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Discussion Starter #1
OK guys, to all my fans and detractors I'm letting you guys know that I'm not going to be making anymore facetious threads in S and R anymore.

I won't lie, it's been really fun being an asshole, but my conscience is bothering me (ie. I've engaged in shaming the female demographic, and there are people taking my quasi-misogynistic perspective on women and dating seriously) and so it's time to stop.



In this thread (and probably my last) I'll try to present the serious points that I was implicitly making for you to ponder or dismiss;



1) There are inequities within modern hetero dating, where generally men are at a disadvantage.

Men are (online and IRL) overwhelmingly the primary initiators of dating and marriage proposals, and as a consequence women are the primary selectors. This logistically puts women in an advantageous position.

In a nutshell the way things are; If the average woman never initiated a dating proposal for the rest of her life she would still have available potential mates. Whereas if the average man never initiated a dating proposal for the rest of their lives, they'd probably die alone and virgins.

(And yet many women wonder why men can get 'creepy' persistent with dating requests)

2) Men discussing or complaining about the inequities and double standards of hetero dating are ignored or insulted.

A common retort from women when men complain is something along the lines of;

"Stop the pathetic whining, it's just because you are a basement dweller who can't get a woman."

(The lack of empathy is understandable, the average woman couldn't have the experience to relate.)

To women who make those kind of insults please remember that dating, sex and relationships aren't trivial subjects. Practically everyone looks for sex and/or companionship, and when people have a happy companionship they live longer and report a greater satisfaction with life than single people. As we all know new human beings are produced as a result of couplings. And dating experiences and relationships can leave people traumatized or with pleasant memories for the rest of their lives, and they can have a profound on traits and behavior. (Ask anyone who has gone through a really bad breakup, and is either traumatized by it or found a way to be resilient and learn from it.)

So let's not pretend that dating and relationships are a trivial subject, with no great personal or social implications.

3) The inequities of dating contribute to resentment and misogyny

Most women simply reply with "You shouldn't be bitter/resentful" when men bring up the inequities of dating and how it's made them bitter/resentful. I think they probably don't understand that the social environment of modern dating contributes towards male bitterness and/or misogynistic sentiments. I'm not saying it's not the man's responsibility to process those sentiments, but I'm am saying that the social environment facilitates those sentiments - unfortunately commonly, if temporarily.

In a book called Self-Made man by Norah Vincent she goes undercover for a year disguised as a man. I'll present some excerpts from her reflection on time courting and dating as a man. She eloquently describes how the dynamics of hetero dating contribute to bitterness, resentment and misogyny amongst men;

"...They tended to see a wolf in every man they met, and so they made every man they met into a wolf - even when that man was a woman."

Not surprisingly really. The women who were hostile to me made me mad, and that made me want to be hostile to them. I can't imagine men in the same positions not reacting the same way. And so the self perpetuating cycle of unkindness and discontent would go on and on, feeding on itself. These women were mostly hostile int he first place because they felt that men's bad behavior had made them so, and the men they met behaved badly because hostility breeds contempt.

It wasn't a good recipe for finding a lasting relationship, but I could remember feeling exactly the way it seemed these women did when I was a young women in and just out of college. I found plenty of ammunition for hating men in Women's studies 101, much of it, like the subjugation and abuse of women historically (and even currently), undeniable. Whats' more, I found plenty of reinforcement for my fledgling misandry in the crass undergraduates I encountered everywhere on campus. I'd read the textbooks of radical feminism, and following their lead, I thought all males were tainted by the patriarchy. For years thereafter, every guy I met was on probation.

But there's nothing like a few years in the trenches of lesbian romance to give a girl a little perspective on the supposed inborn evils of the opposite sex. As time went on I learned that girls don't behave any better than boys under relational duress, and that centuries of subjugation haven't made women morally superior."


"And if you have never been sexually attracted to women, you will never quite understand the monumental power of female sexuality, except by proxy or in theory, nor will you quite know the immense advantage it gives us over men. As a lesbian, I knew something of this. But it is different between two women, more and engagement of equals, and exchange or something shared. As a man, I learned much more, and I learned it, I think, from an unexpectedly disadvantage point of view."


"Dating women as a man was a lesson in female power, and it made me, of all things, into a momentary misogynist, which, I suppose was the best indicator that my experiment had worked. I saw my own sex from the other side, and I disliked women irrationally for a while because of it. I disliked their superiority, their accusatory smile, their entitlement to choose or dash me with a fingertip, and execution so lazy, so effortless, it made the defeats and even the successes unbearably humiliating. Typical male power feels by comparison like a blunt instrument, it's salvos and field strategies laughably remedial next to the damage a woman can do with a single cutting word: no."

"Dating women was the hardest thing I had to do as Ned, even when the women liked me and I liked them. I have never felt more vulnerable to total strangers, never more socially defenseless than in my clanking suit of borrowed armor."
IMO and IME the only group of women who can empathize from experience about the resentment and bitterness that the challenges of dating can create in men are culturally unattractive (ie. ugly) women. The have to exert as much effort, and have to deal with as much indifference and hostility as the average man.




Please share your thoughts, experiences, perspective and possible solutions.

(Please - for the fucking love of christ! - don't let this thread become about promoting or debating feminist theory.)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
To my single Broskis...


I've enjoyed researching into the topic of dating, and 2 books that I like if you want advise about getting pussy or a relationship are;


Relationship;
Changing your game by Christie Hartman


Pussy;
Rules of the game by Neil Strauss

They give advise on; types of women to avoid, challenges that come with dating certain demographics of women, how to create interesting conversation, how to choke a bitch, etc.


Good luck.
 

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I have no doubt this world of male sexual frustration exists .. I mean I hear enough guys complaining about it.. The books and websites dedicated to it are numerous.
BUT .. I have never lived in it. It seems alien to me.
AM I a stud or rich and powerful? No..
Just a working class dude with average looks.
All I ever had to do was exist .. So it's true that inequities exist in the dating world.. Some people have it.. Some don't. If you don't have it.. I think he worst thing you can do is become an angry cynical bitch about it.. That tactic has a really piss poor track record of attracting the ladies.
How about you get over your sense of entitlement, stop blaming "those bitches" for not liking you and become someone more likable. After all, the only thing you have any control over in this life is yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
How about you get over your sense of entitlement, stop blaming "those bitches" for not liking you and become someone more likable. After all, the only thing you have any control over in this life is yourself.
You guys crack me up. You guys psychologically profile people based on posts in a forum lol.
 

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Yeah I can see why men would begin to hate women based on how the typical routine goes. But that is an unhealthy response to deal with reality. Gandhi said that anger poisons yourself more than anything. So does hating women. Hating women makes your life worse. Women don't owe you anything either so if they reject you it's no problem. Deal with it. Don't hate them for it.
 

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You guys crack me up. You guys psychologically profile people based on posts in a forum lol.
Or you have some sort of complex? If I was talking directly to you I would have quoted you. I am just not that passive aggressive that I would speak broadly while trying veil my ad hominen against you.
My post was a general statement about male sexual frustration due to a common misdirected sense of self entitlement.

Now We can start building a profile since you took a general statement rather to heart and have since expressed a persecution complex about the subject.
You poor poor man.. Life is just so unfair..
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So does hating women. Hating women makes your life worse. Women don't owe you anything either so if they reject you it's no problem. Deal with it. Don't hate them for it.
I'm curious if you read the excerpts from the book I quoted, showing how the social environment of hetero dating contributes to resentment?

I was hoping for a more nuanced discussion.

See this is why I made my threads provocative, they get better responses.
 

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l will peacefully accept your offer to cease and desist :kitteh:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I couldn't resist...

Or you have some sort of complex?
I take back my comment about psychologically profiling based on posts :happy:.

If I was talking directly to you I would have quoted you. I am just not that passive aggressive.
And then you wrote...

Now We can start building a profile since you took a general statement rather to heart and have since expressed a persecution complex about the subject.
You poor poor man.. Life is just so unfair..
PerC people sometimes.
 

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Oh Internet, why are you so delicious?

How do you not tire of talking about the same topic over, and over, and over again?
 

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lol. Armchair psychology is the whole point of this site.
eh. Should be more self directed IMO. That doesn't mean it's unusual but l'd also call someone out on it where it's inappropriately (and annoyingly) practiced.

Personality Cafe: The Place To Discover Yourself
 

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In the 50s men had all the power and women hated men for it. Now the tables have turned and men feel the same way that 50s women did. Wiser viewers criticize the culture which cultivates such insufferable individuals, but it can often be hard to separate the person from the culture.

I really can't understand how a person can fail to sympathize with men after reading this, but I'm sure several will.

"Dating women as a man was a lesson in female power, and it made me, of all things, into a momentary misogynist, which, I suppose was the best indicator that my experiment had worked. I saw my own sex from the other side, and I disliked women irrationally for a while because of it. I disliked their superiority, their accusatory smile, their entitlement to choose or dash me with a fingertip, and execution so lazy, so effortless, it made the defeats and even the successes unbearably humiliating. Typical male power feels by comparison like a blunt instrument, it's salvos and field strategies laughably remedial next to the damage a woman can do with a single cutting word: no."

"Dating women was the hardest thing I had to do as Ned, even when the women liked me and I liked them. I have never felt more vulnerable to total strangers, never more socially defenseless than in my clanking suit of borrowed armor."
 

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I couldn't resist...



I take back my comment about psychologically profiling based on posts :happy:.



And then you wrote...



PerC people sometimes.
Uh Huh.. It's always everyone else.. You are just such a perfect specimen of raw human intelligence that the only possible explanation is everyone else is a moron.. Enjoy your single lifestyle.. I am sure you have a lot of experience and will continue to excel at it. :p
 

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Oh Internet, why are you so delicious?

How do you not tire of talking about the same topic over, and over, and over again?
You don't talk about topics repeatedly in you life? Most people I know have a few topics that they have a persistent interest in.

Ok, judging by the first page, and your appearance, this thread is gonna get closed down.

Might as well just engage in countering trolls...

 

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I think the more you learn about the more you dislike them or respect them. Because in my case you learn they're just like men, and the main reason your attracted to them is because you thought they were not like men. Also you can't say anything against women, women can voice their angry and frustrations about men all day. But as soon as you talk about women - we don't owe you anything, you should have done this or that etc.

Now making the leap from being angry to a misogynist is different, I am personally angry with both genders, but single out one is to big a step. Like others have mentioned though being angry and hate doesn't help. However when you can't voice your frustrations and anger that makes it worse, that's my biggest problem. I hear women say all sorts off crap about men and there is nothing wrong with that. A lot should be mad, and I should be able to do the same. The more you hold your anger in, the more it grows. It's acceptable for a women to voice her frustrations for men your automatically labeled a misogynist.
 

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Uh Huh.. It's always everyone else.. You are just such a perfect specimen of raw human intelligence that only the explanation is that everyone else is a moron
No, just you. You contradicted yourself within the space of a few lines.
 

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The sad thing is that I always hoped that this type of stuff (the dating games/angst) would decrease once people get older & hopefully be more mature and happier with themselves and their lives. I guess I am wrong - if you go and look at the Baby Boomers forum there is a discussion about dating right now. The very same issues (!!!) are discussed there. Pretty sad... apparently most of us never grow up.
 

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You don't talk about topics repeatedly in you life? Most people I know have a few topics that they have a persistent interest in.
Yeah, but it's all the time with you. Why not, I don't know, get a hobby, talk about sports or some shit. Whenever I see your username its a rephrasing of the same topic. Makes you look a little obsessive. Just a little.

Ok, judging by the first page, and your appearance, this thread is gonna get closed down.
You think about me that much?


Might as well just engage in countering trolls...
But who's gonna counter you?
 
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