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Discussion Starter #1
- "I am lacking some essential qualities of goodness, and so I will inevitably be rejected and abandoned by others."
- "Since I lost the love of someone I loved and needed in the past it must mean there's something fundamentally wrong with me."
- "Others have what I want, but I can't get it because there's something wrong with me."
- "What I want eludes me, and what I can have seems somehow boring or lacking something essential. What is here and how is mundane and boring; what I desire most is ideal and at a distance."
- "If someone does love me or want to be with me, there must be something wrong with them."
- "My intensity makes me special."
- "What I want most is love, but I won't be able to what I want because (experience has proven) I am not lovable."
- "I lack some basic attributes that wold allow others to really love me. But if I could find the ideal person who realizes how special I am, then maybe I could really experience what I long for."
- "I'm special, but others don't recognize it."
- "No one understands me. I am destined to be misunderstood."
- "I will never be able to fit in because I'm unique (or special or deficient). I feel as if I don't belong.
- "I expect that eventually, most people will abandon me."
 

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Discussion Starter #3
@Swordsman of Mana
You want to turn our mood sour ? There is not one positive belief.
this has nothing to do with me. it's all straight from Beatrice Chestnut's book. knowing the core beliefs which give rise to the types is a necessary component of finding one's type and beginning the path to self improvement.
 

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this has nothing to do with me. it's all straight from Beatrice Chestnut's book. knowing the core beliefs which give rise to the types is a necessary component of finding one's type and beginning the path to self improvement.
You posted it obviously. At least I sure know what book I won't be reading.

That kind of lists doesn't motivate self improvement, but defensive behaviors, and ultimately rejection of one's own nature. While the description is true, the good core beliefs are missing. Type 4s aren't doomed to fill asylums.

Here is a more balanced list of core beliefs:



What I Like About Being a Four

my ability to find meaning in life and to experience feeling at a deep level
my ability to establish warm connections with people
admiring what is noble, truthful, and beautiful in life
my creativity, intuition, and sense of humor
being unique and being seen as unique by others
having aesthetic sensibilities
being able to easily pick up the feelings of people around me

What's Hard About Being a Four

experiencing dark moods of emptiness and despair
feelings of self-hatred and shame; believing I don't deserve to be loved
feeling guilty when I disappoint people
feeling hurt or attacked when someone misundertands me
expecting too much from myself and life
fearing being abandoned
obsessing over resentments
longing for what I don't have
 

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Discussion Starter #5
@Kyusaku
what you also have to realize that that these are the beliefs of 4s, primarily about themselves. it doesn't mean that 4s are bad, or any worse than any other type. the reason this list is primarily negative is because 4s have a primarily negative self image. the lists for, say, 7 or 8 will be more positive, because the way they view themselves is more positive, but that neither makes their assets any better nor their type related struggles less severe.
 

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You posted it obviously...
He's been posting these in each of the 9 type's forums. (Or at least all I've looked at.) He's not just pooping on 4s, the dude's going full 5 over Beatrice's Enneagram noise.

Not that your opinion isn't still welcomed. I can't see what else these threads would be for, if not to get people's thoughts/opinions.
 

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Just curious, do you think some of these only apply to specific subtypes? I'm so/sx and some apply truer to me than others while a few aren't true at all (at least in my personal experience).
 

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@Kyusaku
what you also have to realize that that these are the beliefs of 4s, primarily about themselves. it doesn't mean that 4s are bad, or any worse than any other type. the reason this list is primarily negative is because 4s have a primarily negative self image. the lists for, say, 7 or 8 will be more positive, because the way they view themselves is more positive, but that neither makes their assets any better nor their type related struggles less severe.
This list is true as far as brooding and depressing mood go. Those are not healthy states.

He's been posting these in each of the 9 type's forums. (Or at least all I've looked at.) He's not just pooping on 4s, the dude's going full 5 over Beatrice's Enneagram noise.

Not that your opinion isn't still welcomed. I can't see what else these threads would be for, if not to get people's thoughts/opinions.
It has nothing to do with the OP's intention. This list is inaccurate, if he posts it here that means he gives it credit enough to share it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Just curious, do you think some of these only apply to specific subtypes? I'm so/sx and some apply truer to me than others while a few aren't true at all (at least in my personal experience).
ideally, it's not supposed to be, but there is a little bias toward certain subtypes (though more toward Social 4s than against them)
 

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You posted it obviously. At least I sure know what book I won't be reading.

That kind of lists doesn't motivate self improvement, but defensive behaviors, and ultimately rejection of one's own nature. While the description is true, the good core beliefs are missing. Type 4s aren't doomed to fill asylums.
You are projecting positive outlook defenses.
 

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You are projecting positive outlook defenses.
I don't fully understand what you mean. We are talking about core beliefs here, motivations draw from there. The way I read it, our core is rotten, because all those beliefs are unhealthy. The only potential for growth is to change type entirely. It's retarded. Enneagram type bias if I ever saw one.
 

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Most of these ring true for me. I'd rather they didn't. I struggle a lot with mental processes centred around trying to find "the problem" within me, believing that if I could just root that out I could figure out how to be at peace. The mental processing that has actually been effective is when I get outside some persistent belief I keep coming back to and start questioning whether it's true and the valid ways in which it might not be. Still it's always tempting to dive down into the rabbit hole I think will lead me to figure out what's missing and milk the journey for all it's worth.
 

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@Kyusaku
what you also have to realize that that these are the beliefs of 4s, primarily about themselves. it doesn't mean that 4s are bad, or any worse than any other type. the reason this list is primarily negative is because 4s have a primarily negative self image. the lists for, say, 7 or 8 will be more positive, because the way they view themselves is more positive, but that neither makes their assets any better nor their type related struggles less severe.
One would think a 7 or 8 would not have problems related to self-image; but that they *may* have problems related to those whom they have run over, being resentful or vengeful; which presumably would be countered by the legions of the 7 or 8 's "fans" (attracted by the positive energy), running interference.

Disclaimer: purely theory, I don't know any 7s or 8s IRL.

Your counterarguments or observations are welcome...
 

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One would think a 7 or 8 would not have problems related to self-image; but that they *may* have problems related to those whom they have run over, being resentful or vengeful; which presumably would be countered by the legions of the 7 or 8 's "fans" (attracted by the positive energy), running interference.

Disclaimer: purely theory, I don't know any 7s or 8s IRL.

Your counterarguments or observations are welcome...
One of my best friend is an ISTP type 7w6. His self confidence is only an appearance, even if he believes in it to some extent, he gets frustrated that everything seems set on troubling his peace. My ENTJ type 8w9 brother is pretty much the same. It's the fault of the people around them for not believing as strongly as they do, or being as committed as they are. They might not think directly they are at fault, but these thoughts slowly creep out, and they do everything they can to keep it unconscious.
 

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All seems accurate to me. And I think things like this are helpful to post. Habitual thought patterns that serve no purpose -- lots of "I can't" "Nobody understands" "I'll never be this or that" -- are what I used to experience daily. They seemed a given. Being aware of these intrusive messages which I formerly accepted as fact rather than my own perception has been one of the keys to help in overcoming them.
 

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One would think a 7 or 8 would not have problems related to self-image; but that they *may* have problems related to those whom they have run over, being resentful or vengeful; which presumably would be countered by the legions of the 7 or 8 's "fans" (attracted by the positive energy), running interference.

Disclaimer: purely theory, I don't know any 7s or 8s IRL.

Your counterarguments or observations are welcome...
I have a strong 8 in my triad, I never bothered much in the past about who I ran over...:dry: hopefully I'm growing up a bit more now...
 

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- "I am lacking some essential qualities of goodness, and so I will inevitably be rejected and abandoned by others."
- "Since I lost the love of someone I loved and needed in the past it must mean there's something fundamentally wrong with me."
- "Others have what I want, but I can't get it because there's something wrong with me."
- "What I want eludes me, and what I can have seems somehow boring or lacking something essential. What is here and how is mundane and boring; what I desire most is ideal and at a distance."
- "If someone does love me or want to be with me, there must be something wrong with them."
- "My intensity makes me special."
- "What I want most is love, but I won't be able to what I want because (experience has proven) I am not lovable."
- "I lack some basic attributes that wold allow others to really love me. But if I could find the ideal person who realizes how special I am, then maybe I could really experience what I long for."
- "I'm special, but others don't recognize it."
- "No one understands me. I am destined to be misunderstood."
- "I will never be able to fit in because I'm unique (or special or deficient). I feel as if I don't belong.
- "I expect that eventually, most people will abandon me."
In other words, 4s are weepy little pussy willows. Yuck.
 

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I don't fully understand what you mean. We are talking about core beliefs here, motivations draw from there. The way I read it, our core is rotten, because all those beliefs are unhealthy. The only potential for growth is to change type entirely. It's retarded. Enneagram type bias if I ever saw one.
I meant that you are assuming other people see it the same way you did and have a desire to put a positive spin on it. I read it and didn't think much of it. All it is seems to me is an author trying to articulate false thought patterns of a type. You somehow took this to be personal criticism...
 

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I meant that you are assuming other people see it the same way you did and have a desire to put a positive spin on it. I read it and didn't think much of it. All it is seems to me is an author trying to articulate false thought patterns of a type. You somehow took this to be personal criticism...
How is it any of your business ?
 
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