet during slower dance and he saw me going away and went outside. After toilet I joined him outside and we were alone just sitting for a while. Then another girl joined and all 3 of us started talking a bit. Still, he doesn’t hug me when meeting or saying goodbye like others. But I would guess these are more positive signs? Or maybe now when I stopped writing to him I am back to his casual acquaintances and he is again more comfortable around me because of that?
It's possible that because you gave him his space he's more comfortable around you. Since social interaction causes energy loss for us and by giving us space, you'd seem, in our mind, that you understand we need space every once in a while. Though maybe he was just more recharged that day and was prepared for social interaction. If you talk about getting to know him more, he may become distant again. You'll have to test him.
 

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Here it goes, I wrote to him today after two week break. I just asked him straight away if he wants me to write to him. I told him to just say yes or no, but obviosuly I knew he won't be able to say just yes or no haha. I'll quote exactly what he replied: "I don't know. I don't have any plans. If I wanted you to write me, I guess I would ask you questions. I think it is a sign. Honestly, I don't think about it. I already have tons of things to think about and there's little place for new thoughts." Then he mentioned that he wants to have a vacation today that he can't have.

Then I asked if it's possible that in the future there will be a place for new thoughts and he said that of course there will be, at least he hopes so, otherwise he would have thrown out all the books he hasn't read.

It's clear that he is not interested in any kind of new friendships or relationships right now. I can understand that. It's all about priorities and I can imagine feeling the same if I had many things to deal with. And he already mentioned before that he is really busy with work.

@Weiss how do you see this? Could it be his way of gently rejecting me? Or it looks like it could change in the future? Nothing really implies that he dislikes me. And he actually did ask me a few questions at the very beginning and his whole communication style was different, more flirty. So it looks to me as if he doesn't ask me any questions now because of circumstances, not because he has no interest. Also, as I mentioned, he stopped hugging me at one point. And he still acts a bit different around me than everyone else. In a party two days ago, I experienced the famous INFJ stare - he was looking me straight in the eyes while dancing for at least one minute. It was intimidating, but I didn't turn away. :D But I've read it is quite common for them so it might not mean anything. However, I've never noticed him staring in any other girls eyes for so long and so intensely.
 

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I've always found that when INFJs are interested in getting to know me, or are even slightly romantically interested in me, they're experts at "making themselves available". They do this calculated socially aware thing where they aren't super initiative, but they'll put themselves near me, and they'll make it super subtle so that it doesn't come off as odd or anything but they present themselves as "easily engageable" to me with every trick they've got in that mysterious brain of theirs.

It's like the difference between an 'in your face' advertisement to buy something, and a cleverly marketed thing which is more subtle but just seems to be there when it's the most convenient time to buy. INFJs are never 'in your face' (like my style can sometimes be when I choose to) but they sort of do a lot of your job for you in these subtle ways so that it's really convenient and easy for you to engage with them.

I mean that's women, and I've noticed that the men are either also like this or learn to be a little more direct even from what I've seen.

What I will say though, is that you can't always expect someone to just be interested in you. Sometimes people are automatically attracted to you, sometimes people are automatically not interested, sometimes people just need to consider it. My philosophy has always been that if you are interested in them you need to at least test the waters properly and flirt a bit to find out, and from what you've written you're probably going to have to be a little more bold than that to find out.
Huh, that's exactly what I do and I never would have put it to words like that. Very apt.

If someone is really interesting we might do something more. When I tried to get closer to my current wife I sat down next to her and started drawing her. She still has the drawing.
On the one hand it's just being there and being available, on the other hand it's trying to figure out how the other person feels so that you can make a move if that might become relevant.

The worst thing that could happen is that you get to spend a lot of time with someone who you like spending time with.
 
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