[MrSmashem]

After reading in to the cognitive functions, I've determined that ISTP might not necessarily fit me. The description fits pretty well(ESTP's description fits even better), but the cognitive functions seem a little off. I'm pretty sure my thinking style is more Te than Ti and a T would definitely be in my top two cognitive functions. However, none of the top two Te's descriptions fit me at all.

Would somebody please run me through a rough Te vs. Ti course?

 

[AEIOU]

After reading in to the cognitive functions, I've determined that ISTP might not necessarily fit me. The description fits pretty well(ESTP's description fits even better), but the cognitive functions seem a little off. I'm pretty sure my thinking style is more Te than Ti and a T would definitely be in my top two cognitive functions. However, none of the top two Te's descriptions fit me at all.

Would somebody please run me through a rough Te vs. Ti course?

The E/I thing is so easy, even you can figure it out. Don't confuse it with being shy or not shy, not the same things.

I know I'm an Introvert because I don't like hanging out with a lot of people. I'm not big on socializing. Too many conversations drain me instead of energizing me. I prefer a table off to the side away from the crowd.

 

[madhatter]

Where have you been reading about them? What source?

Have you considered INTJ? ISTP, INTJ, and INTP are "look-alike" types, whose function combinations sometimes mimic each other at a surface level.

I'm going to read up on Te and Ti again. I have a understanding of their difference, but it's almost visual in my mind. I think this is what Lenore Thomson would call wholistic in nature...very hard to articulate. That's one difference between Ti and Te: Ti: wholistic; Te: linear, regimented.

(It doesn't help that CognitiveProcesses and BestFitType websites have a Malware infestation!)

 

[madhatter]

Found this at this site:

Comparison of Extraverted and Introverted Thinking:

Extraverted Thinking E_TJ

• Is fed from objective data - facts and borrowed ideas.
  
• Depends upon the facts of experience and regards the abstract idea as unsubstantial and of negligible importance.
  
• Relies on the facts outside of the thinker, which are more decisive than the thinking itself, for soundness and value.
  
• Has as its goal the solution of practical problems, discovery and classification of facts, criticism and modification of generally accepted ideas, planning or programs, and developing of formulas.
  
• Dwells upon the details of the concrete case, including irrelevancies.
  
• Has a tendency to multiply facts until their meaning is smothered and thinking paralyzed.
  
• Consists of a succession of concrete representations that are set in motion not so much by an inner thought activity as by the changing stream of sense perceptions.

Introverted Thinking I_TP

• Is fed from subjective and unconscious roots - archetypes.
  
• Depends upon the abstract idea as the decisive factor, and values facts chiefly as illustrative proofs of the idea.
  
• Relies on the thinker's powers of observation and appreciation and use of the inner wealth of inherited experience for soundness and value.
  
• Has as its goal formulating questions, creating theories, opening up of prospects, yielding insight, and finally, seeing how external facts fit into the framework of the idea or theory it has created.
  
• Seizes upon the similarities of the concrete case, dismissing irrelevancies.
  
• Has a tendency to neglect facts or to coerce them into agreement with the idea, selecting only those which support the idea.
  
• Consists of an inner thought activity, tied loosely if at all to the stream of sense impressions, which are dimmed by the vividness of the stream of inner impressions.

 

[MrSmashem]

The E/I thing is so easy, even you can figure it out. Don't confuse it with being shy or not shy, not the same things.

I know I'm an Introvert because I don't like hanging out with a lot of people. I'm not big on socializing. Too many conversations drain me instead of energizing me. I prefer a table off to the side away from the crowd.

I'm not sure about your intentions, so I'm going let the B/U portion slide.

You still didn't give me an example/description of how I could figure out how I'm either an E or I. Based upon your examples though, I'd have to agree for the most part, depending on the circumstances.

I almost feel as though I could deal without people completely, but that's when I have to get something accomplished. People seem to just get in my way. "If you want something done right, do it yourself," best describes me. In my leisure time however, I think some of the best times I've had were with other people, but I'm not big in to meeting new people. I don't ALWAYS need time alone either, but I do frequently.

Could depression cause an E to become more I?

P.S. My "socializing" lies more in experiences than talking I.E. racing, video games, sports etc. I can't stand small talk, it drives me up the wall. If someone wants to talk to me, it'd better be important.

 

[madhatter]

Oh, and here are some useful sites:

Extraverted Thinking

and

Introverted Thinking

 

[MrSmashem]

Found this at this site:

Comparison of Extraverted and Introverted Thinking:

Extraverted Thinking E_TJ

• Is fed from objective data - facts and borrowed ideas.
  
• Depends upon the facts of experience and regards the abstract idea as unsubstantial and of negligible importance.
  
• Relies on the facts outside of the thinker, which are more decisive than the thinking itself, for soundness and value.
  
• Has as its goal the solution of practical problems, discovery and classification of facts, criticism and modification of generally accepted ideas, planning or programs, and developing of formulas.
  
• Dwells upon the details of the concrete case, including irrelevancies.
  
• Has a tendency to multiply facts until their meaning is smothered and thinking paralyzed.
  
• Consists of a succession of concrete representations that are set in motion not so much by an inner thought activity as by the changing stream of sense perceptions.

Introverted Thinking I_TP

• Is fed from subjective and unconscious roots - archetypes.
  
• Depends upon the abstract idea as the decisive factor, and values facts chiefly as illustrative proofs of the idea.
  
• Relies on the thinker's powers of observation and appreciation and use of the inner wealth of inherited experience for soundness and value.
  
• Has as its goal formulating questions, creating theories, opening up of prospects, yielding insight, and finally, seeing how external facts fit into the framework of the idea or theory it has created.
  
• Seizes upon the similarities of the concrete case, dismissing irrelevancies.
  
• Has a tendency to neglect facts or to coerce them into agreement with the idea, selecting only those which support the idea.
  
• Consists of an inner thought activity, tied loosely if at all to the stream of sense impressions, which are dimmed by the vividness of the stream of inner impressions.

Based on these points, I'd say I'm more Ti than Te, but I still have some Te characteristics. Given that's figured out, it's a battle between ISTP and ESTP. How would I determine that?

P.S. I'm not very social, but I could talk my way out of anything. I often choose not to though, because I try and refrain from being deceptive. What would be some key traits/differences between ISTP and ESTP?

 

[madhatter]

What do you feel that you use more...and not just "use" more, but what defines you more, introverted Thinking or extraverted Sensing? Because when I read a profile on extraverted Sensing, there are a lot of moments when I'm think, "Yes, this is me." But, more often, it's "no, I'm not like that." It's because Se is only secondary. Read Se and Ti separately, read ISTP and ESTP, and see what fits best. Only you can really know.

 

[madhatter]

Here are some links for the extraverted perceiving functions:

Extraverted Intuition

and

Extraverted Sensation

 

[MrSmashem]

Here are some links for the extraverted perceiving functions:

Extraverted Intuition

and

Extraverted Sensation

When I think, Ti assisting my Se, it sounds right. I often times act, then think, but a lot of that stems from the feeling that "I don't have time to think." I've heard that ISTP's can become so adept at thinking quickly, that it seems almost as if no thought was applied. When given a choice that provides time to think, I do. Could that be a tell-tail sign of Ti/Se?

The descriptions are what mostly confuse me. Both ISTP and ESTP sound a lot like me.

What are the core differences between the two and how would depression affect these types?

 

[madhatter]

Where's Functianalyst when I need him?

Okay, found my notes. Both types use Se and Ti as their dominant and auxiliary functions, but flip flopped. It's hard at first to see the differences. A fresh way to look at them is the Interaction styles. Unfortunately, the website is not safe (malware), but I did jot some notes down about them.

ESTP and ISTP do not share an Interaction style.

ESTPs use the In-Charge interaction style. In-Charge have the following characteristics, and I quote:

• Getting things accomplished through people
• Focused on results, often thinking quickly
• Driving energy with an intention to lead a group to a goal
• Make decisions quickly
• Hate wasting time and having to back track
• Notice right away what's not working in a situation, painfully aware of what needs to be fixed, healed or corrected
• Mentoring (NF), Executing actions (SP), supervising (SJ), or strategizing/mobilizing (NT)

ESTPs share this style with ESTJs, ENFJs, and ENTJs.

ISTPs use the Chart-the-Course interactions style. These are Chart-the-Course characteristics...quote:

• Course of action to follow
• Prefer to enter a situation having an idea of what is to happen
• Identify process to accomplish goal
• Have somewhat contained tension as they work to create and monitor a plan
• Aim is not the plan itself, but to use it as a guide to move things toward a goal
• Decisions based on: analyzing (SP), outlining (SJ), conceptualizing (NT), foreseeing (NF)

ISTPs share this style with ISTJs, INTJs, and INFJs.

What do you identify with more here?

 

[MrSmashem]

Where's Functianalyst when I need him?

Okay, found my notes. Both types use Se and Ti as their dominant and auxiliary functions, but flip flopped. It's hard at first to see the differences. A fresh way to look at them is the Interaction styles. Unfortunately, the website is not safe (malware), but I did jot some notes down about them.

ESTP and ISTP do not share an Interaction style.

ESTPs use the In-Charge interaction style. In-Charge have the following characteristics, and I quote:

• Getting things accomplished through people
• Focused on results, often thinking quickly
• Driving energy with an intention to lead a group to a goal
• Make decisions quickly
• Hate wasting time and having to back track
• Notice right away what's not working in a situation, painfully aware of what needs to be fixed, healed or corrected
• Mentoring (NF), Executing actions (SP), supervising (SJ), or strategizing/mobilizing (NT)

ESTPs share this style with ESTJs, ENFJs, and ENTJs.

ISTPs use the Chart-the-Course interactions style. These are Chart-the-Course characteristics...quote:

• Course of action to follow
• Prefer to enter a situation having an idea of what is to happen
• Identify process to accomplish goal
• Have somewhat contained tension as they work to create and monitor a plan
• Aim is not the plan itself, but to use it as a guide to move things toward a goal
• Decisions based on: analyzing (SP), outlining (SJ), conceptualizing (NT), foreseeing (NF)

ISTPs share this style with ISTJs, INTJs, and INFJs.

What do you identify with more here?

It's difficult to determine which relates most to me. I've been struggling with depression over the past few years (ROUGH childhood) and I'm not sure if that's affecting my social side. I was ALWAYS a leader when I was young, but as I grew older I faced a lot of rejection and had a few traumatic experiences. I'm not sure if I'm genuinely introverted(avoiding groups and such) because of that.

Seeing I'm still struggling to answer that question, could you explain the affects of depression on these types?

P.S. As a child before these negative experiences, I wasn't a social butterfly. I kept to myself and typically had few friends. I didn't have a problem with walking up to someone(most people) and introducing myself, however. I definitely had a take charge, kind of attitude, rather than let everyone do their own thing, when trying to accomplish a group-oriented goal and I often tried to do things as a group rather than an individual(although I did like to do things on my own on occasion).

 

[dagnytaggart]

Alternatively, which takes more energy and stress to use:

Fe or Ni?

Is it more of an ordeal to worry about group harmony and diplomacy, or to construct internal visions of possibilities using what you already know?

note: I'm not Ni-dom, so I may not be describing Ni correctly, but it's my learned understanding of it. Ask an INxJ to be sure.

 

[AEIOU]

Could depression cause an E to become more I?

Maybe you should consider dealing with your depression first (if you are).
Depression that lasts and lasts isn't good. Most cases of depression pass, but if yours doesn't, you might consider seeking professional medical assistance or help.
Then when you are feeling better you can get back to finding out who the real you is.

 

[madhatter]

^^^Hmm, I'm not really sure how depression would affect the two types. Maybe you can start a thread in the ESTP forum asking them about depression. Here's a thread where the conversation turns to depression; it might give you some insight how depression can affect an ISTP.

@God, when did you change your type to ESTP? What made you decide against ENTP?

 

[MrSmashem]

Maybe you should consider dealing with your depression first (if you are).
Depression that lasts and lasts isn't good. Most cases of depression pass, but if yours doesn't, you might consider seeking professional medical assistance or help.
Then when you are feeling better you can get back to finding out who the real you is.

I'm fine. I've dealt with it for awhile and it's improved. I've never had nor ever will I have thoughts of suicide, self-harm etc. That's far beyond what I've been experiencing. I recently took a course to obtain my security license and during a section of the class, the instructor began to discuss depression, which was relevant to the class topic. He said, "The best description of depression I heard was by 'x.' He said, 'True depression isn't sadness. It isn't having a woe is me attitude. It isn't anger. It's to think, if one were to present you with a wand that could solve all of the problems of your life-all you had to do is pick it up, it's not worth it."

That's more-so what I've felt. I deal with it. It may be constant, but it'll get better in time. I think most of the issue is rooted in my lifestyle. I don't get out much. I wind up sitting and thinking most of the day. It's really beginning to take a toll on me. I'm beginning to feel "trapped" in my head, if you will. I have a job now, I start soon, so hopefully that will help and I'm beginning to take steps towards the military. Soon enough, I'll be back to normal again.

P.S. I'm not the type of guy to seek out help. I keep the REAL problems to myself. I know when I really NEED help and when I don't. I refuse asprins for headaches, I won't seek a professional if I can find the info on my own etc.

 

[U-80]

@God, when did you change your type to ESTP? What made you decide against ENTP?

She's working her way up to ISTP.

 

[MrSmashem]

^^^Hmm, I'm not really sure how depression would affect the two types. Maybe you can start a thread in the ESTP forum asking them about depression. Here's a thread where the conversation turns to depression; it might give you some insight how depression can affect an ISTP.

@God, when did you change your type to ESTP? What made you decide against ENTP?

Thanks for the post. I did identify with some of the descriptions I read.

 

[ThoughtProcess]

Depression will most certainly make you more withdrawn, introvert or extrovert.

 

[alionsroar]

ESTP Personal Growth
ISTP Personal Growth

has info on possible problems for ESTP/ISTP people. Apparently to solve one's problems, one needs to use their top two functions more. So less imagining about irrelevant stuff with Ni and less making feelings the basis of one's decisions is needed.