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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi! I've been trying to figure out my type for the longest time. I've tried everything ranging from asking other, quizzes (I know they aren't that accurate.) I also took the official RHETI. However, my numbers seem to always change and I've never found a type that clicks with me at my core.

Now that I've gained a little more self understanding and finally in a more comfortable state of mind I wanted to try reaching out again.

Here's my questionnaire and answers. I've tried to be as concise as I can!

Prerequisites

What age range are you in? I'm 28.

Any disorders or conditions we should know about? I was previously diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder but my panic attacks were later linked to me having asthma instead.

Main Questions

1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.

I kind of don't know at this point of my life. I've always wanted to do something that benefits others. I see so much wrong going on in the world and I know people are rallying behind causes or taking action to do constructive improvements. Others may be concerned about money but I would be okay with enough to support myself, my family, and help others.

I have to really enjoy myself in what I'm doing or else I won't have passion for it. One of my original dreams/goals was working in the game industry and being a leader in the field. It was originally climbing and becoming the CEO, but now I really would like to do creative and meaningful work of my own. I'd like to be in full control of my work/life and live on my own rules and schedules. Unfortunately I've been in situations where I'm working for others (doing menial work) and it makes me miserable. I feel like I'm wasting my potential. I think potential is a big thing for me though. I want to achieve and make a mark on the world, but I don't want that drive or goal of helping others to put me in pain. I want to be able to enjoy my life and feel fulfilled. Fulfillment is really my goal at the end of the day.

2. What were you like as a kid?

As a child, I was a bit different. I did a lot of talking and was really curious about things before I went to school. I was also drawn to technology and used the computer from a very early age. I remember always trying to understand things, understand the world, because things seemed alien/foreign to me. After going to school, some things happened (wanted to follow the rules and do what was right) which led me to not talking a lot. I would still behave like my normal self at home, but it almost felt as if I developed two personalities: a me around others outside of my comfort and a me in situations I feel comfortable (family, close friends.) It's hard to know which is the real me. I think this is where a divide was created where I couldn't really understand myself, since I tended to let my real solid self go around others. Basically when others are involved, I feel I would lose myself. Although I presented myself as a child as kind, humble, rule-abiding, underneath I felt so many different emotions that were much different. Not necessarily wanting to harm but wanting to be more free.

Aside from that, I was always quick to make friends, though I never really sought friends out. I had trouble following routines, guidelines, directions, and wasn't very orderly. It wasn't until later that I began able to fake expertise in these areas, but they're still very stressful to me.

3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?

I was raised by my mom, no father figure. My aunt would take care of me when my mom worked. When I was younger, I couldn't really relate to my family on a deeper level. At the same time, I did a lot to keep them happy. A lot of the time, I did not ask for things even though I wanted them, and pretending to not need help. I was always well-behaved but I would sometimes suffer from tantrums. I wasn't comfortable telling secrets or entrusting them with my raw emotions or fears; I had to be pushed to certain limits. I was also frustrated when certain things happened but I wasn't aware of the reason. Outside of that, I think I had a good family life and childhood.

4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?

I like to be open-minded and not really bulldoze others. I think people should be able to do what they want and that sometimes rules and restrictions get in the way of that. I really don't want to become a person with old-fashioned and close minded beliefs, or someone who harms others because of their own pain. I always want to keep some sense of optimism and be someone others can look up to. Most importantly, I want to try to keep my peace of mind and common sense, not behaving erratically or doing things that will make others uncomfortable.

5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?

I was really afraid of being harmed. I could be a little bit of a hypochondriac, but mostly being harmed by other people or freak accidents. I had a fear of choking, being attacked, silly things like a boardwalk over the ocean collapsing and drowning, being bitten by a poisonous snake, etc. It wasn't necessarily that I thought I would be killed, it was how it would affect those close to me and how I would deal with what happens afterwards. It wasn't the pain, it was the effects that would happen.

I was also really scared of breaking the rules. Not necessarily by the book rules (I wasn't good with those) but being seen as a bad child. For instance in elementary school I made sure to do everything right and be on my best behavior so my performance card would not be moved from green to red. (Green was for those with good conduct, red was bad.) Normally students would be upset about this because their parents reaction, but for me it was more so that I didn't want to be seen as a problem, bad child. For some reason this was really important to me and I don't know why. One time I had my card moved due to something another student did and I was trying to get them to do the right thing at that time. It made me so upset I remember crying for so long...it seems really silly to look back on it.

6. a.) How do you see yourself?
b.) How do you want others to see you?
c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?

I kind of don't know. It's hard for me to know "me" without it being reflected back at me by someone else. I guess I see myself as a person that tries really hard to do the right thing but makes mistakes along the way. I feel like a failure a lot of the time, due to not reaching the goals I set for myself or for betraying my values. Even though I've accomplished a lot, I still sometimes feel like nothing. I'd like for others to see me as someone respectable, approachable, and interesting.

In others, I dislike when they blatantly disregard others feelings and do things specifically to harm others. I also don't like people who see things with a solely "bad" view or try to rely overly on logic to explain the world. I feel it's a really limiting view. At the same time, I don't like people who disregard any sort of intellectual opinion or common sense. Example: people refusing to listen to reason, doing things that are causing problems for others, etc.

7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.

This is tricky. I think a. is definitely rank 3. If you leave me alone and tell me to work on myself or something only I will benefit, I won't ever start it. However, betterment for others is big for me. But I think I only do so because it serves to create tranquility in myself or the world (fulfillment.) I'd like to be fulfilled of course so there's some self-interest, but I also want others to be as well. So my ranking is:

1. B
2. C
3. A

8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?

Oh boy, this usually takes me in a lot of different directions. Current events, things I could be doing, how things could be improved/better, if I'm truly living up to what I want for myself, how I can better help others, why someone is doing something and what is their motives, or analyzing something I've recently interacted with (ex. analyzing the meanings behind something that just happened or the story of a game, anime, etc.) Usually it's provoked in more of a daydreaming sense when what is happening in front of me is not engaging. Other times, its when something resonates with me deeply. A lot of time, I block out my day with a bunch of activities to keep my mind distracted. Only at night or when I'm fully alone do I feel like I can wonder.

9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

I feel best when I'm doing something I'm really passionate about or have a feeling of hope for the future. I've always had trouble taking care of myself body/mind. The best I was able to do for myself is when I had someone I connected with deeply. Because there was another person to "perform/build myself up" for, I was able to resolve all issues of self care. I ate healthier, was in a better state of mind, looked the best I ever had, got in good shape, and was overall a much more positive person. When our relationship fell apart...all of that felt meaningless. Like the drive to do that upkeep and keep myself together went away and I went back to my usual self. The reason why I think it didn't last is because even though these changes were all made, they weren't for me. They were for someone else. There was better everything, but that click of fulfillment was not there. So it didn't last.

On the flipside, when I don't have a goal or person I'm deeply connected to life can feel meaningless. Like nothing else matters. I can have things, ideas I want to do, but if I'm not taking action towards them it feels as if there's nothing good for me at all. This has been kinda bad cause its created a sort of rise and fall for me in life. I've had times where I felt pretty good and stable and others when life feels miserable. I noticed having someone to latch onto (inexplicably by the way) makes me feel more secure. It's not always, but usually a more romantic thing and usually for someone who needs my help.I don't even seek people out or even let it be known how important people are to me (kind of a fear of vulnerability.)

10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
a.) anger
b.) shame
c.) anxiety

I think I tend to be more frustrated than outright angry. I feel anger in my body though, and it usually affects me in the chest. I don't really have a problem with the emotion but I do have issues expressing it. A lot of times I will be angry at someone or dislike them, but I won't ever express it to them directly.

For shame, I don't really have much experience with this emotion. I can't say I've been that shamed or experienced it that directly. I know I have it, but it feels more foreign than everything else.

Anxiety can be somewhat common, but it may be due to an anxiety disorder than actual anxiety. My main anxiety comes from how things will affect those close to me.

11. Describe how you respond to the following:
a.) stress
b.) negative unexpected change
c.) conflict
12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?

Stress, I tend to live in. It's hard to imagine a time where I'm not stressed. I'm usually stressed around people and being by myself is when I feel the most calm and clear of mind. This doesn't mean I don't like people or like dealing with others. It's one of my favorite things to do, dealing with others, but it can still cause me feelings of panic because people's "expectations." I think people's expectations and potential unpredictability cause me stress but not necessarily people themselves. Stress can also make me more likely to lash out and be more direct with my feelings.

Negative change is very stressful. I don't deal well with unexpected changes at all. At the same time I HATE having a planned schedule. Because if I have upcoming events there's a constant part of my mind that remembers them and tries to mentally prepare for it, which means I can't relax. A free schedule or schedule that I have control over is the best for me.

Conflict, I tend to not really do often. I would sometimes have arguments with those close to me, but I don't seek conflict out. If I can avoid a conflict I will usually do what I can to not have it happen, because its draining to me. I sometimes feel like conflict is only negative, even though I know it's a necessity of life.

13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?

Things in life that we do that don't really make sense and are created just to keep people down. For instance, the way we work as humans. The way certain groups are at odds with each other while others (like the rich) profit. How things can be improved and how we could all be happier people if we just worked together. Very frequently, hidden meanings behind media, life events, and other situations that people tend to take a face value.

14. Comment on your relationship with trust.

I don't really trust people. When I was younger I could be considered too trusting, doing what I could to benefit others without considering being used. As I got older I developed more of an ability to scan for this, but its still very easy for me to unconsciously revert back to trusting a little blindly. It's not natural for me to doubt but more of a learning behavior. Even still, I don't think the trust I experienced as a child was actual trust, but more of a way to make others soften or warm up to me. Because I did not want to be a bad person. I was aware when people were using me, but something kept me from acting on this awareness.

Extra Questions

Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why) - I bolded them

  • To constantly push yourself to be “the best” - Definitely, want to be the best at everything I do
  • To be without needs, well-intentioned - In regards to my family or formal settings
  • To replace direct experience with concepts
  • To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
  • To think that fulfillment is somewhere else - THIS A LOT, I feel like I'll never find the fulfillment I desire
  • To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance - ALSO THIS but it became more common as I got older
  • To overuse imagination in searching for yourself
  • To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself - Have a lot of trouble with this
  • To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient - Kind of but I feel like its not 100% me.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I appreciate any insights I can receive from your feedback!
 

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Hi @SetsunaStarlight,

I propose the following method. Reply only if you wish to go this way. :)

I selected some parts in your text and ask you to relate each of them to one or several types. It is willingly "tricky" in the sense I can select sentences that could relate to several types or sometimes none. Some are selected to take you away from some type(s). Most require reading between the lines.

Before you start, please read these good summaries (maybe a few times) : Energy and the Enneagram. Of course, you can also use anything you already know. Take as much time as you want. Answer as you wish, it is meant to lead to a discussion (it is not a win/lose quiz ;)).
  1. I want to be able to enjoy my life and feel fulfilled.
  2. I remember always trying to understand things, understand the world, because things seemed alien/foreign to me.
  3. Basically when others are involved, I feel I would lose myself.
  4. Although I presented myself as a child as kind, humble, rule-abiding, underneath I felt so many different emotions that were much different. Not necessarily wanting to harm but wanting to be more free.
  5. [Family] I did a lot to keep them happy. A lot of the time, I did not ask for things even though I wanted them, and pretending to not need help.
  6. I was also frustrated when certain things happened but I wasn't aware of the reason.
  7. Most importantly, I want to try to keep my peace of mind and common sense, not behaving erratically or doing things that will make others uncomfortable.
  8. I was trying to get them to do the right thing at that time.
  9. It's hard for me to know "me" without it being reflected back at me by someone else.
  10. I think I tend to be more frustrated than outright angry. I feel anger in my body though, and it usually affects me in the chest. I don't really have a problem with the emotion but I do have issues expressing it. A lot of times I will be angry at someone or dislike them, but I won't ever express it to them directly
  11. For shame, I don't really have much experience with this emotion. I can't say I've been that shamed or experienced it that directly. I know I have it, but it feels more foreign than everything else.
  12. Even still, I don't think the trust I experienced as a child was actual trust, but more of a way to make others soften or warm up to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi @skyboy! Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I took some time to think everything over and then went through the types and how I think it lined up, I put which ones I feel resonate with each type and why in bold. I'm sorry I didn't respond to you right away, this entire process is difficult.

Hi @SetsunaStarlight,
  1. I want to be able to enjoy my life and feel fulfilled. I think this is also 7...being fulfilled is probably my key desire in life. But fulfillment to me is not just being happy, but having a purpose and having peace within myself.
  2. I remember always trying to understand things, understand the world, because things seemed alien/foreign to me. At first I thought type 4, but later I think 5 might fit this more. Since 5s are more withdrawn from the world in a sense of needing knowledge/understanding to become an active part of it. I relate to this because I feel like I don't really understand things or why people do things. Or well I do understand them based on what I've read or experienced, but its hard for me to actually go deeper and really comprehend the reasons things happen. I feel out of place a lot of times and unfit for the way our world works, but not necessarily in the sense of a 4.
  3. Basically when others are involved, I feel I would lose myself. I feel like this is directly 9.
  4. Although I presented myself as a child as kind, humble, rule-abiding, underneath I felt so many different emotions that were much different. This could go with a lot of types...I see 1, 6, and 9 here. Just due to the fact that these types tend to repress certain emotions.
  5. [Family] I did a lot to keep them happy. A lot of the time, I did not ask for things even though I wanted them, and pretending to not need help. I feel like this may relate to type 2. However, I don't really understand if I did these things because I wanted to be repaid or have my needs met. I don't know if I really thought things were transactional, instead it felt like it was just the right thing for me to do. At the same time in romance, I had some issues with partners where I would do a lot for them and receive little in return love, attention, etc. At the same time I had relationships/close friends that gave me that in abundance and it wasn't fulfilling that need. Its hard for me to tell if I'm really doing things for myself or solely for others as I've always been a more humble person. If anything I feel like I owe my family, instead of them owing me.
  6. I was also frustrated when certain things happened but I wasn't aware of the reason. Similar to my previous response, I believe this relates to 5 as well. The frustration was because there was a lack of understanding. If I understood the reasons for certain things, it would have helped me be able to cope and process them. But there was too little explanations especially when I was a child, and was expected just to not worry about things or wonder, so a lot of my understanding I found through my own exploration (relationships with others, individual study, a lot of book reading.) I didn't really learn much from school despite having multiple degrees.
  7. Most importantly, I want to try to keep my peace of mind and common sense, not behaving erratically or doing things that will make others uncomfortable. I thought maybe 9, but I'm thinking this might be more of phobic 6. Peace of mind is something I'd like to have, but unlike a 9 I feel like its very rare for me to have it. If anything I feel like I'm running away from my thoughts and emotions all the time. Instead of escaping darkness and moving into light, I'm trying to escape the light shining on the darkness of my soul. It's really hard to sit with myself, with no external motivators, distractions, or responsibilities to pull me away from my feelings. I feel really out of touch with my feelings, not that I don't know necessarily what they are, but that I'm afraid they will overwhelm me. So they tend to stay stuck in stasis, seeping through only when I have downtime. It's in these downtimes (usually nights) that I can really understand who I am. The more I think about it, its not necessarily about making other people uncomfortable but it makes me uncomfortable. I think I relate this a little to 7 (running away from the bad and the need to introspect which leads to anxiety.)
  8. I was trying to get them to do the right thing at that time. This seems like 1 to me. I read the 1 description on the website you linked and really relate to it, I've always ruled out one because I don't feel I'm that detailed oriented...I've always been careless with details and not really all together (though I may appear differently on the outside now that I think about it.) I thought potentially 6, but it wasn't necessary right as following the book, but what was right for the individual.
  9. It's hard for me to know "me" without it being reflected back at me by someone else. I really don't know what type this would be, 9s from my reading don't seem to be concerned with "themselves" and sixes tend attach to "externals" but for me its more about being reflected back. There's no way for me to check in with myself and say "hey how are we doing self?" It's like this self talk doesn't exist. Or any self talk for that matter, there's just a collection of memories, stories, and voices of others floating around inside. There aren't really many thoughts with intention, if anything my words aren't "thought" about, they just come to me.
  10. I think I tend to be more frustrated than outright angry. I feel anger in my body though, and it usually affects me in the chest. I don't really have a problem with the emotion but I do have issues expressing it. A lot of times I will be angry at someone or dislike them, but I won't ever express it to them directly This again seems like 1, but also with shades of 9. Mostly because 1 deals with feeling anger as frustration or annoyance, and the temper I felt as a child was usually when the anger felt too much to bear. I had gone a really long time trying to do what was right but it still didn't feel like it was enough.
  11. For shame, I don't really have much experience with this emotion. I can't say I've been that shamed or experienced it that directly. I know I have it, but it feels more foreign than everything else. I don't know. I don't know if this signifies I'm not a heart dominant type because of my relation with shame or if I'm just so oblivious to it and it's affects on my life. I can much more readily identify anger and fear than than shame however.
  12. Even still, I don't think the trust I experienced as a child was actual trust, but more of a way to make others soften or warm up to me. Sounds like phobic 6, mostly being compliant and cooperative. However like I mentioned it wasn't real trust. To be honest I don't know what real trust would even look like. I was taught as a child not to trust anyone, only to trust myself. I was always a little bothered by this and even though there have been times I have "trusted" others blindly, it has been based on other reasons not because I have "faith in the person. One of the people I did fully trust (outside of family) was one of my best friends, who I'm sadly apart from now. She was someone I felt I could rely on for anything, tell anything to, and share everything with. It was something I'd never really experienced before and most close relationships I've had were people who felt this way.
 

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Ok. Thanks for the answer.

Let's start with the clearest ones.

1) Let's forget this point, everybody wants to be happy, not just 7s. It was just a kind of joke.:)
3) Agreed with type 9. Can you explain how you relate this point to type 9 ?
8) Yes mostly type 1.
10) Absolutely : type 1 with shades of 9.
11) Yes it should take you away from heart types, mostly type 4. Type 4 is the most self-aware, it does not obliviate shame. Given your level of self-awareness, if you were a 4, you would see shame. 3 are also aware of shame to some degree but you don't have much of type 3 anyway. Type 2 would be the only possibility as shame is turned into pride and remains mostly unaware.

The other answers will need to go a little further. There is a bit of clarification needed about type 2 for example.

As a curiosity, what have you read so far about the Enneagram ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Ok. Thanks for the answer.

Let's start with the clearest ones.

1) Let's forget this point, everybody wants to be happy, not just 7s. It was just a kind of joke.:)
3) Agreed with type 9. Can you explain how you relate this point to type 9 ?
8) Yes mostly type 1.
10) Absolutely : type 1 with shades of 9.
11) Yes it should take you away from heart types, mostly type 4. Type 4 is the most self-aware, it does not obliviate shame. Given your level of self-awareness, if you were a 4, you would see shame. 3 are also aware of shame to some degree but you don't have much of type 3 anyway. Type 2 would be the only possibility as shame is turned into pride and remains mostly unaware.

The other answers will need to go a little further. There is a bit of clarification needed about type 2 for example.

As a curiosity, what have you read so far about the Enneagram ?
Happy New Year btw!

To answer your question about reading...I've read and done a lot of studying! I've watched type panels, read books such as the wisdom of the enneagram, among others. Listened to podcasts, listened to sleeping at last songs. Basically everything. Which is why I'm so perplexed as to why I can't understand the enneagram in terms of relation to myself. I don't normally talk about how much I've read because I don't want to seem overconfident or anything. I always think there's something more I can learn.

As for clarification on my answers (Also sorry I see the numbering got messed up)

For number 3 I think I relate to type 9 because my sense of self doesn't seem to be there. Like everything is fluid. When I was younger I was described as having a "vibe" that was like water. Others energy would run through me like a flowing river. Many people associated with me water and color blue because they said I'd just flow. didn't quite understand it, but now I kind of do more. I think it's because I don't have anything holding me to a static sense of else. Like there's no grounding force there. I'm sure now the river is a little murkey as I got older I had to deal with my own share of problems. I didn't really realize how good I have it then and would love to seek that peace I experienced again.

Anyways I got a little off topic, but yes I think it relates to 9 because of that undefined sense of self. I think my difference though is that what I've read 9s don't really concern themselves with their identity, but for me it's something that is present underneath my ambivalence. Itc why I have times like this where I really wish to understand myself and not being able to causes me a lot of stress. When others are involved I lose touch with myself inside. That's why I mentioned before that I feel these thoughts and the essence of myself or my soul when I'm alone or away from the expectations of others. It's almost like a need to perform. My real self is neither the one with close family and friends or the one in professional situations, it's another version that I almost never get to let out or let it become recognized.

For what you said about shame, it feels correct. I don't really have that connection to shame but again I'm sure it's present but obscured from my conscious mind. I can relate to shame the more I think about it as in upholding a certain image or perception of myself. I went through this a lot when I was younger, which made me not as vulnerable. Still I don't know if it was a key issue or mine compared to the fixations of other types.

From my answers it kind of seems like 1 is present quite a bit in my motivations. It helped me to go over my own words like this. I usually have a resistance to reading my own words and reflecting on what I've really said. It just causes me discomfort I'm not sure why. Things like journaling don't come easy to me because I almost hate to read my own words. I guess I'm actively moving away from that inner voice which is why I can't reach it normally.

I don't think I understand type 2 well. I know type 2 is usually described as giving to get...however I don't really relate to that part. Well partially. In romantic relationships I can partially do such hoping to receive affection back. I tend to very much lose myself in those as I take on my partners likes and dislikes, hobbies, patterns, etc. It's been hard for me to stay grounded in a close relationship with someone, which causes me to withdraw away from them even if it's something I desire.

But aside from that, I feel like type 2 isn't really described in a way that people will relate to because the image is always like "an overbearing mother" or a "servant." Also there's a focus on doing material things for others...which I feel like I don't embody that well. But I could be wrong!

EDIT: I had a realization recently that I think is important. When people try to get close to me I have an instinct to run away, close them out, and everything. Deep down I do want that connection but what terrifies me the most is people's expectations and once I become close to them I don't believe I'll live up to them. It's easier for me to not take things seriously or keep people at arms length than truly be vulnerable with them. I think this has been the case throughout my whole life.

I have people who come from and can help me, treat me with respect, and whole I genuinely like but instead I tend to run away and deal with people with issues or those who are unavailable. I don't know why.

To dig a little deeper. I think it comes from some experiences in childhood. When I was younger I used to express myself openly and freely but it seemed I was either punished, betrayed, or shut down when I expressed my feelings. I had a lot of love in my heart for people only for it to be crushed when I got close to people and they either had ulterior motives or no interest in me for who I am. I think after experiencing that over and over again I learned that it was wrong to be myself and express what I am and be close to people. It was much easier to just be what other people want.

EDIT 2: This is slightly my version of journaling since talking to someone else helps but I had another follow-up thought to this. Or well a memory. Being closed off emotionally/vulnerable I don't know if it's a natural thing for me. I tend to keep up walls while putting on a facade of openness to others. I had a good friend make me aware of that and basically coaxed me into opening up. It was a weird process but after she said she'd bring me out of my shell, I was suddenly more able to feel, express myself, and be more aligned with my purpose/identity. It helped me feel more fulfilled and free which was what I always sought. At the same time I was more vulnerable to pain so it eventually led to me putting those walls back up. Just thought it was important to mention.
 

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Happy new year !

To answer your question about reading...I've read and done a lot of studying! I've watched type panels, read books such as the wisdom of the enneagram, among others. Listened to podcasts, listened to sleeping at last songs. Basically everything. Which is why I'm so perplexed as to why I can't understand the enneagram in terms of relation to myself. I don't normally talk about how much I've read because I don't want to seem overconfident or anything. I always think there's something more I can learn.
Ok, just needed to have an idea. Riso / Hudson are good introductory authors. For the moment, I'm just focussing on 2 and 9. We can see 1 and the other types later.

For number 3 I think I relate to type 9 because my sense of self doesn't seem to be there. Like everything is fluid. When I was younger I was described as having a "vibe" that was like water. Others energy would run through me like a flowing river. Many people associated with me water and color blue because they said I'd just flow. didn't quite understand it, but now I kind of do more. I think it's because I don't have anything holding me to a static sense of else. Like there's no grounding force there. I'm sure now the river is a little murkey as I got older I had to deal with my own share of problems. I didn't really realize how good I have it then and would love to seek that peace I experienced again.
You're really describing type 9 here imo. In more standard terms, we could say you relate to "going with the flow" and a diffuse sense of self, right ? Maybe the word "merging" could be used ?

I don't think I understand type 2 well. I know type 2 is usually described as giving to get...however I don't really relate to that part. Well partially. In romantic relationships I can partially do such hoping to receive affection back. I tend to very much lose myself in those as I take on my partners likes and dislikes, hobbies, patterns, etc. It's been hard for me to stay grounded in a close relationship with someone, which causes me to withdraw away from them even if it's something I desire.
It's not easy to grasp type 2 until you meet one. I've known only two of them, they are rather rare. People we see as helpers, helpful, servable are usually not 2s. 2s are helpers but not only. 2s are as the theory predicts and it is not hidden.If we start to imagine an hidden 2 somewhere inside us, then we could all possibly be 2s. For real 2s, the fixation is pretty obvious and at the surface. Someone here (@KuroAlice) said something simple that is very much on target :

2 is based on pride that "I deserve to be loved because I'm doing this much".
For 2s, the idea "I deserve to be loved because I'm doing this much" is accompanied by inner movement of emotional neediness and a sense of being important to others, irreplaceable. A relationship with a partner can involve emotional neediness (longing, frustration, infatuation...) but for type 2, the same pattern happens about everybody and everything. It's not only about relationships. Giving to get for 2s is not a calculation at all. It is just the emotional movement of pride (explained above) that makes them feel things are owed to them. 2s are sincere, no way boastful, but not apologetic or self-deprecating either.

About point 5 (family), do you see there is an ambiguity between type 2 and type 9 ? In other words, what aspects of type 9 could create something like what you say in this point ?
 

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You're really describing type 9 here imo. In more standard terms, we could say you relate to "going with the flow" and a diffuse sense of self, right ? Maybe the word "merging" could be used ?
Yes! I'm on my computer again so hopefully less mobile autocorrect typos!

Sorry if I got a little abstract there. It's really easy for me to relate my experience to metaphors. I can process things that way more deeply than just normal spoken word. It's why a lot of enneagram knowledge or knowledge about personality, psychology, society in general I gain through interacting with others. It could be fictional or real experiences, they all seem to provide me with more knowledge about myself or others. I have a guilty pleasure where I connect with a character from media and it encourages me to be more like them, which usually leads me to bettering myself. It's how I got through a lot of my past years, I didn't picture myself and think of myself as my "self" but more so as who I embodied at that time.

Abstract like again here but normal people I feel have this static sense of self that I don't have. Like people know who they are, what they want. I notice it a lot even in some people who say they don't know their real "want" feels apparent. I feel its really present in America since people are kind of pushed into a career or life path early on since most of our lives revolve around that decision. At the same time, I've seen and felt how hard it can be when people truly don't know what they want. But in regards to me I could say its like merging energy? Like when I mentioned the energy flowing through of the other, it's like it comes through me and mixes with me, but if I had a (distinct personality) tether, it would stop it. I think it's why I kind of use that defense mechanism of shutting people out when they get really close or I become to vulnerable, because I can feel that process happening and it can be a little scary. So yeah, its definitely like a temporary merge but not me going to them, them coming to me and I allow it.

It's not easy to grasp type 2 until you meet one. I've known only two of them, they are rather rare. People we see as helpers, helpful, servable are usually not 2s. 2s are helpers but not only. 2s are as the theory predicts and it is not hidden.If we start to imagine an hidden 2 somewhere inside us, then we could all possibly be 2s. For real 2s, the fixation is pretty obvious and at the surface. Someone here (@KuroAlice) said something simple that is very much on target :

For 2s, the idea "I deserve to be loved because I'm doing this much" is accompanied by inner movement of emotional neediness and a sense of being important to others, irreplaceable. A relationship with a partner can involve emotional neediness (longing, frustration, infatuation...) but for type 2, the same pattern happens about everybody and everything. It's not only about relationships. Giving to get for 2s is not a calculation at all. It is just the emotional movement of pride (explained above) that makes them feel things are owed to them. 2s are sincere, no way boastful, but not apologetic or self-deprecating either.
Thanks I will take a look more at KuroAlice's words!

That point you touched on here...is why I have so much issues with typing. About how if we start to imagine a hidden 2 inside we could all be 2s. Because that's how I feel with almost all the types. I could in my mind see a way where I could be any of them. So once I settle on a type for the time being, it is incredibly hard for me to say "OK I'VE GOT MY TYPE" because there's no click, no end, no "oh yeah that's the one." People describe this feeling like when they know they've met the right person for marriage or when they identify their true passion, or when they know exactly where they'd like to live. I don't really get that, it's more of an ambiguity for me. And its easy to hope another person could just wave a wand and then everything would be ok, but its not fulfilling if I don't at least make an effort myself. I know growth for me in the past was moving away from the extremes of "I have to do everything myself" or "I need someone to save me." Though I do admit I fall back into the former from time to time.

Thank you for the clarification though. I think I see this tendency the most in romantic relationships (I know it's not just that for type 2), but I don't think I see this pattern everywhere. At my work, I do what's expected of me and try to do the best I can with my resources I have. I'm mostly concerned in most pursuits about helping others and making the world better. I prefer to help directly and get my hands dirty, but I'm not opposed to background work if I see a purpose in it. It's a need my current work isn't fulfilling because its menial and I'm mostly being ordered around and told to follow insignificant details, so it causes me to not be as motivated and makes me sometimes not want to complete my tasks properly.

As a leader, I was more concerned about meeting the needs of the community. There was no focus of my own goals, I just adapted to what the community wanted or what seemed "right" for the situation. I did do things that were about give and take, but I feel it was more of a business need than a need for love like 2. But again I worry it wasn't really the case sometimes and I was just blind to my motivations. As if I'm saying and doing things to cover up my inner motivations of neediness or love. Although it comes out in romantic relationships mostly, it may still be there, because in those relations is where I'm usually the most vulnerable. As my friend described me as a leader, I did a lot for people, interacted with them directly, and cared for them. But I seemed to be removed from the group as a "person." More like an overseer watching over everything, than an actual participant.


About point 5 (family), do you see there is an ambiguity between type 2 and type 9 ? In other words, what aspects of type 9 could create something like what you say in this point ?
I don't know, I've kinda typed and talked myself up in confusion between 2 and 9 haha. But I think it could come from that merging with family needs and desires.

I'm the oldest child in the family, and much of their hopes, goals, dreams have been channeled through me. The others are either mixed up in their own life struggles, left to their own devices, or neglected. However this was positive when I was a child because I received a lot of care and attention, but as I become older I feel myself carrying the issues of the whole family. It's like the river analogy again, but this time they're pouring everything into me and its threatening to make me burst. I feel like if I fail or if I don't live up to what they want, everything will fall apart. This has been really hard because I feel as if my life is not my own and that's kind of how I felt since I was young. Which is why I always had a desire to feel more "free." I've given up a lot of what I wanted for my family and for others. My likes were too expensive? I let them fall to the wayside. Moving out on my own was devastating for them, so I've stayed close. A lot of relationships were done mostly in private and I felt I didn't deserve them because I know my family wouldn't accept.

I know that this could be partially 2, because 2s can work really hard and overexert themselves for the sake of others, but I think a 2 might be more in touch with their needs (just maybe ignore them in favor of others.) As for nines, I think the same can happen through merging and eventually they can lose access to their needs. hat's the part that trips me up, since I feel like the inner self I had as a younger child but lost touch with slowly. Like it was always ambiguous but it became more ambiguous as I chose other people over myself over and over. But at the same time, I can usually have an idea of what I need and I'm not getting when it's really being trampled over. So yeah, I'm kind of confused!
 

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Thanks for your answer.

Sorry if I got a little abstract there. It's really easy for me to relate my experience to metaphors. I can process things that way more deeply than just normal spoken word. It's why a lot of enneagram knowledge or knowledge about personality, psychology, society in general I gain through interacting with others.
No problem at all, it's great thing to do ! I don't even understand why you say sorry :). But I can't follow you too far this way because my own mind does not work like this. In MBTI terms, you seem to be introverted feeler, adventuring in the unknown of your mysterious self. I am introverted thinker, I administrate, clarify and classify impersonal truths.... . Hum said this way... I'd rather be like you...

On a personal note, there are times in my life when I partly mutate into a feeler, experience bits of what you say. My methods for finding a type are however based on impersonal thinking (hence the word "standard terms"). There's no reason to consider one way is better than the other, but the bridge between introverted thinking and introverted feeling is not easy.

I know that this could be partially 2, because 2s can work really hard and overexert themselves for the sake of others, but I think a 2 might be more in touch with their needs (just maybe ignore them in favor of others.) As for nines, I think the same can happen through merging and eventually they can lose access to their needs. hat's the part that trips me up, since I feel like the inner self I had as a younger child but lost touch with slowly. Like it was always ambiguous but it became more ambiguous as I chose other people over myself over and over. But at the same time, I can usually have an idea of what I need and I'm not getting when it's really being trampled over. So yeah, I'm kind of confused!
Type 2 is shame based. The first move when you are a 2 is to overcome shame by building personal worth, being useful, nurturing (in a way that is meant to be irreplaceable, NOT modestly) to someone... flattering your own superego in one way or another. To do this, you need no-one's approval (approval seekers are 3s, 6s and 9s). Your good actions and good intensions are enough to flatter yourself. In doing so, your needs do not disappear at all from consciousness, they become stronger as your sense of personal worth increases, and your emotions claim for a reward beyond anything reasonable and a pay back. 2s are not self-sacrificing persons at all.

9 is more about self-forgetting.

I was thinking to move to one of the other ambiguous point. Are you ok with it ?
 

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Thanks for your answer.



No problem at all, it's great thing to do ! I don't even understand why you say sorry :). But I can't follow you too far this way because my own mind does not work like this. In MBTI terms, you seem to be introverted feeler, adventuring in the unknown of your mysterious self. I am introverted thinker, I administrate, clarify and classify impersonal truths.... . Hum said this way... I'd rather be like you...

On a personal note, there are times in my life when I partly mutate into a feeler, experience bits of what you say. My methods for finding a type are however based on impersonal thinking (hence the word "standard terms"). There's no reason to consider one way is better than the other, but the bridge between introverted thinking and introverted feeling is not easy.



Type 2 is shame based. The first move when you are a 2 is to overcome shame by building personal worth, being useful, nurturing (in a way that is meant to be irreplaceable, NOT modestly) to someone... flattering your own superego in one way or another. To do this, you need no-one's approval (approval seekers are 3s, 6s and 9s). Your good actions and good intensions are enough to flatter yourself. In doing so, your needs do not disappear at all from consciousness, they become stronger as your sense of personal worth increases, and your emotions claim for a reward beyond anything reasonable and a pay back. 2s are not self-sacrificing persons at all.

9 is more about self-forgetting.

I was thinking to move to one of the other ambiguous point. Are you ok with it ?
It's ok! Like with enneagram I have no clue about my Mbti type either and have typed all over the place. But I usually score high on introverted feeling. Perhaps I'm an introvert pretending to not be which is causing so much stress! A lot of opinions of them here is always "shut-ins" so it wasn't really flattering to be known as one.

Your perspective isn't bad at all! Similarly, I wish I was more like you. I feel if I had the ability to analyze impersonally life would be a lot easier for me. Having to rely on my relations to other things makes things hard and is part of the reasons why I tend to end up in ruts. One of my friends that could help me out of a lot of these was an introverted thinker.

So this conversation has been really helpful in clarifying some things. It could explain why I've been so bothered lately because I haven't been living a life that is authentic to me. Maybe that's why I do not feel fulfilled.

In retrospect with the way you describe 2 I am thinking I am not one at all haha. I also think it's normal for anyone to feel resentment after self sacrificing themselves for long. If anything it's the reverse process where my needs diminish the more I nurture others. Like to get back to myself I have to physically and emotionally remove myself from certain situations. But then I feel guilty. Else I'll keep giving and giving. Or in the past my body wouldn't be able to handle it and I'd collapse!

But yes, I don't mind continuing on!

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Your perspective isn't bad at all! Similarly, I wish I was more like you. I feel if I had the ability to analyze impersonally life would be a lot easier for me. Having to rely on my relations to other things makes things hard and is part of the reasons why I tend to end up in ruts. One of my friends that could help me out of a lot of these was an introverted thinker.
There's no worry at all. It's just a warning to say, if you go far into introverted feeling mode, don't be surprised to see me stick to the introverted thinking mode. It'll never be a criticism from me, more an inner limit.

But yes, I don't mind continuing on!
I thought maybe point 7 would be the easiest for the moment.

7 - Most importantly, I want to try to keep my peace of mind and common sense, not behaving erratically or doing things that will make others uncomfortable. I thought maybe 9,
Basically yes, wanting peace of mind is type 9. "Not behaving erratically or doing things that will make others uncomfortable." is also type 9 with shades of type 1. 9 is "not wanting to rock the boat", with a glimpse of 1ish self-control and inner critic.

but I'm thinking this might be more of phobic 6. Peace of mind is something I'd like to have, but unlike a 9 I feel like its very rare for me to have it. If anything I feel like I'm running away from my thoughts and emotions all the time. Instead of escaping darkness and moving into light, I'm trying to escape the light shining on the darkness of my soul. It's really hard to sit with myself, with no external motivators, distractions, or responsibilities to pull me away from my feelings. I feel really out of touch with my feelings, not that I don't know necessarily what they are, but that I'm afraid they will overwhelm me. So they tend to stay stuck in stasis, seeping through only when I have downtime. It's in these downtimes (usually nights) that I can really understand who I am. The more I think about it, its not necessarily about making other people uncomfortable but it makes me uncomfortable. I think I relate this a little to 7 (running away from the bad and the need to introspect which leads to anxiety.)
This a meaningful objection. Aren't 9s supposed to already have peace of mind ? We are at the fundamental place of 9-6 ambiguity. You're not the only one struggling to clarify it, there are many people on this board who get into this 9-6 question. One of the reasons is that the 9 -> 6 arrow truly exists. For some types (2,5,4...), it is mostly a matter of ambiguity of words. The 9 -> 6 question is more a matter of "where to put the boundary between a core 9 seeing his 6 pushing him towards action and "danger", and a core 6". This is made even more difficult by the similitudes between a 1 wing and type 6. This also raises key questions about type 9. Since 9s are wanting peace of mind, it must be that they don't have it. Why ? This asks key questions about the depth of type 9, that are not easy to answer.

I need to go, I'll continue later.
 

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There's no worry at all. It's just a warning to say, if you go far into introverted feeling mode, don't be surprised to see me stick to the introverted thinking mode. It'll never be a criticism from me, more an inner limit.
It's okay about not finishing! It took me longer to respond here because my current life situation. That's totally okay! I accept you for who you are. : )

Basically yes, wanting peace of mind is type 9. "Not behaving erratically or doing things that will make others uncomfortable." is also type 9 with shades of type 1. 9 is "not wanting to rock the boat", with a glimpse of 1ish self-control and inner critic.

This a meaningful objection. Aren't 9s supposed to already have peace of mind ? We are at the fundamental place of 9-6 ambiguity. You're not the only one struggling to clarify it, there are many people on this board who get into this 9-6 question. One of the reasons is that the 9 -> 6 arrow truly exists. For some types (2,5,4...), it is mostly a matter of ambiguity of words. The 9 -> 6 question is more a matter of "where to put the boundary between a core 9 seeing his 6 pushing him towards action and "danger", and a core 6". This is made even more difficult by the similitudes between a 1 wing and type 6. This also raises key questions about type 9. Since 9s are wanting peace of mind, it must be that they don't have it. Why ? This asks key questions about the depth of type 9, that are not easy to answer.

I need to go, I'll continue later.
This is hard for me, and its related to struggle I'm going through atm. I've been having a pretty hard time in my current workplace due to not being aligned with the job (I can do it, I just don't really enjoy it or feel fulfilled by it) and then by my supervisor (nit picking, wanting everything extremely detailed, focused on parts of the work that aren't important.) Its really disrupted my peace of mind and well being. Thinking of that, I've been trying to figure out how I am when there's no external stressor, because I feel to figure out the distinction is important. Most times I feel disrupted it is something that occurs externally. When I was younger, I used to not like being too mixed up with others (relationships, dynamic friendships, large groups) because it would cause problems. I was always steady like a rock (at least outside perspective) but these factors would always contribute to my stress. People used to always comment on how I seemed always together and never falling apart or emotionally unstable. Inside though I tended to feel a little different, but I think it was never expressed.

When I was alone without having to worry about anyone else or anything else, I was completely content. It was like a burden off my shoulders. I wonder if this is different from a type 6 though, because I feel like a type 6 might still tend to feel "fear" even if there's nothing provoking it. The time I feel most like myself is alone, and not just alone at any point, but alone where the world does not need anything from me. Such as late nights when everything is quiet and everyone is asleep. There's nothing to prove, nothing to take care of, no one to worry about, nothing to be done. So I feel totally like myself. Likewise, when I'm really immersed in something or feel I am around someone else or an environment that promotes this, I also have this feeling.

For 9s wanting peace of mind, I feel like the peace of mind 9's have by default isn't necessarily true peace. Like really being "at peace" would mean carrying that feeling regardless of what else is going on. I could be wrong, but I believe 9s have a peace only because of the tendency to withdraw from external stressors physically/emotionally/mentally or bury internal stressors in the subconscious. So there's a feeling of peace that feels good, but its not the same as someone who is "at peace" with themselves totally, feeling that calm throughout life. And this experience isn't the same as just rejecting emotions. Being truly at peace would mean that someone could still "feel." However, I believe its more like being truly steady, having the positive outlook that things will work out, so not being too caught up in everything that happens instinctually. I feel like this growth would make a lot of sense for a 9 given that it's a withdrawn type + a positive oriented type.

And because this sense of "peace" is generated internally, I can see easily how 6's would integrate into it. Since they rely heavily on external reassurance, while neglecting their inner gifts.

Sorry I kind of rambled on there. But that's my outlook on 6 and 9. Now its easy for me to talk about it in general, but applying it to myself is tricky haha. I still don't really know.

Someone on topic, I've been reading the enneagram book "Are You My Type?" and I relate heavily to SP 1 as described in the book. I really like this book, a lot of the other authors are extremely abstract and its hard for me to follow them. But this one uses pictures and examples, which is great for helping me really process it. I'm going through the types in order.
 

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Sorry for not replying sooner, I was on the road.

It's okay about not finishing! It took me longer to respond here because my current life situation. That's totally okay! I accept you for who you are. : )
So do I ! You really seem to have the "introverted feeler" magic... :p Thanks for that.

Sorry for your current problems at work. Maybe your supervisor needs to be set a few limits. I sympathise, good luck with that but I may be the worst person on earth to help with these sort of things. (I have the same gifts at diplomacy as a panzer division).

Following on type 6, 9 and 1. The key difficulty when considering type 6 as a possibility is that fear, anxiety, worrying... are almost universal. We all experience fear as an anxiety about the future, sometimes just terror because of a sudden stimulus (a car passing fast nearby), or even a fear of nothing precise coming from nowhere. We all need to work on it.

On the other hand, you could say resentment is universal as well but as far as I've seen, only people connected to type 1 seem to experience resentment (grudges, interiorised anger, sense of being treated unfairly...). That's why spotting elements of type 1 is usually more relevant than spotting elements of type 6.

Worrying and fear are fundamental to type 6, but it has a certain logic and is heavily tied to the practical ego. I'll try to explain it soon, I need to collect my thoughts about it.

For 9s wanting peace of mind, I feel like the peace of mind 9's have by default isn't necessarily true peace. Like really being "at peace" would mean carrying that feeling regardless of what else is going on. I could be wrong, but I believe 9s have a peace only because of the tendency to withdraw from external stressors physically/emotionally/mentally or bury internal stressors in the subconscious. So there's a feeling of peace that feels good, but its not the same as someone who is "at peace" with themselves totally, feeling that calm throughout life. And this experience isn't the same as just rejecting emotions. Being truly at peace would mean that someone could still "feel." However, I believe its more like being truly steady, having the positive outlook that things will work out, so not being too caught up in everything that happens instinctually. I feel like this growth would make a lot of sense for a 9 given that it's a withdrawn type + a positive oriented type.
Yes, this global picture of type 9 is overall correct. At the surface, you see 9s putting problems under the rug and denying when they feel something is wrong, defaulting to "that's ok, it makes sense...". This can lead to being a numb daydreamer only seeing the positive around, or on the other hand, the passive aggressive 9 : stubborn whose passive resistance is filled with anger and arrogance. Usually, the picture is in-between.

But this picture is a bit of a caricature. Many elements about type 9 should warn something is missing to this picture. 9s are rather self-aware, in a way that is similar to 4s and 5s, only partly obscured by the elements above. At the same level of development, you could say 9s have an inner life that is almost as complex, rich and troubling as 4s and 5s, especially if introverted. Many 9s are cyclotomic cyclothymic, especially when the social instinct is the last in the stack.

And because this sense of "peace" is generated internally, I can see easily how 6's would integrate into it. Since they rely heavily on external reassurance, while neglecting their inner gifts.
Humm... 6s do not neglect their inner gifts imo (I mean not more than anybody). 9s do. Self-denial is type 9. Sorry, I really would need to write a bit more about type 6 to clarify it... Many authors seem to describe type 6 as a person missing self-assurance. This is not what type 6 really is about.

Someone on topic, I've been reading the enneagram book "Are You My Type?" and I relate heavily to SP 1 as described in the book.
SP 1 makes a lot of sense. The official name of SP 1 is "anxiety". This lead is worth looking at imo. If you can see what is underlying responsibility, superego, inner-critic... you may soon have a clearer picture of type 1 and maybe reconsider what is supposed to belong to type 6.
 

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Sorry for not replying sooner, I was on the road.

So do I ! You really seem to have the "introverted feeler" magic... :p Thanks for that.

Sorry for your current problems at work. Maybe your supervisor needs to be set a few limits. I sympathise, good luck with that but I may be the worst person on earth to help with these sort of things. (I have the same gifts at diplomacy as a panzer division).
That's okay! You don't have to help or anything, I appreciate you taking the time to keep engaging with me on this! It's been a couple of days now and it's really nice to have someone to share thoughts with. Really I'm not expecting much in terms of help but I wanted to explain because I think its relevant to my current situation. I'm only inclined to look inward when I encounter a problem in life.

Following on type 6, 9 and 1. The key difficulty when considering type 6 as a possibility is that fear, anxiety, worrying... are almost universal. We all experience fear as an anxiety about the future, sometimes just terror because of a sudden stimulus (a car passing fast nearby), or even a fear of nothing precise coming from nowhere. We all need to work on it.

On the other hand, you could say resentment is universal as well but as far as I've seen, only people connected to type 1 seem to experience resentment (grudges, interiorised anger, sense of being treated unfairly...). That's why spotting elements of type 1 is usually more relevant than spotting elements of type 6.

Worrying and fear are fundamental to type 6, but it has a certain logic and is heavily tied to the practical ego. I'll try to explain it soon, I need to collect my thoughts about it.
That's true! I think its hard to determine as well when certain conditions can lead to overemphasizing of certain traits. For instance, I don't think I'm naturally an anxious person. Its honestly hard for me to talk about myself (like my traits) without a direct comparison to those I know, relate to, or don't identify with. I had a close friend who was very anxious, like about things that people shouldn't normally be anxious about. My anxiety/fear isn't unprovoked, it usually originates from situations that are stressful or dangerous, sometimes new. Worrying about the health of my family, how I will survive/not disappoint them, concerns about my life path are things that provoke anxiety in me. My friend in comparison would worry about small things with easy solutions. Like talking to someone and potentially upsetting them or how to manage their funds. To me it seemed to be more "out there" and "obsessive." I feel like that's the difference between normal feelings and a core fear.

I do experience resentment though. Perhaps not really grudges, but I definitely am sensitive to fair treatment of myself and others. More of others, I can kind of ignore it of myself for a period of time, but its hard for me to leave it alone when it comes to others.

Yes, this global picture of type 9 is overall correct. At the surface, you see 9s putting problems under the rug and denying when they feel something is wrong, defaulting to "that's ok, it makes sense...". This can lead to being a numb daydreamer only seeing the positive around, or on the other hand, the passive aggressive 9 : stubborn whose passive resistance is filled with anger and arrogance. Usually, the picture is in-between.

But this picture is a bit of a caricature. Many elements about type 9 should warn something is missing to this picture. 9s are rather self-aware, in a way that is similar to 4s and 5s, only partly obscured by the elements above. At the same level of development, you could say 9s have an inner life that is almost as complex, rich and troubling as 4s and 5s, especially if introverted. Many 9s are cyclotomic, especially when the social instinct is the last in the stack.

Humm... 6s do not neglect their inner gifts imo (I mean not more than anybody). 9s do. Self-denial is type 9. Sorry, I really would need to write a bit more about type 6 to clarify it... Many authors seem to describe type 6 as a person missing self-assurance. This is not what type 6 really is about.
Thanks for correcting me on that! I fear I'm not describing the image I see of nine well, but I also think its partially motivated by the knowledge I've seen about them. I also thought something is missing as many of these type descriptions describe them from an outside-in view, but delve little into ways the types stray from these images. I feel this way about a lot of type descriptions. Many people would link me to the enneagram institute descriptions when I questioned my type, but they didn't feel deep enough for me. The comparisons as well left me more confused than resolved. What do you mean by cyclotomic? I looked it up, but I don't really understand.

Yeah, I've seen so much saying 6s don't really rely on themselves but outside factors. That growth is about finding their inner guidance. 6 is confusing because I feel like every depiction of them is different. The main factor they highlight is the fear/anxiety and trouble-shooting nature, but it makes sixes to just be like worrywarts. I see that can be attributed to a 1 as well though. I think a lot of the enneagram material has been written with certain individuals in mind (or images) that it makes it hard to identify with them. If you don't really fit the image most people will go around and around with their type. Also some things have been lost in translation as they are passed down and simplified. At least this is why its very hard for me to identify with anything for long.

SP 1 makes a lot of sense. The official name of SP 1 is "anxiety". This lead is worth looking at imo. If you can see what is underlying responsibility, superego, inner-critic... you may soon have a clearer picture of type 1 and maybe reconsider what is supposed to belong to type 6.
Well after reading more on it, 6 seems more like the type to be rule enforce (or breakers) or external rules and 1s seem more oriented to inner guidance.

In regard to me I'm still not 100% sure if I could be a 1 or even a self-pres type. To be really raw and honest with you, I've typed all over the place before. When I first got into enneagram I typed as a 3 and stayed with that for a while. But it wasn't really that deep I feel more so because I was seeking what I thought was "success" at the time. Then later I typed as a 4 and felt seen, but I feel like I don't have outlook or self-knowledge to be one. I later decided on 2 (I went all around the shame triad) because I was always drawn to helping people. But I wasn't really outwardly it or seeking my needs. Helping felt more like a burden that I HAD to do, not wanted to do. Although I do like helping others, it feels like something in my mind is telling me I must do this. I must be good and help others. I don't know.

Afterwards I typed all around, I think someone has suggested my type as being a little bit of everything at this point (except 8.) Of course after someone tells me I feel like they're right and sometimes I even adapt myself to that type, but I realize its not fulfilling for me. Nor does it last because I'm adapting to what they believe and not what I believe. Sometimes I wonder why its even so important for me to know it at all, but I guess its because I think it'll fulfill me. I know some people who study typology for fun or to type others, but for me its a serious deal. I'm studying it because I believe it'll help me fix myself, because I feel like there's something wrong with me. I don't feel up to par most of the time. But at the same time, I can never decide or stay with anything long? It's part of that which makes me wonder how I could be like a 1. My reading talks about them being detail oriented, responsible, conscientious, but I feel like I'm not really those things. I've always struggled with details, repetition, consistency. I do always stay true to what I believe though. I just don't know haha.

Anyways, long splurge outside, I'll do some more reading about it. The more I learn about type 6, the less I feel I'm that type however. I just wish something would help me cut through this foggy version of myself I see inside. Its like I grasp puzzle pieces of my soul, my core essence, but I can't fit them together to make a sensible image. There's too many pieces and I don't know what picture I'm even trying to put together, but at some point it feels like the puzzle broke.
 

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It's long to find one's type. Usually, it is a matter of years.

Many people would link me to the enneagram institute descriptions when I questioned my type, but they didn't feel deep enough for me.
They are indeed not deep enough. R & H are only good as an introduction. They have very good moments and their main quality is structuring things for a quick overview. But they are not enough to go further. Better authors are easy to read : H. Palmer and Eli Jaxon Bear.

What do you mean by cyclotomic? I looked it up, but I don't really understand.
Bad spell corrector on my computer :). I meant cyclothymic. Naranjo insists on the connection between cyclothymia and type 9 and I think he's right.

Yeah, I've seen so much saying 6s don't really rely on themselves but outside factors. That growth is about finding their inner guidance. 6 is confusing because I feel like every depiction of them is different. The main factor they highlight is the fear/anxiety and trouble-shooting nature, but it makes sixes to just be like worrywarts. I see that can be attributed to a 1 as well though.
Yep. Disconnection from "Inner guidance" is a nice attempt by R & H to describe type 6, it's rather good. Ichazo says "cannot interiorize action" which is very close. 6s are action people who do not interiorize action, and this leads to a kind of panic they are so used to, they don't even consider it as a problem. A few things mentioned by most authors about type 6 are important:
  • imagining worst case scenarios
  • asking for external support and guidance (usually for action)
  • very tied to authority, always vacillating between compliance and mutiny
Ichazo says the following. I bolded what I think is the most fundamental. Ichazo would need to be rephrased to adapt to a broader range of people but he has the fundamental ideas :

Ego-Cowardice, as the name suggests, is defined by fear. As the centre of the Doing Group (=head center), it wants to get things done, but it is too afraid that it lacks the ability to do things. This fixation sees danger in all things, even where there is no explicit danger. He therefore seeks safety from this danger, usually in the form of a powerful leader or an ideology. Security is a trap for this fixation. Even when Ego-Cowardice finds the security it has been looking for, it will continue to adventure past this secure spot, seeing potential threats to their safety. [...] The over-adventurer starts by being a secure man. In reality he would like to have the security of the bourgeoisie, a kind of practical security in the sense that his feet are on the ground. But fundamentally he is a man of action. Though he denies to himself and to others his insatiability for adventure, and insists that he is just going to speak of his fascination with security, he will put himself into the first adventure he finds at hand.

If you know a 6, or at least a 7w6 (more common than core 6), you may see these patterns and understand there is no phobic 6 on the one hand and counterphobic 6 on the other hand. Phobic and counterphobic work hand in hand.

I believe your type is 9w1 (sp). 1w9 sounds possible but I see too many 9 markers for a core 1. I'll try to explain.

Of course after someone tells me I feel like they're right and sometimes I even adapt myself to that type, but I realize its not fulfilling for me. Nor does it last because I'm adapting to what they believe and not what I believe. Sometimes I wonder why its even so important for me to know it at all, but I guess its because I think it'll fulfill me.
This inner functioning you just described (when looking for your type) IS a pattern of type 9. Maybe see it as something close to "merging" : looking for yourself out-there, through identification to an idea, an accommodation to someone's perspective... I'm quoting Ichazo again :

As the centre of the Being Group (=gut center), this fixation (9) is constantly looking for how to "be," finding outside sources of being and not being itself. The trap of this fixation is seeking, referring to how it constantly seeks outside for what can only be found inside.

I just wish something would help me cut through this foggy version of myself I see inside. Its like I grasp puzzle pieces of my soul, my core essence, but I can't fit them together to make a sensible image. There's too many pieces and I don't know what picture I'm even trying to put together, but at some point it feels like the puzzle broke.
Two persons stand in a good old British fog :
_ What do you see ?
_ Nothing, the fog is too thick, no house, no tree
_ Really, I see something very visible, don't you ?
_ No
_ The fog !

Type 9 is the fog. Working on type 9 is going through the fog. The reason why you see the fog during an introspective move, going towards the self, is because you are an introverted feeler and introverted feelers often have this "going towards the self" over-analytic thing. This sounds a bit like type 4 but it is unrelated.
 

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Sorry it took me so long to respond to this one. I definitely relate though to the length. I think I started my journey into this when I was 21. Now I'm 28 so it's been 7 years and I'm still undecided. Really I didn't even start considering certain types like 9 until recently.

They are indeed not deep enough. R & H are only good as an introduction. They have very good moments and their main quality is structuring things for a quick overview. But they are not enough to go further. Better authors are easy to read : H. Palmer and Eli Jaxon Bear.

Bad spell corrector on my computer :). I meant cyclothymic. Naranjo insists on the connection between cyclothymia and type 9 and I think he's right.
It's okay! I will take a look into the others. I see that cyclothymia is similar to bipolar. Lows and highs. I honestly relate to that as it feels like a lot of the time I'm either doing really well or doing really bad, but most people wouldn't really notice on the surface. When I was in school, I was described all the time as having a "poker face." I would be in class and absolutely hate certain teachers and have strong feelings and they were never really expressed. I used to be such a good student because I was always cooperative and receptive to teachers, but it was really on the surface. Same with certain positive feelings. I could actually have a depth of love for someone and never express it to them. I missed out on a lot of potential relationships because of this/

Yep. Disconnection from "Inner guidance" is a nice attempt by R & H to describe type 6, it's rather good. Ichazo says "cannot interiorize action" which is very close. 6s are action people who do not interiorize action, and this leads to a kind of panic they are so used to, they don't even consider it as a problem. A few things mentioned by most authors about type 6 are important:
  • imagining worst case scenarios
  • asking for external support and guidance (usually for action)
  • very tied to authority, always vacillating between compliance and mutiny
This sounds a lot like my friend. He usually would rely on external support and repeatedly ask about things he was doing wrong/right, but when it came to acting on the help he wouldn't ever apply it to himself. It really frustrated a lot of people. Also jump to crazy conclusions about others hating him or similar. But the reason it actually happened was because of his actions, not people hating him by default. As loyal as he was, he tended to betray those he was loyal to. Oh he would also always go towards certain groups. For instance, he had complete loyalty to our friend group and then later went completely against our friend group and joined up with some individuals who were causing problems. Then later he went against that group and made everyone mad lol. Even now, he'd meet a newer group of friends and turn to them for EVERYTHING, while ignoring the people who he originally listened to. I can't tell anyones type for sure but I always thought he was a 6 because it was such a reoccurring pattern and there was no getting through to him.

I relate a little though not necessarily to worst case scenarios, but asking for external guidance. But the difference with this and maybe action oriented probing is that I mostly wanted to be reflected to. Like I ask because I genuinely don't know and hope someone can provide me with insight, or reflect back things about me from an outside perspective. It helps me understand myself.

I also don't really feel like respecting authority. It sounds awful, but I don't like when people bend to someone because of their status, prestige, money, etc. I usually don't consider myself as being lesser than others either but equal. I know how to act around authority figures but authority isn't something that crosses my mind. I just know I don't like being controlled or forced to do something, and will deliberately do the opposite when someone tries. But this is all internal, on the surface I will be like : ).

I hope some of the insight I provide too can help you as well. Like with whatever type I am, I hope that it can help in providing a greater understanding of type patterns compared to what's stereotyped or standardized. I saw some of your other posts examining this.

Ichazo says the following. I bolded what I think is the most fundamental. Ichazo would need to be rephrased to adapt to a broader range of people but he has the fundamental ideas :

Ego-Cowardice, as the name suggests, is defined by fear. As the centre of the Doing Group (=head center), it wants to get things done, but it is too afraid that it lacks the ability to do things. This fixation sees danger in all things, even where there is no explicit danger. He therefore seeks safety from this danger, usually in the form of a powerful leader or an ideology. Security is a trap for this fixation. Even when Ego-Cowardice finds the security it has been looking for, it will continue to adventure past this secure spot, seeing potential threats to their safety. [...] The over-adventurer starts by being a secure man. In reality he would like to have the security of the bourgeoisie, a kind of practical security in the sense that his feet are on the ground. But fundamentally he is a man of action. Though he denies to himself and to others his insatiability for adventure, and insists that he is just going to speak of his fascination with security, he will put himself into the first adventure he finds at hand.

If you know a 6, or at least a 7w6 (more common than core 6), you may see these patterns and understand there is no phobic 6 on the one hand and counterphobic 6 on the other hand. Phobic and counterphobic work hand in hand.

I believe your type is 9w1 (sp). 1w9 sounds possible but I see too many 9 markers for a core 1. I'll try to explain.

This inner functioning you just described (when looking for your type) IS a pattern of type 9. Maybe see it as something close to "merging" : looking for yourself out-there, through identification to an idea, an accommodation to someone's perspective... I'm quoting Ichazo again :

As the centre of the Being Group (=gut center), this fixation (9) is constantly looking for how to "be," finding outside sources of being and not being itself. The trap of this fixation is seeking, referring to how it constantly seeks outside for what can only be found inside.

Two persons stand in a good old British fog :
_ What do you see ?
_ Nothing, the fog is too thick, no house, no tree
_ Really, I see something very visible, don't you ?
_ No
_ The fog !

Type 9 is the fog. Working on type 9 is going through the fog. The reason why you see the fog during an introspective move, going towards the self, is because you are an introverted feeler and introverted feelers often have this "going towards the self" over-analytic thing. This sounds a bit like type 4 but it is unrelated.
Oh boy this is a lot of new info. I always saw 9s being described (well gut types in general) as the "doing triad." Being makes a lot more sense though! Seeking outside what can only be found inside makes a lot of sense too. I forget if I mentioned it before but relating to others was big for me. Well especially fictional characters, since I connect to fiction so deeply. As a teenager I identified with role models, that were usually characters. And so instead of just y'know admire from a far I became them! This sounds really dumb but I wanted to be honest/upfront about it. I'd act through what they were like, what they thought, and became like them. It became a process so in tune with myself that it kept me from really consulting or developing internally. Because how could I if I always pictured myself in their shoes or from their personality. At the same time though, this got me through a lot of troubles where I needed to be brave, strong, grounded, assertive, etc. It was like putting on a suit of armor that protected a mushy inside.

At the same time 9 is hard to accept, mostly because I don't want to be one. Again just being upfront. They're always described as the most common type and its a little hurting to think that I might be a 9. Especially SP 9 which is probably my least favorite. That's part of my emotions talking but the other part is glad for this.

Can I ask a few questions for clarification on it though? How did you decide on 9 and rule out 6? When I originally talked to 9s about enneagram (about a year ago) they all IMMEDIATELY concluded I was not one. Which I thought was strange and pushed me towards 6 because I experienced things like anxiety. Also, because I wasn't a full on pushover. Many of them spent life running away from their problems to chase away conflict like the plague. For me though, I had to do things to become strong/resilient in the face of adversity. So it was hard for me to relate.

In addition why SP? Just curious, because I've always been surprise surprise undecided on my instinct. I always thought I'd be an SP last because I'm awful at self care and consistent routines. Like the time I described before when I was in my best health was because of my connection/desire to be that way for someone else. Throughout my whole life even though I do things like bathe regularly and the like, I've never been great at caring for myself.

Sorry for all of that right away and hopefully it doesn't sound rude! I agree with your conclusion, I just hoped that explanation would help me process it a bit more deeply. I really don't want to just accept the answer this time just because but I really want to understand why and feel it deeply to my core.
 

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Hey @skyboy since you're one of the types they're considering, can't you use yourself as a reference? Depending on what their background is, they may have mostly seen just the types in either with a low level of health or just the negative sides and that would make it hard to relate to any of the types.

And before I self-reference, do you see me as correctly typed?
 

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Can I ask a few questions for clarification on it though? How did you decide on 9 and rule out 6?
Short answer : because I know (at least) one 6w7 and many 7w6s. You're no way like them. I know many 9w1s, you're very much like some of them.

Sorry for all of that right away and hopefully it doesn't sound rude! I agree with your conclusion, I just hoped that explanation would help me process it a bit more deeply. I really don't want to just accept the answer this time just because but I really want to understand why and feel it deeply to my core.
It does not sound rude at all ! Answering this question on a deeper level will take some time, I need to think of it. Some typing "tricks" are not deep. It's all the general background thoughts behind it, not for your case but about the types in general... but they are hard to explain.

I just know your type after reading a few lines. Each type emits subliminal messages. Type 9 : apologetic, unassuming, I'm not sure, I can't decide, I don't care, fatalism, tolerance... Type 1 : must, radical, rigid, uncompromising, dignifying. Type 6 : yes but, I don't believe you, the definition of X is "...." The difficulty is not so much to perceive these messages but to establish the link between these messages (with a precise shape) and the corresponding type. The observation can be done only very slowly by typing many people in real life and considering several possibilities.

But this is unimportant. What is important is to understand the core of each type. That's the hardest thing to write. Gimme some time.

Just answering the SP question (that is quite secondary):

In addition why SP? Just curious, because I've always been surprise surprise undecided on my instinct. I always thought I'd be an SP last because I'm awful at self care and consistent routines.
I would not bet my life on SP but it sounds like the main guess. You sound rather self-contained, delimited in your personal life, you have some tangible boundaries. You talked about family. Then about job. SP 1 is perfectionist anxiety. You're neither intense, into SX signals, nor super-mergy like SX 9. I don't see the group awareness of SO. Also, you just remind me of a SP/SX 9w1 I've known for long on a board. For the record, we spent together three years choosing between 4, 6 and 9. I was almost sure of 4 until... one day... everything appeared in a different light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Hey @skyboy since you're one of the types they're considering, can't you use yourself as a reference? Depending on what their background is, they may have mostly seen just the types in either with a low level of health or just the negative sides and that would make it hard to relate to any of the types.

And before I self-reference, do you see me as correctly typed?
Hi! I know you were asking skyboy, but I don't mind if you self-reference even if you're not 100% sure on your type. I think any input would be helpful for me as this is thee most in-depth discussion I'd had about this. A lot of people I know aren't really that deep into typology or use it as a game, but I've always thought working to understand oneself is so much more than that.


Short answer : because I know (at least) one 6w7 and many 7w6s. You're no way like them. I know many 9w1s, you're very much like some of them.

It does not sound rude at all ! Answering this question on a deeper level will take some time, I need to think of it. Some typing "tricks" are not deep. It's all the general background thoughts behind it, not for your case but about the types in general... but they are hard to explain.

I just know your type after reading a few lines. Each type emits subliminal messages. Type 9 : apologetic, unassuming, I'm not sure, I can't decide, I don't care, fatalism, tolerance... Type 1 : must, radical, rigid, uncompromising, dignifying. Type 6 : yes but, I don't believe you, the definition of X is "...." The difficulty is not so much to perceive these messages but to establish the link between these messages (with a precise shape) and the corresponding type. The observation can be done only very slowly by typing many people in real life and considering several possibilities.

But this is unimportant. What is important is to understand the core of each type. That's the hardest thing to write. Gimme some time.

Just answering the SP question (that is quite secondary):

I would not bet my life on SP but it sounds like the main guess. You sound rather self-contained, delimited in your personal life, you have some tangible boundaries. You talked about family. Then about job. SP 1 is perfectionist anxiety. You're neither intense, into SX signals, nor super-mergy like SX 9. I don't see the group awareness of SO. Also, you just remind me of a SP/SX 9w1 I've known for long on a board. For the record, we spent together three years choosing between 4, 6 and 9. I was almost sure of 4 until... one day... everything appeared in a different light.
Thank you for the follow-up! That's helping me understand. And yes for what @secondpassing said, I have mostly seen others in unhealthy versions. I feel like enneagram was popularized for me during my college years where many people were trying to figure themselves out which didn't really help either.

I can agree with you on 9. (even though I don't want to be one.) I keep catching myself falling into the tendencies. I get immersed in things and end up glazing over/zoning out. The thing is though I didn't always feel like this, when I was younger I was quite active and resisted this tendency because it made me feel like a zombie. Now though it feels more like a coping mechanism for stress. I just know as a younger child/teenager I felt a lot more "alive" than I do now.

Its hard for me to respond in depth because of these feelings. Probably because its requiring me to be more present and active in this and not just coast by. I have to will myself to keep exploring, because its easy for me to feel like just giving up. Honestly I wouldn't have even made this thread if issues didn't start occurring. It's like that jumpstarted my self-reflection, actually this is usually what always happens.

Its weird cause I spent so much time identifying as a heart type, I didn't even consider 9 that much. I feel like there's a lot of diversity in the 9 though. A lot of those I was close to who typed as 9 were a diverse group of people. My best friend was a 9 and she and I usually agreed on many things. I think our relationship got to the point of codependency, but she was one of the people I could talk about anything with and not face any judgment or disinterest. I haven't really met anyone else like that since. It's been years since I've split from her but my feelings about that relationship remain strong. It's been the case with a lot of good relationships I've had over the years.

I just hope I'm being real with you when I'm responding though because I can't really tell. Like I hope I'm not just portraying an image or just agreeing for the sake of agreeing.

I agree with the SP 9 description to an extent though! I just don't know if I'd consider myself that introverted or anything as I've usually been very ambitious and hardworking. I kind of always thought I was a social type tbh! But now thinking about 9 and the withdrawn tendencies, its tricky because I don't really know what I am extrovert or introvert. I've always moved towards people but withdrew from them as well? Maybe I'm an extrovert thats tempered down because of my enneagram? I've just dealt with so many introverts and I've always got along with them...but have been quite different.

Like I talked about my job because I HATE IT. I work with educational designs, but its mostly just passing off documents/designs to others. There's no human interaction (outside from being micromanaged) and its menial. I want to do work that helps others. Before this I did my own work as a leader of community events. I managed an entire organization and basically created gaming and nerdy events for students. I got to work with so many people and it was such a dynamic active role. I loved it even though it was stressful.

Anyways, I don't know where I was really going with this so I'll stop rambling lol. Hopefully it doesn't come off as rude or anything, I'm just trying to express my thoughts as I feel them even though they're a little negative about myself (confusion too???)


Edit: I felt weird ending it here! But I feel like all of this stems from guilt because I see how this tendency really affected others I knew. Aside from my family I've been alone recently not by choice, well by choice. When 2020 hit I went kind of into an exile and little by little the physical distance led to me emotionally distancing myself from those close to me.

To be honest keeping connections with others has always been a struggle. I don't really understand it but I can just decide to no longer talk to someone and not even notify them. Sometimes it's when a value is crossed, sometimes I feel like the relationship is over, sometimes things just end naturally. But I usually just let it happen. I don't really seek out friends (even though I make them easily) but there's something about closeness that makes me laugh people away.

My best friend, all she did was try to help me but I feel like I betrayed her by doing nothing. There wasn't really a part of.me that acknowledged the relationship or intimacy I had with people. Or why it was good having them around. Led me actively shutting out the relationship, but when they were gone it was more apparent. I think this has something to do with the tendency of the 9 but I'm not sure. I just kind of wanted to talk about it since I've bottled it up this whole time.
 

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Hi! I know you were asking skyboy, but I don't mind if you self-reference even if you're not 100% sure on your type. I think any input would be helpful for me as this is thee most in-depth discussion I'd had about this. A lot of people I know aren't really that deep into typology or use it as a game, but I've always thought working to understand oneself is so much more than that.
Especially in the precense of someone I believe to be more knowledgeable than myself on theory, I'm going to be careful and hesitant with what I say. I don't want to mislead. I had selected 6 as my main type before skyboy posted anything, but his re-explanation on the type helped me become more confident.

And hello.
This sounds a lot like my friend. He usually would rely on external support and repeatedly ask about things he was doing wrong/right, but when it came to acting on the help he wouldn't ever apply it to himself.
This does indeed sound like a 6, and I would either guess that he was in a low health level or use another typology explanation to describe why he did such a thing (won't get into that, at least not now).

But not all 6s are like that. I'm sure a bunch of other 6s readily welcome and apply outside help. With enough intellect, humility, and self-awareness, they are able to see where this support is coming from, and how it solves their problems. I think this depends on how trustworthy this support system they can find. I'm sure he was "loyal" but perhaps he was also aware of the problems. This changes if the 6 is able to find something truly stable.

If I and they typed themselves correctly, 6s and 9s on the forum have very different posting styles. 6s are prone to white-knighting -- speaking up in behalf of others, or otherwise feel compelled to contribute to the forum in a supportive manner. 9s post as if they don't exist. They leave small, quiet words here and there.
 

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Especially in the precense of someone I believe to be more knowledgeable than myself on theory, I'm going to be careful and hesitant with what I say. I don't want to mislead. I had selected 6 as my main type before skyboy posted anything, but his re-explanation on the type helped me become more confident.

And hello.

This does indeed sound like a 6, and I would either guess that he was in a low health level or use another typology explanation to describe why he did such a thing (won't get into that, at least not now).

But not all 6s are like that. I'm sure a bunch of other 6s readily welcome and apply outside help. With enough intellect, humility, and self-awareness, they are able to see where this support is coming from, and how it solves their problems. I think this depends on how trustworthy this support system they can find. I'm sure he was "loyal" but perhaps he was also aware of the problems. This changes if the 6 is able to find something truly stable.

If I and they typed themselves correctly, 6s and 9s on the forum have very different posting styles. 6s are prone to white-knighting -- speaking up in behalf of others, or otherwise feel compelled to contribute to the forum in a supportive manner. 9s post as if they don't exist. They leave small, quiet words here and there.
No worries that's understandable!

And yeah my friend is definitely low health. I've distanced myself from him for the time being. On top of all those issues I mentioned he's confined himself to virtual reality and literally stopped interacting with much of the real world. On top of alcoholism and issues with money, his addictions caused him to drop out of school. But I know all 6s are not like this. I don't have a negative view of them...just not enough understanding. He literally shut everything out and seems to be just a slave to his "habits."

I (of course I'd say this) relate to your description of 6s posting style. When I'm on reddit I tend to jump in and help others. I can't stand seeing someone being attacked or bullied. I don't know if that counts as white knighting though. I just jump in by instinct, but I would probably never do the same for myself.

At the same time, I relate to not really existing. Online I'd join Discord groups and never talk. I may say a greeting when I first get there, but the most of time I join to gather information not for the interaction. Its not that I don't want to be noticed or seen, I feel like its just not what I'm looking for.
 
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