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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Bap, you are the one who is required to state and defend your position.

Which you will not do because you have no argument except "assume I, Bap, am right about everything."
Do you know me cuz I don't know you? Your statement is fair even if you sound pissed as I didn't state my position. Some who know me know my position. I have posted here and there. Living in a world with Covid But for those who don't know me ... I accept the challenge.

This thread was inspired by the July 23 2021 cover of "The Week" magazine. It shows anti-vaxers in a packed crowd carrying signs being pushed or stepping off a cliff. The signs say, "Freedom no masks no vaccines, We are not guinea pigs, I call my own shots, Your body your choice, Say no to forced vaccines, i choose natural immunity." Like that. It is supposed to be a joke, a satire, but not really funny. I wanted to know their position.

My general position is I listen for the news from many sources and go with what is said about the odds. That is for me. For others I would say do the best they can to be informed. Everything is on the table.

1. If you don't care for authority, check out the authority. Some are poor or dishonest. Be careful if you imitate them with an unauthoritative position yourself. That is not an argument.
2. If you aren't informed and don't listen to news, you are experiencing lots of normal healthy activity around you and there is no need to do anything. Why should you be forced when that is what you see ... until it is too late.
3. Some people should not take the shots. When I got my 1st shot I had to sit in a chair for half an hour simply because I said "yes" to allergy. I thought it was a joke because I told them I was allergic to poison ivy. Everyone else had to sit only fifteen minutes. This was to check out allergic (bad) reactions. I don't seem to hear about this safety precaution in the news. No wonder people can be afraid.
4. My dad was a physician. I got all the shots. That makes me a brainless conformist I guess.
5. What else? Some people have had a bad reaction to another vaccine. They should have this checked out with their doctor because the Covid vaccines may be different. Why take chances?
6. I have more but typing is difficult as I cut my finger with a saw this AM and it's bandaged.
 

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Charge'n Thru The Night
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Do you know me cuz I don't know you? Your statement is fair even if you sound pissed as I didn't state my position. Some who know me know my position. I have posted here and there. Living in a world with Covid But for those who don't know me ... I accept the challenge.

This thread was inspired by the July 23 2021 cover of "The Week" magazine. It shows anti-vaxers in a packed crowd carrying signs being pushed or stepping off a cliff. The signs say, "Freedom no masks no vaccines, We are not guinea pigs, I call my own shots, Your body your choice, Say no to forced vaccines, i choose natural immunity." Like that. It is supposed to be a joke, a satire, but not really funny. I wanted to know their position.

My general position is I listen for the news from many sources and go with what is said about the odds. That is for me. For others I would say do the best they can to be informed. Everything is on the table.

1. If you don't care for authority, check out the authority. Some are poor or dishonest. Be careful if you imitate them with an unauthoritative position yourself. That is not an argument.
2. If you aren't informed and don't listen to news, you are experiencing lots of normal healthy activity around you and there is no need to do anything. Why should you be forced when that is what you see ... until it is too late.
3. Some people should not take the shots. When I got my 1st shot I had to sit in a chair for half an hour simply because I said "yes" to allergy. I thought it was a joke because I told them I was allergic to poison ivy. Everyone else had to sit only fifteen minutes. This was to check out allergic (bad) reactions. I don't seem to hear about this safety precaution in the news. No wonder people can be afraid.
4. My dad was a physician. I got all the shots. That makes me a brainless conformist guess.
5. What else? Some people have had a bad reaction to another vaccine. They should have this checked out with their doctor because the Covid vaccines may be different. Why take chances?
6. I have more but typing is difficult as I cut my finger with a saw this AM and it's bandaged.
is your finger bandaged because of the covid vaccine?! lol

another reason not to take it !!!!!
 

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But didn't you hear? The vaccine doesn't guarantee immunity since you still have to wear a facemask and keep distance from others.

@BigApplePi Several arguments:
1. Politicians who meet in international summits cluster in big groups and don't keep any of the regulations they preach to the citizens they serve. Note that this happened in the latest G7 summit where the politicians arrived from foreign countries yet didn't isolate for 14 days, instead they endanger their citizens with the virus by getting very close and personal with people from different areas of the globe, some of which have been hit by violent mutations of the virus in the time before the summit.

2. Politicians are clearly unreliable and aim to deceive the public. Here they are without mainstream cameras on them:
View attachment 883603
And here they are in front of mainstream press suddenly social distancing:
View attachment 883604

3. Vaccine companies have gained legal immunity from any vaccine fatalities thanks to money poured into lobbying. This money could've easily covered all of the compensation for the fatalities of their products, so if they really aim to cure people instead of injure them, why not offer the compensation?

4. The vaccines are a part of a medical experiment with the vaccinated being willing participants. I as someone who is choosing to not get vaccination am a part of the control group, as any valid medical experiment includes in the study. I am doing medical experts a service by putting my own life on the line by not getting vaccinated, and that is by my own choice.

5. People that want everyone to be vaccinated don't understand the implications of not having a control group in an experiment, thus having no legitimacy in giving medical advice, so I don't listen to them.
Let me address some of your concerns

1. The vaccine is not 100% effective at providing a sterilizing immunity. What does this mean? it means that some people can develop symptoms. This is not news since the requirement for the vaccine when it was approved was to prevent serious cases or hospitalization. So why are masks still recommended in some places? Well, if there is a lot of virus floating in the population..ie a lot of unvaccinated people, then there is a higher chance for a vaccinated person to get it and get sick.. It is true that they wouldn't get very sick, but you still don't want to get sick.

2. All drugs makers can't be directly sued by consumers.. that's a political issue..if you worry about that, then I suggest you talk to your congressmen and stop taking all medication in the meantime.


3. The trial phase is over man...no steps were skipped to create this vaccine... all clinical trials were conducted with placebo control.. So not sure what you are talking about...


4. I don't make my decision based on politicians' hypocrisy.. if that's the case, I should be trafficking children, and doing cocaine because of Matt Gaetz..
 

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3. The trial phase is over man...no steps were skipped to create this vaccine... all clinical trials were conducted with placebo control.. So not sure what you are talking about...
I've got a letter from the government for an invitation to the medical trials which will require me to update them with my health status every half a year up until 2025. It's not over until then, don't spread misinformation please. There are longterm effects that are yet to be documented and considered.
 

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anti-vaxers in a packed crowd carrying signs
Let me guess - blm weren't "anti-vaxxers" in summer 2020 - because there was no vaccine yet. Did I get your logic right?

If you aren't informed and don't listen to news
News is a corrupted semantic environment, you will not become informed by listening to it. Rather you became engulfed by covid risk apophenia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Let me address some of your concerns

1. The vaccine is not 100% effective at providing a sterilizing immunity. What does this mean? it means that some people can develop symptoms. This is not news since the requirement for the vaccine when it was approved was to prevent serious cases or hospitalization. So why are masks still recommended in some places? Well, if there is a lot of virus floating in the population..ie a lot of unvaccinated people, then there is a higher chance for a vaccinated person to get it and get sick.. It is true that they wouldn't get very sick, but you still don't want to get sick.
I assume the idea is to create anti-bodies to the virus. The more the better and you can fight off the symptoms better. Not 100%, but that's beside the point.

2. All drugs makers can't be directly sued by consumers.. that's a political issue..if you worry about that, then I suggest you talk to your congressmen and stop taking all medication in the meantime.
I say treat drug makers as if they were people. If they are bad, make a fuss. If they are good, give them credit. In general drugs like penicillin have saved an enormous number of lives. But drugs have to be created and tested. This costs money. Watch out for greed though. Most doctors want the well-being of their patients. That doesn't mean some aren't flawed.

3. The trial phase is over man...no steps were skipped to create this vaccine... all clinical trials were conducted with placebo control.. So not sure what you are talking about...
Not sure of your point either.

4. I don't make my decision based on politicians' hypocrisy.. if that's the case, I should be trafficking children, and doing cocaine because of Matt Gaetz..
Too many politicians failed to represent and those that do may represent their own district only.
 
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Let me guess - blm weren't "anti-vaxxers" in summer 2020 - because there was no vaccine yet. Did I get your logic right?


News is a corrupted semantic environment, you will not become informed by listening to it. Rather you became engulfed by covid risk apophenia.
Eeerh, I'd rather say stop listening to corrupt news. Think about it. If you sat an listen to fake news, how would you know...no really, think about it, let it prossess for a bit, before you deny it, please
 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
I think @BigApplePi and @Electra should be put to deep sleep 6 feet under the ground since they infect us with germs more when they're alive than dead, what do you have to say in defence? What's your reason of still existing? This is your chance to legitimize your miserable existence, I'm generous for giving it to you so use it well.
Is this God speaking?


4. The vaccines are a part of a medical experiment with the vaccinated being willing participants. I as someone who is choosing to not get vaccination am a part of the control group, as any valid medical experiment includes in the study. I am doing medical experts a service by putting my own life on the line by not getting vaccinated, and that is by my own choice.
Good for you for volunteering.

I've got a letter from the government for an invitation to the medical trials which will require me to update them with my health status every half a year up until 2025. It's not over until then, don't spread misinformation please. There are longterm effects that are yet to be documented and considered.
How will you react should you get Covid? Will you be sorry?

Let me guess - blm weren't "anti-vaxxers" in summer 2020 - because there was no vaccine yet. Did I get your logic right?
What'd I say? What'd I say? What logic?

News is a corrupted semantic environment, you will not become informed by listening to it. Rather you became engulfed by covid risk apophenia.
How did you react to the fairy tales your mommy read to you as a child?
 
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How long are you anti-vaxxers gonna wait until you consider the vaccine safe then?
I really don't like the idea that the corona virus can not only mutate among the anti-vaxxers but also spread to the children 😟
The Delta variant are most common here now. Which one will be next? I hoped we would soon be finished with this crap! Its true that children have a strong immune system to resist it, but they also might not know all the advice on how to protect them selves, keep distance all the time, hygiene, etc. Shile we wait, the virus just gets stronger. We still haven't been able to cure HIV. What if it merges into some HIV like variant? Wouldn't it be easier to just stop it while we can. Waiting around for this crap makes people even more annoyed them when having to stand in line at the mall.
 

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I've got a letter from the government for an invitation to the medical trials which will require me to update them with my health status every half a year up until 2025. It's not over until then, don't spread misinformation please. There are longterm effects that are yet to be documented and considered.
The vaccine went through all 3 phases of placebo-controlled testing that ALL vaccines went through. no steps were skipped.


Can you show us what the letter looks like? I never received such a letter.

What we know is that the short-term effect of Covid-19 is far far worse than the short-term effect of the vaccine.. I don't think the long-term effect of Covid-19 is any better...

I had a friend who almost had to put on a pacemaker because of Covid-19.. he is 22, and healthy..

If your goal is risk mediation, then your fear is completely illogical.

If Pfizer was a painkiller or some vitamin pill, then I would say that any risk, no matter how small might not be necessary. However, we are comparing the tiny risk of vaccine with the enormous risk of covid-19.. anyone with more than 2 brain cells will know which one they will choose.

You sound like the type of person who would refuse to wear a seatbelt because there is a 1/1000000000000 chance a seatbelt can cause a freak fatal accident.
 

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How long are you anti-vaxxers gonna wait until you consider the vaccine safe then?
I really don't like the idea that the corona virus can not only mutate among the anti-vaxxers but also spread to the children 😟
The Delta variant are most common here now. Which one will be next? I hoped we would soon be finished with this crap! Its true that children have a strong immune system to resist it, but they also might not know all the advice on how to protect them selves, keep distance all the time, hygiene, etc. Shile we wait, the virus just gets stronger. We still haven't been able to cure HIV. What if it merges into some HIV like variant? Wouldn't it be easier to just stop it while we can. Waiting around for this crap makes people even more annoyed them when having to stand in line at the mall.
It will never be long enough.. their belief is never dissuaded by them being wrong.

after 1 year, they would want 2...then 3..then 10..then 40..

I remember one crazy dude saying that in 5 months there will be a lot of people dying from the vaccine..then 5 months later, it was 2 years... Facts and evidence are impervious..they will never have the moment where they go.. OH, I HAVE BEEN WRONG FOR THE LAST 10 TIMES, MAYBE I SHOULD STFU. They will just find another reason to justify their position.

We had MMR vaccine for decades, and they are still whining about it...

all their reasoning is ad hoc ...
 

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I personally believe that people need to have the right to choose to get vaccinated or not..

I think this is a very important freedom..

but at the same time, they must also allow other people to exercise their freedom..

ie insurance should have the freedom to not pay for covid-19 related expenses..etc
 

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I wouldn't call myself an anti-vaxxer, but I've yet to get one. Originally I was wanting to wait for the second(or third, or fourth) generation since it seemed like the first batches were 'rushed'; and information in general being released either changed over time or there is/was conflicting information from different governing bodies. It didn't help either hearing about people getting expired doses; or bad batches that weren't handled properly; or batches that were contaminated from the manufacturing plant etc...

In my country, they have already started developing for variants, so one of the mentalities was why would I get the first gen and not know how well it plays with newer vaccines? I'm assuming that anyone developing next gen vaccines, will be able to take into account the older ones, in order to try and make them as compatible with the least amount of side effects, while hopefully being even more effective.

Now, I'm still kind of undecided. My routine is work>home>work, and I don't really interact with people outside of that. When I run errands, I'm pretty cautious myself so I'm not too worried about catching non-variants; but now that things are starting to open back up, I'm slightly more worried about the loosening of restrictions and others just being stupid with regards to practicing good social distancing/protocols. Like, it's really messed up looking around the world, and even after being vaccinated, countries are going into 4th wave lock downs.

I think the real point of infection for me would be people that I work with that take public transportation, since they'll have more exposure; but I try to keep my distance from even those I work with day to day. It's only a handful of people that I'm routinely within 5 feet of(some of whom have already received vaccines), and even then it's not for too long of a duration so... hopefully we all continue to not be imbeciles outside of work. *Knock on wood*


As far as I know, all of my relatives here have or are about to be fully vaccinated. A couple have asked if I've gotten mine yet, and I just don't respond. Though I suppose that's another reason that I think I should get one. Just so that they're not worrying about me. I assume they want to have respective get togethers too, and if I'm not vaccinated I won't be invited lol.

What I actually find interesting is that way back when, POTUS was saying that they were in contact with the pharmaceutical companies, and that they were confident about vaccines being ready by Dec/Christmas of that year. And it was like, EVERYONE was laughing at them and talking shit like, they were crazy and was an idiot and yadda yadda yadda, why? Because EVERYBODY thought that that timeline was too quick. Low and behold, the vaccines rolled out around that time and yet nobody said shit about it. Nobody went back and said, hey they were right. Everybody just be like oh yea vaccine get it get it get it, like yea, okay.
 
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I wouldn't call myself an anti-vaxxer, but I've yet to get one. Originally I was wanting to wait for the second(or third, or fourth) generation since it seemed like the first batches were 'rushed'; and information in general being released either changed over time or there is/was conflicting information from different governing bodies. It didn't help either hearing about people getting expired doses; or bad batches that weren't handled properly; or batches that were contaminated from the manufacturing plant etc...

In my country, they have already started developing for variants, so one of the mentalities was why would I get the first gen and not know how well it plays with newer vaccines? I'm assuming that anyone developing next gen vaccines, will be able to take into account the older ones, in order to try and make them as compatible with the least amount of side effects, while hopefully being even more effective.

Now, I'm still kind of undecided. My routine is work>home>work, and I don't really interact with people outside of that. When I run errands, I'm pretty cautious myself so I'm not too worried about catching non-variants; but now that things are starting to open back up, I'm slightly more worried about the loosening of restrictions and others just being stupid with regards to practicing good social distancing/protocols. Like, it's really messed up looking around the world, and even after being vaccinated, countries are going into 4th wave lock downs.

I think the real point of infection for me would be people that I work with that take public transportation, since they'll have more exposure; but I try to keep my distance from even those I work with day to day. It's only a handful of people that I'm routinely within 5 feet of(some of whom have already received vaccines), and even then it's not for too long of a duration so... hopefully we all continue to not be imbeciles outside of work. *Knock on wood*


As far as I know, all of my relatives here have or are about to be fully vaccinated. A couple have asked if I've gotten mine yet, and I just don't respond. Though I suppose that's another reason that I think I should get one. Just so that they're not worrying about me. I assume they want to have respective get togethers too, and if I'm not vaccinated I won't be invited lol.

What I actually find interesting is that way back when, POTUS was saying that they were in contact with the pharmaceutical companies, and that they were confident about vaccines being ready by Dec/Christmas of that year. And it was like, EVERYONE was laughing at them and talking shit like, they were crazy and was an idiot and yadda yadda yadda, why? Because EVERYBODY thought that that timeline was too quick. Low and behold, the vaccines rolled out around that time and yet nobody said shit about it. Nobody went back and said, hey they were right. Everybody just be like oh yea vaccine get it get it get it, like yea, okay.
Thank you for thinking so much about others! I hope you stay safe 💝
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Interesting.
I haven't been vaccinated. I had COVID in January & it almost killed me because I'm old & diabetic.
That made you vulnerable.

The doctor who saved my life said I have the antibodies for life because the virus stays in us just like HIV. She also treats people who are sick from getting the vaccine. She told me don't get the vaccine. I just heard yesterday people may need a 3rd shot. Will that mean 3 shots a year forever for people who didn't have COVID?
Not particular for life because those anti-bodies may weaken. That is why there is 3rd shot talk. Weakening. Not proven needed yet I understand. Jury is still out. That's why I need a tetanus shot every ten years.

If I ever get COVID again I'll see the same doctor & get Hydroxychloroquine. It works great. Last year there was a smear campaign against it (politics) so many doctors wouldn't use it including 2 doctors I saw.
This is where I want to see statistical testing. Doctors are not statisticians. As soon as I hear differing doctor's opinions, I want evidence. Last time I heard, hydroxychloroquine was not the drug of 1st choice. Maybe it was good for you though.
 

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Thank you for thinking so much about others! I hope you stay safe 💝
Lol with how this thread has gone, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. Especially, cause I don't personally think of it as me thinking of others in any way lol.
 
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Lol with how this thread has gone, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. Especially, cause I don't personally think of it as me thinking of others in any way lol.
I'm not. I'm just weird. You wear a mask and care about not spreading the disease which I care a lot about because I don't want another mutation but now my battery is dying its only 5 % and the screen went dark, guess that's God's way of telling to get off the couch and go shopping 🙄😏🤭
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
I'd like to see what I would say to these anti-vaxer sign carriers if I used logic. Here's a try:
This thread was inspired by the July 23 2021 cover of "The Week" magazine. It shows anti-vaxers in a packed crowd carrying signs being pushed or stepping off a cliff. The signs say, "Freedom no masks no vaccines, We are not guinea pigs, I call my own shots, Your body your choice, Say no to forced vaccines, i choose natural immunity." Like that. It is supposed to be a joke, a satire, but not really funny. I wanted to know their position.
1. Freedom no masks no vaccines - Freedom is fine but if you spread the virus you are denying other's freedom.
2. We are not guinea pigs - Where did you see that? You aren't being forced, are you?
3. I call my own shots - Who sez you can pick and choose your shots ... say to rob a bank?
4. Your body your choice - Yes your body, but my body doesn't want to catch it from you.
5. Say no to forced vaccines - So far no force, yet if you feel the pressure, you should.
6. I choose natural immunity - Do you have natural immunity to colds? HIV? Smallpox? Death by car accident?
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
I wouldn't call myself an anti-vaxxer, but I've yet to get one. Originally I was wanting to wait ...
I recall there was a big urgency to get a shot. Wife & I were hitting the computer keys to get in line. Took days to get in. Meanwhile those bad things about bad vaccines were in the news. I read that as with all the urgency for successful vaccines they were trying at all costs to make sure bad vaccines didn't get out there. My conclusion was the odds were way in favor of getting a good vaccine.

So you are willing to wait for near certain vaccine protection? I say it's again the odds. I can look down the road both ways four times to make sure no car is coming or I can say, "To hell with it." I want to cross and can't wait.
 
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I recall there was a big urgency to get a shot. Wife & I were hitting the computer keys to get in line. Took days to get in. Meanwhile those bad things about bad vaccines were in the news. I read that as with all the urgency for successful vaccines they were trying at all costs to make sure bad vaccines didn't get out there. My conclusion was the odds were way in favor of getting a good vaccine.

So you are willing to wait for near certain vaccine protection? I say it's again the odds. I can look down the road both ways four times to make sure no car is coming or I can say, "To hell with it." I want to cross and can't wait.
I got my vaccine ASAP.. felt great.. 2 days of arm pain for the first dose...1 day of arm pain for my second dose
 
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