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Discussion Starter #1
- "I don't matter. It's easier that way."
- "What I think and feel isn't that important. And that's okay. Other people just feel more strongly about things than I do."
- "It's not okay to be angry or upset because that puts you at odds with others."
- "It's more important to be nice and peaceful than to be true to myself."
- "It's not good to show anger because conflict destroys positive connections with others."
- "If I'm not present and accessible to others, I'm safe."
- "I don't know what I want, and it's not important anyway."
- "I'm incapable of knowing what I want."
- "Knowing what I want and asserting my desires in the world of others takes too much work and will alienate people I need or want to stay connected to."
- It's easier to go along with what other people want than to go to the trouble of asserting what I want."
 

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Love these lists. Heh, I just tallied how many from each type I agreed with/identified with. Nine somehow came out the highest, barely.
 
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@rockinlibrarian @pearslug

It seems you guys got a list devoid of any positive beliefs, just like us type 4s. Here's something to cheer you up a bit.



What I Like About Being a Nine

being nonjudgmental and accepting
caring for and being concerned about others
being able to relax and have a good time
knowing that most people enjoy my company; I'm easy to be around
my ability to see many different sides of an issue and to be a good mediator and facilitator
my heightened awareness of sensations, aesthetics, and the here and now
being able to go with the flow and feel one with the universe

What's Hard About Being a Nine

being judged and misunderstood for being placid and/or indecisive
being critical of myself for lacking initiative and discipline
being too sensitive to criticism; taking every raised eyebrow and twitch of the mouth personally
being confused about what I really want
caring too much about what others will think of me
not being listened to or taken seriously
 

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@rockinlibrarian @pearslug

It seems you guys got a list devoid of any positive beliefs, just like us type 4s. Here's something to cheer you up a bit.



What I Like About Being a Nine

being nonjudgmental and accepting
caring for and being concerned about others
being able to relax and have a good time
knowing that most people enjoy my company; I'm easy to be around
my ability to see many different sides of an issue and to be a good mediator and facilitator
my heightened awareness of sensations, aesthetics, and the here and now
being able to go with the flow and feel one with the universe

What's Hard About Being a Nine

being judged and misunderstood for being placid and/or indecisive
being critical of myself for lacking initiative and discipline
being too sensitive to criticism; taking every raised eyebrow and twitch of the mouth personally
being confused about what I really want
caring too much about what others will think of me
not being listened to or taken seriously

Have you looked at all the lists? Most of them are pretty negative. This is the Enneagram - it's about the ugly side of your personality.
 

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What do you mean?
"This is the Enneagram - it's about the ugly side of your personality."

What's your source ?

edit:

Here's a description from the author's website.

The word Enneagram derives from the Greek words ennea (“nine”) and gram (“something written or drawn”) and refers to this nine-pointed figure inscribed in a circle. The enneagram symbol conveys a great deal of knowledge about the nature of change, both in the human psyche and other natural systems.

The Enneagram system of personality types situated around the enneagram symbol offers profound insights into the way people think, feel, and behave. It lays out nine distinct personality types and the patterns and habits that characterize them. Its great power lies in the accuracy and depth of the personality descriptions and the transformational path it offers those who wish to grow to reach their fullest potential.
 

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"This is the Enneagram - it's about the ugly side of your personality."

What's your source ?

edit:

Here's a description from the author's website.

The word Enneagram derives from the Greek words ennea (“nine”) and gram (“something written or drawn”) and refers to this nine-pointed figure inscribed in a circle. The enneagram symbol conveys a great deal of knowledge about the nature of change, both in the human psyche and other natural systems.

The Enneagram system of personality types situated around the enneagram symbol offers profound insights into the way people think, feel, and behave. It lays out nine distinct personality types and the patterns and habits that characterize them. Its great power lies in the accuracy and depth of the personality descriptions and the transformational path it offers those who wish to grow to reach their fullest potential.
I don't have a distinct source; it's mostly an attitude I've gathered from reading more about the subject. Look at the focus of most non-RH type descriptions, of these lists. Enneagram is about your dysfunction: the way a person tries to cope with some existential deficiency, despite how fixating on that mechanism actually holds them back from what's best for their personal development.
 

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I don't have a distinct source; it's mostly an attitude I've gathered from reading more about the subject. Look at the focus of most non-RH type descriptions, of these lists. Enneagram is about your dysfunction: the way a person tries to cope with some existential deficiency, despite how fixating on that mechanism actually holds them back from what's best for their personal development.
I highly doubt people can swallow such amount of vitriol without flinching at some point or another. Personal development is about getting healthy, not change the personality at its core. Acceptance not rejection. I don't see how anyone can accept being anything near what is described in those lists, they are downright creepy.
 

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I highly doubt people can swallow such amount of vitriol without flinching at some point or another. Personal development is about getting healthy, not change the personality at its core. Acceptance not rejection. I don't see how anyone can accept being anything near what is described in those lists, they are downright creepy.
Then, why don't you?
 

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Well, I'll just lie down on the couch over there while we go briefly through my life for the next few hours...

Seriously, how do you expect me to answer such a question ?

If you have an argument tell it straight.
I'm not saying it is easy. But to accept means, as it is. Not 'if...then', which is conditional. If you want people to accept you as you are, be the first to do so.

And just from a practical pov, how can you expect that from others when you can't yourself? Really, you need to make the first move. There's no other way.
 

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Well, I'll just lie down on the couch over there while we go briefly through my life for the next few hours...

Seriously, how do you expect me to answer such a question ?

If you have an argument tell it straight.
You made an excellent point before: it's about growth and development. Recognizing your fixations so you can work on overcoming them. And it's supposed to be a long-time development thing: you're not going to fix everything in one massive introspection session.

But you kind of have to "swallow the vitriol" first, understand what your problems are before you can tackle them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I feel like half-scared reading these, like they're affirmations and I'll just believe them all the stronger if I repeat them in my head (ie read them). Not that they're not already running through my head. But, you know.
in that case, this is a glass half full issue. you are aware of the pervasive manner in which these beliefs permeate your mind, and you are aware that they are sometimes self-defeating. the solution now is to face them and say "stop! I don't have to believe that. I can choose to value myself." notice I didn't say "should". I don't believe indulging the ego from time to time is necessarily bad, but, whether or not you believe it is, the first step to freedom is observation and self acceptance.
 

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I'm not saying it is easy. But to accept means, as it is. Not 'if...then', which is conditional. If you want people to accept you as you are, be the first to do so.

And just from a practical pov, how can you expect that from others when you can't yourself? Really, you need to make the first move. There's no other way.
From a practical standpoint, it's a bad idea to even try to find acceptance from others. There are too many people, too much efforts to do, and very little gains to have. What's the big appeal anyway ? As long as you are clear about why you are interacting with them, acceptance is secondary. To me this reeks of narcissism more than anything. You want others to like you the exact same way you do like yourself.

Otherwise there's no rule about such stuff, you can make up some for yourself if that's efficient for you, but ultimately there are no conditions to meet results. You don't need to conform and play nice. Enneagram is about delusions at it's core, so fooling yourself some more in order to achieve such a lofty goal seems sensible to me. I don't see how you can do it otherwise without spending almost a life time. I've interacted with old time enneagram enthusiast, they didn't seem significantly more healthy to me.

You made an excellent point before: it's about growth and development. Recognizing your fixations so you can work on overcoming them. And it's supposed to be a long-time development thing: you're not going to fix everything in one massive introspection session.

But you kind of have to "swallow the vitriol" first, understand what your problems are before you can tackle them.
Well, sugar coating the vitriol means gobbling up more of it. You need incentives to go through that effort, personal development for the sake of it seems idiotic to me. If all it is about is fleeing from yourself, from what is written here, you won't reap much benefits. If personality was a coin that you flip each time an event comes up, people want the game to be rigged, the coin to fall constantly on the same side, the one they whole heartedly accept as part of their identity. People are proactive by nature, they want to know what to do, not what to avoid. What I see in this method is an attempt to melt the coin, to level the personality to some kind of blank state.
 
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