[alice144]

This is just something that has been rolling around in the back of my head.

So according to type development we are supposed to lean towards Fe over Ti.

Sometimes when I am in a conversation, especially with dom Fi users, we get really excited and start talking animatedly and are agreeing with each other, and then I sit and think about it for about 60 seconds, and I'm like... wait, we aren't even talking about the same thing at all.

It seems important to point this out, but it would be nice to do so without seeming to reject the other person.

Also, "fake" relationships are annoying. I have had friends where I have hidden, or rather minimized what have turned out to be integral parts of myself, and it's definitely not as stable as a relationship where one is completely genuine. If such a thing is possible. I wonder if it is an fundamental problem of Fe that you are always responding to what the other person is putting out there, so you will emphasize the aspects that you share with the other person, and be less likely to show the ones that you do not share.

All this makes me wonder if I should really curb back on the bluntness, like, maybe it has no place in most conversations. Or maybe just paired with some positive feedback so that the other person doesn't feel that I am saying these things because I dislike them or I disrespect them. Seems like so much work though. It's such a shame that people take disagreement so hard... it's never a condemnation of who they are as a person... although possibly I am making it sound that way!!

Thoughts?

 

[Razare]

Yeah.

I often lean towards Ti over Fe, but in an INFJ this manifests itself as just becoming reserved with your opinions.

I'll rarely share my views with anyone because Fe is still there demanding that I maintain social harmony. So instead of doing what you do, agreeing with areas of agreement and minimizing disagreement, because my Ti is so prominent, I just put my views aside entirely.

This ultimately prevents me from forming close relationships with most people because most wont have even the slightest idea what kind of person I am. This creates a very odd situation at times, where people project onto me what kind of person they want to believe I am. They'll act like they know me well, and talk about me to other people, assigning qualities they perceive that somehow I possess.

At work I have this gift of getting along with everyone, no matter how much a person is disliked by other workers. This is because I deal with everyone at a 5ft distance and never reveal any aspect of myself for them to critique or reject. If I disagree with something someone says around me, I usually wont speak up, I let them continue believing what they believe. As long as my actions align with what I believe, then there's nothing to worry about.

Yet, I would like more friends... I'm thinking Fe over Ti is probably a better approach.

 

[ptarmigan]

It is natural to pick your battles, but disagreeing with someone does not necessarily mean social dissonance. Someone said the most boring conversation is two people agreeing completely with each other. In any case, I would hope people I talk to express their disagreement because my desire is not that they be completely like me, but that I get to know who they are genuinely. Allowing yourself to disagree, then, like Razare seems to say, is sometimes just being more open as a person. Then, even where people do disagree with you, they can appreciate you in those ways. It is probably also worth saying though that you can disagree with people in a tactful and respectful way. It is helpful to think to yourself while disagreeing with people that you can still be friends and it is nothing between you. If that is your attitude, people will generally think along similar lines because of the body language and tone you broadcast if that is what you think.

It is a shame to try to agree with someone only to find that people who disagree with them more are better friends with them. I have seen this often, and it has made me envious.

 

[Essay]

Ooo, I really appreciate this thread---I'm a pretty strong user of both Fi and Ti. So far all my relations with INFJs have been great, but I think this topic is on to the conversational hurdles we've faced.

The Fe especially: when my friends or ex-girlfriend INFJ used to adopt an ethical stance that my Fi was impartial towards, my Ti would start up trying to clarify their stance by asking questions. I've learned from experience that if I'm not really careful about this, the first thing these awesome little INFJs do is move to defend their stance. I mean, this isn't that bad a thing; I'm pretty good at helping them through to develop their points, but I've noticed that this exhausts them. And the worst part of all is that I kind of find the process as being kind of fun/exhilarating/bonding/candid, so I never think to ease up until I notice my INFJs getting frustrated/irritable. I mean, a lot of ENFPs seem to think that that's just people not "getting"/"keeping up with" all the tangents our Ne creates, but I think it comes down to the judging functions here.

I mean, look at my Fi then. It tends to be so focused on relativist ethics and this "pessimistic" metaphysical system that I've developed that I can't always immediately confirm my friends' Fe values. Hell, my Fi is so centred on the idea of honesty and not "keeping up appearances" that I can't even just shut up and say those little confirming things that I know my INFJs want to hear unless I know I'm sincere.

I mean, really, from my point of view this is the only hurdle I've had in connecting with the INFJs in my life. Thankfully it's not a big hurdle. I'm just not one who wants to trip.

 

[nikkii]

This is just something that has been rolling around in the back of my head.

So according to type development we are supposed to lean towards Fe over Ti.

Sometimes when I am in a conversation, especially with dom Fi users, we get really excited and start talking animatedly and are agreeing with each other, and then I sit and think about it for about 60 seconds, and I'm like... wait, we aren't even talking about the same thing at all.

It seems important to point this out, but it would be nice to do so without seeming to reject the other person.

Also, "fake" relationships are annoying. I have had friends where I have hidden, or rather minimized what have turned out to be integral parts of myself, and it's definitely not as stable as a relationship where one is completely genuine. If such a thing is possible. I wonder if it is an fundamental problem of Fe that you are always responding to what the other person is putting out there, so you will emphasize the aspects that you share with the other person, and be less likely to show the ones that you do not share.

All this makes me wonder if I should really curb back on the bluntness, like, maybe it has no place in most conversations. Or maybe just paired with some positive feedback so that the other person doesn't feel that I am saying these things because I dislike them or I disrespect them. Seems like so much work though. It's such a shame that people take disagreement so hard... it's never a condemnation of who they are as a person... although possibly I am making it sound that way!!

Thoughts?

I felt like this about a year ago, It drove me crazy!! I switched to quiet understand to bluntness. Either i was a door mat or a bitch.

I think I finally found a happy medium were I'm not exactly rude but I'm not sugar coating anything plus it filters out the people who deny or don't want to hear the truth. It will save them and me time.

 

[alice144]

This ultimately prevents me from forming close relationships with most people because most wont have even the slightest idea what kind of person I am. This creates a very odd situation at times, where people project onto me what kind of person they want to believe I am. They'll act like they know me well, and talk about me to other people, assigning qualities they perceive that somehow I possess.

See, this happens when I do use Fe. People assign to me the qualities that I am projecting at the moment as completely stable qualities, not realizing that I am most likely just mirroring their behavior.

There was one point, back in the day that I used to be a lot like you, Razare. I don't know what's up with that people projecting a personality onto you when they have next to no data to go on, but I have definitely experienced that myself...

I felt like this about a year ago, It drove me crazy!! I switched to quiet understand to bluntness. Either i was a door mat or a bitch.

I think I finally found a happy medium were I'm not exactly rude but I'm not sugar coating anything plus it filters out the people who deny or don't want to hear the truth. It will save them and me time.

Ugh, this is me now. Want to elaborate, I'd love to hear your story...

Mmm... writing this in a parking lot, I got more to say, but now is neither the time or place for contemplation lol.

 

[vel]

This thread is funny because I was just having a conversation about obesity in the west with a Fi user where this was exemplified. When I was describing how population obesity stresses the healthcare system and causes extra costs for the countries and society overall, she was just looking at me with semi-empty stare and nodding. Then I switched to saying how bad those people themselves must feel and describing details of what problems they personally might face in life because of being obese, she immediately picked up on this part of conversation and started energetically contributing. Fe vs Fi in the workings lol.

I actually don't think I use Ti with Fi users but momentarily fall on my own Fi because somehow I gather this is important to them. Ti is competitive and self-centered and I don't think it particularly turns the Fi-bearers on. When I read about INFP/INTP interactions it doesn't sound like these personality types get along too well.

 

[nikkii]

Ugh, this is me now. Want to elaborate, I'd love to hear your story...

Mmm... writing this in a parking lot, I got more to say, but now is neither the time or place for contemplation lol.

I'm not sure what to elaborate. I got tired of being a push over, so then i tried the bitch thing.

Then I got this idea to just be me, I was going to be to be honest with as much kindness as possible.

People are very suspired to talk to me. They don't really get upset because I'm just saying what they were thinking so people will come to me if they need advice if.. they want to hear the truth.

 

[SarahWilliams]

Yeah.

I often lean towards Ti over Fe, but in an INFJ this manifests itself as just becoming reserved with your opinions.

I'll rarely share my views with anyone because Fe is still there demanding that I maintain social harmony. So instead of doing what you do, agreeing with areas of agreement and minimizing disagreement, because my Ti is so prominent, I just put my views aside entirely.

This ultimately prevents me from forming close relationships with most people because most wont have even the slightest idea what kind of person I am. This creates a very odd situation at times, where people project onto me what kind of person they want to believe I am. They'll act like they know me well, and talk about me to other people, assigning qualities they perceive that somehow I possess.

At work I have this gift of getting along with everyone, no matter how much a person is disliked by other workers. This is because I deal with everyone at a 5ft distance and never reveal any aspect of myself for them to critique or reject. If I disagree with something someone says around me, I usually wont speak up, I let them continue believing what they believe. As long as my actions align with what I believe, then there's nothing to worry about.

Yet, I would like more friends... I'm thinking Fe over Ti is probably a better approach.

Yeah, we're pretty much the same person... Except I have a coping mechanism where I use sarcasm and humor to disguise my feelings and distance myself from the situation at hand. It also prevents conflicts as needed.

I've also found you can use Fe to create rants that all people can appreciate (today I was ranting about bad drivers). Most people can relate to my Seinfeld-like delivery... so I get an instant 'in' with others by doing this. I express my J, and Fe, and people generally agree.

We have some similarities though. I usually don't express my opinions until I know that people will agree. The J wants to express opinions, and the Fe usually drowns that out.

Like you mentioned, I hardly *ever* reveal personal stuff to others. I just listen to their problems and agree. Sometimes I will rephrase what they said in an inherent truism. (like in the case of marriage or kids, since I've experienced neither). Such as, 'you shouldn't marry someone without agreeing on the basics.' I think this goes over well because you are literally digesting their emotions, listening, without telling your own stories.

It sounds like you more use more Fe than you think, if it prevents you from telling others your opinion.

P.S. I'm not actually sure what Ti does in INFJs. I have no doubt I use it, but I don't know which order I prefer at all.

 

[water]

I am not sure if I am following this correctly but I will try the very best to share my function use :

My ideas, problem solving come from my introverted intuition.
And my introverted thinking finds a way to make it happen.
This is geared by my extroverted feeling. (The reason behind my getting it done.)

Because my extroverted feeling wants to make other's comfortable, accepted and follow the social environmental air... I try to "adapt" my thinking and feeling functions to aid in the other person speaking freely. Sometimes this works great, other times it is a complete flop.

* Everything goes out the window when a behavioral issue arises. I don't care (Fe) so much anymore and I get straight to the point. In those moments, my introversion seems to leave the building as well.

 

[alice144]

I actually don't think I use Ti with Fi users but momentarily fall on my own Fi because somehow I gather this is important to them. Ti is competitive and self-centered and I don't think it particularly turns the Fi-bearers on. When I read about INFP/INTP interactions it doesn't sound like these personality types get along too well.

Yeah, when I do use Ti, it definitely comes off as "bitchy". This used to be how I got rid of people I didn't like who would not go away, but then I started to get a reputation. That is, it got way harder to approach the people who I really did like.

You're right, it is competitive. I never realize it except when the other person is getting defensive though, and I wonder what they are responding to.

This thread is funny because I was just having a conversation about obesity in the west with a Fi user where this was exemplified. When I was describing how population obesity stresses the healthcare system and causes extra costs for the countries and society overall, she was just looking at me with semi-empty stare and nodding. Then I switched to saying how bad those people themselves must feel and describing details of what problems they personally might face in life because of being obese, she immediately picked up on this part of conversation and started energetically contributing. Fe vs Fi in the workings lol.

And there I was thinking that I overintellectualized everything. Especially personal things, damn.

The Fe especially: when my friends or ex-girlfriend INFJ used to adopt an ethical stance that my Fi was impartial towards, my Ti would start up trying to clarify their stance by asking questions. I've learned from experience that if I'm not really careful about this, the first thing these awesome little INFJs do is move to defend their stance. I mean, this isn't that bad a thing; I'm pretty good at helping them through to develop their points, but I've noticed that this exhausts them. And the worst part of all is that I kind of find the process as being kind of fun/exhilarating/bonding/candid, so I never think to ease up until I notice my INFJs getting frustrated/irritable. I mean, a lot of ENFPs seem to think that that's just people not "getting"/"keeping up with" all the tangents our Ne creates, but I think it comes down to the judging functions here.

Yeah, I like to get to the bottom of things too, but like your INFJ friends, probably have the same gag reflex when someone starts questioning me. Probably because I have this problem where I think I'm always right...

As long as the other person isn't pendantic, we're okay. I hate getting talked down to, especially when it is so clear that the other person is in the wrong... ugh, that makes me furious!!

I'm not sure what to elaborate. I got tired of being a push over, so then i tried the bitch thing.

Then I got this idea to just be me, I was going to be to be honest with as much kindness as possible.

People are very suspired to talk to me. They don't really get upset because I'm just saying what they were thinking so people will come to me if they need advice if.. they want to hear the truth.

Hmm... so learning how to balance out Fe and Ti... yeah, that's pretty much where I am right now.