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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, INFP here. I'm sorry this thread is so specific, but I could use some advice.

I'm a junior in high school and I want to be an exchange student either the 2011-2012 or the 2012-2013 school year. This isn't a fleeting desire, it's appealed to me all my life but I've been serious about pursuing for around three years. I'm very passionate about traveling and foreign cultures and I see this as one of the best ways to experience another culture firsthand and an opportunity to become more mature as a person, as well as learning a foreign language. I have done a considerable amount of research and attended meetings for prospective exchange students. Through weighing the pros and cons I truly believe that whether the exchange itself is a good experience or a bad one, I would emerge from it a more mature and intellectual person.

My dad (the ENTJ) is thoroughly opposed to it. Though money is not an issue, he sees no value in the experience and believes it would be detrimental to my future. The school credits I would earn aren't transferable to my school here and I would either graduate a year after I'm supposed to or take a gap year. Looking at the opportunity "purely objectively", he thinks I would lose my desire to go to university after the exchange. He also believes if I went next year (2011-12), coming back, I would earn bad grades in my final year of high school. I can't speak for future me but current me understands the value of a degree and is 100% adamant about going to university. Though I see where he's coming from, I'm a straight A student and I think I'm smart enough to adapt to school back here after an exchange. He sees it as a wasted year as it wouldn't affect the "academic" outcome of my life, ie even if I didn't come back with the desire to drop out, pack a knapsack and hitchhike through North America, it would have no value to my future. My mother put it as "he sees everything as a means to an end", the end being me with a successful well-paying job. So, through his eyes, I understand how he thinks this is worthless. But despite his love of the term "objectivity", I think at the root of the issue his (quite subjective) reasons for me to not do this is a) for me to not make the same mistakes he did (he regrets earning bad grades in school and not going to university) and b) he doesn't want me to leave the nest and would miss me too much to admit it.

I see this opportunity as a way of fulfilling myself, learning a language and ultimately gaining a broader understanding than could be gained from taking a holiday or sitting in a social studies classroom. It can't be quantitatively measured on his scale of good life (good job) and bad life (no job). Simply put, I think this would make me happy. This is an opportunity I would regret SO MUCH if I missed. Does that make any sense? Though you may agree or disagree... how do I help my dad gain a different perspective than "it has no good affect on your future career prospects"?

tl;dr - how do you get an ENTJ to see the value in something they don't?
I hope I can get your thoughts on this :)
 

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My dad (the ENTJ) is thoroughly opposed to it. Though money is not an issue, he sees no value in the experience and believes it would be detrimental to my future. The school credits I would earn aren't transferable to my school here and I would either graduate a year after I'm supposed to or take a gap year. Looking at the opportunity "purely objectively", he thinks I would lose my desire to go to university after the exchange. He also believes if I went next year (2011-12), coming back, I would earn bad grades in my final year of high school. I can't speak for future me but current me understands the value of a degree and is 100% adamant about going to university.
Actually, your dad is right on this one. If traveling is going to set you a year back in high school then it isn't worth it for a straight A student. Go to a great university, and enroll in a study abroad program. The classes you take there will apply directly to your degree.

Besides, a foreign exchange program that doesn't give high school credit sounds very sketchy.

To convince an ENTJ you must have a solid value proposition. In other words, a really really really good sales pitch. In your case, the only value you present to his investment is your personal satisfaction at the expense of being held back a year.....in high school. I must stress that spending an extra year in high school is a complete deal breaker. This isn't what you want to hear but there's my two cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your input. In all the research I've done, I can't think of any program that gives you high school credit. The one I'm considering is Rotary Youth Exchange which is very reputable. Perhaps if you went to a country that spoke the same language the credits would be transferable? But learning a language is key... my country of choice is Japan and my ultimate goal is to gain admission to a university in Japan (I'm young and naive but this isn't entirely impossible - a friend of mine did it) Even if that were to not pan out I don't see how it would affect my university entrance in my home country. Haha, it's funny you mention sales pitches, my dad said "I'm not sold on this"... can you explain to me why graduating a year late is bad? Or why taking a gap year is bad? I really don't understand... a year of my life doesn't seem like a lot of time to me. I don't see how graduating in 2012 is any different from graduating in 2013.
 

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can you explain to me why graduating a year late is bad? Or why taking a gap year is bad? I really don't understand... a year of my life doesn't seem like a lot of time to me. I don't see how graduating in 2012 is any different from graduating in 2013.
12 years for a high school diploma is already too long for the amount of education you receive. Let's be honest, how much do you really learn in high school? Very little. Why spend an extra year in a crap educational system when you can go to college.

If traveling is your thing, I strongly suggest studying abroad in college. Work on getting great S.A.T. scores this year, keep up your straight A's and then you'll get a full ride scholarship to some university. Which will also make your dad much more willing to send you overseas for your degree.

^That's a sales pitch
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I feel I could gain an education from this that I've been missing out on in the classroom. It might not be something leading to a better career, but I would gain so much experience, learn so much. Just for myself. Even if it isn't valuable to a classroom education, it's something I can learn for myself. Sorry for being so irrational...

I'm definitely up for an exchange in university, though. Thanks again for replying.
 

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Just wait until your done.
 

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You'll be an adult.
Your father won't have responsibility over you anymore.
You can use it for life experience.
 

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I think people think too much of high school exchange. It can be great for sure, you can learn a lot (mostly about yourself, how you handle stress etc,) but you can do it later too. I was in high school exchange and I don't regret it. But it didn't change my life.

And school-wise, it was a complete waste of time. Really it was. Mostly because the school in my own country and in my host country were so different. I didn't learn ANYTYHING at school. There was nothing to be learned. And when I got back to my country I just wanted to get my school done soon (because I was late from everybody else). It didn't seem so important anymore to get good grades. So yes, it affected my school negatively.

So maybe your dad is right. The only thing to be gained from high school exchange is the experience. And you pay a big price for it.
 

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I wanted to be an exchange student as well, but my family wouldn't hear of it due to their xenophobia and small mindedness. I have never forgiven them for it, and never will. The thing is, education is NOT born in school, contrary to conventional wisdom. As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to state that education only REALLY starts AFTER you get out of school and in nearly every aspect is "self-education".

This seems to be the hallmark between many people. Some have the opinion "I can't wait to get out of school, so I never have to study again" while others (like me) are like "I can't wait to get outta school, so I can actually learn something." Having taught High School for 2 years, I can most certainly tell you that there is apathy on both sides of the desk. Many teachers are there to get tenure and then go through the motions and most students seemingly couldn't care less about actually learning anything. Such was my experience anyway. I actually WANTED to teach, and my first Senior class voted me their favorite teacher because of my passion for explaining things to them in ways they could understand. I digress.

School, beyond the rudiments merely attempts to teach you HOW to learn, but doesn't actually teach you, IMO. Personally, I think that the exchange program is a great idea for you, based on what I have gleaned from your post. Sorry that your dad doesn't see it the same way. ENTJs can be very stubborn... I know all too well.
 

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I come down the on "git it done" side of the fence on school, though this is pure prejudice on my part. A painful bout of unemployment will change anyone's mind who believes that money doesn't matter. Take care of school/work first, and the goodies will come after. It would make me cringe to see someone else repeating my mistakes.
 

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Can you make up for it in summer semesters in college? If you can make up the year that way, perhaps you can get through to your dad. He's being logical, you just have to make it look that way to him. As far as if you should go or not, that's truly up to you.
 

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I feel I could gain an education from this that I've been missing out on in the classroom. It might not be something leading to a better career, but I would gain so much experience, learn so much. Just for myself. Even if it isn't valuable to a classroom education, it's something I can learn for myself. Sorry for being so irrational...

I'm definitely up for an exchange in university, though. Thanks again for replying.
I don't think that you are being too irrational at all. I say go for it. Tell that ENTJ that is what you want and know that it will have a pay off eventually. Do it!!!
 

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Hay mate!

I believe its not imporatant if its a good idea or if your dad is wrong here, because your problem is not that, your problem is to convince him and let you go. if its right for you you can sort out yourself.

to do so, you need to leave convincing on one side, its good for feelings person. ENTJ what you need to do is to PERSUADE. the difference im sure u understand is that it is in his opinion going to be a good idea.

stay a bit cold on feelings in that one.

so your goal is to make your dad think that letting you go on foureign exchange (how facinating!) is a great idea, will open so much of a new etc....

having focused on that, lets see what your dad would like: sa it is that you go into a higher education.

you can then connect this two (it is just a suggestion), a in that trip wil help you to learn language and be more interresting when you go to uni. show the determination and foreign exchange trip as a part of a journey to that goal
 

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I would honestly advise you to stay in school and wait a few years with the travelling. But this was not the subject of the thread. You stated that you want to convince your father.

Change your goal of travel. Tell him that you will go to the emerging economies in China or India and learn about their language and culture. In a few years, there will be a power shift and the economic high power will move to the east. And by then, you will have a headstart.

Stress the importance of learning a second language, and tell him that when you get home again, you will continue taking courses in hindi or mandarin or whatever to keep your knowledge fresh.

Japan, though? Not really that awesome. Small language, already a strong economy, and they tend to look down on westerners as second grade citizens. An awesome place to travel as a tourist, but in the long run, not a great opportunity for future profit, and therefore not the ideal choice if you want to convince your father.

The trick would be to make him consider your proposition a better possibility to get a job with a good salary than staying in school. Getting a headstart in international relations might soften him up a bit.
 

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He might agree if you were willing to double up on schooling. If there is an online school that has credit, a mail in school, or if you finished two years in one. My dad wouldn't let me be an exchange student because I was his baby girl, i really liked the idea, but I wasn't as set on it as you are. I will suggest this, my friend is going to be going to an english speaking university in japan, the college is credited here, but she is still immersed in the japanese culture, that might be something you could do after high school. There is another program she was in in high school where she only went to japan over the summer, and lived with a japanese family, that is also another idea. Hope it works out for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for the responses, everyone. Though I've thought a lot about China and India, I don't intend to pursue a job in business or economics. For someone else, I definitely agree those are the best places to travel to for that purpose. My current plan is going during my gap year which both avoids his "coming back to Canada and failing everything except art" fear and allows for opportunities to apply for university in Japan while I'm there. He's more open to that idea. For now, I'll leave the subject alone for a bit and let him think about it on his own... thanks again to everyone who replied :)
 

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Thanks for your input. In all the research I've done, I can't think of any program that gives you high school credit. The one I'm considering is Rotary Youth Exchange which is very reputable. Perhaps if you went to a country that spoke the same language the credits would be transferable? But learning a language is key... my country of choice is Japan and my ultimate goal is to gain admission to a university in Japan (I'm young and naive but this isn't entirely impossible - a friend of mine did it) Even if that were to not pan out I don't see how it would affect my university entrance in my home country. Haha, it's funny you mention sales pitches, my dad said "I'm not sold on this"... can you explain to me why graduating a year late is bad? Or why taking a gap year is bad? I really don't understand... a year of my life doesn't seem like a lot of time to me. I don't see how graduating in 2012 is any different from graduating in 2013.
well i think you should go on the trip. I mean after all the worlds going to end in 2012:tongue:

as to the whole convensing an ENTJ about anything they have made up their minds about. i agree it is really hard and not likely to work without a really good sales pitch. but thats when your confronting them directly. You have to think like an ENTJ to beat and ENTJ. one stupied idea that i dont think will work is to act like your a racist bastered against the fornien country you want to go to and i mean really really raciest. seeing your racism your dad might decide to force you to go on it just to teach u a leason about racism. Again i repeat this is a very stupied idea. but i think something along that line of hinting might be a bit easier then trying to debate with him. Well what ever you do i wish u the best of luck.:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hah, thanks for the suggestion, but I think my dad has my views (at least the ones I've vocalized) figured out... he'd be on to me :p
 
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