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Is it safe to assume that trying to set up one common, objective foundation for all of your systems in understanding and evaluating things in life drives many people in circle for hours on end? I keep trying to find some core, some principle for all my systems to be set on so that they can all be nice, lined up, consistent. My hopes are that they'll all be easier to relate to each other that way and that they'll all become stronger and less disgustingly subjective.

ALL OF MY SYSTEMS ARE FUCKED UP AND IMPERFECT, AND IT'S DRIVING ME CRAZY
I haven't figured out how to cope with how arbitrary everything in life is.
Part of me assumes that I just have to accept it and go from there.
Another part of me demands that there must be some pure, objective thing to go off of, but I can't find anything. Even if there is something, I can't possibly hope to find it, because you can only perceive something subjectively.

Is there something I'm missing, or do I just need to suck it up and stop thinking about it?

Do I just need to pull a "live as you would have everyone live" and mind my own goddamn business beyond that?

I know some of you out there must be dealing with this better than me, so tell me all your secrets.
 

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Fu Dominant
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I spend most of my life in my head. Seems to solve all these issues quite well. ;o)
 

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What's wrong with life being subjective?

I think that's the beauty in it: we paint the canvas we wish to live in.

You can either be the artist that creates or the explorer who accepts what it finds.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What's wrong with life being subjective?

I think that's the beauty in it: we paint the canvas we wish to live in.

You can either be the artist that creates or the explorer who accepts what it finds.
There's nothing wrong with it, especially since that's all there can be... and especially since there can't be a wrong.

I'm just being difficult, I imagine.
 

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You know the best thing about animals is? They never have to worry how perfect they are/could be. They live by design.

Humans like animals (since we are merely a species as well) have instinct but don't accept a "design" and have none but to create one for themselves. The problem most humans have is they are unsure what "design" they want and what "design" is "correct", what most don't realize is the "design" is up to the individual not the group.
 

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There's nothing wrong with it, especially since that's all there can be... and especially since there can't be a wrong.

I'm just being difficult, I imagine.
I think you're onto something. I used to have sort of the same issue about the subjective and objective side of life. I felt like life lacked solidity and a fundamental beginning to it because there wasn't this objective paradigm of how it all began or a rule-set that defined this reality. Basically, the only thing real and objective are the consequences of your actions.
 
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MOTM July 2012
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there is absolute truth in the universe, which can be found if the heart is willing to keep searching, and, when it becomes apparent, to accept it (at times our biases discard that which is the truth as impossible, without adequate consideration).

but those absolutes do not render reality simple; reality is more than just black-and-white; reality is the full spectrum of color. reality involves what might be called "randomness"...more random than the Ni possibilities generator in our brains...therefore there will always be unpredictable elements to reality ~ the situational, the subjective, and, ultimately, the infinite. infinity exists but cannot be confined to any box nor fully grasped by the human brain. until we have infinite brains, we can never fully understand an infinite universe. we can think about it all we want, but our brains will eventually crash if we try to systematize "random" or force infinity into a finite box. all we can do is carve out a corner of reality for ourself, accept a set of absolute rules for it, and apply those rules to our own lives, but not expect everyone around us to embrace them (although there's nothing wrong with trying to persuade people to do so). even our own objectivity is subjective, because we all come from differing perspectives (T vs. F, S vs. N). infinity encompasses all these perspectives as well as those that are higher than our brains can comprehend.

ultimately, i had to realize that i could never think of everything, that the system in my mind would always be under construction, and that there would be elements that would never seem to fit anywhere in that system, and that i'd have to place them into the 'random defined by the infinite' category. i could live in my head for the rest of my life (and i probably will, lol) and still not formulate, nor solve, the equations programmed to run the universe. i had to (as illogical as it may sound) give up trying to comprehend reality solely through my mental constructs and accept that my mind was finite and this world operated under the influence of infinity. my mind is confined to time and space and limited by its restricted set of cognitive functions...reality is not confined in this way. math and science both admit the existence of infinity, why can't i?

what Iconoclastic Visionary said in his first post is so true - in line with the old adage, you can either be a thermometer or a thermostat...you can try to register what reality is, or you can determine your own reality. realize you will always be discovering what reality is, but determine whatever you can of your own individual reality, in light of action and consequence.
 

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Just left this on a thread about nihilism, edited it for its relevance here:

That "objectivity" is empowered and "subjectivity" is invalidated, is absolutely an arbitration.

Furthermore, this has no detrimental effect to ethics. What we already, and will continue to operate on is our inter-subjectively agreed upon understandings and valuations of morality.

GO TEAM SUBJECTIVITY!
 

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I've tried to recognize the systems that don't fit, or can't be resolved, and I set them free. They flew off somewhere and I don't even want a postcard. I accept that I won't figure them out, and I leave those to something bigger than me. I have faith that that bigger something has a plan for those complicated systems, and it wasn't for me to know anyway.

I hold on to a few ideas that aren't too complex, and they work pretty well for me. I've been able to stop worrying about the external world, and I've started focusing on my own internal world. This opens up a new can of worms, but my first priority is identifying the unknowables, and sending them on their way.

I've stopped trying to know the truth about everything, and I'm trying to learn the truth about the few things I can.
 

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Trying to set up an objective system as was mentioned with your own subjectivity is fruitless. Many things have been said already but to add try to look at the objectivity around you, the universe, nature, your body functions and realize there are systems consistent and there is commonality between them like things are in motion, you have energy just like many things that needs to be expended, etc. Second, thinking it is imperfect will take over your mind and you will keep viewing things as such, let go of that thought and you'll see the systems are present already.
 

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There is subjectivity and objectivity and they can both go hand in hand, though that notion might bother some people. There are instances where I will rely on solid facts and other times where I dismiss anything as a ghost trick. I suppose for me the very fabric of reality is dependant on context.
 

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I'd say it's banging your head on the wall as I've played with the thought myself for a while, but it's worthwhile banging because you get to learn more about what you think you know, and what you really know. Running all those If/Thens and experimenting with it in your own life teaches you which roads are kind of fruitful and which aren't.
 

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Well personally, I find it ironic how when I stop trying to control everything and figure it all out (when I finally let go) I discover what I so badly wanted to discover and everything falls into place. I don't know if that makes sense or if it's all just perception at the end of the day.
 
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