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Welcome to the Counsel for Counselors thread :)


There's been some interest in this being started due to individual help threads and having no definite place to talk about our own burdens seriously. Depending on how it's received will determine if it'll be stickied.

This thread is for those that seek help, guidance or kind words and for those that like to give them.
So if either of those are you then welcome!


 

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Great ! thanks oxy. I think before we sticky this - let's see how it goes. Just wanted to add that feel free to vent, seek help in this thread. I know you guys will probably come in here, want to post something, and walk away. But do keep in mind that we're listening and like to listen.

Btw, this thread doesn't mean that new threads for more help/support cannot be created.

I don't speak for everyone, but personally, I'd like to encourage everyone to start by posting anything they want to get off their chest in here. And we'll take it from there :) Let's be open and frank.

Edit: Please don't mistake our help for professional help. We're just normal people like you trying to help each other out as friends would :)
 

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I am loving the picture you added. Thanks for doing this.
 
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Since this idea is relatively new, maybe people who are going to provide this service should have the address of this thread placed on your signature as ways to get people to come here. Just an idea

Good luck, counselors of the counsel. Your help will be greatly appreciated for those in need of an open ear.
 

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I guess I'll break the ice.

It comes off as something that would go in the advice center, but I'd like it to stay here, in the INFJ forum.

I've noticed that there are a lot of people who don't have a grasp of who they are in their lives yet, and see them following me instead of making their own way. When I empathize with them, I feel like there's nothing there. Like their selves are missing from the embodiment they have. I feel that the acquaintances of mine that follow me are hopeless, and I don't know what I can do to help them if they won't make their own way. Attracting these kinds of people, how would one better deal with the problem between empathizing with them and actually helping them?

I've tried helping them in the past and they just took the ride and tried to take a mile. I denied some, who hurt themselves more for depending on me in the first place, and others just acted like leeches without learning anything from the help I've given. The ones that grew are still my friends, actually some of my best friends. I don't know what to do about the others, though. They seem to be in place with others around me and it's really odd to me how they get along yet console in me, risking their stability for what others think I can offer. It's like their insecurities speak, and it's nuts..

Is letting them be really the best thing to do? "Catcher In the Rye" reference says yes, but I would like to hear from you.

Also, is this empathy?

If you were to respond, I would be grateful. If not, that's okay too.
 

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When I empathize with them, I feel like there's nothing there. Like their selves are missing from the embodiment they have. I feel that the acquaintances of mine that follow me are hopeless, and I don't know what I can do to help them if they won't make their own way. Attracting these kinds of people, how would one better deal with the problem between empathizing with them and actually helping them?
It's a situation I've faced with people IRL before. My approach used to be try to make those people aware of what I thought was the cause of their hopelessness. I try to get people to talk and get more involved about themselves. This is not something that helps overnight or in one or two 'lectures'. For me it was tactful art where I would present myself emotionally when needed, and pull away when needed. I hate to call it a game - but having someone's best interests at heart means that sometimes you just have to watch them self-destruct because if you try to prevent that, and that person doesn't experience it - then their natural inclination would be to walk down that path again.

Also, is this empathy?
As for empathy, we can't help but feel the urge and need to sympathize with people in need. But what you can do is weigh that particular situation against a potentially more harmful situation. Not every scenario is the end-of-the-world scenario - and people are far more resilient than we are naturally inclined to give them credit for. Feeling for someone lies at the center of our beings as INFJ's but sometimes being too helpful can be detrimental as well. You just have to follow your intuition and come to the potential outcomes - and try to guide the other person down a path where they can learn and experience for themselves, while also receiving kindness and support - regardless of a good or bad outcome.
 

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Is letting them be really the best thing to do? "Catcher In the Rye" reference says yes, but I would like to hear from you.
"So, tell me about yourself." Maybe that line? I suppose the goal would be is to get them to focus on themselves, even the hurt-y parts. I think the classic therapist line is "And how does that make you feel?"
 

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"So, tell me about yourself." Maybe that line? I suppose the goal would be is to get them to focus on themselves, even the hurt-y parts. I think the classic therapist line is "And how does that make you feel?"
And I think it's just wrong - i got different reactions based on the questions I asked ... or the reactions I gave. I think asking someone "how does that make you feel" ... is pretty useless for certain people. If you've got a friend that you know isn't a feeler (and based on interactions we generally get a good idea) - then I think a better question would be "what do you think happened?", or "what do you think may happen?", and eventually, "well, if you think you do this, then try to imagine what might happen down the road?". If the person seems incapable of seeing the future, then I would paint an elaborate picture of what i think might happen.

We tend to assume that the people in front of us feel about certain things the same way we do - but for a lot of people out there it's not how they feel, but what they think is more important. I just used to let the logic oriented friends dictate the terms of the discussion. And the feeling oriented friends cry if they wanted.
 

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"So, tell me about yourself." Maybe that line? I suppose the goal would be is to get them to focus on themselves, even the hurt-y parts. I think the classic therapist line is "And how does that make you feel?"
I don't know what to say about that. I'm not sure whether it's there to help or hurt, those phrases. I guess I doubt others' trust in me. That's not going to last though, my doubt.

It's a situation I've faced with people IRL before. My approach used to be try to make those people aware of what I thought was the cause of their hopelessness. I try to get people to talk and get more involved about themselves. This is not something that helps overnight or in one or two 'lectures'. For me it was tactful art where I would present myself emotionally when needed, and pull away when needed. I hate to call it a game - but having someone's best interests at heart means that sometimes you just have to watch them self-destruct because if you try to prevent that, and that person doesn't experience it - then their natural inclination would be to walk down that path again.
Strategizing isn't only for games. It's true through reality that we make for ourselves. :\ I guess that is one of the best courses of action, since it's self caused through them..I'll deal with it.


As for empathy, we can't help but feel the urge and need to sympathize with people in need. But what you can do is weigh that particular situation against a potentially more harmful situation. Not every scenario is the end-of-the-world scenario - and people are far more resilient than we are naturally inclined to give them credit for. Feeling for someone lies at the center of our beings as INFJ's but sometimes being too helpful can be detrimental as well. You just have to follow your intuition and come to the potential outcomes - and try to guide the other person down a path where they can learn and experience for themselves, while also receiving kindness and support - regardless of a good or bad outcome.
So then...I should look for the way to help them, without giving too much of myself, or leading down a path of less resistance, but with drive to move on. I think I can do this. :happy:
 
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I don't know what to say about that. I'm not sure whether it's there to help or hurt, those phrases. I guess I doubt others' trust in me. That's not going to last though, my doubt.
It may hurt them if it's not something they want to think about, but I meant it more as a conversation starter on friendly terms, just to get them thinking more about themselves and their own path in life, rather than on always following you. Asking someone what they think is a bit of a self-esteem/ego boost for them ("I'm important enough he cares about my opinion. Wow!"), and it puts the focus on them instead of on you. In a way, you'd be subtly forcing them to look at themselves, by looking at what they really think/feel about things. That all may encourage them to start being more independent, especially if you meet whatever they answer with non-judgemental compassion and interest. Some may resist talking about things like that, either from past bad experiences with expressing their viewpoints or even just an inborn tendency to be the follower. And I should add that the latter type is okay, if you're comfortable as the one being followed. Some people are like that, so consider this-- "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." :happy:
 

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infj's, do you often feel despair and frustration by the lack of people you can connect with? by our inability to convey our deepest feelings and thoughts? by or inability to express ourselfs at work? by our inability to be understood by others? even though we are good at understanding. At times I feel rejected by society. For me, being an INFJ is tough.
 

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infj's, do you often feel despair and frustration by the lack of people you can connect with? by our inability to convey our deepest feelings and thoughts? by or inability to express ourselfs at work? by our inability to be understood by others? even though we are good at understanding. At times I feel rejected by society. For me, being an INFJ is tough.
This is true, but still I like to think that society makes a lot of people, not just INFJs, compromise with themselves in order to maintain group harmony... Perhaps they make sacrifices in order to live their daily lives and to keep food on the table. Most of people have burdens, they just come in different sizes and shapes. A typical burden for INFJs would be a lack of understanding, at least an understanding for our core self -- at least we can make up for it by reaching out to others.

What I like t do is to "push" my intuitive musings into conversations I have with others... Make them shift their perspectives a bit. Hopefully that way they will understand my point of view better.
 

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Here's a question:

Whenever someone says "just think of people who have it worse than you and you'll feel better", do you do what they say but feel even worse?

I'm not sure why this is, but I hate that advice because it never helps me. I end up feeling whiny instead. >.<
 

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infj's, do you often feel despair and frustration by the lack of people you can connect with? by our inability to convey our deepest feelings and thoughts? by or inability to express ourselfs at work? by our inability to be understood by others? even though we are good at understanding. At times I feel rejected by society. For me, being an INFJ is tough.
I don't usually feel too much despair, even though there are few people I relate to on a deep level. I tend to like people easily and appreciate who they are, even if I don't have that much in common with them. I tend to still have some level of empathy and sympathy where I care about the person, want to help them (if need be), and don't mind that we are different. Sometimes, though, I do really wish I had more in-person friends and that all my friends wanted to be as close to me as I want to be with them. I do get frustrated trying to express my deepest feelings and thoughts if it seems there's miscommunication/misunderstanding. That can get really frustrating. However, I have made great strides in expressing myself relatively accurately (at least in writing). I also feel an outsider of society and I feel judgment by people partly for this. However, I try to concentrate on the relationships I do have that I can nurture and on the good I can do for others, even if we are on different wavelengths.
 

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I want to be close to people and have more friends and pursue my hobbies which include interacting with people, however, I always worry about the events and get overloaded pretty quickly. Often events go very well and I'm glad I participated, but it's hard for me to focus on the present and not obsess over events in advance. I also sometimes do have to leave early or start getting run down faster than most people. That is really frustrating because I want to accomplish certain things, and that means human interaction (often face-to-face). It's like I'm fighting myself and trying to overcome myself so I'm not totally avoidant and alone.
 

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We need to put some sort of code at the top of our posts, to tell when we're the counselor or in-need-of-counseling, methinks

I want to be close to people and have more friends and pursue my hobbies which include interacting with people, however, I always worry about the events and get overloaded pretty quickly. Often events go very well and I'm glad I participated, but it's hard for me to focus on the present and not obsess over events in advance. I also sometimes do have to leave early or start getting run down faster than most people. That is really frustrating because I want to accomplish certain things, and that means human interaction (often face-to-face). It's like I'm fighting myself and trying to overcome myself so I'm not totally avoidant and alone.
I run a lot of events for an MMO. I almost have a panic attack every time, with my nerves becoming physically painful. Then at the end of it, I get an ego boost because all of my hard work went into something people really enjoyed. It's like an addiction!

There are also times when the event is going well without me and I zone out. Like when I host storytelling circles, I almost never listen to other people's stories, because I'm so focused on keeping us organized and being the figurehead of the group, I don't have the interest or brain power to listen. I feel kinda bad about it--double standards and all--but it's there.

So, I guess the bottom line is, I know that feeling. It doesn't seem to get better, so I'm not sure what to suggest, except to keep putting yourself out there anyway. Or maybe find a way to get the same level of satisfaction, without the same level of interaction. Less people, different activities, different ways of going about it, things like that.
 

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We need to put some sort of code at the top of our posts, to tell when we're the counselor or in-need-of-counseling, methinks



I run a lot of events for an MMO. I almost have a panic attack every time, with my nerves becoming physically painful. Then at the end of it, I get an ego boost because all of my hard work went into something people really enjoyed. It's like an addiction!

There are also times when the event is going well without me and I zone out. Like when I host storytelling circles, I almost never listen to other people's stories, because I'm so focused on keeping us organized and being the figurehead of the group, I don't have the interest or brain power to listen. I feel kinda bad about it--double standards and all--but it's there.

So, I guess the bottom line is, I know that feeling. It doesn't seem to get better, so I'm not sure what to suggest, except to keep putting yourself out there anyway. Or maybe find a way to get the same level of satisfaction, without the same level of interaction. Less people, different activities, different ways of going about it, things like that.
Thanks, Aizar! Nice to know I'm not alone:)
 

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This is true, but still I like to think that society makes a lot of people, not just INFJs, compromise with themselves in order to maintain group harmony... Perhaps they make sacrifices in order to live their daily lives and to keep food on the table. Most of people have burdens, they just come in different sizes and shapes. A typical burden for INFJs would be a lack of understanding, at least an understanding for our core self -- at least we can make up for it by reaching out to others.

What I like t do is to "push" my intuitive musings into conversations I have with others... Make them shift their perspectives a bit. Hopefully that way they will understand my point of view better.

When i was younger i didnt have a good understanding of myself, but now i am more confident about who i am :)

I am often seen as "weird" or "confusing" though. When i have expressed myself in the past i have been judged negatively, which bothers me. I have lost close friends when i doorslamed them during periods of immense stress. Even though i explained about my depression and inability to explain my feelings to them, i have still been isolated because of the doorslam episode.

You are right that most people have to make compromises for one reason or another. What bothers me is that im surrounded by a mass of people who judge me and who arent willing to understand my POV. When i step out into the world, I dont feel comfortable being myself.
 
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