Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just dropping by to see if any of you are interested in crypto. I caught the fever a month ago and have been investing in those markets.

I got a tip for this coin Dadi, a decentralized cloud services platform that takes advantage of blockchain technology. Cloud platforms are quite popular at the moment, if any of you follow tech, so the market for a coin like this is quite expansive. The ICO opens on January 22, so if you're interested in getting in on the ground floor for what could be a whale, I have this for you:

https://dadi.cloud/r/u74wlsdun0

I'ts a referral code. If you sign up, I get 0.1 ETH, and you get your own referral code.

So yeah! Just a sales pitch, but I believe in this, and thought some of you ENTrePreneurs would like to do something entrepreneurial.

If this is against any rules, sorry, I'll stop talking about it. Just thought I'd share.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,442 Posts
they're just bubbles dude. I think anyone who wants to invest in crypto currency and doesn't realize it's just a bubble w/ zero long term potential must have not taken or failed intro macroeconomics.

if you want me to explain some basic economics I can
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I'm not telling you to stay in for life. There's max a few years of life in this thing. But the money is real, and it's hot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,442 Posts
I'm not telling you to stay in for life. There's max a few years of life in this thing. But the money is real, and it's hot.
you can also make money betting on sports but its a gamble and not a reliable investment

no legitimate business is ever going to use crypto currency, at least not one w/o a central bank, the only people w/ an incentive to use it are people using it for illegal endeavors, such as selling drugs, child porn, weapons online. In addition to the black market the bubbles driven by people who don't understand the relationship between money supply and inflation rate and why it's therefore important for currencies to have a central bank and ignorantly think crypto-currency is "giving it to the man", when all they're doing is supporting a currency that will never be used for selling much more than illegal things like drugs and child porn online and they're creating a bubble that is bound to burst either as a result of running out of people who are ignorant of economics who will continue to inflate it and/or due to crack down on online black markets. ( I don't know how much of a online black market there is, that's what i think initally fueled it, it may just be mostly hot air now.)

I mean sure you might make money on it, but there's probably wiser and more ethically sound things to bet on.

also personally bitcoin really annoys me because people's ignorance of economics annoys me .. and if people weren't ignorant then the bitcoin bubble wouldn't exist.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,281 Posts
Careful Crispy Crypto!

The last time bitcoin fell through all I seen was a bunch of dudes
trying to find actual establishments to get back their money.
Sad sight really. Bunch of guys sitting on a curb in front of a
supposed Bitcoin Bank in tears wondering where the heck there
money is. The sign on the door was hand written "Closed" .
As it turns out the guy running that specific server ...vanished..
and the money was gone. Who could have guessed? O wait. Anyone with
common sense.

That said seems like you are in it for a side project so have some fun with it!
If any type kind find a loop hole I can surmise ENTP would be that type.

Just make sure you cash in on a regular. When it falls through again you
have little to lose.

I have no qualms with the moral implications. People choose to buy drugs. People
choose to advocate certain lifestyles. That wont change no matter what mediums
we have available. History shows us this. You cant take the human out of the human.


Fuck, I pay taxes to a liberal government I abhor. I might as well call myself out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
you can also make money betting on sports but its a gamble and not a reliable investment

no legitimate business is ever going to use crypto currency, at least not one w/o a central bank, the only people w/ an incentive to use it are people using it for illegal endeavors, such as selling drugs, child porn, weapons online. In addition to the black market the bubbles driven by people who don't understand the relationship between money supply and inflation rate and why it's therefore important for currencies to have a central bank and ignorantly think crypto-currency is "giving it to the man", when all they're doing is supporting a currency that will never be used for selling much more than illegal things like drugs and child porn online and they're creating a bubble that is bound to burst either as a result of running out of people who are ignorant of economics who will continue to inflate it and/or due to crack down on online black markets. ( I don't know how much of a online black market there is, that's what i think initally fueled it, it may just be mostly hot air now.)

I mean sure you might make money on it, but there's probably wiser and more ethically sound things to bet on.

also personally bitcoin really annoys me because people's ignorance of economics annoys me .. and if people weren't ignorant then the bitcoin bubble wouldn't exist.
Well, early adoption is tough. There's no universally recognized infrastructure for crypto exchanges and I can see how that can scare some people. I'm sure that child porn and drugs are moved all the time with crypto. I'm also sure that child porn and drugs are moved a million times over with fiat. The association is in your head. The interest alone in crypto currencies will drive the creation of new exchange mediums. At the moment it's mostly a store of value. But to say it will be like this forever would be like saying we stop at the model T.

The volatile nature of crypto makes the majority of the coins a short term investment at best, but I'm willing to bet you're going to see a few of this stick around well past your retirement. During my time trading these, I've seen multiple coins double, triple, even 10-20x their value. Some of the earliest adopters I've talked to have portfolios in the millions. It is a high risk investment. Sure, I'll say that. But it's an extremely bullish market that got so oversaturated that the largest exchanges are either backlogged or they closed off registrations for new investors. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's interest, the coin has a value. And there's a few hundred trillion dollars worth of interest at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Careful Crispy Crypto!

The last time bitcoin fell through all I seen was a bunch of dudes
trying to find actual establishments to get back their money.
Sad sight really. Bunch of guys sitting on a curb in front of a
supposed Bitcoin Bank in tears wondering where the heck there
money is. The sign on the door was hand written "Closed" .
As it turns out the guy running that specific server ...vanished..
and the money was gone. Who could have guessed? O wait. Anyone with
common sense.

That said seems like you are in it for a side project so have some fun with it!
If any type kind find a loop hole I can surmise ENTP would be that type.

Just make sure you cash in on a regular. When it falls through again you
have little to lose.

I have no qualms with the moral implications. People choose to buy drugs. People
choose to advocate certain lifestyles. That wont change no matter what mediums
we have available. History shows us this. You cant take the human out of the human.


Fuck, I pay taxes to a liberal government I abhor. I might as well call myself out.
Thanks for the warning FBE, but I understand the risks. The money I put into it is already gone as far as I'm concerned. But while it's gone, I don't mind that it doubled. There are multiple exchanges now for crypto to fiat, so if one goes down there's others to pick up the slack.

I have lofty goals for myself in this. If I play my cards right, I'll be set for life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,442 Posts
Well, early adoption is tough. There's no universally recognized infrastructure for crypto exchanges and I can see how that can scare some people. I'm sure that child porn and drugs are moved all the time with crypto. I'm also sure that child porn and drugs are moved a million times over with fiat. The association is in your head. The interest alone in crypto currencies will drive the creation of new exchange mediums. At the moment it's mostly a store of value. But to say it will be like this forever would be like saying we stop at the model T.

The volatile nature of crypto makes the majority of the coins a short term investment at best, but I'm willing to bet you're going to see a few of this stick around well past your retirement. During my time trading these, I've seen multiple coins double, triple, even 10-20x their value. Some of the earliest adopters I've talked to have portfolios in the millions. It is a high risk investment. Sure, I'll say that. But it's an extremely bullish market that got so oversaturated that the largest exchanges are either backlogged or they closed off registrations for new investors. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's interest, the coin has a value. And there's a few hundred trillion dollars worth of interest at the moment.
nah you're missing an understanding of some basic economics

The money supply of a currency is directly related to it's inflation rate.

If within a period of time you have Q products exchange at an average price of P and there is a quantity of M of the currency being exchanged (money supply), then that currency will need to be exchanged and circulated at rate of V (money velocity).

PQ=MV

This equation is an identity ( I think that's the word for it), the variables in it are defined by this equation, so this equation is always going to be equal.

So for example in order for the quantity of goods being exchanged in a market to grow (economic growth= Q increasing), then either the money supply needs to increase (M), the money velocity(V) needs to increase (aka people need to circulate currency quicker), and/or prices (P) need to drop such that this equation remains equal

Q=MV/P

From this equation we can see that increase in the money supply drives prices upward. ( it also drive economic growth Q upwards, and money velocity V down)

M= PQ/V

That makes sense. If you increase the money supply quickly then in the short term the supply of goods won't increase (takes time to manufacture goods) but suppliers will be able to instantly increase prices, and since people have money currency in their hands will be able to pay more.

If the money supply increases super fast then the currency hyperinflation occurs, inwhich prices are increasing so quickly that it makes the currency useless as a medium of exchange and people stop using the currency.

Similar any rapid change int he quantity of goods being exchanged or velocity could cause hyper inflation or erratic infaltion that would make the currency useless as a medium of exchange and stop people from using the currency. Prices need to be stable in order for people to know what to charge others and not feel they've been ripped and thereby be willing to accept the currency in exchange for goods.

Businesses also want to operate int he currency that has the lowest and most stable inflation. Businesses lose money as a result of inflation. If you made $100 for selling a good and the next day that $100 could only buy as much as $95 would buy the day before and you could have sold that item for $105 today, then it's like you lost $10 by selling that item yesterday instead of today... and if the currency is continuously inflating then you're always losing profits as a result of inflation. So businesses try to operate in the currency with lowest as well as most stable infaltion rate. ....which is why no legitimate business has any incentive to operate in a currency without a central bank.

A central bank (which is what the federal reserve is called in economics and other countries) main purpose ( or one of their main purposes) is to maintain a stable inflation rate for their currency. They do this by by buying a selling bonds. The sale of bonds removes currency from the market, and the repayment of bonds injects currency into the market. (spending and taxes by the Fed government can also be considered injection and removal of currency from the market.

Without a central back adding and removing currency , there is nothing keeping the inflation rate of that currency in check and it can easily hyper inflate and fluctuate rapidly and erratically which would infterfer with its ability to be used for exchange. Thus bitcoin doesn't make sense for anyone to use as a medium of exchange because it doesn't have anything controlling and stabilizing its money supply. The money supply of bitcoin increases at a random rate as people mine and create more of it. There is no central bank adjusting the money supply and thereby making it a useful medium of exchange. If there was then it could work and businesses might use it, but maybe not because there's still not much of an incentive to businesses, and not having a central bank is part of the appeal to the uneducated people investing in it.

The only businesses that really have any incentive to use bitcoin are illegal businesses because unlike all other currencies and money exchanges online that have a paper trail, bitcoin allows for annonymous exchange of currency online, so it allows for the anonymous sale of goods over internet, which allows for selling illegal items, evading taxes, and money laundering.

What I described above about PQ=MV isn't advances economics. I learned it in a highschool intro econ class. Anyone who took economics should know that stuff. When you turn on money tv stations all the talking heads seem to me to be in agreement that bitcoin is nothing more than a speculative bubble w/ no substance, and how its interesting to watch and perhaps a chance to make some money, but I don't think any economists thinks it'll actually work as a medium of exchange w/o a central bank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
nah you're missing an understanding of some basic economics

The money supply of a currency is directly related to it's inflation rate.

If within a period of time you have Q products exchange at an average price of P and there is a quantity of M of the currency being exchanged (money supply), then that currency will need to be exchanged and circulated at rate of V (money velocity).

PQ=MV

This equation is an identity ( I think that's the word for it), the variables in it are defined by this equation, so this equation is always going to be equal.

So for example in order for the quantity of goods being exchanged in a market to grow (economic growth= Q increasing), then either the money supply needs to increase (M), the money velocity(V) needs to increase (aka people need to circulate currency quicker), and/or prices (P) need to drop such that this equation remains equal

Q=MV/P

From this equation we can see that increase in the money supply drives prices upward. ( it also drive economic growth Q upwards, and money velocity V down)

M= PQ/V

That makes sense. If you increase the money supply quickly then in the short term the supply of goods won't increase (takes time to manufacture goods) but suppliers will be able to instantly increase prices, and since people have money currency in their hands will be able to pay more.

If the money supply increases super fast then the currency hyperinflation occurs, inwhich prices are increasing so quickly that it makes the currency useless as a medium of exchange and people stop using the currency.

Similar any rapid change int he quantity of goods being exchanged or velocity could cause hyper inflation or erratic infaltion that would make the currency useless as a medium of exchange and stop people from using the currency. Prices need to be stable in order for people to know what to charge others and not feel they've been ripped and thereby be willing to accept the currency in exchange for goods.

Businesses also want to operate int he currency that has the lowest and most stable inflation. Businesses lose money as a result of inflation. If you made $100 for selling a good and the next day that $100 could only buy as much as $95 would buy the day before and you could have sold that item for $105 today, then it's like you lost $10 by selling that item yesterday instead of today... and if the currency is continuously inflating then you're always losing profits as a result of inflation. So businesses try to operate in the currency with lowest as well as most stable infaltion rate. ....which is why no legitimate business has any incentive to operate in a currency without a central bank.

A central bank (which is what the federal reserve is called in economics and other countries) main purpose ( or one of their main purposes) is to maintain a stable inflation rate for their currency. They do this by by buying a selling bonds. The sale of bonds removes currency from the market, and the repayment of bonds injects currency into the market. (spending and taxes by the Fed government can also be considered injection and removal of currency from the market.

Without a central back adding and removing currency , there is nothing keeping the inflation rate of that currency in check and it can easily hyper inflate and fluctuate rapidly and erratically which would infterfer with its ability to be used for exchange. Thus bitcoin doesn't make sense for anyone to use as a medium of exchange because it doesn't have anything controlling and stabilizing its money supply. The money supply of bitcoin increases at a random rate as people mine and create more of it. There is no central bank adjusting the money supply and thereby making it a useful medium of exchange. If there was then it could work and businesses might use it, but maybe not because there's still not much of an incentive to businesses, and not having a central bank is part of the appeal to the uneducated people investing in it.

The only businesses that really have any incentive to use bitcoin are illegal businesses because unlike all other currencies and money exchanges online that have a paper trail, bitcoin allows for annonymous exchange of currency online, so it allows for the anonymous sale of goods over internet, which allows for selling illegal items, evading taxes, and money laundering.

What I described above about PQ=MV isn't advances economics. I learned it in a highschool intro econ class. Anyone who took economics should know that stuff. When you turn on money tv stations all the talking heads seem to me to be in agreement that bitcoin is nothing more than a speculative bubble w/ no substance, and how its interesting to watch and perhaps a chance to make some money, but I don't think any economists thinks it'll actually work as a medium of exchange w/o a central bank.
Alright, you win.

Edit:

Look, I know what I know, and you know what you know. I'm going to make some money in a volatile bull market. You can stay in less volatile investments. Either way, it's not going to be volatile forever.

And bitcoin isn't going to be the main exchange medium forever. 21,000,000 total coin supply is why it rose so quickly. It will probably be replaced by a crypto with a higher coin supply. But not being against the devaluation of your currency is ridiculous. Every time more money is thrown into circulation, you earn less money. I learned that in high school too. Circumventing deflation isn't immoral.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,281 Posts
Thanks for the warning FBE, but I understand the risks. The money I put into it is already gone as far as I'm concerned. But while it's gone, I don't mind that it doubled. There are multiple exchanges now for crypto to fiat, so if one goes down there's others to pick up the slack.

I have lofty goals for myself in this. If I play my cards right, I'll be set for life.
Sounds fun. My extra money goes to MTG and other stuff that has no possible long term return to
it so you got me beat!

Well some MTG cards have great return but my two boys will be getting all that stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Sounds fun. My extra money goes to MTG and other stuff that has no possible long term return to
it so you got me beat!

Well some MTG cards have great return but my two boys will be getting all that stuff.
Oh yeah, I used to play that all the time. My favorite deck was a discard/control deck; I'd basically remove my opponents options the entire game and whittle their life away by applying rules to having no cards. My friends hated playing against me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,442 Posts
Alright, you win.

Edit:

Look, I know what I know, and you know what you know. I'm going to make some money in a volatile bull market. You can stay in less volatile investments. Either way, it's not going to be volatile forever.

And bitcoin isn't going to be the main exchange medium forever. 21,000,000 total coin supply is why it rose so quickly. It will probably be replaced by a crypto with a higher coin supply. But not being against the devaluation of your currency is ridiculous. Every time more money is thrown into circulation, you earn less money. I learned that in high school too. Circumventing deflation isn't immoral.
i was hesitant about writing a lot or even replying to anything here, but this is a topic that really irks me... I'm passionate about economics and its annoys me that so many people are ignorant about it ... i feel like i'm about this topic similar to how a biologist would feel compelled to reply and go off if someone was saying stuff against evolution existing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
No where liquid enough for me which means it would be really easy to manipulate for those with any control. More money to make by creating your own currency. Yeah, would probably never get big, you just need to rope in a few people. Pyramid schemes are proven earners. Interesting today how cheap and easy it would be.

Hmmm, now I'm interested. Create some similar scheme for creating currency, easy enough. Then give away currency options in some scheme that was not simple, but not hard and played on the limited popular knowledge. Say an app that ran on phones that generated currency. Maybe that's the hook..."no longer have to buy and run lots of machines" bs. The options can't be cashed for several months. Enough time to go viral. If it does you stop giving away the app and start selling it cheap. Increase the price each day or two...feed the frenzy. When the options start maturing the option owners can deal with each other to try to sell...not your fault it isn't liquid. And you didn't sell any currency (shares), you just sold tools. Out with the app sales and not involved in the pyramid scheme. That would fly.

Who's in?

Second app I ever wrote was for a pyramid scheme company, on an Apple II. It was pretty funny. These guys did it for a living, just creating the framework for others to implement their scheme. That's how they stayed out of jail. Had a print magazine even. They mainly just sold crap products to try and make the schemes get in under the illegal wire. This was in snail mail days. When a scheme took off they'd have trashcans full of letters with cash and checks coming in. It was slow because the accounting wasn't easy, all by hand. If a scheme did well they'd have so much in coming they couldn't process and pay off people who would get pissed, think they were ripped off and call the state AG who came knocking and people were off to jail. With a simple Apple II app all flowed smooth.

Always loved schemes. Today - super easy and very safe.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,281 Posts
Oh yeah, I used to play that all the time. My favorite deck was a discard/control deck; I'd basically remove my opponents options the entire game and whittle their life away by applying rules to having no cards. My friends hated playing against me.
Ahhhh yes a discard/control deck.
My fav colours are black and blue as well. Must be an ENTP
thing. Trickery for the win.

I am assuming you ran The Rack ...I have such a deck.

PerC-Rack.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
I invested in bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin in equal amounts in March of of 2017 so I made pretty decent amount off of that.

I recently invested in FunFair early December which went up 5x in a month, so that was nice.

It seems like crypto speculation is sort of a gold rush right now. I started seeing so much hype for bitcoin last year that it was just so obvious that the price was going to skyrocket. You can do similar things with other currencies. Any time they get some hype, they will probably go up, at least for awhile.

It's all just commodity type speculation so it's risky but seems a lot easier than trying to speculate on commodities like gold, silver, or stocks because of the hype surrounding crypto currencies right now. I would guess based on other hypes I've seen in the past couple of decades that the hype will eventually die down and the volatility will be much lower but I really don't think digital currencies are going anywhere in general and will probably overtake fiat currencies due to the trend towards mobile devices and paying with mobile devices and ease of transferring between currencies. In countries that are just now developing, most transactions are with mobile devices and everyone is hooked to their cell phones all over the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,543 Posts
Invest 1k into some cryptos, wait 30 years, free retirement found.

You get 0.1ETH and u can withdraw it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
How are you planning to be set for life? Are you planning on just making hundreds of millions or have some investment plans once you leave the crypto market?
I'd hate to resurrect a dead thread, but to address this question, I plan on making an excess of money playing the low market cap coins. After I get enough capital, I will remove my initial investment of 5k; enough capital meaning where the 5k will not have a major impact on potential gains in the market.

After I make enough money, not sure what is realistic yet so I don't have a solid number on "enough," I will withdraw in portions to first: pay off my debts, second: accrue assets that generate passive income. Rental properties for one, possibly government bonds, things that are unlikely to default.

And for any of you following the news around this, I understand why one would be hesitant to enter the market. I went up to 15k, dropped to 4k, and am currently at 10k. The swings are real, and they can be tough. I'm estimating one more big dip, possibly in the 6k-8k range before Bitcoin makes a bull run. But corrections are common in all marketplaces. The fact that futures trading exists on BTC should be enough to demonstrate a legitimacy to cryptocurrency. I for one am interested to see what happens when the Dow Jone, S&P 500, and Nasdaq face a price correction. In the past, stock market speculation hasn't had an impact on the value of the crypto market; I think that money will move towards the crypto market once the stock market faces a correction.

If any of you are interested, check the price around the 26th of Jan. The CME futures contracts for BTC are settling then. CBOE futures contracts settled mid Jan with majority in short position. It tanked the price of BTC. These next contracts I'm anticipating will tank the price again, after which point BTC will begin to move to another all time high. I pulled the bulk of my money out to purchase at this next low. NASDAQ is also launching its own BTC futures as well.

Adoption by professional speculators is not a sign of weakness in the market. So for those of you who believe this is the end for the crypto market, I say we're far from it.

But like people here said already, it's a high risk game. I would call it a high risk/high reward game. But if you navigate the market correctly, there's still alot of money to be made.
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top