Personality Cafe banner
21 - 40 of 237 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,584 Posts
I don't think anyone is behind the vaccines or want to cause anyone any harm. But I can understand why some people might fear that, for different reasons. I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories, and I don't believe in those you listed eighter.
We don't have the Lizard thing here in Norway, so that theory is a bit, or it sounds very alien to me. It sounds to me like a sci-fi movie, tbh, written by extremely bored people, or by someone on drugs 😕
Yes you have a great point when it comes to potentionally harmfull consequences. But it kinda goes both ways. If you don't vaxx you could risk unintentionally killing grandma or your weak neighbour, or let the virus upgrade to version 5.0 zombie killer mode which could kill the unvaccinated kids. Is that really better? We, travelers, or gypsies if you like, have our self been victims of cruel experiments from the church, goverment and medical field. But this time around they have apologized and I somewhat trust these people who work now in this day of age, because the evil ones were replaced and the laws changed here. Mostly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,716 Posts
But it kinda goes both ways. If you don't vaxx you could risk unintentionally killing grandma or your weak neighbour, or let the virus upgrade to version 5.0 zombie killer mode which could kill the unvaccinated kids.
But didn't you hear? The vaccine doesn't guarantee immunity since you still have to wear a facemask and keep distance from others.

@BigApplePi Several arguments:
1. Politicians who meet in international summits cluster in big groups and don't keep any of the regulations they preach to the citizens they serve. Note that this happened in the latest G7 summit where the politicians arrived from foreign countries yet didn't isolate for 14 days, instead they endanger their citizens with the virus by getting very close and personal with people from different areas of the globe, some of which have been hit by violent mutations of the virus in the time before the summit.

2. Politicians are clearly unreliable and aim to deceive the public. Here they are without mainstream cameras on them:
883603

And here they are in front of mainstream press suddenly social distancing:
883604


3. Vaccine companies have gained legal immunity from any vaccine fatalities thanks to money poured into lobbying. This money could've easily covered all of the compensation for the fatalities of their products, so if they really aim to cure people instead of injure them, why not offer the compensation?

4. The vaccines are a part of a medical experiment with the vaccinated being willing participants. I as someone who is choosing to not get vaccination am a part of the control group, as any valid medical experiment includes in the study. I am doing medical experts a service by putting my own life on the line by not getting vaccinated, and that is by my own choice.

5. People that want everyone to be vaccinated don't understand the implications of not having a control group in an experiment, thus having no legitimacy in giving medical advice, so I don't listen to them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,584 Posts
But didn't you hear? The vaccine doesn't guarantee immunity since you still have to wear a facemask and keep distance from others.

@BigApplePi Several arguments:
1. Politicians who meet in international summits cluster in big groups and don't keep any of the regulations they preach to the citizens they serve. Note that this happened in the latest G7 summit where the politicians arrived from foreign countries yet didn't isolate for 14 days, instead they endanger their citizens with the virus by getting very close and personal with people from different areas of the globe, some of which have been hit by violent mutations of the virus in the time before the summit.

2. Politicians are clearly unreliable and aim to deceive the public. Here they are without mainstream cameras on them:
View attachment 883603
And here they are in front of mainstream press suddenly social distancing:
View attachment 883604

3. Vaccine companies have gained legal immunity from any vaccine fatalities thanks to money poured into lobbying. This money could've easily covered all of the compensation for the fatalities of their products, so if they really aim to cure people instead of injure them, why not offer the compensation?

4. The vaccines are a part of a medical experiment with the vaccinated being willing participants. I as someone who is choosing to not get vaccination am a part of the control group, as any valid medical experiment includes in the study. I am doing medical experts a service by putting my own life on the line by not getting vaccinated, and that is by my own choice.

5. People that want everyone to be vaccinated don't understand the implications of not having a control group in an experiment, thus having no legitimacy in giving medical advice, so I don't listen to them.
I admit I find your reply yo me here a bit confysing; why do you think wearing a macemask and keeping a distance would prevent you from reaping the fruits from the vaccine, if that is what you meen?
As for your points:
1. Maybe those politians are allready vaccinated and if they are, they don't have to worry about getting close or quarentine. Besides there are plenty of other leaders then them who probably do keep the rules. They could have have distances them selves later to rolemodel for others.
2. This photo could easily be a deepfake.
I don't trust photos as evidence anymore.
3. I don't understand what you are talking about here, is this a national issue for you?
4. Where is the evidence? Even though such things has happend in the past as an exception to the rule - there is little reason to believe it has happend now with so many people. And if you think Chkna caused the virus, why spread it it among them selves in Wuhan? Doesn't make sense to be to be completely honest.
5. Life in it selv is dangerous - we might die from it! Does that meen we should stop living? Would you take the socalled experiment or risk your kids dying from you not trying to save them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigApplePi

·
Registered
Stealth Warship
Joined
·
1,331 Posts
Lol I live in your head rent free.
Yeah I think so, in the back of my mind I was anticipating this happening:

1. Try to be thoughtful and unpatronising.
2. They ask for a source.
3. Have a look around for 10 minutes and find a source, scan through it and present it.
4. They take the discussion onto a parallel track to avoid reading it, ask for another source.
5. Pinch my hand, try to find another source for that.
6. They dismiss that without reading it, start playing semantics.
7. Lose my temper because I'm already only doing this because I haven't got a healthy outlet for my repressed anger.
8. Get banned for calling them a c.
9. They win on a technicality.

For some reason your name bubbled up from my subconscious.

Edit: Oh no it's @mimesis I'm thinking of.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,584 Posts
And when it comes to the G7 summit:
Have I told you about the time I...went to space?
883608

Went to France?
883609

Wisited pyramids?
883614


Saw the Tash Mahal?
883615

Met a tiger?
883616

Me neighter, in fact it never happend.
 

·
Premium Member
INTP (I thimk) 5w
Joined
·
16,523 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I've been vaccinated but lots have not. If you are an anti-vaxer you are not alone. I would like to hear your reasons for not wanted to be vaccinated. Now's your chance. This is an open forum. You are free to express your position here. After that, anyone can comment.
======================

Edit done one day later: I had a long edit but lost it. Will try to reproduce some of it.

Although I favor science I have had a strong emotional reaction to this issue so I'm trying to work it off. I'm surprised and pleased for so many replies as I'm used to reading and hearing only one side of the issue.

This issue is about far more than science when it comes to taking vaccines. Lots of feelings are involved and you are right. It's all about how it is presented. One bad story and that gets the publicity. People remember the bad story and no longer trust the best thing to do.

It reminds me of what I recently read on taking the polio vaccine decades ago. There was a bad reaction to the vaccine. The reaction was worse than polio itself. This got the publicity. What about science? Science would say to take the vaccine and take the risk. It's worth it. The problem is bad publicity. The bad feeling is recalled and not the good reason. Feeling over logic wins out time after time. There are two fixes for this. They are different, separate fixes:

(1) Explain using logic why one behavior is better than the other. This is very difficult as who can follow all that complex reasoning covering so many aspects?
(2) Replace the bad stories generating bad feelings with positive stories generating good feelings adequate to overcome the negative feelings.

If something as serious as Covid is going to risk killing and maiming millions, as it turns out it has, is it worthwhile for governments together with scientific organizations to hire publicists who can get the job done right? In the USA the guy the news people say has the top scientific reputation is Dr. Anthony Fauci. Yet when I first heard him he kept using this word I was not sure what it meant. I finally looked up the word (I forget what it was) and it didn't help much. Just because this guy is sincere and many trust him, I wouldn't hire him alone for the job. Get someone who can tell a story that speaks to feeling. That sells better.
 

·
Premium Member
INTP (I thimk) 5w
Joined
·
16,523 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I posted a belated update to the OP (original post). See #1 or #28 .

Bap, you are the one who is required to state and defend your position.

Which you will not do because you have no argument except "assume I, Bap, am right about everything."
I'll talk to that later as I have some outside obligations, but thanks for asking. My stating a firm position risks being a thread killer. I want to hear what others have to say, not only my own F'g position which I already know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,716 Posts
@Electra that's a cool joke, but all of your answers are half-assed rejections of valid considerations of why I don't want to be injected with an experimental substance that is said to only reduce infections of a virus, yet at the same time is shown by government data to create a higher mortality and sickness rate within recipients.

I'm going out of my way to share my considerations because I want to, I don't owe anybody an explanation for why I want or don't want to be experimented on.

I think @BigApplePi and @Electra should be put to deep sleep 6 feet under the ground since they infect us with germs more when they're alive than dead, what do you have to say in defence? What's your reason of still existing? This is your chance to legitimize your miserable existence, I'm generous for giving it to you so use it well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,584 Posts
@Electra that's a cool joke, but all of your answers are half-assed rejections of valid considerations of why I don't want to be injected with an experimental substance that is said to only reduce infections of a virus, yet at the same time is shown by government data to create a higher mortality and sickness rate within recipients.

I'm going out of my way to share my considerations because I want to, I don't owe anybody an explanation for why I want or don't want to be experimented on.

I think @BigApplePi and @Electra should be put to deep sleep 6 feet under the ground since they infect us with germs more when they're alive than dead, what do you have to say in defence? What's your reason of still existing? This is your chance to legitimize your miserable existence, I'm generous for giving it to you so use it well.
I think think is pretty rude.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,563 Posts
I haven't been vaccinated. I had COVID in January & it almost killed me because I'm old & diabetic. The doctor who saved my life said I have the antibodies for life because the virus stays in us just like HIV. She also treats people who are sick from getting the vaccine. She told me don't get the vaccine. I just heard yesterday people may need a 3rd shot. Will that mean 3 shots a year forever for people who didn't have COVID? If I ever get COVID again I'll see the same doctor & get Hydroxychloroquine. It works great. Last year there was a smear campaign against it (politics) so many doctors wouldn't use it including 2 doctors I saw. The 3rd doctor I saw had to change pharmacies because they refused to fill prescriptions for it. Well, word started getting out that Hydroxychloroquine is VERY effective in treating COVID. The media is starting to lighten up because the truth is coming out. I wonder how many people died because their doctors bought the big lie. My own doctor left me for dead & I wouldn't have lasted 2 more days without seeing the 3rd doctor. I know a lot of people who got the vaccine. I didn't say a word. It's their choice. I'm wondering if government will someday tell me I can't leave my house until I'm vaccinated. They love that kind of power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigApplePi

·
Registered
ISFP
Joined
·
4,353 Posts
Why would anti-vaxers take the anti-vaxer position when they face such a high probability of a bad disease?
Perhaps the disinformation (war/thing/etc) has created a lack in confidence?

First there was the johnson + johnson vaccine which failed. My family in the medical field, refused to give their kids the vaccine, even at the risk of having to wait a whole year for another opportunity. I’ve heard china’s vaccine doesn’t work, not that I would ever take anything from china if I had the choice. I suspect even rumors of these two bad vaccines would generated large amounts of skeptics.

This newer double dosage seems to be effective from what I’ve observed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,406 Posts
I can see the vaccine hesitancy argument, at least from one viewpoint, although I got the vaccine the day they announced my group was eligible for it, actually found out it was not supposed to be until the next day, but they let me in.

I weighed risk/benefit for myself, those close to me and the world and chose a vaccine, only after doing as much research as possible.

The reason I would have hesitancy is I have found out over my life that despite mostly good intentions, the medical community is far from infallible. Watching their early handling of the pandemic is proof of that itself. Plus, I cannot tell you the number of stories I've accumulated from years of hearing of mistakes made by this doctor or that doctor, including regarding my own sister who almost died and her unhealthy condition now is likely due to their boneheaded mistake, missing information for months that can be found easily with google. Throw in that executives at pharmaceutical companies main responsiblity is to make their stock rise, and you tend to not take anything coming from these sources at face value.

The fact that they try to push many other vaccines that's necessity is arguable in the least, and I can understand why some are naturally distrusting when the word is used, although its irrational to lump covid along with these other less dangerous illnesses.

That all being said, I know there are much less rational reasons for people to opt out of all the covid vaccines. But I'll not attempt to venture into those mindsets, or delve into conspiracy theories.

I suppose my main takeaway would be that whether they can pinpoint it exactly, many people are hesitant due to the lack of easy to find, clear, honest information, all the mixed political based information from their "trusted sources" out there, and a subconscious notation that mistakes are possible with the system. So, with that and feeling pushed, they push back as many of us are prone to do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
42,584 Posts
Perhaps the disinformation (war/thing/etc) has created a lack in confidence?

First there was the johnson + johnson vaccine which failed. My family in the medical field, refused to give their kids the vaccine, even at the risk of having to wait a whole year for another opportunity. I’ve heard china’s vaccine doesn’t work, not that I would ever take anything from china if I had the choice. I suspect even rumors of these two bad vaccines would generated large amounts of skeptics.

This newer double dosage seems to be effective from what I’ve observed.
A familymember a nurse, and she also had pfizer, like me. I don't trust Janssen, in some cases it can give blood cloths or simmilar even though it is extremely rare.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
6,699 Posts
Yeah I think so, in the back of my mind I was anticipating this happening:

1. Try to be thoughtful and unpatronising.
2. They ask for a source.
3. Have a look around for 10 minutes and find a source, scan through it and present it.
4. They take the discussion onto a parallel track to avoid reading it, ask for another source.
5. Pinch my hand, try to find another source for that.
6. They dismiss that without reading it, start playing semantics.
7. Lose my temper because I'm already only doing this because I haven't got a healthy outlet for my repressed anger.
8. Get banned for calling them a c.
9. They win on a technicality.

For some reason your name bubbled up from my subconscious.

Edit: Oh no it's @mimesis I'm thinking of.
Haha I think you're mixing up all the various forms of heated discussion you end up having with people.

Personally I never ask for sources. I just like discussing things as ideas (or opposition to ideas).
 
21 - 40 of 237 Posts
Top