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Discussion Starter #1
I'm currently working on a group project with an ENTx as the team leader. He is friendly and very excited about and commited to the project so that's good. The problem is he isn't very bright, but thinks he knows just about everything there is to know...about everything. He is pretty smug and patronising about it too, but in a very subtle way. Actually I don't think he even knows he's doing it.

It's pretty frustrating, because the TEAM element is not really working.

Anyone with advice on how to handle it without eventually killing him or myself?
 

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What I did (but that wasn't the brightest thing) was pick one thing where you are sure he's dead wrong, attack that, destroy it. Do that a few times and in a while they'll start to listen.
 

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I don't want to kill my career just yet. I can't go into the details, but UNFORTUNATELY I have to be civilised about this...otherwise I would've done that :wink:
 

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well the queston is, do you really need him to not be dumb and patronising?

you're really just working there, so you can just work around his flaws while not really paying them any attention

for example if you have a report to write you can also write your own recommendations and give them with the report, that's it
 

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Discussion Starter #5
well the queston is, do you really need him to not be dumb and patronising?

you're really just working there, so you can just work around his flaws while not really paying them any attention

for example if you have a report to write you can also write your own recommendations and give them with the report, that's it
Actually, I've been thinking about something like that. The problem is it's part of a course and we get evaluated on our behaviour in the team framework. I do not want to screw it up, so as long as I can get it done with a smile it'll be great. At home I can quickly tell someone, "You're being an idiot. Stop it."

In the end we have to do a presentation though, so I can't sneak anything in. The team needs to agree on everything concerning our 'solution', but at this point in time HE thinks our solution equals HIS solution.

Maybe I'm pre-empting things a little. I just get very frustrated with that kind of behaviour. He's also not very interested in structure. He seems to want to wait until closer to the end to get something together and in the mean time we are going round in circles *sigh*
 

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You can argue in a civilized fashion you know. It depends a bit of the line of work. I work in a pretty exact field, and tehre is a clear right and wrong way of doing things. If you can spot a clearly wrong thing he does, just tell him, politely yet firmly.

The other alternative would just be not to care.

I like that whole "behavior in a team framework" thing for evaluation. Very good for promoting groupthink, and making sure a company wastes way too many resources at a problem.
 

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Actually, I've been thinking about something like that. The problem is it's part of a course and we get evaluated on our behaviour in the team framework. I do not want to screw it up, so as long as I can get it done with a smile it'll be great. At home I can quickly tell someone, "You're being an idiot. Stop it."

In the end we have to do a presentation though, so I can't sneak anything in. The team needs to agree on everything concerning our 'solution', but at this point in time HE thinks our solution equals HIS solution.

Maybe I'm pre-empting things a little. I just get very frustrated with that kind of behaviour. He's also not very interested in structure. He seems to want to wait until closer to the end to get something together and in the mean time we are going round in circles *sigh*
Several plans came to mind:
- Just sit back and watch the ship burn (if you can afford to do that). This way he won't be in the lead next time.
- Go up and ask him, "what's my job?" (assuming you are able to divide the work like that). So when shit hits the fan you can say "hey, I did my job, but you on the other hand..."
- Hold a no competence vote?
- Tell your superiors about him? (Need some more details of the hierarchal structure though)
 

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Sounds like a typical ENTJ!

You could always just ask him nicely for him to clarify why he chose to take certain paths, etc... and gently raise the issue that there's something wrong with his logic in the form of a "what if...?" question (or something similar).
 

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If it's possible, obtain some measure of independence for "your" section. If you don't have a section, show very high enthusiasm for one part of the presentation and pitch some great ideas. Assuming he's not a total bone-head, he'll give you some rope and let you run with it.

There are two possible outcomes after this:

1) When you present your section to your team for review, they'll be impressed at the quality of your work. Your scope of influence has widened.

2) Your team leader will be impressed and put your section in, possibly with his own revisions. But word will get out about who made that really awesome part of the presentation.

Or you could go with innocent Socratic dialogue as mentioned by NastyCat.
 
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Sounds like a typical ENTJ!

You could always just ask him nicely for him to clarify why he chose to take certain paths, etc... and gently raise the issue that there's something wrong with his logic in the form of a "what if...?" question (or something similar).
Dude. Sounds rather like an ENTP if any NT.

Structure is our middle name. It's your first name, though.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Dude. Sounds rather like an ENTP if any NT.
Yes, I was thinking ESTP. Either way, the P is very clear in this situation.

EDIT: I've been looking at profiles and I will also say ENTP actually. It fits his behaviour better than ESTP.

EDIT (2): I give up...I'm not sure what he is, but I don't think it's ENTJ...
 

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Oh how I love working in teams that are not really teams. Here are some ideas that come to mind.

If this is just a training exercise then don't sweat it, it will be over soon.

If it has a real impact on the company, then you need to figure out how your plan impacts the flow of money. That is your most powerful argument. When you bring your plan up, don't do it as an attack on his plan, but you are bringing it up for the good of the company. If you have found a way to save or make money, as a good team player, you are obligated to bring it up. This is even better if the other person's plan will actually lose money.

If this team is working on something that will not impact the flow of money then you are on the wrong team anyway.

In church we called this "playing the God card" in a company, even most non-profits, it the "money card" that wins. A close second in some companies in the "green card" or "environment card."

It may be a cynical way of looking at things, but in the end it is reality. If you are not saving or making money for the company, you are not needed and sooner or later someone will realize that.
 
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