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How do you find Te users? Regardless of dom/aux/tert? How do you find yourself avoiding clashes? Do you need to consciously?

I've noticed something my ENTP does to satisfy my Te which alarms me a little. He often lies. He'll first work out whatever he thinks is right either internally by his logic or estimated from old research what is probable. I don't particularly trust his memories. I need proof and evidence for something being the case so instead of jumping through the hoops to convince me that the evidence is there the conversation will turn from "I think X" to "Oh, yeah I was told X by reputable person yesterday" or "I saw X in a documentary last week" because he knows his word isn't enough. At first I'd thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, I'm a gullible and an accepting person, he knows that. I've been seeing these lies stretch into less and less believable things or even unravel when we do something and suddenly all that evidence doesn't exist and he'll shrug with a "Oh, I guess I was wrong". It's always with the common goal for me to do what he wants, it's more alarming when it's for life changing choices.

Besides doing my own research to back up or contradict his words I don't know what to do. I mean I shouldn't have to find a list of references, I should be able to trust him.
 

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Why does he need to make Ti look like Te anyways? What wrong with him deducing something from his own logic? Ones not superior to the other, they are just different.

Anyways i have a lot of experience with Te. Im surrounded in my home. Dad is intj, mom is enfp, bro is infp (maybe also an enfp.). Even have an entj uncle. Surrounded. Lol. With heavy te users i filter a ton more. Usually its my Ne that is driving them crazy because its not always practical. But with my thinking process they tend to find it too slow and get really impatient with it and think im doing something wrong because of it. Im not its different. They both have thier strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he just needs to grow his Ti more. Not jump into Te.


The thing is...if someone constantly was blowing off what i was saying because it didnt fit thier logic, id feel really disrespected and might even lie too. For me (now this i can really see being me specific) if im lying like that im sort of also blowing it off to avoid a conflict.

Ever heard of the parent-child dynamic that can happen in relationships? Basically contempt can sneak its way into a relationship without people knowing. One partner just thinks there way is better and has to "parent" the other into doing something better. Thats bad. The other person feels attacked and/or disrespected so they respond sometimes by acting the "child" by either withdrawing or having an outburst(yelling).also bad and the cycle continues and it just gets worse. I just went through this so im mentioning it. Im not saying this is whats happening im just spreading awareness. I have no idea. Thsts just where my mind jumped to first. But when i acted like that...i was withdrawing because i didnt feel respected and didnt appreciate being looked down upon. Its a very common thing that happens sometimes.
 

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Why does he need to make Ti look like Te anyways? What wrong with him deducing something from his own logic? Ones not superior to the other, they are just different.
He doesn't, and I didn't ever consciously ask him to frame his arguments this way it's just something I've realised he worked out he had to in order to get me on his side of the argument. And it isn't necessarily superior but it's just the way I process information better that and recently he's had enough failures and idiotic moments to make me doubt his competence.

Anyways i have a lot of experience with Te. Im surrounded in my home. Dad is intj, mom is enfp, bro is infp (maybe also an enfp.). Even have an entj uncle. Surrounded. Lol. With heavy te users i filter a ton more. Usually its my Ne that is driving them crazy because its not always practical. But with my thinking process they tend to find it too slow and get really impatient with it and think im doing something wrong because of it. Im not its different. They both have thier strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he just needs to grow his Ti more. Not jump into Te.
Sounds likely that he does. I'd have no idea how I'd even encourage that though. And I don't think I can relate to getting impatient with his logic, he's more likely to get impatient with mine.

The thing is...if someone constantly was blowing off what i was saying because it didnt fit thier logic, id feel really disrespected and might even lie too. For me (now this i can really see being me specific) if im lying like that im sort of also blowing it off to avoid a conflict.
Yeah, sounds like that's probably his motivation too. :/

Ever heard of the parent-child dynamic that can happen in relationships? Basically contempt can sneak its way into a relationship without people knowing. One partner just thinks there way is better and has to "parent" the other into doing something better. Thats bad. The other person feels attacked and/or disrespected so they respond sometimes by acting the "child" by either withdrawing or having an outburst(yelling).also bad and the cycle continues and it just gets worse. I just went through this so im mentioning it. Im not saying this is whats happening im just spreading awareness. I have no idea. Thsts just where my mind jumped to first. But when i acted like that...i was withdrawing because i didnt feel respected and didnt appreciate being looked down upon. Its a very common thing that happens sometimes.
... Haha, yeah... I'm not saying that isn't happening.
 

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I think that thinkers are good at both Te and Ti. The reason I say this is because Te and Ti aren't mutually exclusive. xxTPs build our own understanding of the world around, but this isn't based on nothing. Our understanding is firmly rooted in reality. Rarely will you ever see an xNTP who's completely disconnected to reality. If I come up with a theory of something, it makes sense to me and it fits nicely with my understanding of reality. And, from my experience, individuals with high Te often understand this. They're not incapable of inductive thinking either. If I clash with a Te user, it's because Te users are pushed into action whereas my focus is different. From what I have observed, xxTJs don't enjoy thinking for the sake of thinking They want results for the effort they spent thinking. We don't clash because I don't understand how Te works or because they don't understand how Ti works.

Honestly, the people who clash with me over this are people with low thinking. xxFJs sometimes have a hard time dealing with facts that don't fit in with their understanding of the world. xxFPs can sometimes look at facts and come to completely nonsensical conclusions. (I'm not saying that all feelers are like this. I'm not saying that thinkers are superior to feelers either.)

It's frustrating to have to explain my thoughts to other people, especially if they have already made up their mind to disagree with me even before listening to what I have to say. I'm not saying that I never make mistakes - I do, and if I'm wrong, I should be corrected. I'm saying that just because I don't go over the facts with a fine toothed comb like a strong Te user, I shouldn't be dismissed as automatically wrong. Ti is as valid as Te. If your partner has a high degree of accuracy, then I don't see why you can't trust him? If he's wrong more times than right, then sure, it's a problem and I understand that you can't trust him.
 

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As an xNTP, sometimes, it's difficult to communicate with someone who lacks Ti because it's difficult for them to derive the logic themselves. So, the things that I say need to be backed by this person's list of authorities OR it has to be very simple to understand. It's actually a fun exercise, to make something simple enough so that they can understand. I think this is why people with strong Fi are usually very good at designing user interfaces, because they don't have layers and layers of abstract logic to obfuscate the design.

Interacting with Te dom/aux is more direct because they can generally follow the logic. I'd still simplify for them (say, just the useful part instead of what IS), but not as much as Te tert/inf.

Of course, the aforementioned scenarios are about discussions on topics that are somewhat complex. Majority of everyday conversations are very simple and direct.
 

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Weak Te is goddamn exhausting. It's too ... pure. Yes, pure. It's like weak Te users don't want to think about things for their own sake -- they need to have a goal in mind to even start.

I kind of like talking to INTJs though. Strong Te is entralling yet confusing. Sort of like being separated by a common language and trying to figure out the levers. Weak Te doesn't even offer that pleasure.
 

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In Canada we have a term called "sharp practice".

Typically it is reference to law and business practices yet the
principle remains true for relationships as well.


The idea is that someone will use cunning behavior to put forth their truths
that are not entirely lies yet not entirely truthful either.
Its like lying about a moral for example. Its only a lie of you believe it
to be untrue. So its sneaky. I use sharp practice a lot. ENTP use it a lot.

Basically you are sure your not sure but put forth something that may be sure
because it is so damn close it might as well be sure.
Deal with the fall out later.

We dont mind being wrong as ENTP and we also always want to have an answer. So it becomes a
tough time at certain points to just say "well fuck I dont know shit". We would rather put something out there
than nothing at all. I mean it has to at least make sense. Sharp practice is always in line
with what is being spoken on. It is not a lie for the sake of it.


Clear as mud?
 

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As an xNTP, sometimes, it's difficult to communicate with someone who lacks Ti because it's difficult for them to derive the logic themselves. So, the things that I say need to be backed by this person's list of authorities OR it has to be very simple to understand. It's actually a fun exercise, to make something simple enough so that they can understand. I think this is why people with strong Fi are usually very good at designing user interfaces, because they don't have layers and layers of abstract logic to obfuscate the design.

Interacting with Te dom/aux is more direct because they can generally follow the logic. I'd still simplify for them (say, just the useful part instead of what IS), but not as much as Te tert/inf.

Of course, the aforementioned scenarios are about discussions on topics that are somewhat complex. Majority of everyday conversations are very simple and direct.
I have an ISTJ husband and I can tell you this is a very frustrating thing. I wouldn't say I lie to him but I find arguing is very frustrating with him because a) being a J, he thinks black and white which means it's hard for him to see middle ground (where most things in the world preside); b) he believes the source more than the actual facts presented (in other words, if an authority figure told him something that factually to me doesn't make sense he would believe it over a more accurate sounding fact coming from a less reliable source-he is getting better at this the older he gets though); and c) because Fi is in his stack too, he gets personally offended when you do not believe him 100% as a source of information as a Te "authority figure", even though my Ti tells me that it doesn't make sense or it is only partially true.

I will say, your ENTP's lying might come from his Fe. Since there is a chance your Fi get offended when he goes against what you might believe, he might be placating you so you are less likely to get offended. Our Fe tends to want to keep the situation happy or less heavy or not have people pissed at as more than actually caring how someone feels.

Really though, I find my Ne-Ti kind of has it's own litmus test so sometimes it is hard for me to put into words what my mind very quickly sifts through and someone with Te tends to wants you to describe exactly why and who you heard it from (often it is not from one person or source but a whole slew of things that we then process to make it our own idea using logical facts). I am trying to remember the topic of our conversation this weekend that really explains this but the for the life of me I cannot remember what it was except it was science concept. All I know is my husband has a continuing annoyance with scientists because so much of science is hypothesis that can change as new data is obtained (I'm a scientist BTW). He likes math because it is absolute while I find the fact that few things thing in science are absolute and that theories build on theories fascinating. He thinks that if a theory is proved not 100% correct, it is wrong, while in science, usually a portion of the theory might be right but there is another factor(s) that was at play that was not testable previously. Anyway, he brought up something and I was explaining what I knew about it. When he wanted me to back up the how scientists know this, I could not off the top of my head tell him. He complained about science being BS then. I explained that that area of science is not my expertise and what I know is derived from articles in Discover magazine and online things I read but I am sure that the backup data to how the theory was derived is available to view, I just do not have the information in my head. The problem is, I feel like my Ne-Ti immediately stores data in a compressed and interpreted fashion which means I cannot conjure up the exact source or word for word information unless I have done extensive research on it. The difference in that conversation is that I was not remotely upset he questioned me. If the roles were reversed, he would have been really pissed I questioned what he knew.
 

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Ever heard of the parent-child dynamic that can happen in relationships? Basically contempt can sneak its way into a relationship without people knowing. One partner just thinks there way is better and has to "parent" the other into doing something better. Thats bad. The other person feels attacked and/or disrespected so they respond sometimes by acting the "child" by either withdrawing or having an outburst(yelling).also bad and the cycle continues and it just gets worse. I just went through this so im mentioning it. Im not saying this is whats happening im just spreading awareness. I have no idea. Thsts just where my mind jumped to first. But when i acted like that...i was withdrawing because i didnt feel respected and didnt appreciate being looked down upon. Its a very common thing that happens sometimes.
Amen to that. The sicker the human the more this "child" comes out. Its literal insanity. The person can't comprehend what is being explained, but feels emotional because it hits the nail on the head. So delusional psychosis is the only thing left to keep the superego blocked.
 

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I have an ISTJ husband and I can tell you this is a very frustrating thing. I wouldn't say I lie to him but I find arguing is very frustrating with him because a) being a J, he thinks black and white which means it's hard for him to see middle ground (where most things in the world preside); b) he believes the source more than the actual facts presented (in other words, if an authority figure told him something that factually to me doesn't make sense he would believe it over a more accurate sounding fact coming from a less reliable source-he is getting better at this the older he gets though); and c) because Fi is in his stack too, he gets personally offended when you do not believe him 100% as a source of information as a Te "authority figure", even though my Ti tells me that it doesn't make sense or it is only partially true.
ISTJ has Te as aux, and their Ti is even weaker. So, it's not their strength to check for logical consistency, but it's better than Fi tert/inf. That being said, it's important to appreciate what they are good at. Te means effectiveness, along with Fi, it means that they are expert at effectively getting the things that they want/value. If what they want conflicts with the facts, there's a chance that they would just look for a different source to match what they want. This can be viewed in a more positive light of loyalty. Personally, I value the truth over loyalty, although I can see myself in situations where I would sacrifice even truth for loyalty, but these situations don't occur very often or at all.
 
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