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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it I mean who am I to judge anyone’s life style ? It’s not much of feeling secure or not trusting the individual but I think that action would automatically turns me off .


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This is dumb. Woman in some itsy bitsy flaming hot bikini is sending more "come hither" vibes than a woman who goes topless for not wanting tan lines or whatever. Like, I used to see that a lot on beaches & it was normal it was not to be seen as a sexual thing.
I disagree. Unless she's wearing it in places that are not near bodies of water, meaning she's actively seeking for sexual and non-sexual attention, that she will be able to leverage for things she want.
On a scale of "come hitherness" to reasonable clothing : nakedness, topless, full bikini/underwear, short skirt & crop tops/split&revealing dress, body swimsuit, normally covering clothes, muslim most extreme veils.

And by your logic, women will get approached anyway so it makes 0 difference if they are topless or not.
The more someone is on the left of that scale above, the more the wearer's intentions will be interpreted as a come hither, whether those are her true intentions or not, and the less she has done what she could do to be left in peace. The more she is on the right of that scale, the less attention she will receive, and the more she has done what she can do to be left alone. At no point am I saying that the attention will completely disappear, because it will not, so the argument saying "well the attention doesn't drop to 0 so what's the point" is at best missing the point and at worst completely idiotic, either way it's useless. The attention can be mitigated, and being dressed more modestly DOES mitigate the amount of attention women receive, whether you see it or not. But you guys receive so much attention anyway that even when it dips it's still too much to humanly manage and you don't see the difference.

I was gonna go on a bigger rant, but I'll keep it simple : you may think it makes 0 difference, but you're not your partner. As someone who will be in someone's partner seat, I'd rather be with a girl who wears her full bikini in front of strangers instead of being topless, or a nudist, in front of strangers ; and I'd rather have a partner who wears a body swimsuit rather than a bikini in front of other people. It make a difference to me, as her partner. If to you that's "0 difference", then it means you have no respect for your partner's opinion, and no respect for your partner.
 
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I get it. You want to defend the honour of cheap women, but find it challenging because you yourself are not a cheap woman. You know a number of cheap women who have emotionally compromised boyfriends who are happy to have an attractive girlfriend, even if she's on display for every man to see. In fact, there are men who are so emotionally compromised, they pressure they're women to put themselves on display for the world so they can show them off as trophies. None of that contradicts what I'm saying.
Some people don't consider women commodities that should be defined as "cheap," or whatever--but as human beings with their own minds, thoughts, emotions, and motivations.

And some men are thoughtful, intelligent, and empathetic--so I can see how perhaps that would be considered "emotionally compromised" because they do relate to women on an emotional level, rather than just treating them like objects to be defined by terms like "cheap."
The only emotionally compromised man I see around here is the man who is making sweeping statements about what women can and can't do with their breasts.

I also find it frankly bizarre that a man who is secure and confident enough to have a partner who displays her breasts in public is somehow being described as 'emotionally compromised'. Sounds like one of those easy-to-say buzzwords used by hardcore conservatives who like to throw names and labels around then wash their hands of a subject without adding even an inch of depth to their naval-gazing.
 

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Flashing, depending on how it is done, is perhaps not cool. If it is a bit like when a few people are mooning, for jokes, not personal, then perhaps an eyeroll is due, or even a laugh if it is done in a funny way. But if it is flashing in a personal way, sexual, making the one looking uncomfortable, then really not cool. It depends on the circumstances.

General nudity is often fine, but I think one should read the people and possible reactions some. What distance from people, can people choose not to look? I have reminded my spouse to put on clothes or at least underwear when going to the bathroom at night for example when he is halfasleep and forgetting, as we live with people, and often there have been younger women and I don't want them to feel spooked if bumping into him outside the bathroom (there it might be too close, make one uncomfortable, you are alone, it is night, even if he is not at all an intimidating person), and I always put something on too. I know a woman who always swim nude, and it doesn't bother me at all, it is a place where it is a purpose and won't be read wrong, one can have a little bit of distance, there wasn't a sexual atmospere at all those times I was around, it was just her way. I would be fine being with someone who was nude like that in public (my spouse has been at times, I am fine with it). It has bothered me a little a few times when someone is exposed in an eye catching way when I am talking with them, when it is in the somewhat inner field of vision, so it is difficult not to think about (like a suggestive neckline/cleavage). In the end I think it is up to me to control myself though and where my thoughts and eyes go, and the embarassment is mostly about that, if I fail. I think it is largely about culture and exposure, that it is not something you are used to so it is more eyecatching, in different times and different cultures different parts of the body has been acceptable to show, not just nude skin, but also the shape of the body, like enhancing the waist, or showing the just the shape of hips and butt, legs... So though it would take me a little getting used to too, I think it would be nicer if we had a culture that was more relaxed about nudity. (I think wearing at least underpants of some kind though in public, for hygiene not spreading around stds on bus-seats, haha)

Personally I am not very comfortable with showing much, but there are personal insecurities involved in that, I kind of wish I was more fine with it, because I am not a huge fan of clothes, feeling confined and they itch and restrict, and I hate sweat... And skinny dipping is great, I have not done so often, but it feels different from in a swimsuit, how the water moves, the free feeling, but I am not comfortable to do it among people myself, perhaps in the future.

In the end it is just nice to be able to not wear much when it is warm, or when in water etc. and it would be nice to have the option not to. Just like I think it is a pity there is stigma around men's skirts, which is also a nice option to have in summer, or even men in shorts... not sure that is still a thing but there used to be a lot of ridicule around that and I really couldn't understand it, what else are they to wear when it is warm if dresses and skirts are not an option? stupid.

But just with some basic respect of others, like if on a crowded train it might be nice to cover up a little, other people might not want to be pressed against your skin, if you undress on a beach, don't do it half a meter from a stranger suddenly catching them by surprise...
 

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The only emotionally compromised man I see around here is the man who is making sweeping statements about what women can and can't do with their breasts.

I also find it frankly bizarre that a man who is secure and confident enough to have a partner who displays her breasts in public is somehow being described as 'emotionally compromised'. Sounds like one of those easy-to-say buzzwords used by hardcore conservatives who like to throw names and labels around then wash their hands of a subject without adding even an inch of depth to their naval-gazing.
This is odd. We both know that I haven't told anyone what they can and can't do with their tits. Yet here you are pretending I have, in a weird attempt to throw my own words back at me. This is not your usual standard.

You call it secure and confident. I call it weak and shameless.

I've shared my opinion. Whether you like it or not, it's a contribution to the topic. What have you contributed? All you've done is repeated Electra's points. If anything, you've taken away from the topic by perverting comments you didn't like. Pathetic.
 

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This is odd. We both know that I haven't told anyone what they can and can't do with their tits. Yet here you are pretending I have, in a weird attempt to throw my own words back at me. This is not your usual standard.

You call it secure and confident. I call it weak and shameless.

I've shared my opinion. Whether you like it or not, it's a contribution to the topic. What have you contributed? All you've done is repeated Electra's points. If anything, you've taken away from the topic by perverting comments you didn't like. Pathetic.
I did comment and I admitted I'm somewhat socially conservative because I wouldn't be too happy with a girlfriend who exposed herself in that way.

I just think it's absurd to say a man is "emotionally compromised" if he doesn't have a problem with such things. Calling it "weak and shameless", it sounds like you're judging people for entirely the wrong things.

"How dare that man allow his wife to display her breasts! He must have a problem, either in himself, or in controlling his woman!""

Can you not see how misogynistic and desperately patriarchal that is?
 

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I did comment and I admitted I'm somewhat socially conservative because I wouldn't be too happy with a girlfriend who exposed herself in that way.

I just think it's absurd to say a man is "emotionally compromised" if he doesn't have a problem with such things. Calling it "weak and shameless", it sounds like you're judging people for entirely the wrong things.

"How dare that man allow his wife to display her breasts! He must have a problem, either in himself, or in controlling his woman!""

Can you not see how misogynistic and desperately patriarchal that is?
I think it's crazy to imply that it takes confidence to date an exhibitionist.

That's not the same context. My opinion is not going to be the same.

In your context there could be a plethora of reasons for why a man is in that situation and not all of them require him to be emotionally compromised. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

I'll share a story that stuck with me over the years. It's about my mentor and his wife. He was the family breadwinner and also handled the brunt of the housekeeping. She liked cooking, but she didn't like doing the dishes so he did those too. She didn't care for him or the kids. I used to spot her in clubs at 1am dressed in slutty clothes rubbing up on teenagers. Every time I tried talking sense into her she would just tell me to keep my mouth shut or she would turn her husband against me.

Her threats didn't scare me, but the thought of telling my mentor that the woman he loves is twerking on a pack of losers made my stomach turn. In the end I decided I had to tell him. He wasn't surprised at all. He knew about a lot more than that. She was cheating on him with multiple people. He asked me to keep it quiet. He was waiting for her to decide to leave him on her own terms because he knew that if he filed for divorce she would make it a messy affair and he didn't want to put his kids through that ordeal. He was willing to swallow his pride and wait until his kids were adults if he had to because that was a price worth paying as far as he was concerned.

Now she's no exhibitionist. She's a slut, which is a lot worse in my books. And he would regularly take her and his kids out to a fancy dinner. If I saw a man in the exact same boat and I knew what his wife was like, I would think he's a better man than me.
 

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I'll share a story that stuck with me over the years. It's about my mentor and his wife. He was the family breadwinner and also handled the brunt of the housekeeping. She liked cooking, but she didn't like doing the dishes so he did those too. She didn't care for him or the kids. I used to spot her in clubs at 1am dressed in slutty clothes rubbing up on teenagers. Every time I tried talking sense into her she would just tell me to keep my mouth shut or she would turn her husband against me.

Her threats didn't scare me, but the thought of telling my mentor that the woman he loves is twerking on a pack of losers made my stomach turn. In the end I decided I had to tell him. He wasn't surprised at all. He knew about a lot more than that. She was cheating on him with multiple people. He asked me to keep it quiet. He was waiting for her to decide to leave him on her own terms because he knew that if he filed for divorce she would make it a messy affair and he didn't want to put his kids through that ordeal. He was willing to swallow his pride and wait until his kids were adults if he had to because that was a price worth paying as far as he was concerned.

Now she's no exhibitionist. She's a slut, which is a lot worse in my books. And he would regularly take her and his kids out to a fancy dinner. If I saw a man in the exact same boat and I knew what his wife was like, I would think he's a better man than me.
I'm not entirely sure how that relates to the topic of the thread, haha, but it's impressive that the guy did that. I think that's the strongest thing a man can do. All for the sake of providing stability for his kids. I don't know if I'd be able to do that.
 

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I'm not entirely sure how that relates to the topic of the thread, haha, but it's impressive that the guy did that. I think that's the strongest thing a man can do. All for the sake of providing stability for his kids. I don't know if I'd be able to do that.
His reasoning blew my mind. I know for a fact that I still have a long way to go before I'm strong enough to do that. Fortunately my wife is the better half in our dynamic so I doubt it's a burden I'll ever have to bear.

The point of that story was to address the context you presented. If all I see is a guy out with his woman and she has her tits out, it's possible that he's not ok with it but he's willing to let it slide because of something more important.
 

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His reasoning blew my mind. I know for a fact that I still have a long way to go before I'm strong enough to do that. Fortunately my wife is the better half in our dynamic so I doubt it's a burden I'll ever have to bear.

The point of that story was to address the context you presented. If all I see is a guy out with his woman and she has her tits out, it's possible that he's not ok with it but he's willing to let it slide because of something more important.
Ah, makes sense in that context.

I was thinking more along the lines of a more tame environment, e.g. a nudist beach.
 

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Ah, makes sense in that context.

I was thinking more along the lines of a more tame environment, e.g. a nudist beach.
I see what you mean. If the guy came up to me and asked me for my opinion, I would ask him if he's ok with it. And if he said yes, then maaaaaaaaaaaybe, if I felt the dude genuinely wanted a different perspective, I would tell him what I think. Otherwise I don't see myself walking up to a strangers just to tell them what I think of them. I'm freely sharing my opinion here because of the nature of this site.

Edit: This just dawned on me. Imagine someone going to a nudist beach and then pulling a surprised pikachu face because someone is topless lol
 

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His reasoning blew my mind. I know for a fact that I still have a long way to go before I'm strong enough to do that. Fortunately my wife is the better half in our dynamic so I doubt it's a burden I'll ever have to bear.

The point of that story was to address the context you presented. If all I see is a guy out with his woman and she has her tits out, it's possible that he's not ok with it but he's willing to let it slide because of something more important.
I understand you a lot better now. And I'm going to publicly come back into this thread and say that I actually agree with a lot of the themes you speak of, just not the presentation you're going with lmao.

Because I agree with your analysis of that situation and your mentor's decision. It was a decision guided by Fe, he cared more about the harmony than his pride. He knew what was going on, and he didn't let it damage his own pride because he knew that no matter how much wrong she did, he was the one doing the right thing.

People get really stuck up on gender when it comes to stuff like this. Guys get shit on by women who mistreat them too, and if some people want to publicly shame them, I'm not going to stop them. If I knew your mentor's wife personally, I'd call her a slut to anyone who asked me. I wouldn't be sorry about it, either. But only after I was sure who was in the right.

I just stop agreeing with you when you start calling people worthless for showing their tits.
 

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I was just about to say how fucked up we are going to be, until I remembered that my profile picture is also topless and I don't have any problem going out topless where the law allows me to.
But if the law doesn't, it's a different matter.
So the same should go for women right? I don't know because breasts are still considered as private parts, so as long as they think they must wear a short and not a bra, I think they are acting weird and paradoxical.
 

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In societies where breasts haven't become a predominant fetish aka psychological philia, women go topless without social or legal backlash.
This is why there are nudist camps, where the regular social legalities are null. Yet, I do believe they have rules there too.
 

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This is why there are nudist camps, where the regular social legalities are null. Yet, I do believe they have rules there too.
Sure, there's that in western nations but there are also tribes throughout the world where women aren't required by law or any unwritten social rules, to cover their breasts.

Bear in mind that this isn't something that I'd personally do or am even interested in doing. On the other hand, I have to acknowledge that my reticence is from being brainwashed since birth.
 

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I’m reminded of this cartoon:

Vertebrate Cartoon Rectangle Organism Mammal
 

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Free females doesn't get locked up inside the house and prevented schooling. Hijab is just one aspect of the sum of slavery
Yet, something as trivial as how one "presents" themselves is a frequent and enduring focus for control.

It is often taboo to show sympathy or respect (as opposed to pity, opposition, fear or disgust) for the plight of a disempowered person. All the considerations I'm hearing so far, whether in favor or against, appear to be bound by this taboo.
 
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