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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ne - Concrete Intuition, Transformative, Realistic, Ambitious, Creates the future

Ni - Abstract Intuition, Symbolic, Reads between lines, Perceives deeper meaning, Hunches about the future


The Intuitive functions come with automated ideas but they aren't dealing with conscious ideas, theories, or deliberate thoughts.

Ni reads between lines and makes one feel convicted about what is to come of the future. However, one does not sit around connecting one idea to the next to guess what the future will be.

For example: I get a vision in the form of a symbol & immediately I "know" what it means. (You may be right or totally off the mark) but either way, it's not an analytical function.

Or.. When someone says something to you and you already know the underlying meaning..but it's an automatic knowledge not a conscious interpretation.


Ne is the part of us that gets hunches about a future we have the possibility to create. The possibilities associated with Ne are only generated when something new is present. It's like playing the lottery due to the possibility of becoming rich. The "ideas" that come with Ne are not ones that are being connected consciously. Just like Ni, Ne "ideas" are automatic like hunches. (Such as playing a lottery for the sake of a possible win..) ..Conscious theorizing don't go into Ne.

For example: An Ne user can look at a microwave and automatically get a notion to turn it into a robotic dog. It's a spur of the moment idea, not going A+B+C+D = E.

Ni isn't the function that makes people "stuck in their heads" either because it's not analytical nor a thinking function. Ni dominant is less aware of aesthetic surroundings because Se is inferior. It's always picking up the in betweens in life and may present weird perceptions to Ni users...making them odd folk.

Ne is also the more concrete of the 2 intuitions because it wants to see materialization in objective reality. So, Ne users such as ENFPs & INFPs are not sitting around dreaming up fairytales.Fi users are idealistic but not imaginary.. Ne is also not the "I don't know" function,.. Saying "I don't know anything and neither do you" is a common sense statement not Ne.
... nor is it the "possibilities" function, alone. Both intuitions generate possibilities but in different ways.

Ne also has the capacity to become obsessed with one possibility and be single focused until they see their ideal materialized. They don't bounce from one thing to another because they're scatterbrained...That ONLY happens IF a BETTER opportunity presents itself.

Just like Ne likes opportunities & sees possibilities to create/transform in new territory, Ni sees possibilities generated from one vision about themselves , others, life, or the future. Ni isn't creating the future but is instead predicting it. Ni gives us insight but it's not taught or thought into.. Ni also has the capacity from moving from one symbol/vision to the next just as much as the Ne user does.

Anything that deals with analysis, conscious ideas & theory is Ti/Te. So why do "INFJs" make it a thing to say they are "stuck in their thoughts" due to Ni? Even though they have Ti in the stack, Fe comes before it.

It makes some come across as Ti dom...and it's confusing.

Consciously narrowing one idea down to one and vice versa has nothing to do with N functions. That's analytics.

INFJs are the types to be able to "tell" what you mean to say if you speak indirectly...or perhaps in pig Latin, too..they're also able to stare you in the eyes, the whole time you're talking but they subtly pick up body language ques without realizing they're doing it. So they end up "knowing" things about you such as you are a nervous person. As an Se dom, I will deliberately look at your hands & etc but that's what I mean by the Ni dom reading between lines & being removed from sensory perceptions.

Ne doms look at people and automatically "get" things such as "You look like you could be a baseball player!" Unconscious Si let's Ne doms know what baseball players look like, their height, stature, etc but Ne doms don't realize this. So, they can transform people and things...if they decide to pursue those hunches...but both are automatic...
 

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Ni - bullshit artist.
Ne - bullshit artist extraordinaire.
 

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I disagree that N users don't sit around and imagine ideas. Intuition is automatic but you can place yourself in the mental position to create ideas, i.e. brainstorming. Or by taking one idea generated by F/T and spur possibilities and theorize with the help of intuition.
and I'm not sure why you say we don't sit down and dream of fairy tales cause that's news to me xD
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I disagree that N users don't sit around and imagine ideas. Intuition is automatic but you can place yourself in the mental position to create ideas, i.e. brainstorming. Or by taking one idea generated by F/T and spur possibilities and theorize with the help of intuition.
and I'm not sure why you say we don't sit down and dream of fairy tales cause that's news to me xD
I'm not saying N users don't sit around & imagine ideas, I'm saying the N functions aren't responsible for it. You can ponder your auto-idea but the auto-idea is the N. Once you get into pondering your idea & organizing them it's T. I can't think of why INFPs would dream up fairy tales, in particular.

Fi = ideal image and Ne = Materialization in objective reality.

Infps would have realistic ideals, not fairytales. Help me understand.

Ti has the ability to analyze things into new possibilities but it's not the same as Ne visuals for opportunity & transformation.
 
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N types have amazing, creative, original minds - fantasy, imagination, ideas, possibilities.

Simpleton S types have no thoughts they just look at the apple and it's either green, or reminds them of an apple that was green.
 

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I'm not saying N users don't sit around & imagine ideas, I'm saying the N functions aren't responsible for it. You can ponder your auto-idea but the auto-idea is the N. Once you get into pondering your idea & organizing them it's T. I can't think of why INFPs would dream up fairy tales, in particular.

Fi = ideal image and Ne = Materialization in objective reality.

Infps would have realistic ideals, not fairytales. Help me understand.

Ti has the ability to analyze things into new possibilities but it's not the same as Ne visuals for opportunity & transformation.
They are responsible because you introduce an idea with your F and N starts seeing possibilities.
I can dream 'fairytales' based on my values, i.e. the way I want love to be but I can introduce/brainstorm details such as people and characters unlike my own to see how the tale would unfold. It's a combo of F+N. Same goes for writing, for NFPs probably. This also serves as a way to explore different ideals and emotions that we may not believe in (yet) or experience in our lives (reality).

Also I think everything is based on reality somehow, it's just that it may not be in our actual reality, in the now. So for example when I was a kid I would imagine stuff in my head in order to feel emotions I hadn't experienced yet, taking inspiration from other people or the TV etc, so in that way it was grounded in reality as I knew it existed.

N can also be disconnected from reality in the sense that the chances of the imagined happening are next to zero, but it's just a nice thing to visualize (feels good etc). It can just be an automated visual that we stick with cause it's nice.
 

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N types have amazing, creative, original minds - fantasy, imagination, ideas, possibilities.

Simpleton S types have no thoughts they just look at the apple and it's either green, or reminds them of an apple that was green.
Lol! I laughed out loud at this. Nice one, Turi.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
N types have amazing, creative, original minds - fantasy, imagination, ideas, possibilities.

Simpleton S types have no thoughts they just look at the apple and it's either green, or reminds them of an apple that was green.
I like your sense of humor :)
 
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
They are responsible because you introduce an idea with your F and N starts seeing possibilities.
I can dream 'fairytales' based on my values, i.e. the way I want love to be but I can introduce/brainstorm details such as people and characters unlike my own to see how the tale would unfold. It's a combo of F+N. Same goes for writing, for NFPs probably. This also serves as a way to explore different ideals and emotions that we may not believe in (yet) or experience in our lives (reality).

Also I think everything is based on reality somehow, it's just that it may not be in our actual reality, in the now. So for example when I was a kid I would imagine stuff in my head in order to feel emotions I hadn't experienced yet, taking inspiration from other people or the TV etc, so in that way it was grounded in reality as I knew it existed.

N can also be disconnected from reality in the sense that the chances of the imagined happening are next to zero, but it's just a nice thing to visualize (feels good etc). It can just be an automated visual that we stick with cause it's nice.
What you describe is still a realistic ideal though. If you have a way you wish you were, which I think is an Fi ideal image wouldn't you look for opportunities to express that in the real world or seek to make it a reality via Ne? ..unless you are just stuck in your idealism and not working towards it..that would seem to be the case.

When I say fairytales, I mean things that have no chance of materializing. Perhaps I should rephrase & say "intangibles." In such a case, I think we are dealing with Ni visuals & psychological characters. If Se speaks of objective reality & what the senses can verify... then it would only make sense that visuals & intangible realities, (the spiritual plane & so forth).. are more of an Ni thing.

The E functions are without so Ne is going outward. Ni is going inward. That would be the N function that gives visualizations. I'd think a stagnant ISFP would be more prone to fantasizing in such a manner while INFP would be the idealistic dreamer, hoping for a better world or life...and if they knew the steps to take it, they would... Ne/Te

Fi is idealistic in/of itself. Ni is intangible/imaginary. So both INFs can imagine themselves a certain way but an INFJ or more like the unhealthy ISFP may tie him/herself to a 5th dimensional messianic type while the INFP will dream up being a famous singer or w/e.. Ne wants to be materialized....

That's why I don't tie intangible reality as to NFPs.
 

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What you describes is still a realistic ideal though. If you have a way you wish you were, which I think is an Fi ideal image & wouldn't you look for opportunities to express that in the real world or seek to make it a reality via Ne? ..unless you are just stuck in your idealism and not working towards it..that would seem to be the case.

When I say fairy tales, I mean things that have no chance of materializing. In such a case, I think we are dealing with Ni visuals & psychological characters.

The E functions are without so Ne is going outward. Ni is going inward. That would be the N function that gives visualizations. I'd think an ISFP would be more prone to fantasizing in such a manner while INFP would be the idealistic dreamer, hoping for a better world or life...and if they knew the steps to take it, they would. Ne/Te
Perhaps it was the example I gave, but I can equally imagine things that are unrealistic, like having a magic wand to heal someone and take pleasure from that so much that I'd spend more time in that daydream again and again. I don't know what to say about that Ni part you mention, I don't have an opinion on that I frankly dunno. I do all of the examples I've given so far including the Ni part you mentioned. Maybe how imagination works cannot entirely be defined by MBTI. As I grow older I do partake less in those completely unrealistic scenarios and stick with the highly unlikely ones, mostly because they usually pain me, as it's entirely wishful thinking.

The rest of your post about the daily life, I agree that N is automatic, it's just that you can put yourself in a position to utilize it, by brainstorming or reflecting intentionally. Reflecting helps me connect dots I missed in the moment and gives me valuable insight.
I've also noticed, that many times, intuition can work by engaging in other activities that create spontaneous thoughts, like exercise, coloring, listening to music etc.
 

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N types have amazing, creative, original minds - fantasy, imagination, ideas, possibilities.

Simpleton S types have no thoughts they just look at the apple and it's either green, or reminds them of an apple that was green.
Bro. Why do you revive this competition between N & S in every thread that has nothing to do with it? Just let it die man.
 

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N types have amazing, creative, original minds - fantasy, imagination, ideas, possibilities.

Simpleton S types have no thoughts they just look at the apple and it's either green, or reminds them of an apple that was green.
Lol! I laughed out loud at this. Nice one, Turi.
N types have amazing, creative, original minds - fantasy, imagination, ideas, possibilities.

Simpleton S types have no thoughts they just look at the apple and it's either green, or reminds them of an apple that was green.
I like your sense of humor :)
And then y’all gassing him up like he’s funny.. shit is old now. We know S types can imagine, who doesn’t know that at this point? Beating a dead imaginary horse...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Perhaps it was the example I gave, but I can equally imagine things that are unrealistic, like having a magic wand to heal someone and take pleasure from that so much that I'd spend more time in that daydream again and again. I don't know what to say about that Ni part you mention, I don't have an opinion on that I frankly dunno. I do all of the examples I've given so far including the Ni part you mentioned. Maybe how imagination works cannot entirely be defined by MBTI. As I grow older I do partake less in those completely unrealistic scenarios and stick with the highly unlikely ones, mostly because they usually pain me, as it's entirely wishful thinking.

The rest of your post about the daily life, I agree that N is automatic, it's just that you can put yourself in a position to utilize it, by brainstorming or reflecting intentionally. Reflecting helps me connect dots I missed in the moment and gives me valuable insight.
I've also noticed, that many times, intuition can work by engaging in other activities that create spontaneous thoughts, like exercise, coloring, listening to music etc.
I agree with you that you can put yourself in a position so that you can get the N wheels turning. That's what makes Ne excited. Putting Ne doms into new situations or placing an ENTP who is gadget oriented into a new lab will set off their Ne. Anyone has the ability to imagination but Ni dominants would be better at visualization or Ni users due to the absence of external sensory stimuli.

I will lay off of INFP/INTP but I'll say ENPs will not be all unicorns and spirituality like I've seen the stereotype. Ne doms seek possibilities in tangible reality. They expand on Extraverted Sensation. ENFP sees potential to transform people and ENTP sees potential to transform things.

The reason I spoke the way I did about INFP is because of what Jung wrote about Fi doms. He addressed the Fi Dom's ideal image but he also addressed that they seek to express Fi ideals & values through Se/Ne. This is why I say INFP is more concrete than INFJ.

Anyways, I guess this went off topic from my original point. My point is that conscious thinking and intuition are often mixed up.

Ne and Se both generate ideas but they are random. Like I'll look at a steep hill and automatically think to run down it but it's not my introverted thinking. It's Se-impulsive ideas.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
And then y’all gassing him up like he’s funny.. shit is old now. We know S types can imagine, who doesn’t know that at this point? Beating a dead imaginary horse...
I am not gassing anyone up.. It's the first time I've seen that person & I took it as too ignorant of a post to be serious.. ."

While I'm at it though, I'm a bomb ass sensor very in touch with my intuitive side.. I just don't prioritize it. :p
 

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And then y’all gassing him up like he’s funny.. shit is old now. We know S types can imagine, who doesn’t know that at this point? Beating a dead imaginary horse...
How can you not see the satire in what he was saying? It was a joke about how ridiculous the N vs S stereotypes are.

Edit: maybe @spaceynyc is fooling us, and flipping it. Sarcasm spread over sarcasm. What a beast.
 

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Random thoughts that are semi-related to the thread..

Acting on hunches and gut feelings isn't Ni, or Ne - it's Fi.

Actively seeking information to flesh out the big picture isn't Ni nor Ne, it's Se.

Losing track of time reading book or on internet forums or wiki etc isn't Ni nor Ne, it's Se.

Synthesising everyone's opinions into a best fit decision isn't Ni, it's Fe.

Predicting the future could be linked to basically every function.

Getting "vibes" from people or things isn't Ni, it's Si+Fi, don't care whether they're in your "stack" or not.

Brainstorming ideas itself isn't function related.

Not everyone who asks for a source or uses facts at any point in their life is a Te dom.

Your parents weren't Te-Si types just because they disciplined you for being a shit kid.

Creativity isn't related to Ni nor Ne.

Ni isn't future oriented, it's entirely grounded in the present moment and literally can't function without it.

Being on-time for appointments has nothing to do with anything.

Coming to immediate insights/conclusions when faced with a problem isn't Ni or Ne, it's abductive logic.

I'll stop here.
 

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Acting on hunches and gut feelings isn't Ni, or Ne - it's Fi.
I don't agree. Fi is not a perception function, it doesn't give information about the environment or its possibilities (as in hunches or gut feelings), nor does it predispose someone to act on that type of perception. Fi is a judgment function that understands reality in terms of value and ideals and makes decisions accordingly. Fi can sometimes feel like a pinpointing process that might resemble Intuition, but it has nothing to do with hunches or gut feelings (about the environment) but rather a process of feeling what is ideal or has the most value. I've actually never had a hunch in my life.
 

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I don't agree. Fi is not a perception function, it doesn't give information about the environment or its possibilities (as in hunches or gut feelings), nor does it predispose someone to act on that type of perception. Fi is a judgment function that understands reality in terms of value and ideals and makes decisions accordingly. Fi can sometimes feel like a pinpointing process that might resemble Intuition, but it has nothing to do with hunches or gut feelings (about the environment) but rather a process of feeling what is ideal or has the most value. I've actually never had a hunch in my life.
Keyword was "Acting".
 
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