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- "The world is a dangerous place, and you must be alert to be aware of signs of trouble in order to stay safe".
- "By imagining the worst thing that could happen, you can prepare for it and thus potentially protect yourself or ward it off in advance."
- "By expecting and anticipating what might go wrong, you can guard against making mistakes, getting hurt or becoming trapped in a bad situation."
- "Imminent catastrophe could strike at any, and if you aren't prepared, you will be less able to prevent it or deal with it."
- "Searching for certainty and gathering information in an uncertain world is one way to feel safer."
- "It's difficult to completely trust anything (or anyone) because there's always room for doubt."
- "It's good to be on guard about how people might threaten you, hurt you or take advantage of you, so you won't be taken by surprise and unable to protect yourself."
- phobic: "By focusing on the ways in which I am vulnerable to others, I can take steps to minimize my vulnerability."
- counterphobic: "By focusing on the challenges I must meet as I move through life, I can think about ways to overcome those difficulties by proactively meeting them with strength and forcefulness."
 

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Discussion Starter #3
@Swordsman of Mana Would most 6's be aware that those are their core beliefs? Cause after reading that I highly doubt I'm a 6...
typically, it should trigger some sort of response, whether you are consciously aware of said drives or not. if not, I posted an equivalent thread for all 9 types, so feel free to check out the others to see if any resonate with you.
 

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See, my relationship with these beliefs is strange. On a purely intellectual level I can sort of see the accuracy of these ideas but on an emotional level I hate them and I rarely make the preparations you describe.

...I think. I might unconsciously tend towards retaining information about substances that might damage me more, ways I could injure myself, etc. I don't do it with people though.
 

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Hmmm, I can relate a little. To the point where it may be a wing or a fix in a less prominent triad.

I don't know if other 6s can relate, but I often find that I react to a wrongdoing not so much to get even, but with the main goal of proving to myself that I'm not weak. So it's like trying to prove to myself that I'm not vulnerable, and that I can stand up for myself.

So if someone was to confront me aggressively it would open up an insecurity, it has made me second guess myself. I wouldn't mind losing the fight as long as I could say that I didn't back down.

But I wouldn't say that I see the world as an intimidating place.
 

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Hmmm, I can relate a little. To the point where it may be a wing or a fix in a less prominent triad.

I don't know if other 6s can relate, but I often find that I react to a wrongdoing not so much to get even, but with the main goal of proving to myself that I'm not weak. So it's like trying to prove to myself that I'm not vulnerable, and that I can stand up for myself.

So if someone was to confront me aggressively it would open up an insecurity, it has made me second guess myself. I wouldn't mind losing the fight as long as I could say that I didn't back down.

But I wouldn't say that I see the world as an intimidating place.
Yeah, I can relate to this. It becomes an issue of "I have to prove to myself that I'm capable of handling conflict like a strong person would". If I walk away, I feel weak and avoidant.

But who IS a strong person? Is it the people who are admired? Is it the people who stay calm? Is it the people who get inflamed and harsh? I never know the answer to this question, so I usually observe self-confident people closely and try to see what they do and how they do it, because I'd like to know the secret to self-confidence.

The irony, though, is that I'm never going to learn that secret by watching anyone else.
 

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- "The world is a dangerous place, and you must be alert to be aware of signs of trouble in order to stay safe".

Well duuh. The world IS a dangerous place. That shit is factually true, bot just a belief. Ppl who think otherwise imo are blind or in denial.

- "By imagining the worst thing that could happen, you can prepare for it and thus potentially protect yourself or ward it off in advance."


If you do not prepare at least mentally it will blindside you. So yeah. Common sense.

- "By expecting and anticipating what might go wrong, you can guard against making mistakes, getting hurt or becoming trapped in a bad situation."

Common sense.

- "Imminent catastrophe could strike at any, and if you aren't prepared, you will be less able to prevent it or deal with it."

I don't agree. You could walk out the door and brick falls on your head, you die. You can die any moment & its pointless to agonize over something like that. One can not control the outside world & choosing to do so only leads to suffering.

- "Searching for certainty and gathering information in an uncertain world is one way to feel safer."

Yupp, pretty much. Imo if one needs to understand geopolitics & the economy for example.

- "It's difficult to completely trust anything (or anyone) because there's always room for doubt."

>.> yupp.

- "It's good to be on guard about how people might threaten you, hurt you or take advantage of you, so you won't be taken by surprise and unable to protect yourself."

WHAT!? >___> NO! Screw that shit! People who hurt me get the axe! Theoretically at least I can "smell" such ppl from miles away, in practice I keep away & strust very slowly. Once I do, I don;t worry any more.

- phobic: "By focusing on the ways in which I am vulnerable to others, I can take steps to minimize my vulnerability."

Makes sense.

- counterphobic: "By focusing on the challenges I must meet as I move through life, I can think about ways to overcome those difficulties by proactively meeting them with strength and forcefulness."

Makes sense
 

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"The world is a dangerous place, and you must be alert to be aware of signs of trouble in order to stay safe".
No, this isn't a thought I consciously have. But I do become instantly aware of physical risks in the environment: I think this is not because of my developmental psychological wound but the fact that treating people injured in accidents is my job.

- "By imagining the worst thing that could happen, you can prepare for it and thus potentially protect yourself or ward it off in advance."
Yes, but this happens in response to a challenge rather than as an ever-present process. If something bad happens, I do go through the process of imagining the worst, working out that I can probably cope with that, having a strategy and so feeling better about it.

- "By expecting and anticipating what might go wrong, you can guard against making mistakes, getting hurt or becoming trapped in a bad situation."
Yes, but likewise, I only go through this process when I am approaching something that needs action to deal with.

- "Imminent catastrophe could strike at any, and if you aren't prepared, you will be less able to prevent it or deal with it."
No, can't say this troubles me much. I know shit happens, and can happen no matter how prepared you think you are.

- "Searching for certainty and gathering information in an uncertain world is one way to feel safer."

I feel safe most of the time. I can deal very well with uncertainty. But I do analyse probable outcomes, I suppose.

- "It's difficult to completely trust anything (or anyone) because there's always room for doubt."
No, I don't think I have trust issues.

- "It's good to be on guard about how people might threaten you, hurt you or take advantage of you, so you won't be taken by surprise and unable to protect yourself."
To be honest, I think I am on top of most people and what they could do to me. More likely the other way round! Humanity is just lucky I'm a decent person...

- phobic: "By focusing on the ways in which I am vulnerable to others, I can take steps to minimize my vulnerability."
Not a thought I ever have.

- counterphobic: "By focusing on the challenges I must meet as I move through life, I can think about ways to overcome those difficulties by proactively meeting them with strength and forcefulness."
Nor this one.

As always, never quite fits. But I still have doubts whether I'm 6w7 or 7w6. Now off to try out the 7 ones....

edit: Ok, done that, and did it for all 9 types. I definitely resonate with 6 in a way that I don't with any of the other types. Hey, maybe I'm just healthy and so don't feel as scared as I could or should much of the time. Hurrah!
 

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"The world is a dangerous place, and you must be alert to be aware of signs of trouble in order to stay safe".
Yes. However, I am not always that aware of signs of trouble since not every trouble is possible to foresee. If one is functioning constantly in such mode, I think they would develop severe paranoia.

- "By imagining the worst thing that could happen, you can prepare for it and thus potentially protect yourself or ward it off in advance."

I do imagine the worst thing that could happen, however, instead of preparing I sometimes paralyze, or it because to self-fulfilling prophecy.Maybe that is why I am “good” at predicting them. They usually become true.

- "By expecting and anticipating what might go wrong, you can guard against making mistakes, getting hurt or becoming trapped in a bad situation."

Not necessarily. Anger cannot be controlled always or counter phobic and counterproductive behavior. One still can get hurt, especially what they predicted becomes the truth than nobody else sees.

- "Imminent catastrophe could strike at any, and if you aren't prepared, you will be less able to prevent it or deal with it."

I do not have any supplies at home for the end of the world.

- "Searching for certainty and gathering information in an uncertain world is one way to feel safer."

This is what I do a lot. Gathering information is the must.

- "It's difficult to completely trust anything (or anyone) because there's always room for doubt."

I doubt myself too. I doubt others but not to such extent and not immediately. If I was like this I would be much more careful and not get hurt.

- "It's good to be on guard about how people might threaten you, hurt you or take advantage of you, so you won't be taken by surprise and unable to protect yourself."

One is not always able to protect themselves. Guard is good, but not always do I put this guard up. In fact I am more prone to question people then to doubt. After questioning phase is over and if they deserve the doubt, then I avoid them. That being said, around some people I put immediate guard and doubt them. I am not blind.

- Phobic: "By focusing on the ways in which I am vulnerable to others, I can take steps to minimize my vulnerability."

Not always. I am not always conscious of it.

- counterphobic: "By focusing on the challenges I must meet as I move through life, I can think about ways to overcome those difficulties by proactively meeting them with strength and forcefulness."

Not proactively always though, but some things have to be met with strength and forcefulness after I find them difficult. Now, I am not this aggressive person, who constantly fights the world around me.

 

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6 or not, here are my thoughts.

- "The world is a dangerous place, and you must be alert to be aware of signs of trouble in order to stay safe".
That makes sense.

- "By imagining the worst thing that could happen, you can prepare for it and thus potentially protect yourself or ward it off in advance."
I agree with that actually. Not that I'm good at implementing it in my daily life. The funny thing is, earlier in my enneagram explorations, most people seemed to think I'm big on "worst case scenarios". But the fact is, I wouldn't have made these idiotic mistakes in my life if I were actually good at doing this. They were based on, What could possibly go wrong with this??

Go figure.

- "By expecting and anticipating what might go wrong, you can guard against making mistakes, getting hurt or becoming trapped in a bad situation."
I guess so.

- "Imminent catastrophe could strike at any ANY WHAT??, and if you aren't prepared, you will be less able to prevent it or deal with it."
yes, it could, and I don't care. Life is short.

- "Searching for certainty and gathering information in an uncertain world is one way to feel safer."
Don't care. Nothing's ever certain. Wouldn't be interesting if it was.

- "It's difficult to completely trust anything (or anyone) because there's always room for doubt."
I mean I guess so, but I don't care. I don't think this way.

- "It's good to be on guard about how people might threaten you, hurt you or take advantage of you, so you won't be taken by surprise and unable to protect yourself."
Yeah, I can agree with that.

- phobic: "By focusing on the ways in which I am vulnerable to others, I can take steps to minimize my vulnerability."
- counterphobic: "By focusing on the challenges I must meet as I move through life, I can think about ways to overcome those difficulties by proactively meeting them with strength and forcefulness."
Yes, I'd say so.
 

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Yeah, I can relate to this. It becomes an issue of "I have to prove to myself that I'm capable of handling conflict like a strong person would". If I walk away, I feel weak and avoidant.

But who IS a strong person? Is it the people who are admired? Is it the people who stay calm? Is it the people who get inflamed and harsh? I never know the answer to this question, so I usually observe self-confident people closely and try to see what they do and how they do it, because I'd like to know the secret to self-confidence.

The irony, though, is that I'm never going to learn that secret by watching anyone else.
That's a good point you made at the end hahaha.

When it comes down to it, in my eyes the strong person is the one who can live life according to what is important to them regardless of what may come in their way. So you could argue that the reaction of anger and a desire to not appear vulnerable in the face of threat is succumbing to the way that others want you to be.

I just hate the idea that someone can get away with being an asshole to someone else. I have quite good self-confidence and belief in myself but when it comes to people being unnecessarily rude or heartless to myself or another, it's hard to let it go. I keep thinking about it until I confront them finally about it. Or in time I forget.

But I think I might be 7w6 rather than 6w7 so i still need to understand the nuances a bit more
 

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That's a good point you made at the end hahaha.

When it comes down to it, in my eyes the strong person is the one who can live life according to what is important to them regardless of what may come in their way. So you could argue that the reaction of anger and a desire to not appear vulnerable in the face of threat is succumbing to the way that others want you to be.
That's one way of looking at it, but what happens when it becomes difficult to pinpoint what should be important to me? If I can't ascertain the rightful truths to live my life by, how can I champion anything? That's why I have a tendency to have role models, to see if people lead their lives in ways that seem to me particularly original and fearless.

I just hate the idea that someone can get away with being an asshole to someone else. I have quite good self-confidence and belief in myself but when it comes to people being unnecessarily rude or heartless to myself or another, it's hard to let it go. I keep thinking about it until I confront them finally about it. Or in time I forget.

But I think I might be 7w6 rather than 6w7 so i still need to understand the nuances a bit more
Hmm... belief in myself is something I struggle with, honestly. I've tried to tell myself to speak up whenever I see a terrible injustice happening, but that doesn't mean the process isn't nerve-wracking and involves a lot of thought about how to avoid making the argument more inflamed than it already is.
 

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That's one way of looking at it, but what happens when it becomes difficult to pinpoint what should be important to me? If I can't ascertain the rightful truths to live my life by, how can I champion anything? That's why I have a tendency to have role models, to see if people lead their lives in ways that seem to me particularly original and fearless.



Hmm... belief in myself is something I struggle with, honestly. I've tried to tell myself to speak up whenever I see a terrible injustice happening, but that doesn't mean the process isn't nerve-wracking and involves a lot of thought about how to avoid making the argument more inflamed than it already is.
Well personally I tried not over-thinking things and instead going with what I felt was the best option and I found constantly that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Of course easier said than done, but it involves a decision and ignoring those constant thoughts of "what if I come across as weird? what if I'm not as confident as I feel I can be?" etc. I just thought "yeah so what?", "so what if I don't, it'll only get better with time".

When I say find what's important I'm also meaning pursuing what you feel will make you happy without obstacles to throw you off.
 

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That's one way of looking at it, but what happens when it becomes difficult to pinpoint what should be important to me? If I can't ascertain the rightful truths to live my life by, how can I champion anything?
Well as long as it doesn't happen you will probably act according to your 'rightful truth'. When such a moment comes you will not be able to prepare or be prepared, moments of confusion come and go, there is nu use in worrying about them beforehand, the only time it will actually be useful to think about it, is the moment it happens.

People probably don't always know what's right or wrong, even on a personal level, regardless we make decisions and result come out of them. Can you really blame yourself for doing something wrong of which you didn't know it was wrong in the first place? I would say not really.
I have a tendency to have role models, to see if people lead their lives in ways that seem to me particularly original and fearless.
I don't really have role models, in the sense that there is no one I would like to be other than myself. If I deeply identify with a person's ideas about life, I will take a look at them and maybe use some of their ideas, but I will never aspire to be like them, because that simply won't work, because I'm me.

And I don't find people that life their lives fearlessly all that interesting, I find the people who shit their pants but do something regardless far more interesting, because they do something they deeply fear, but they still do it because they know it needs doing, and that it's important.
Hmm... belief in myself is something I struggle with, honestly. I've tried to tell myself to speak up whenever I see a terrible injustice happening, but that doesn't mean the process isn't nerve-wracking and involves a lot of thought about how to avoid making the argument more inflamed than it already is.
Though you did speak up, and even though it was nerve-wracking, you spoke your truth, which is something I would call courage, and that is something admirable. I would say that there is no courage without fear. Sometimes you can't avoid the issue getting more inflamed, but if you simply stay polite when you do your say, you at least tried to not to stir things up.

----On-Topic---
I don't really Identify with these beliefs anymore, of course they all ring true in some sense or another, but to call them my core beliefs? No, my core belief has in no way been constant, I believe we can and we will all change in many ways.
 

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Well as long as it doesn't happen you will probably act according to your 'rightful truth'. When such a moment comes you will not be able to prepare or be prepared, moments of confusion come and go, there is nu use in worrying about them beforehand, the only time it will actually be useful to think about it, is the moment it happens.

People probably don't always know what's right or wrong, even on a personal level, regardless we make decisions and result come out of them. Can you really blame yourself for doing something wrong of which you didn't know it was wrong in the first place? I would say not really.
That's kind of why I wish I was a person with a busy life, so there would be no moments to really sit down and "think" about shit. I don't have the energy for a super-busy life though.

Also, whether or not it's useful to worry about things, the worry happens anyway.

I don't really have role models, in the sense that there is no one I would like to be other than myself. If I deeply identify with a person's ideas about life, I will take a look at them and maybe use some of their ideas, but I will never aspire to be like them, because that simply won't work, because I'm me.

And I don't find people that life their lives fearlessly all that interesting, I find the people who shit their pants but do something regardless far more interesting, because they do something they deeply fear, but they still do it because they know it needs doing, and that it's important.

Though you did speak up, and even though it was nerve-wracking, you spoke your truth, which is something I would call courage, and that is something admirable. I would say that there is no courage without fear. Sometimes you can't avoid the issue getting more inflamed, but if you simply stay polite when you do your say, you at least tried to not to stir things up.
Well... anything can be made to work with one's life if they believe in it strongly enough, lol. That's another reason I don't know what viewpoints I should adopt to live my life by.

I guess the reason I don't feel particularly great about doing courageous things is that the fear still exists and eats away at me. It feels like I'm acting out a tainted version of fearlessness. A sham. That I'll never really achieve the state of perfect self-confidence that all my role models seems to embody. I don't want to live a life filled with halfway achievements like "well I'm not perfectly fearless, but at least I tried!" That's not enough for me -- that just feels weaker than ever, knowing that I can never escape the self-doubt. I don't want to live with it, because it feels like a disease.
 

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Well personally I tried not over-thinking things and instead going with what I felt was the best option and I found constantly that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Of course easier said than done, but it involves a decision and ignoring those constant thoughts of "what if I come across as weird? what if I'm not as confident as I feel I can be?" etc. I just thought "yeah so what?", "so what if I don't, it'll only get better with time".

When I say find what's important I'm also meaning pursuing what you feel will make you happy without obstacles to throw you off.
It's never as bad as it seems, I agree. But overthinking really is the default state of being for me >_< I wouldn't know what it's like to be normal or "stop" thinking, like everyone loves to advise me. I honestly wish there were some positives to overthinking to make it seem like less of a burden...

And there are many things I can "feel" are the best options. I don't consciously feel that one option is always more beneficial than the other, because I can't predict the future.
 

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That's kind of why I wish I was a person with a busy life, so there would be no moments to really sit down and "think" about shit. I don't have the energy for a super-busy life though.
Why be busy? I can guarantee you, even if you fill up your time with a lot of busy stuff, you will still have plenty of time to think. Also just being busy would get me bored, I need to be doing things I enjoy and find meaningful and in my pace. Most people overwork themselves by wanting to be busy. You can't escape anxiety by working a lot.
Also, whether or not it's useful to worry about things, the worry happens anyway.
I know, but it is useful to realize the worry doesn't necessarily say anything about reality or is accurately able to predict what happens, but judging your reaction you probably where already aware of that.
Well... anything can be made to work with one's life if they believe in it strongly enough, lol. That's another reason I don't know what viewpoints I should adopt to live my life by.
It's not always pure belief, sure I doubt the decisions I make at any point, but I still make them, not always because I belief strongly but because I know they will make me grow. But if you still don't know it's fine, it's not like we all know what we want at any point given in time.
I guess the reason I don't feel particularly great about doing courageous things is that the fear still exists and eats away at me. It feels like I'm acting out a tainted version of fearlessness. A sham. That I'll never really achieve the state of perfect self-confidence that all my role models seems to embody.
A perspective I consider strange. Why would it eat away at you? I mean what I probably would guess is that your level of anxiety has always been high and that has probably lead you to conquering many fears early on in life. You were acting out fearlessness from the beginning, it's courage, every time you display that courage and choose to move and look past your fears instead of staying stuck inside your fears , you win a little victory, and every time you do your fear subsides a little bit.
I don't want to live a life filled with halfway achievements like "well I'm not perfectly fearless, but at least I tried!" That's not enough for me -- that just feels weaker than ever, knowing that I can never escape the self-doubt. I don't want to live with it, because it feels like a disease.
You can never escape the self-doubt, because escaping would imply running away from it, which often only makes it worse. Perfect is something you can't achieve anyways, since you change and your notion of perfect does too, and then again perfection is a mental concept. How are you weak? Weak because you fear, weak because you want to escape that fear? That doesn't make you weak, you're still here enduring all this fear, it's not like you wanted this fear to be there. It was just there and you had to deal with it. Look, I doubt, I figuratively shit my pants at many points, I so often over think things and can't stop thinking, and I doubt myself, the more you face your fears the more you get used to do that, until it becomes a habit, and all becomes a little easier, bit by bit.
It's never as bad as it seems, I agree. But overthinking really is the default state of being for me >_< I wouldn't know what it's like to be normal or "stop" thinking, like everyone loves to advise me. I honestly wish there were some positives to overthinking to make it seem like less of a burden...
Why be normal? Why stop thinking? I have had many people telling me the same things, it's hard to focus when your natural state of mind is overthinking, but overthinking is useless, you have to accept that, and you also have to accept that it's fine if you can't accept that. What I think most sixes need most, including myself, is to finally start being kind to themselves, nobody can put a burden on you like you put on yourself. It's something I had a lot of trouble learning, but after a while you start getting better at it, and the better you get at it, the more relaxed you get. You will only suffer if you choose to make yourself suffer, I mean fear can hurt you, but whether you suffer or not is up to you.
 
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