[Siara]

I think out of all of the Deadliest Sins, my greatest challenge is Sloth with it's parent, Pride, as a close second.

More specifically, I think this can also apply to a fair few INFPs out there... of course, there are individual differences, but I'm interested in other people's opinions and solutions to this equation:

This, in short, is why I think Sloth is the deadliest sin (for INFPs):

Perfectionism + Idealism = Lack of Motivation = Sloth

This, in short, is why I think Pride is a deadly sin to us, but is a 'parent' of Sloth in this scenario so acts through another:

Perfectionism = Pride (In this problem)

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More details about 'my' sloth experience (can ignore if you want):

Anybody else feel like they have loads of ideas that they'd like to bring to life in some shape or form (be it art, writing, real life scenarios), but something always stops you? It could be laziness or depression, but for me... it's bigger than those.

I feel so inspired, and yet when I come to do something I usually get let down and feel terribly drained and can feel just... bored. I often feel bored, and have no motivation to do anything. I feel like I've tried everything.

I think this is, personally, a perfectionism and idealism problem - I idealise something unrealistic... that I KNOW logically I can't do, and then try to produce it and inevitably get disappointed. And even when I can achieve the impossible, I feel 'me'h' about it and expect to do better. Does anybody else have this deadly mentality?

To me, this mentality is very easily prey to Sloth and I know other INFPs who suffer from this also.

For me, 'Sloth' usually comes up with these arguments:

[WARNING: Some of the following questions might MAKE you Slothful, so please don't read them if you're already feeling down/bad. This is just to give those who are confused some perspective of why Sloth springs to mind.]

• "You're wasting your time, you know it won't live up to your expectation regardless of how hard you try, so why put all that effort in?"
  
• "You look so drained... why not do something easier? Ohh, is Pride your next biggest Sin? Well, rumour has it I am produced from it."
• "Why try so hard when all you do is fail? You haven't gotten any better, have you? No, you haven't... so why try again?"
  
• "Aren't your friends saying you should 'try something else'? Well, why don't you give in? Regardless of how much you want the talent, you can't have it and never will do."
• "Nobody will appreciate your work, they'll pass it off as luck, or say it's 'fine'. So why spend hours on it with no actual gain and more pressure to produce work of the same quality? Nobody cares about what you do or how much effort you put in, so why should you?"
• "If you just sat here and did nothing, that might make you feel better than if you did something for nothing."

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Anybody else agree or have a different opinion?
I'm just curious really as to what you think in terms of solutions, advice and what your deadliest sin is and why.

Anybody have ways for INFPs to 'fight' Sloth?
(Effective answers to the questions I asked when impersonating Sloth might help!)

Any other solutions for fighting Sloth?

The ways I know of that might work for other INFPs (but not for me or my friends) are:

• Visit a doctor/psychologist/counselor to see if you're suffering from depression/anxiety. (Talking and/or pills did not work for my friends, and I was not diagnosed with anything).
• 'Force' yourself to do something. (Actually drains us more so to do this and makes us fed up.)
• Watch motivational videos on YouTube, such as this one:
  (Didn't work for me or my friends.)
• Changing 'primary' hobbies frequently to elongate the lifespan of the hobby (Me and my friends are 'frustrated' with all of our interests, we feel tired, unmotivated and drained... we tried 'forcing' ourselves to do primary hobbies, it didn't work out well at all.)
• Find a brand new hobby (I have run most hobbies dry, and the 'lifespan' of the hobby is decreasing due to being tired/more easily bored due to Sloth. My friends try to find hobbies, some do - some don't. It also isn't a feasible solution for something like jobs.)
• Toning down your perfectionism or idealisation (You can do that as an INFP? Wow. My friends and I struggle with this, so if anyone has done/has ideas on this one I'd be very interested in how to go about it.)
• Accepting yourself for who you are, and your abilities (Again, can you do this truly as an INFP? I always feel the need to prove myself, so do my friends.. which arguably makes me think Pride is a close second to our primary Deadliest Sin. Again, if anyone has done this please give us tips)
• Don't need to 'prove' anything to anyone, just be yourself. (This might just be down to my friends, but we rely a lot from other people's input into things like our art... and it matters what others think. Trying to impress people is what I like to do, but somehow can't. We also can't be 'ourselves' easily and are very hidden individuals)
• Don't 'expect' gratitude and praise/fair criticism from others, they're not your lap dogs. They don't owe you anything. (Well, this can be true for sure - but how exactly do you propose to not expect it? Why would you do things in the first place if they're not for someone else? To me this is where the idealism thing bites the hardest and I nor my friends know how to not do this, especially in fields like art.)

Thanks for reading anyone!

Here, have a cookie!

 

[Ryn_dweller]

This is extremely accurate to how I find myself feeling constantly.

My deadliest sin has to be sloth. When it comes to my education I am a perfectionist. I need to get top grades so I work crazy hard to get my work done well but then I lose momentum along the way if I happen to get a lower grade. I believe that must fall in line with my pride taking the reigns. I get cocky cause I know that I've been doing well so I give myself some slack and get lazy about the work. So once I'm slapped with a low grade I find it difficult to get the original motivation back. Instead I just decide to stop making an effort all together.
I think as an INFP I really struggle for the 'ideal' situation. If I can't reach that standard that I have set for myself I'd rather just give up on the dream altogether. Not content with less than what I have made up for myself in my mind.

Sloth and Pride These two traits have been a key element to my failed education.

 

[Necrox]

Man your sloth is like my approach to music composing. The desire is there but it immediately dies even when just looking at the empty step sequencer. Sloth is my worst enemy too.

 

[gaudy316]

Mine has to be lust. I notice cleavages all too well. Can't get them out of my head!

Now that I notice your definitions of sloth, perhaps I need to rethink about myself. I play video games 3 hours+ a day. I'm 28 and what am I doing with my life?

 

[Distill]

Realy good post as a Type 9 INFP I've particularly struggled with this recently (I mean, I'm replying to this rather than doing work I should be doing), although I used to do this when I was younger and not forced to work.

I've thought about this recently, and I think that low self-confidence is one of the major root causes of this kind of sloth and, well, it seems that chronic low self-confidence seems to be something shared by a lot of members on this forum. Not only does no confidence in abilities lead to inaction because, after all, how can you do something if you genuinely don't believe that you'll be able to finish or do it well? On top of this, low confidence can also lead to pride/arrogance as a way of compensating for a lack of belief in oneself. It's a bit counter-intuitive, but I've seen this in my dad and I've seen this in me - I guess it's analogous to stressed INFPs overemphasising Te, even though it's our weakest function.

Your advice is great, @Siara, especially the last two points. The last two points are important for nurturing your self-confidence. That must come from within, not without, and looking for validation from others doesn't give it the sort of care that it needs to grow.

Another thing to add which has helped me a lot in the last couple of weeks: if you do, try to get out of the habit of unhealthy judging...judging people, judging your work, performance, etc. Low self-confidence can lead to excessive comparison and judgement of others which, again, doesn't truly help self-confidence. It's easier said than done, but if you do find yourself passing judgement, stop, think about the judgement, apply a little bit of rationality, and let it flow away. Importantly, don't get upset if you do find yourself irrationally judging something! If you think about it, in this way, you're irrationally judging yourself for judging! This will not only help your confidence more as you stop comparing yourself to others as frequently, but you'll also find yourself being a bit more accepting.

 

[Laust]

Wow...yes. I have a lot of skills and talent I don't really give myself credit for, but at the same time that's probably because I over-think and idealize things and fearing disappointment from myself and others. Instead, I drop anchor and come up with excuses or make myself busy with other things. I drive myself crazy with this!

 

[Bluefireluv]

Well it's not that bad! At least now I know I'm good at something

...Hahahas what nonsense xD Well, for me the school I'm in would be considered a "good" school. What escapes me is how I even ended up here 0_o Either way, my results are the lowest of the low...And it's all because I procrastinate so much I never get around to studying ._. And I never do my homework either, because of procrastination and perfectionism xD

Basically, whenever I have work to do, I just brood about it and go procrastinate but honestly I'm not particularly happy procrastinating either Mostly because I know that if I ever want to achieve my dreams, I'll have to do the work. And after centuries, when I DO come around to doing the work, I'll feel so happy and smart and just so great... then I'll meet some problem I can't solve. And I'll spend eons trying to work it out. And after realizing I've just spent eons on a question, I'll give up and leave a few blanks for if I ever get a magical solution hahahas xD But then my paper looks horrible :shocked: And idk why, but after that one blank, I can't seem to solve the subsequent problems either! :crying: What's worse is that if I go "I'll just try this again later", I'll stop, the momentum is gone, and the whole cycle repeats! :frustrating:

• "You're wasting your time, you know it won't live up to your expectation regardless of how hard you try, so why put all that effort in?"
• "Why try so hard when all you do is fail? You haven't gotten any better, have you? No, you haven't... so why try again?"

THAT'S WHAT I KEEP TELLING MYSELF OR WHAT MY SUBCONCIOUS TELLS ME ANYWAYS. And what I tell my friends whenever they ask why I'm slacking around so much! I'd say recently I've gotten better though, although half of it is because of some wonderful people I know~

My recipe for not being a sloth!
1) Pusher(s). Hahahas xD Basically a friend It really doesn't matter what they're like. I have 2 pushers: The first is an INTJ who's such a good friend that she's pushing me to study after I told her I needed a pusher xD And she knows I hate it when people are bossy so she won't FORCE me to do it. She'll just keep nagging xD Another's a fellow INFP, and we both have this stupid problem. We know that it's good for ourselves and each other though, so we push each other by reminding each other and doing the work together!

2) A dose of reality: I mean yeah, we could sit all day and dream our wonderful dreams *drools* But somewhere deep inside of you, that little part that loves denying lots of sad things, you know you wouldn't be happy not ever being able to do what you wanna do! I like the thought that I'll magically do well in the exams or the world will magically change to my standards but it won't I think we really need reality to punch us in the face before we wake up hahahas xD I'm just speaking for myself though, I know we're all different in our own ways!

3) Momentum. This is so hard :/ But I basically need to keep doing something once I start it xD So I've kind of learnt to tune the whole world out when I'm working. Not tune out per se because I'm can still hear people talking around me but I basically just ignore people, even if it's my really nice teacher giving out oreo cookies hahahas xD (I ate the cookies right after though, so yay!~ )

4) Brain power: I don't mean squeeze all your brain juice to get the answer xD I'm talking about believing!~ I mean that INTJ friend of mine will be all "You can do it" and I'm like "I wish!" But well, in reference to point 2, she knocked a bit of sense into me when she asked whether I was really trying my best :ninja: I've also had a few really genuine teachers (Idk why, but I can usually tell if they genuinely care or not), who told me that I have potential and could do well if I wanted to. Found that if I let myself trust in them just a little, I'll get motivated! And if they don't mean what they say well...If I ever get the results I want then it'll come true anywayyys Also I tend to doubt myself a lot, and that really has an impact on my progress cause I'll just skip all the questions in case I get those wrong (Now that I'm thinking about it, it REALLY doesn't make sense xD)

Just my (very long, uncompressed) 2 cents!

 

[Ecspyred]

I think my greatest challenge is Pride. I don't really consider myself lazy. I'm pretty laid back, but I'm not completely lazy.
Ever since reality dawned on me, Pride has always been a huge problem for me. I'm a perfectionist but not much people know that 'cause whenever I have a critical opinion about something, I prefer not to talk about it. I only tell one person, and that's my best friend. I don't really care if I'm too much of a perfectionist upon myself, but what really bothers me is my opinions about others and/or their works. I can't really describe how evil I am upon these judgements but whenever I make an opinion like this, I imagine myself sitting on a high throne, cold eyes and a grin upon my face. It's Pride! Pride! Pride! Pride! Pride! I want to get rid of it but I can't. Pride is already a part of me. It's so wrong, but it's just who I am. I can't change that fact. I am Pride. :sad:

 

[haijakingu]

I can relate to this very much. The recent Sloth+Pride moment I had was on a class debate thing and I was telling my groupmates on the action plan but when it came to the execution, we ultimately lost. The ideal 'fiery debate' me didn't happen and I was left fazed during the debate. Afterwards, I had this little assessment on myself and I told myself I was bring overly idealistic without even trying to take action to fulfill that 'fiery debater' me.

Nope. I'm not geared to be a 'fiery debater' at such a short period of time but I can debate with preparedness. But nooo...idealism. Lol. Oh well. In actuality, the more I reflect the more I get depressed about it. Of course, there are lots of moments like that for me.

 

[Noctis]

I really don't believe in sins, since I am a secular humanist/atheist. I think my biggest personality flaw is perfectionism, often so much that I become overwhelmed and blinded about doing things "the right way".

 

[StElmosDream]

Pride becoming hubris and the equally bad excesses of humility, when one needs a strong grounding in both camps to avoid behaving like the mad scientist expert of all master of few or the doctorate professor that refuses to credit themselves when around smart minds (all too common when around lay folk as a means of 'being one of them' when education or skills do set people apart).

Sloth or avarice can be productive, when one adopts the what's in it for me mentality and the high life of sky-high ambitions then early leisure.

 

[phantom_ecstasy]

I'm pretty damn lazy, but envy is a bigger issue for me.

 

[TheTwin]

For me the talk about the deadly sin of sloth is bogus!
This sin mixes sloth with "otiosity" and tells us it is evil. I don't know a better word in English then otiosity. I had to use a dictionary. In German there is the word "Müßiggang," which basically means "doing nothing" and is a synonym to sloth. But for me (and I am not alone here) it has a different connotation. German lyricists and artists often practice Müßiggang to get their ideas, their inspiration. Where they contemplate about what is wrong, what is right, what is beauty, etc. To take time off their regular tasks (or the world/society) just for themselves.

Some psychologist go as far as to state that in our western world* this mindset is a very big reason for our suffering. "You have to work! You don't have time to pause! Work 24/7! No time to waste!" It is connected very heavily to the influence of Christianity. In fact, from a psychological standpoint, this so called sin deprives us of our very human "god-given" nature. The right to pause, breath, contemplate, think, be with yourself. Actually the ten commandments contradict this sin: You shall pause on the seventh day. So what now? Should I work my ass off (because it is a sin to do otherwise) or should I pause on one day (which god asks me to)?


Just my thoughts. And I am not a Christian, nor do I study the bible.

*Edit*
So since sloth for me isn't a sin but my obligation that only leaves pride.


* - Which is heavily inspired by Christianity and the deadly sins - foremost because of Thomas of Aquinas' Acedia: coving of the mind towards the forbidden; disinterest towards the Commandments or rules; despair; and the other three daughters of Acedia (which may be considered as melancholia or "dullness of the heart"). Going just another step: If one considers this interpretation: Every form of anarchism is forbidden, as well as the act to think and feel freely as well as the right to fight what is wrong (since what is right and wrong is not of your concern, you have to work 24h a day and have no time to think about this).

 

[Nekomata]

I think sloth is pretty accurate for me too *is obsessed with the deadly sins* xDDD. Which will probably lead to my downfall later in life. Another bad one with me (second worst) would be greed. I get stuff but then I'd rather keep it to myself than share it and... *sweatdrop* well it's something that also makes me feel rather guilty. Oh, and wrath is a bad one of mine too, so angry all the time.... man, I have issues <.<;;

 

[ptarmigan]

I think the pride and sloth very much go together in that it takes your own high expectation of yourself such as if you have a reputation or image you want to create or maintain for yourself for you to feel that it is too daunting or exhausting to reach for, so you don't. I think this serves even a protective purpose in that, if you don't actually try to reach for the high standard according to your pride, then you don't have to risk finding out that you might not, even if you really gave it your all, match the image you hold before yourself you want others to believe in as you do.

I am fairly perfectionistic myself, and one experience in particular in which I think I can relate is in tests of intelligence. I had so much pride growing up of my own intelligence I was afraid to actually take intelligence tests and avoided them because I felt it would take so much work to give it my all and that they didn't accurately measure true pattern matching ability anyway. Really it was just my own trying to protect my own image for myself and it took a lot of that image being battered for it to finally start actually connecting with the prideful feelings that seemed always exempt because I could always make excuses for myself. Slowly I just stopped believing in those excuses and slowly the pride evaporated.

I had held out my own potential in front of me and it loomed so large and daunting. It was my shame for not accomplishing more. I made excuses for myself for not living up to it. Aging has worn that self-seriousness down quite a bit though. I'm not special. I'm just a me, trying to look out for myself, living this life. I will live for a time and then return to the earth, and there isn't a soul in the world keeping track of how I succeed or fail. No one in the whole of the universe cares one way or another how I live my life. All that really matters, as I like to say so much, is just the quality of my own consciousness. Is the way I'm living and thinking bringing me happiness all things considered or isn't it? It's nothing more than an optimization problem, albeit a very complex one. But, as I also like to say, the brain exists to regulate the body, your mind, to regulate the brain. Your only purpose is to nurture life, to care for life, to preserve life, to balance life, the life of everything in the world. What is the meaning of your specialness in that? How good you are or how you make others proud? Your success or money or the kind of car you drive? How much of a legend you can make of yourself? You are just a part of the universe. You are of it, all you are, your every thought and feeling.

 

[Bago]

It's interesting to talk about this. About guilt etc. I remember getting gifts, and sharing when I was younger. I feel more light hearted and happier if when I did this. It's only through time that it made me more and more weary as people do not want to share things or that they do not want the things that you want to share with such that.. well.... It closes one's heart. It makes one more independent and weary, guilty, and fearful.

 

[Siara]

Thank you everyone for your responses by the way! I am interested in this type of stuff and also am going to try some of the things you have said.

Wow this post took a long while, I appreciate everyone's feedback! :3

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@Ryn_dweller

I know that feeling all too well!

I mainly got my motivation back at school from believing that I had something to 'prove' to the people who classed me as an idiot and said I'd never even finish high school that I could be better than them (prideful, not exactly a healthy mentality but it got me through high school).

At the beginning of high school I was at the bottom of the year, I steadily worked at it throughout the years, pushed myself to my limits, and even though it tired me out to the point of being both physically and mentally exhausted - I was in the top 2 of the year by the end of high school and was very proud of it!

So, in a way Sloth didn't aid me in getting that achievement, but the significant amount of Pride that I had did. :'D

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@Necrox

I know of that feeling also, I get frustrated by it so much! I want to draw, I want to do things... but when it comes to it, I often don't.

I'd recommend looking at Distill's and Bluefireluv's answers further down on the first page, as they have presented some pretty neat solutions/mentality changes that I hadn't thought of that could help with this!

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@gaudy316

Haha! I know of a similar feeling to video gaming. :'3

I have to say Lust is my 'weakest' 'Sin' out of the Seven as I am asexual, so don't really 'lust' after things much.

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@Distill

Your post is really great, thank you very much for it as it got me to think a lot! :3

I get what you're saying about the self confidence issues, in all honesty, I didn't really believe I had them until I had a recent chat with my ENTP mother about what 'self confidence' is. She said that it was a 'belief that you can deal with something regardless of what happens as you know you'll be able to manage', whereas I believed it was 'a delusional belief that you are without flaws and are perfectly strong', which she (quite rightly) said was 'Pride' and showed that she believed I had little to no self confidence from her definition.

Growing up in a strong T centric family didn't help my confidence too much, as if I do something for them they often focus solely on the negatives and not on the positives. And I do admit, I am guilty of what you say: "looking for validation from others" and having a "habit of unhealthy judging" for sure; I always try to please my family and friends (which usually fails and leads to my idealism, or 'Pride', never being fulfilled making my Sloth grow stronger), and I always compare myself to others, constantly - if I don't, my family always do; and I always seek validation and advice from people as I am on this forum!

I think the advice you gave was excellent, I'll probably have lots of trouble with actually 'stopping' judging people mentally and looking for validation from others.

Any more tips on not comparing yourself to others?

I'd probably struggle mainly due to my family always doing it, and they don't stop. xD

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@Laust

I feel exactly like that, I'm glad I'm not alone in this 'fear'. :'D

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@Bluefireluv

Thank you for your response, I found it very useful and will try out your solutions for sure! :3

"At least now I know I'm good at something ...Hahahas what nonsense xD"

^ Makes me think that you probably have low self esteem issues due to what your describing. D:

I remember that feeling well, although, in my situation my Pride (as I think, looking back on it now, my Pride was 10 times as strong as my Sloth) actually got me to do incredibly well; I wanted to 'prove' myself to all of those people from my primary school that thought I was incredibly dumb, so I forced myself to work, even when I was at the lowest of the low. :'3

"I'll feel so happy and smart and just so great... then I'll meet some problem I can't solve."

^ This was sort of covered in your 4) bullet point, but with a slightly different tone. I used to have this problem when I felt really academically stupid, and I still have this feeling as well when I go through questions.

The way I get passed that is to just take a breath, close your eyes for a few seconds and just collect yourself, try to search your thoughts and feelings! If the answer does not spring to mind straight away, don't worry about it! Stressing actually only makes it worse, and I often move on to another question, and the answer to the one I don't know appears before me! Nobody in the world is perfect, nobody has the answers to everything - not even Google, so it's OK to forget things and examiners know this too!

Tell yourself that it's just one question, you'll have time at the end to deal with it, you'll only be wasting time sitting there wondering what to do when there's probably a question up ahead you can answer, and that the next question will probably be better! Then leave it alone, and go onto the next question. Sometimes if I know 'something' about the answer, but not quite everything I'll write down a few words, or maybe an equation or two and that can get you some marks - you'll feel better this way, and learn more this way than if you go on to look at the answers.

If you don't have time to go back to it, just tell yourself that you did the best you could, that the question was only worth x marks out of y marks, and be proud of yourself, reward yourself and I hope it helps. :3

As for your solutions, I think they're great!

I'll be trying them out, I somewhat have some of them in place already but didn't fully realise it, my only 'Pusher' is my ENTP mom as I don't exactly have friends in real life who live by, I'm alone at university - the lecturers help me and want me to do well, but not in the 'Pusher' way. :'3

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@Ecspyred

Awwww, I feel the need to try to help you out here! D:

"I'm a perfectionist but not much people know that 'cause whenever I have a critical opinion about something, I prefer not to talk about it. I only tell one person, and that's my best friend."

^ This would suggest that your lack of self esteem is preventing you from saying what you truly think; for the friends I know, who are artists, criticism is usually well accepted so long as it isn't something like 'you suck'. They want to improve, and if they are showing you pieces of their work and asking for criticism, then you should, by all means, say what you think - regardless of how nit-picky it is, it can help them in the long run.

All I can really say is to try looking up the 'Emperor's New Clothes' on Google, and then read the story; you'll see that perfectionism, although it is 'bad', can be good as you need to inform them about what you really think.

"I can't really describe how evil I am upon these judgements but whenever I make an opinion like this" <- You're not alone in this 'evil', if it is really an 'evil'... everyone casts judgement on everyone; it's pretty much human nature. A lot of the time, you may be fooled into thinking that people don't pass judgement because they don't say it out loud, but you can see it in their eyes if they look closely. Perfectionism is a variety of judgement that is mainly damaging to your own self esteem from my experience, I'd suggest reading Distrill's post (further up on the first page) to see if it helps you 'stop' casting judgement on others. :3

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@haijakingu

I know of that sort of idealism, I imagined myself to be like Phoenix Wright whenever I debated. :'D

From what I can tell from your post, I'd say you are not ceasing your moments or living life without regrets; life is short and I always live by the question; 'Well why not? What have I to lose from doing this?'!

In your scenario, I would've 'rallied' the debate; I can quite easily 'pretend' to be someone else to even make my dreams come true! So, this is the sort of mentality I would've taken: a fiery debate, why not? People will respect a winning person, I feel passionately about this topic (or I don't and I can make stuff up if need be), so let's put on a show and try to be a debater! What have I to lose? Sure some people might make fun of my enthusiasm, but they are just jealous deep down that they care too much about what other's think, and should learn to live a little!

That's just some advice really, I'm sorry to hear you have regrets. D:

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@Noctis and @TheTwin

I get what you both say about them being called 'Sins' not being specifically a 'good way' to describe or relate to other INFPs who may have different beliefs! xD

I was using the sin names of 'Sloth' and 'Pride' as they are the closest relations to how I feel without having to describe my exact feelings which may take paragraphs. To me 'Pride' encapsulates quite a lot of life - both the 'good' and the 'bad' qualities of it, such as: idealism (which isn't necessarily 'evil' unless it consumes your whole life, and all you ever do is idealise and never ever 'live' your life), perfectionism (which isn't necessarily an 'evil' unless it erodes at your life and prevents you from doing things you could be doing or trusting others to do things) etc. I don't see the 'Seven Deadly Sins' in the same way as a fundamentalist Christian community would; I believe they are ways of describing 'desires' (often with negativity involved) that can lead to doing harm to others, or yourself. For example perfectionism can be classed as an 'evil' in the way that it can lead to doubt in your own and other's abilities, and often helps to 'aid' bad feelings.

In my eyes, a person who has 'none' of these desires to some degree is lying as most of them are linked (and often unpreventable) in terms of human nature and your genetics (such as a person with a greater sex drive will probably be more 'guilty' of Lust even though they cannot help it), meaning that nobody is without 'Sin' in their lives. Although I do agree with the teaching that, if possible, it would be wise to tone down and recognise the 'Sins' you relate most to in order to live a, mentally, healthier life.

I am actually a liberal believer but not a follower of any 'strict' religion so sorry if I offended either of you!

~~~~~~

Just [/B @Noctis

I get that to some degree; perfectionism is often a draw back for me. :/

~~~~~~

Just [/B @TheTwin

I have to say I found your research very interesting! I did not know a lot of those facts, so thank you for sharing!

Although, being from a Christian background I'd have to somewhat disagree on this:

"You have to work! You don't have time to pause! Work 24/7! No time to waste!" It is connected very heavily to the influence of Christianity."

^ Christianity, in both the New and the Old Testament, clearly support the idea of resting! God even created a day, Sunday, and rested on it. Christianity was 'developed from' Judaism which believes that the Sabbath is a Holy day that you must not work on as it will damage you; you're not even allowed to cook on that day if you look back into early Christianity; it is a day for rest and connection with yourself and God.

Teachings such as these, all suggest that resting is good for body and mind, all of which are from the Bible:

“One hand full of rest is better than two fists full of labor and striving after wind.”
- Ecclesiastes 4:6

"Rest is admitting that we are but sheep who need a Shepherd"
- Psalm 23:1

"Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat, drink the sweet, and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not sorrow, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”


So the Levites quieted all the people, saying, “Be still, for the day is holy; do not be grieved.”"
- Nehemiah 8:9-12


So, to me, Christianity is not the reason for today's 24/7 modern working style; I personally believe that people have grown impatient due to automated machines, and want to make money more quickly and faster and now have ways of doing so.

Although I thank you for your opinions and respect them also.

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@StElmosDream

That was a very insightful post!

I get what you mean by it, I'm especially guilty of the Sloth turn 'productive' in the way you describe. I am very interested in the way you portrayed the need of balance between hubris and humility, I hadn't thought of that before. :3

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@phantom_ecstasy

I'm intrigued! Why is Envy greater for you, can you elaborate? (Feel free to ignore this if you don't want to, just curious. :3)

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@Nekomata

... >o>

-Steals her cookies to make her Greed mad- xD!

Hahaha, I, too, have some Greed... I think, to be honest, my idealisation is a bit of 'greed' showing in there, after all it I often idealise myself with some kind of self-gain. :'3

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@Ptarmingan

I agree that it serves a self-protecting purpose to be honest; although I 'try' everything, if I try something and find I'm not very good I often don't wish to try it again.

Ahh, IQ tests?

I am currently scared of taking one as my family are 'so high', but on the tests I've done online I'm usually around 115 or so, which makes me feel very inferior to other relatives, some of which go as high as 164 in IQ!

"Your only purpose is to nurture life, to care for life, to preserve life, to balance life, the life of everything in the world. What is the meaning of your specialness in that? How good you are or how you make others proud? Your success or money or the kind of car you drive? How much of a legend you can make of yourself? You are just a part of the universe. You are of it, all you are, your every thought and feeling."

^ This post is beautiful, thank you for sharing that!

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@Bago

"It's only through time that it made me more and more weary as people do not want to share things or that they do not want the things that you want to share with such that.. well.... It closes one's heart. "

^ That to me is also the case, when I was younger I used to feel so happy when I made someone smile, I often shared stuff and other children often abused me because of it. And time, as you say, seems to make us vulnerable more so to not being so 'innocent'. :'3

 

[Bluefireluv]

"At least now I know I'm good at something ...Hahahas what nonsense xD"

^ Makes me think that you probably have low self esteem issues due to what your describing. D:

I remember that feeling well, although, in my situation my Pride (as I think, looking back on it now, my Pride was 10 times as strong as my Sloth) actually got me to do incredibly well; I wanted to 'prove' myself to all of those people from my primary school that thought I was incredibly dumb, so I forced myself to work, even when I was at the lowest of the low. :'3

"I'll feel so happy and smart and just so great... then I'll meet some problem I can't solve."

^ This was sort of covered in your 4) bullet point, but with a slightly different tone. I used to have this problem when I felt really academically stupid, and I still have this feeling as well when I go through questions.

The way I get passed that is to just take a breath, close your eyes for a few seconds and just collect yourself, try to search your thoughts and feelings! If the answer does not spring to mind straight away, don't worry about it! Stressing actually only makes it worse, and I often move on to another question, and the answer to the one I don't know appears before me! Nobody in the world is perfect, nobody has the answers to everything - not even Google, so it's OK to forget things and examiners know this too!

Tell yourself that it's just one question, you'll have time at the end to deal with it, you'll only be wasting time sitting there wondering what to do when there's probably a question up ahead you can answer, and that the next question will probably be better! Then leave it alone, and go onto the next question. Sometimes if I know 'something' about the answer, but not quite everything I'll write down a few words, or maybe an equation or two and that can get you some marks - you'll feel better this way, and learn more this way than if you go on to look at the answers.

If you don't have time to go back to it, just tell yourself that you did the best you could, that the question was only worth x marks out of y marks, and be proud of yourself, reward yourself and I hope it helps. :3

Aww you took the time to reply to everyone <3 Thank you so much! Yeah I tend to have low self confidence hahahas, but it was way worse last year. I just felt like a nobody because everybody had one talent or more and I couldnt do anything... or so I thought! The thing is, the mentality I had last year just made me really really unhealthy and I basically gave up and told everyone "It's okay, I'll just fail and become a cleaner!" Not that becoming a cleaner is necessarily bad, but it's not something you'd want to do when your 17 or in your 20's or maybe even 30's! What woke me up was an argument with that INTJ friend of mine, and during the time we were apart I bexame quite lonely, and this actually helped a lot because I started reflecting on why we could have fallen apart so much... and decided my negativity was probably bringing her down. Also it made me more open towards lettung others in, which is how I got closer to my INFP friend! Otherwise, she'd stilk be an acquaintance xD

I wouldnt say I'm perfectly confident now as you've pointed out, but I've at least let myself REALLY listen to others' compliment and not just brush them off, so at least I know I'm good at a few things, regardless of whether theyy'd come in handy or not! Still working on improving my confidence, honestly that's probably why my outlook is so much more positive and why I'm starting to try now!

Thank you so so much for your tip on the next point I actually did that yesterday and got all happy over having completed 10/12 questions, 1 of which was entirely solved by myself even though it seemed quite hard (got frustrated, calmed down, carefully analysed, tada!) I thought that question was only solved by chance because of luck, but after reading what you said I realized that was how I came to solve it and that I should work like that more! I really appreciate it, shall keep that in mind whenever I'm doing work!

 

[Distill]

Your post is really great, thank you very much for it as it got me to think a lot! :3

I get what you're saying about the self confidence issues, in all honesty, I didn't really believe I had them until I had a recent chat with my ENTP mother about what 'self confidence' is. She said that it was a 'belief that you can deal with something regardless of what happens as you know you'll be able to manage', whereas I believed it was 'a delusional belief that you are without flaws and are perfectly strong', which she (quite rightly) said was 'Pride' and showed that she believed I had little to no self confidence from her definition.

Growing up in a strong T centric family didn't help my confidence too much, as if I do something for them they often focus solely on the negatives and not on the positives. And I do admit, I am guilty of what you say: "looking for validation from others" and having a "habit of unhealthy judging" for sure; I always try to please my family and friends (which usually fails and leads to my idealism, or 'Pride', never being fulfilled making my Sloth grow stronger), and I always compare myself to others, constantly - if I don't, my family always do; and I always seek validation and advice from people as I am on this forum!

I think the advice you gave was excellent, I'll probably have lots of trouble with actually 'stopping' judging people mentally and looking for validation from others.

Any more tips on not comparing yourself to others?

I'd probably struggle mainly due to my family always doing it, and they don't stop. xD

@Siara - thanks for taking the time to reply to everyone!

I think that definition of self-confidence is a good one. Belief in one's abilities and believing one to be without flaws (and to aim for this) are two very different things but are so easily conflated. My family can be very judgemental too, so recently I've started to challenge my family's judgements when they come up (not in an aggressive way, but often in a Devil's Advocate style). I stay reasonable and qualify my position so that it doesn't turn into a heated argument, and I think it spurs healthy debate. For example, last night my father (ISTJ) was ranting about how "immigrants make no effort to integrate...expect everything to be translated into their language" etc. (ironically, my mum is a Malaysian immigrant, but whatever). INFPs are often described as being able to see situations from all sides, something that I definitely relate to, so I calmly talked about what things may be like from an immigrant's perspective. Nothing blew up or anything, so I think it was successful. I think challenging a judgemental environment is important, and it's good practice for the harder task of not judging yourself too harshly.

As for advice...so, you're probably most likely to either i) extrapolate an event, leading to self-criticism, or ii) unreasonably criticise others. Both of these become sort of positive feedback loops of negativity (ha), and I think it's pretty common in INFPs due to inferior Te which leads us to drawing conclusions where there are none to be drawn (I think this is true, correct me if I'm wrong, peeps).

i) Self-criticism

Neither of these scenarios are particularly imaginative, but they're at least practical I guess. Say you're walking down the street, and someone you know walks past you without noticing (yup, this one). A typical critical loop may look something like this:

Why didn't they notice me? -> I hate feeling invisible -> Well, I wouldn't be invisible if I had a half-decent personality -> They probably saw me and ignored me -> Why would they want to talk to me anyway? -> Plus I look like shit today -> etc.

Essentially, it's spiralling irrationality based on ridiculous assumptions, but at the time they seem so real.

ii) Criticism of Others

You go to a coffee shop, walk out, take a sip, and find that it's not to your liking.

Eurgh, the barista messed up my coffee -> They're so stupid! -> Plus they looked terrible today -> I bet they were out on the piss last night -> They're totally irresponsible -> etc.


So, a few things: I have a little hypothesis I need to test that for people with low self-confidence in the case of i), everything relates back to the self, whereas in ii), nothing relates to the self, because as soon as we add ourselves (of whom we already have a low opinion), it'll break the loop. In that way, it's only implicitly comparative, a put down which makes us feel better for about 0.26 seconds but without championing ourselves (e.g. "I could do this better).

There are two effective ways of dealing with these problems that I've found - firstly, mindfulness; secondly, applying rationality. I often use the mindfulness to break the loop, and afterwards review the situation rationally to see why I made the judgement.

Mindfulness is really useful - I've used it to break loops before they start dragging you down into the abyss, and it seems to work for either situation. There's plenty of literature on it (I read the book by Jon Kabat-Zinn et al. entitled "The Mindful Way Through Depression" which contains a really good set of exercises. I'm sure you can find a guide to basic mindfulness practice and philosophy online).

If I find myself starting to make a rash judgement on people or on myself (so, at the "Well, I wouldn't be invisible if I had a half-decent personality", or "They're so stupid!" stages), stop, gently acknowledge the judgement you've passed (and, more importantly, don't judge yourself for having made the judgement, just accept that you have! Remove it from the realms of "good" and "bad" and just let it be) and focus on your breath. The focus on the breath will switch your mind away from your thoughts, thus breaking the pattern of spiralling thoughts. It's not so easy at first, but once you get into the habit of it, it can become second nature.


Rationality can be used to challenge the false conclusions drawn by our Fi-Te loop which can fixate on one line of thinking and bypass Ne which conjures up other possible explanations for what is happening (please correct me if I'm wrong). In the case of self-criticism, you can engage Ne to examine whether they did, in fact, ignore you, or if they just didn't see you. In the case of criticising others, you'll notice that two irrational judgements have been made of the barista - "stupid" and "out on the piss last night". You can use rationality to challenge these statements and posit other ideas as to why the person didn't look so good today (insomnia? partner trouble? etc.) As I said, using rationality retrospectively after using mindfulness is also great for examining your snap judgements. And, as mentioned before, don't judge yourself for making snap judgements of people. It's not an indictment on your character, and the fact that you're working hard on it to eliminate it in the first place counts for a lot.


I will say that I love observing people critically. People watching is one of my favourite pastimes (in a totally non-creepy way), it's a question of why and how you do it. I think it can be a really healthy exercise in observing behaviour and suchlike, so long as you're engaging your functions in a balanced way. Most of the time, it's impossible to draw conclusions from people, and that's one thing you should keep in mind to keep your Te in check.

Let me know if you have any questions and suchlike, and I hope this helps you Good luck! It can be hard at times, but it's really worth it and makes me feel somehow lighter.

 

[haijakingu]

@Siara
Hey, thanks for the advice. Indeed. I always tell myself to live without regrets and to live dangerously. Unfortunately, I always hold back because I'm never confident with anything. But that's not living life to the fullest which I find that lack of confidence be a hindrance to anything.
Probably one reason I reflected upon on this overly self-degradation is my tendency to compare myself with other people...who I project an ideal from them...which is probably wrong. I am frustrated but never even trying to do anything because I tell myself "I'm only until x level". I would then cover up this insecurity with consoling myself that 'it's okay/I suck lol' or 'because they're better'; I have my own good qualities too I think.
"Admiration is happy self-surrender; envy is unhappy self-assertion." Soren Kierkegaard. I believe that I never really understood this quote and only took it at a surface level: comparing myself with people. But it's actually aiming at developing one's self. Which I would relate to your timely advice.

Maybe I'm just being unfair to myself and don't give myself a chance to act.

@Distill
Lol. This hit bulls eye. Mindfulness and rational go hand in hand very well. I'd take this advice. Thanks.