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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I feel shallow for saying this but it is bothering me a lot.

i just got back dinner with some friends and friends' friends. it was more informal, casual, come one, come all kind of gathering. during the dinner, there was a girl next to me. she smelled really bad of BO and wasn't very personally well-groomed. not sure how to describe it.. honestly, i'm okay with messy people or people who have that disheveled look with a beard, messy hair/laid back style, etc, but basically... it bugged me a lot today. i mean i dont put too much into my appearances (except for work), but i always make sure i am at least presentable - tidy, groomed somewhat.. but this girl smelled really bad, and she was just really sloppy- when she was eating, she was devouring the meal- things dripped on MY pants, she made a LOT of noise just eating a hamburger, didn't use utensils when she was picking through the salad to take things out, was literally stuffing things down her mouth and talking with her mouth full and i could see everything. i mean, ive had times where i was so hungry and i gulfed down a meal, but even then, im pretty sure i did the basics like keeping my mouth closed, and chewing before talking, and not getting food all over someone else. ive run into this girl before and something about her always bothered me and i would catch myself before thinking this about her, but she has a staring problem, too. It's not like the intense IxTJ look or the way INFJs or ISTJs observe someone <- with this, you know someone is observing you. but she's always looking at me, while doing something that it REALLY creeps me out. She was eating her burger, and randomly she'd just be eating really sloppy, dripping things everywhere and just looking at me like she was watching TV. It bothers me a lot and I don't know why but I just feel CREEPED out around her. It's not like I feel insecure, that she's "looking through me" but I just feel bugged, because she just looks at me like she's staring at a TV screen. and sometimes I'll be talking to someone and after the entire conversation is over, she'll ask "what do you mean?" and we have to explain things to her step by step, but at one point i just feel like she's not putting any effort to THINK? and she'll get really annoyed and be really rude and treat you like you're really stupid when SHE is the one that couldn't follow the conversation. It's not like she's saying "u know, i heard you mentioning this, can you clarify what you meant by this?" but she's more like "Uh. you said ___ (looks at u like ur an idiot) what do you mean, how is that possible?"

today, i just couldnt deny my feelings about her. she always made me feel uncomfortable but i tried to pretend i wasn't bothered. but today, i realized i was creeped out by her. But right now, i don't even know why i am so creeped out by her. And a part of me is wondering, "what if MY stares come off like this to others?" i mean i know i eat nicely, but what if my stares come off as a creepy thing? im pretty sure they come off as more intense/glare as if im mad at them, but i wondered if people were creeped out by me? i dont know why but this person really bugs me a lot. i feel shallow for saying this because she hasn't done anything wrong to me, but why does it bother me so much? :unsure:
 

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The fact that you were able to pinpoint all the errors in her clothes, eating habits, and general personal hygiene makes me confident that you are decent enough to at least cover these basics on your own. :p

As for the stare, remember that most people are sensors- they might not really notice you looking at them, or there is something else on their minds. Secondly, there is always a lot going on around you in a public place. Enough commotion that nobody really is paying attention to you, unless they purposely begin staring at you. And that's when the creeper alarm goes off and you go back into INFJ default dreamy gaze (or as I like to call it, the INFJ Screen Saver)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
zomboy, i know we don't know each other, but THANK YOU SO MUCH for your post. I know i"m just being irrational and I think I just needed someone to point out the logical parts of the situation. Partially it is because my mother constantly corrects my manners - dress and table. I know I have good manners and dress tidily, but she points out everything and always says how i could be even MORE well dressed and how i should correct this or that, so i think sometimes i get paranoid when i see someone like this person and i think "OMG. what if I come off like that to others? is this what my mom was saying i look like?" and i mentally have a freak out session.

BTW, i like what you say about the INFJ screen saver. :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy: i really really hope that the way i look at someone doesn't come off like a creeper like this person does. After i was around this person today, i couldnt even make eye contact with people - i was just staring at the spaces in between us because i was afraid i would look like the creeper girl
 

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Yeah I get what you're saying. I also sometimes think "what if I come off like this to others?". But like Zomboy has said the reason she is like this is because she hasn't stopped and thought about how she comes through to other people. While you have, so it is highly unlikely. She does sound like a T of some kind of me, this is why she is confident that everything she does is right. She might be INTP btw because I know due to dominant Ti they also keep re-asking me what do I mean. Some of them can take stuff very literally, it is like they have to translate everything that I'm saying to their own manner. At the same time due to inferior Fe, no Te, and no Se there is not a pull on them to conform to social standards or pay much attention to their physical display, so some of them can be a bit eccentric in their manners and appearance. Ok, enough for MBTI analysis :)
 

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today, i just couldnt deny my feelings about her. she always made me feel uncomfortable but i tried to pretend i wasn't bothered. but today, i realized i was creeped out by her. But right now, i don't even know why i am so creeped out by her.
It sounds to me like she has a lack of proper boundaries, so the creep out isn't just from the lack of social graces. This may have more to do with a dysfunctional person than MBTI. Looking at you like a tv screen sounds like you are being depersonalized - I'd be creeped out too. While I like people that are eccentric, when someone sets off my internal gut alarm I listen to it now and avoid the person, keep a distance the best I can.
 

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Whenever someone staring at me in inappropriate way like that, I usually stop doing what I was doing at that time, and stared back in silence at the person and not blinking until he/she stopped staring at me. If they repeated doing the same thing, then I'll keep doing the same thing back. That usually give them a lesson.

And if someone stupid ask me a question to clarify what I was talking about, I clarify back. For example:
Them: "Uh. you said ___ (looks at u like ur an idiot) what do you mean, how is that possible?"
Me: "Do you think it's impossible?"
Them: "Uh, yeah."
Me: "Why so?"

Challenge them to think deeper, do not let them intimidate you with their behavior and stupid questions.

Now, about manner. Well, as an ESTJ, manner is something I considered important, because good manner imo shows how much you respect others, as much as you want to be respected by others. She clearly shows that she does not need to be respected that much.

When someone shows terrible manner at dining table, I usually won't look at them in the eye and avoiding eye contact during the meal. When they ask me why I did that, I said: "Your eating manner disgust me. I have to avoiding seeing you eating and talking at the same time or else I will throw up."

Cruel? Yeah. If a person can't treat me in respectful way, I can't do the same thing to them.

I'm not saying that you should follow my way, as I realize that it would be too extreme for you. My point is, whatever you decided to do, just remember to not let her behaviors intimidates you. Show her that it is not okay for her to treat you that way because it made you uncomfortable. See what happens next. If she continues to behave the same way, than there is no need for you to keep being polite and act like nothing happened.
 

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Sometimes we think people have bad feelings or bad thoughts about us, but what if there is nothing really going on inside them? What if everything is just... void? Perhaps the girl was looking at you exactly the same way she watches TV... :dry:

But I do know how frustrating it can be to sit around the table in company with someone with bad manners. For instance, a friend of mine is into the habit of putting his head on my lap everytime I eat something, just begging for a snack:


If that doesn't work out, he tries to freak me out by his ESFPish death stare:
 

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As for the stare, remember that most people are sensors- they might not really notice you looking at them, or there is something else on their minds.
I hope you don't mean Sensors as in Ss, because those happen to show much more *sensory* intelligence than Ns. An N can stare dreamily, but an S knows where they are looking at all times.



@ OP: You're such a sweet person to feel bad about being disgusted from someone's disgusting behavior :happy:
 
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cute dog! :)
Yeah, he is not of any specific breed, more like a custom version. He is the result of various amorous encounters in back alley streets, resulting in a somewhat exotic appearance. Technically he could be labelled as a "bastard", but I prefer to say he is of the breed "Misto Stradale" (sounds more fashionable Italian, you know...)
 
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I hope you don't mean Sensors as in Ss, because those happen to show much more *sensory* intelligence than Ns. An N can stare dreamily, but an S knows where they are looking at all times.
I meant that they can catch us staring for sure, but unless they really give a damn, it probably won't register longer than five seconds until something more important comes along.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Whenever someone staring at me in inappropriate way like that, I usually stop doing what I was doing at that time, and stared back in silence at the person and not blinking until he/she stopped staring at me. If they repeated doing the same thing, then I'll keep doing the same thing back. That usually give them a lesson.

And if someone stupid ask me a question to clarify what I was talking about, I clarify back. For example:
Them: "Uh. you said ___ (looks at u like ur an idiot) what do you mean, how is that possible?"
Me: "Do you think it's impossible?"
Them: "Uh, yeah."
Me: "Why so?"

Challenge them to think deeper, do not let them intimidate you with their behavior and stupid questions.

Now, about manner. Well, as an ESTJ, manner is something I considered important, because good manner imo shows how much you respect others, as much as you want to be respected by others. She clearly shows that she does not need to be respected that much.

When someone shows terrible manner at dining table, I usually won't look at them in the eye and avoiding eye contact during the meal. When they ask me why I did that, I said: "Your eating manner disgust me. I have to avoiding seeing you eating and talking at the same time or else I will throw up."

Cruel? Yeah. If a person can't treat me in respectful way, I can't do the same thing to them.

I'm not saying that you should follow my way, as I realize that it would be too extreme for you. My point is, whatever you decided to do, just remember to not let her behaviors intimidates you. Show her that it is not okay for her to treat you that way because it made you uncomfortable. See what happens next. If she continues to behave the same way, than there is no need for you to keep being polite and act like nothing happened.
Wicked Queen I think I may need you to get on your broom and fly over here. :crazy:

Yesterday. I refused to look this person in the eye and later on when she tried to make conversation with me, I was really curt with her and I declined her request for help on something. I just said "sorry, I'm leaving." I felt bad about it, but after reading your post, I think mine wasn't as extreme so I feel better now.

So about the staring thing- wow :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy: There have been times when someone stared at me, I saw them, stared back maybe gave them a dirty look and go back to my thing. But yeah maybe I should do what you were saying... cause now that i think about it, i'm just backing down and letting them intimidate me huh?
 

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And if someone stupid ask me a question to clarify what I was talking about, I clarify back. For example:
Them: "Uh. you said ___ (looks at u like ur an idiot) what do you mean, how is that possible?"
Me: "Do you think it's impossible?"
Them: "Uh, yeah."
Me: "Why so?"

hahahaha, my ESTJ coach teaches high school, and he does this all the time with his students. absolutely hilarious and completely abolishes the problem.
 
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I've never been around anyone that eats like that. It sounds like she has a mental disability, which wouldn't really relate to type.

As for the INFJ stare, it's probably the least creepy of all of the types.

Yeah I get what you're saying. I also sometimes think "what if I come off like this to others?". But like Zomboy has said the reason she is like this is because she hasn't stopped and thought about how she comes through to other people. While you have, so it is highly unlikely. She does sound like a T of some kind of me, this is why she is confident that everything she does is right. She might be INTP btw because I know due to dominant Ti they also keep re-asking me what do I mean. Some of them can take stuff very literally, it is like they have to translate everything that I'm saying to their own manner. At the same time due to inferior Fe, no Te, and no Se there is not a pull on them to conform to social standards or pay much attention to their physical display, so some of them can be a bit eccentric in their manners and appearance. Ok, enough for MBTI analysis :)
Jeez, you really don't like INTPs, do you?

I don't think bad grooming habits have to do with not caring about conforming or something like that, it's just that they aren't aware that it matters. I only took a shower once every other day in highschool, because no one said anything to me. But when I moved away, I was made aware (told) and I started paying attention to my grooming more once I realized the effect it had on other people. I think my grooming is pretty comprehensive now and is probably better then most people.

I think the example in the OP could only be done with Te Fi. Te only cares about what gets the job done, and lacking Fe would cause the person to not pay as much attention to other people's reactions. Needing to be walked through step by step makes me think of an ISTJ.

Heh, that reminds me. One of my professors is a major slob, kind of like this, and she's an ISTJ. I think she only showers once a week at the most, and always has dandruff on the back of her shirt. The other day my partner and I were asking her to explain something, and she wiped her nose with her hand and left the snot on her hand while she continued to explain the problem to us.
 

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Jeez, you really don't like INTPs, do you?

I don't think bad grooming habits have to do with not caring about conforming or something like that, it's just that they aren't aware that it matters.
....
I think the example in the OP could only be done with Te Fi. Te only cares about what gets the job done, and lacking Fe would cause the person to not pay as much attention to other people's reactions.
I just noticed that from a small sample of INTPs I have known they don't seem to be concerned with appearance much and can even disregard their hygiene. ENxPs can be quite sloppy too. To the contrary all of the ESTPs and ESTJs I've seen so far do pay attention to their appearance and try to project well-groomed and a more powerful image to the world. But I don't see the reason for Ne-Ti or Ne-Fi mindset to get concerned with this.
 

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I've noticed some ENTPs say something like "I started dressing better, cue the glitter, I'm coming out." That's usually said around 18-20, about the same time they should start to develop Fe. I think that's what it is. An ENTP will probably dress based on what type of reaction they want. An INTP might dress in a way to avoid negative attention, as long as they're aware of it, but they might need to be told, a few times. I think that has to do with the inferior function seeming to be the most tender or sensitive function, and people usually prefer to avoid using their inferior function.

ESTJs are more situational. For example, an ESTJ might fart, without remorse, when he's around his immediate family, but he won't ever do that in public. The same goes for how they dress, because they will base it on what works for the situation because of Te. I think an ISTJ is more likely to do what was written by the OP, just because they'll care less about the social ramifications, especially if they don't view it as being one of their duties. If it's not considered one of their duties, then it's pretty much irrelevant, from their point of view.

I've noticed INFPs usually dress pretty stylishly, and seem to care about their appearance. ENFPs might be a little more loose, but they still try to be stylish, in some way.
 

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What if the girl is homeless or something, and she feels depressed? Or what if shes feeling jealous towards you, and feels bad about it and tries to suppress the feeling, which causes her to behave like that?
 

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maybe we forget how privileged we are to have plenty of food to eat and a place to live, or a cultured upbringing, or whatever? i don't judge someone who may not have that privilege, i feel really bad for them and want to help.

it sounds like she was at a point of economic hardship in her life.

and it's not common knowledge, but body odor isn't always related to bad hygiene or hot weather/exercise. people can't always help how they smell, because body odor sometimes is difficult to get rid of until the medical condition behind it is resolved. there are endocrine system imbalances, complications of diabetes, kidney failure, psychiatric conditions, medications for psychiatric conditions, even certain dietary habits (that's not a complete list) that result in odor or excess sweating, etc. if she didn't have access to medical treatment or no money for it, there's not a whole lot she could do about it. and my guess would be that if someone is aware they smell and has the resources available to do something about it, they're trying whatever they can to resolve it and haven't found anything that works yet. i'm sure they don't enjoy having body odor - or having to deal with people's response to it - any more than other people enjoy smelling it ~ and i don't want to make life more difficult for them by not being understanding.

stares creep me out if they're overtly perverted or if there is evil or threat sensed in the eyes looking at me. otherwise i just stare back (lol) so that leads to these impromptu staring contests with random people after which i leave wondering what on earth just happened. xD

i think our piercing stares do make people feel like we can see through them, and that can make people uncomfortable. for instance, my dad is the sort of person it is very difficult to intimidate (ESTJ type 8) but even he gets intimidated by my piercing stares and has told me he doesn't like when i look through him and into the depths of his soul like that. before he said anything, i didn't know my stare even looked that way.

the problem is, it's hard to stop because we are unaware of it - we seem to wear those stares most often when we are lost in thought, so they are sending the wrong message, since we probably aren't even thinking about the person (at whom our eyes are directed) at all. not sure if "creepy" would describe it, but probably "overly invasive," or - depending on the recipient's response to it - "scary" would. since we don't always realize how our stares look or are felt by others, i'm guessing a lot of other people don't realize how their stares look/make others feel either.
 

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zomboy, i know we don't know each other, but THANK YOU SO MUCH for your post. I know i"m just being irrational and I think I just needed someone to point out the logical parts of the situation.
I don't actually think you are being irrational - it genuinely bothers me when people have that little self-awareness as to how they are speaking to and behaving towards others. It bothers me, primarily I think, because I am usually very slow to be utterly direct with people... I will drop hints to get a message across unless I'm really angry, and you cannot trust someone this oblivious to understand such messages, if for instance they are making you uncomfortable or harming you in some way. So I keep my distance from them for safety.

This girl, though... it sounds like she's in a league of her own, and while reading your post I actually wondered if she might be on the autistic spectrum. It would certainly explain some of her odd behaviour and general obliviousness to other people's impressions/feelings. My sister is on the autistic spectrum also, and while she's an incredibly sweet girl who will take advice or suggestions on board if you point out directly that something she has said or done is offensive, she does things that others find offputting all the time.

And you know, there's nothing wrong with listening to your instincts about someone. There have been a number of such people in my life, who make me uncomfortable or wary. Sometimes through no fault of their own. There was one girl at school, for instance, who had absolutely no concept of boundaries (they are a BIG deal to me), and would often conduct conversations with her stomach actually touching mine, she was so close. If I backed away, she would follow, and the cycle would continue. I actually severed contact with her because of it, because there was no point in trying to articulate this to her. She was a nice girl, and it wasn't her *fault* that she creeped me out per se, ​but that didn't obligate me to interact with someone who made me feel deeply uneasy. So, you know, it's OK to just listen to your gut on this one, even if you can't put a finger on exactly what it is about her that gives you the creeps.
 
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