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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello Sixes,

I had a terrible weekend. On Friday, my husband discovered me in the midst of seizure (had not had one for four years, and had been through several tests). Anyway, it took a long time for me to regain consciousness: for about a half hour after the seizure, when DH asked me "Where are you now"?, I was responding with where I was at mentally: I kept telling him all kinds of stuff about philosophy, how I was really an E1 and not an E6, etc.

Well, I actually had the insight hit me the night before (Thursday). See, for me, there is a very fine line between 6 and 1. Heck, my counsellor, who is the one who got me interested in the Enneagram, never even considered six. She thought I was a 1 or a 4, after I told her that I was indeed a 1.

So, how do I know that I am a 1? Well, I had to ask myself a lot of hard questions. People here know me as a non-conformist, and that is true. I am also the type of person who will come to another's defense if I believe it's warranted. Why? It isn't counterphobia.

It's my conscience. When I speak up, it's because I feel I must stand up for my beliefs in that instant. I believe it's the right thing to do, for myself, at least. Also, I looked at my self-esteem validation strategy (i.e. looking at those who behave very different from me). What I learned that was for me, this is a way of testing my boundaries. I left my religion six years ago, and have mentioned that here before. When I examined my main motivation for leaving, it was obvious that the main thing that pushed me out was corruption and hypocrisy in the Church. I figured, if there is a God (or more than one) then that deity would not support a church that promoted a cover-up of such a scandal.
Leaving was not easy- I was promised eternal hell for that action. I was looking for security in an unsecure situation, and I think at some point, something said to me: "You'll figure this out. You know your intentions. Any decent God would see that you are trying to do the right thing." And that is the belief that kept me secure throughout that difficult time. I had recurring nightmares about my parents finding out after. Also, in the past, I had occasional dreams about the afterlife. The good vs. evil theme really showed up a lot in my life.

Re: the inner critic that ones often feel they have inside themselves: I think if you are trying to decide between Type 1 and another type, you have to listen to what that inner critic says. Sometimes, the messages you hear back are downright nasty. Here are some messages my inner critic tells me:

-"You are a disgusting, bad person. If people knew what you were really like, they'd want nothing to do with you."

-"You are a slut-wannabe" (I was raised to believe that sex was bad, plus I have some medical issues that make intimacy a challenge, so that's where that idea comes from).

-"You are selfish, evil and bad, for being jealous of people who get things that you don't have. Yeah, you've worked hard to improve things. So what? You don't deserve anything good, you bitch"

(If I see a picture of a good looking man, and think of what I'd like to do to him given the chance): "You can't think like that, you're married. That is *emotional infidelity*"

The words "selfish", "evil", and "disgusting" are words that I use repeatedly. When I learned that my inner critic was having a heyday with these messages, that clinched it for me. I have been called a perfectionist. One label applied to me by my high school principal was "The Perfectionist Who is Her Own Worst Critic". I thought, with a label like that, Type 1 is too oversimplified. But sometimes, the simplest explanation is indeed the correct one. And in this case, it was the correct one.

Feel free to ask me any questions, but please also be patient with me. The seizure really messed things up, but I think it happened for a reason.

So there you have it. I am a 1, not a 6. But I still think 6s are awesome, and all of you have been really kind to me. I actually feel an immense sense of peace, being a 1, that I didn't have when I believed I was a 6.
 

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Sorry, I just don't see you thinking in terms of rules/regulation or problems with the world creating a sense of idealism. You feel bad or guilty because of your conscience but I don't really see anything there indicative of a 1. Hope you don't take my disagreement personally.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sorry, I just don't see you thinking in terms of rules/regulation or problems with the world creating a sense of idealism. You feel bad or guilty because of your conscience but I don't really see anything there indicative of a 1. Hope you don't take my disagreement personally.
That's an interesting point. With regards to rules and regulations: the person I try to control most is *me*, not other people. I am very, very image conscious, and I have this terrible fear that people will see me as "bad" or "perverse". I have learned how to shut the inner critic up more effectively now than I did before, but that doesn't mean I don't still have an inner critic.

I have given a lot of thought to rules and regulations before. Yes, there are rules and regulations that I don't agree with. But even the disagreements I have are moralistic in nature. I've made a lot of remarks about how I am fed up with the justice system, and I actually plan to enter the legal field. There are many reasons why I want to go there, but one reason is because I don't like what I see. And I feel for those who find themselves trying to navigate through the legal system where I'm at. So wanting to be a voice of reason to those who are trying to navigate a confusing system is certainly a motivation for entering it.

You can be a 1 and be willing to challenge systems. I see a lot of disgusting things in a number of "systems" (eg. the legal system, the health care system, and some religions). I think because I was abused, I saw a lot of things in terms of "good" and "evil" from an early age. I don't use those words extensively in my everyday vocabulary because they are extreme. I do remember thinking that I never, ever wanted to become like my family or like my former classmates, and that is because I knew they were in the wrong as far as their actions are concerned. I remember thinking, "I must never, ever become like these people. Their actions are evil."

By the way, if anyone wants to know if my worldview is based on compassion or justice, then I would say justice first. That said, I believe that in some instances, compassion is just.

Not all Type 1s are super-strict disciplinarians. Many of us really want to control ourselves, not others. I don't need to boss others around. That said, when it comes to me, I am my own boss. And when I believe I've tried my best to do right- even though I don't know what that always is- then I feel immensely secure. Like I said earlier, a question I often ask myself when unsure how to act is this: "Can I, in good conscience, do such and such action?" That is the tie-breaker at the end of the day, for me.
 

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That's an interesting point. With regards to rules and regulations: the person I try to control most is *me*, not other people. I am very, very image conscious, and I have this terrible fear that people will see me as "bad" or "perverse". I have learned how to shut the inner critic up more effectively now than I did before, but that doesn't mean I don't still have an inner critic.
This inner critic you speak of is your conscience, and more than 1s feel the strain. 1s are objective in their dealings with what should be done and not, and do not just put such feelings aside as you speak of or they're corrupt. The 1 is based around an ideology, as 6s seem to form beliefs but it is not as though they have taken up moralism as a way of life. 6s are known to be very conscientious, particularly for the underdog and people they care about. 1s just have a principle and it is always applied to everyone with minimal regard for personal bias.


I have given a lot of thought to rules and regulations before. Yes, there are rules and regulations that I don't agree with. But even the disagreements I have are moralistic in nature. I've made a lot of remarks about how I am fed up with the justice system, and I actually plan to enter the legal field. There are many reasons why I want to go there, but one reason is because I don't like what I see. And I feel for those who find themselves trying to navigate through the legal system where I'm at. So wanting to be a voice of reason to those who are trying to navigate a confusing system is certainly a motivation for entering it.
6s can be compassionate in following their conscience also. Some of the most hardlined religious people are 6s. I see an emphasis on thought behind the wrong doings instead of actions and rules to stop them.


You can be a 1 and be willing to challenge systems. I see a lot of disgusting things in a number of "systems" (eg. the legal system, the health care system, and some religions). I think because I was abused, I saw a lot of things in terms of "good" and "evil" from an early age. I don't use those words extensively in my everyday vocabulary because they are extreme. I do remember thinking that I never, ever wanted to become like my family or like my former classmates, and that is because I knew they were in the wrong as far as their actions are concerned. I remember thinking, "I must never, ever become like these people. Their actions are evil."
I do see disgust with others, but I just don't see a principle oriented thought process.


By the way, if anyone wants to know if my worldview is based on compassion or justice, then I would say justice first. That said, I believe that in some instances, compassion is just.
I see a scorned 6.


Not all Type 1s are super-strict disciplinarians. Many of us really want to control ourselves, not others. I don't need to boss others around. That said, when it comes to me, I am my own boss. And when I believe I've tried my best to do right- even though I don't know what that always is- then I feel immensely secure. Like I said earlier, a question I often ask myself when unsure how to act is this: "Can I, in good conscience, do such and such action?" That is the tie-breaker at the end of the day, for me.
Nope, 1s have a rules based on principles and are action oriented. If they see wrong being done they always have a desire to change that action. 1s sometimes need to lower their standards for others, but they still hate the feeling and it gives them a headache. It is a focus on principles and placing blame where it is deserved to not let people get away with things.

Well, you have obviously made up your mind about being a 1, and no talking you down.
 

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I believe the order for me is: 1w2 6w5 4wx (undecided about the last one).

Yes, I really am a 1. :)


;_; whyyyyyy!? We lost another one.....^^ lol *crosses fingers for @Wake to be right hehe.

:ninja: Who cares if you aren't a 6, stay or at least visit once in a while.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have rules based on principles. And when I see wrong being done, I do wish to change it. Sometimes, though, I don't know the best course of action. So if I don't know what's best, then I will sometimes wait to act- no use making a bad situation worse.

The examples of things that my inner critic tells me have actually been inside my head for years (decades, even). It's just that now, I am more aware of the damage the inner critic does, and the various lies that she has told me over the years (and when you strive to meet impossibly high standards as a habit- and I definitely do- then self-deception will occur). Perfectionism, in my mind, is a light that blinds. You can be very deeply immersed in it, and not know the extent, until you really look at the situation as it is. I think with me, I was trying to make a difficult situation even more difficult- and I didn't know it. I've actually been in deep denial about how much of a problem my perfectionism is. It's not just *a* problem, but it is *the* problem for me. I just tend to gloss over my issues at times- don't want to put others in a bad mood.
 

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;_; whyyyyyy!? We lost another one.....^^ lol *crosses fingers for @Wake to be right hehe.

:ninja: Who cares if you aren't a 6, stay or at least visit once in a while.
You haven't "lost" me. For me, the line between 1 and 6 is very, very fine. And I have basically had terrible event after terrible event happen to me since the day I was born. Anyone who goes through extreme circumstances will have a hard time figuring out their type, IMO. Also (and this has nothing to do with MBTI testing), I am a very intuitive person, in the sense that I often "just know" or have a "gut feeling". This stuff was making no sense with core 6, as it is a head type. Type 1 is a gut type, so maybe that's why I've always had a sense of "I just know", or, if I don't know, then a sense of "I'll figure something out. I always do". Of course, that may have nothing to do with anything, but the idea did come to mind.
 

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You haven't "lost" me. For me, the line between 1 and 6 is very, very fine. And I have basically had terrible event after terrible event happen to me since the day I was born. Anyone who goes through extreme circumstances will have a hard time figuring out their type, IMO. Also (and this has nothing to do with MBTI testing), I am a very intuitive person, in the sense that I often "just know" or have a "gut feeling". This stuff was making no sense with core 6, as it is a head type. Type 1 is a gut type, so maybe that's why I've always had a sense of "I just know", or, if I don't know, then a sense of "I'll figure something out. I always do". Of course, that may have nothing to do with anything, but the idea did come to mind.
Soo..you are INTJ as well? :unsure: :\ oh yeah that kinda makes sense (the terrible event part)...especially when trying to figure out instinctuals...oh boy.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I don't know if I'm an INTJ. It's possible. I often test out as ISTJ, but I certainly could be an INTJ. The S vs N debate...oh well, I'll figure that out eventually, too. Now as for when "eventually" will be, I have no idea. It'll happen when it happens.
 

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Wow, you're like me, mistyping as a 6. It says you're "ecstatic" in your signature, and to me that's key in realizing you've found your true type...it's like everything clicks into place and you suddenly "get" yourself and your life. Sounds like you had quite a profound moment there.

As a 7, I have sort of a love-hate relationship with the type (one is my disintegration point! It's the worst in me, but also reminds me of my best!) It's nice to see a cool 1 around here (@Wake too). I would imagine with a 1, 4, and 6 in your tritype, you're going to have a huge, massive super-ego regardless of dominant type. You're even harder on yourself than I am to myself...but you seem alright to me!

I totally support you in all your "one-ness"!
 

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Wow, you're like me, mistyping as a 6. It says you're "ecstatic" in your signature, and to me that's key in realizing you've found your true type...it's like everything clicks into place and you suddenly "get" yourself and your life. Sounds like you had quite a profound moment there.

As a 7, I have sort of a love-hate relationship with the type (one is my disintegration point! It's the worst in me, but also reminds me of my best!) It's nice to see a cool 1 around here (@Wake too). I would imagine with a 1, 4, and 6 in your tritype, you're going to have a huge, massive super-ego regardless of dominant type. You're even harder on yourself than I am to myself...but you seem alright to me!

I totally support you in all your "one-ness"!
Thanks, @holyrockthrower

I support you in your 7-ness. :) I can see how behaving more like a 7 would make a 1 feel more secure (basically, the whole idea of just taking things easy- very different from what I am usually like). I think I may give more detail at a later time regarding how I came to this conclusion, but given the difficulties I've suffered lately, I must reveal things in small stages. That is the right thing for me. Sometimes, doing the right thing means looking after yourself and really challenging the inner critic. I've been in a lot of denial about how perfectionism was *the* problem, because, like I said, it's a light that blinds. And recognizing that is the first step to dealing with the issue.
 

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Oh, and this is how my mistype went:

-First time- Type correctly by chance. I saw so much of myself in Type 1 that I thought, "This must be it"
-Second Time- Ask myself some serious questions about the inconsistencies I have with Type 1, looked at all the other types, and realized that 6 made a lot of sense (and it does, still- it's my head fix)
-Third Time: -Ask myself some more serious questions, uncover a bunch of things that hit me on an emotional level (hey, my heart fix is 4), and then learn I was right the first time.

I'll always think of myself as an "honorary 6". Here's a way I think of it: Type 1 is where I live, but Type 6 is that close friend that I visit so often that I may as well live there (or stay for extended periods). Like I said to @Rim , no one has "lost" me. Because regardless how many times you mistype, you're still the same person you always were. The Enneagram is just a model that can be used to help understand why people behave differently, and what their motivations may be.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm glad you seem to be OK after the seizure!
Yeah, I'm really lucky. I had a seizure in public four years ago. Had I not been found by some passers-by, I could very well be dead today, as I was trying to walk into traffic (stuff like that will happen if you drift in and out of consciousness, because your brain is a complete mess in that state). Sometimes, when my emotions are getting carried away, I will think, "Did I really deserve to be saved? The reason for this is that I have struggled with suicidal ideation over the years. When I got really depressed a couple of years ago, I started looking up methods for ending it all. Now that made my guilt act up, and I told a few trusted people what was going on (I just can't lie). Long story short, I needed an intervention because I was deemed a danger to myself. I have recently learned that one reason I flip flop about suicide is because I still have unresolved issues about the afterlife. I always need to control myself, and because I can't control the afterlife, I wanted control of the dying process. I thought, "Well, if I can take away the unplanned nature of death, then at least I won't be having a panic attack about condemnation when it is time to leave this earth." That is the secondary reason for becoming suicidal. The first reason, of course, was to escape the pain. I also know that if I kill myself, people around me will be deeply hurt. I have visions where I see myself in the afterlife, and I see people still alive who are in an endless state of grief because I couldn't take life anymore. That's why it's a hard issue for me. On the one hand, I may escape my pain, but on the other, I will be adding to other peoples' pain. Moral issues really do weigh heavily on me. I just don't like to push my views onto others, as pushing others seems to make them more likely to behave in ways that I don't approve of.
 

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You might find this helpful. It's from the Enneagram Institute website:
Both are among the compliant types of the Enneagram. As noted in Personality Types (434-436), Ones are compliant to the demands of their superegos and their ideals, while Sixes are compliant to the demands of their superegos and other people, especially perceived allies or authority figures. We say that Ones have an "Inner Critic" in their heads, while Sixes have an "Inner Committee." What these two types have in common is the tendency to feel guilty when they do something contrary either to their ideals (Ones) or to the commitments to allies, beliefs, and authorities they have made (Sixes). Guilt feelings owing to strong consciences and the tendency to strike out either at themselves or at others (or both) are the main points of similarity between them. While Sixes may rarely mistake themselves for Ones or Ones misidentify themselves as Sixes, other people may be confused by some superficial similarities between them. (And, in fact, a Six with a Five-wing will more likely be confused with a One than a Six with a Seven-wing because of the seriousness and intensity that the Five-wing brings to the Six's overall personality.)

These two types are easy to distinguish, however, by noting the overall emotional tone of each type. Average Sixes are anxious, indecisive, ambivalent, and, above all, reactive. They find it difficult to relate to others with self-confidence as equals, tending either to become too dutiful and dependent or to go to the opposite extreme and become rebellious and defiant. Sometimes they get stuck in the middle and become ambivalent, indecisive, and vacillating.

These traits are almost completely absent in average Ones. Their overall emotional tone is one of self-controlled, impersonal efficiency, orderliness and propriety. Ones are emphatically not indecisive: they know their own minds and have opinions about everything, which they are more than willing to express to others. Ones are certain, and trying to convince others that they know the optimal way to do things. Sixes are uncertain, and rely on reassurance, back-up, familiar procedure, or the sanction of previously tested ideas and philosophies to help them come to decisions.

Average Ones are often so tightly self-controlled that they are able to keep their feelings at bay. They are frequently unaware of the degree of their tensions. Average Sixes struggle with more volatile feelings and have difficulty putting them aside–although they seldom express their feelings to others. Sixes carry considerable anxious tension and are more aware of it. Righteous anger, irritation, and moral indignation are the principal negative emotions in Ones, whereas fearfulness, suspicion, and anxiety are the principal negative feelings in Sixes. Moreover, while lower functioning Ones can be sarcastic and verbally abusive, they almost never let themselves get out of control and are seldom physically violent, whereas low functioning Sixes can more easily lose their tempers, sometimes erupting into hysterical reactions or even physical violence.

When it does arise, the confusion seems to stem from both types' overactive superegos. Both are "should" and "must" people: both feel obligated to take care of all duties before relaxing or attending to their own needs. Further down the Levels, both types exhibit a legalistic streak: Sixes at Level 6 are The Authoritarian Rebel and Ones at the same Level are The Judgmental Perfectionist. When their superegos are on more severe, both types are quite capable of telling others what to do, although in different ways and for different reasons. Ones moralize and scold, lecturing others in the name of an ideal about whatever issues are of concern to them. ("Do you have any idea how wasteful it is to use an air conditioner?") Ones do not hesitate to order others around, telling them what they should be doing so to improve themselves or to be more effective.

Sixes can also give orders, not because of rigid inner standards, but because they are afraid of what they see as the erratic, irresponsible conduct of others potentially disrupting the security and stability they are trying to maintain. They are angered and threatened by others "breaking the rules" and becoming more unpredictable. Sixes identify with certain beliefs or authority figures and internalize the values that they have learned from these sources of guidance. Once they have identified with what they have taken to be trustworthy sources of information about the world, Sixes can be aggressive toward anyone who does not accept the same values as they do. This is especially true when Sixes are more insecure–the more anxious they are, the more they want to cling to whatever positions or allegiances they still believe in. The indifference of others to their beliefs may infuriate Sixes as much as outright rejection of them does. Compare the personalities of George Bush (a Six) and Al Gore (a One), Meryl Streep (a One) and Meg Ryan (a Six) for examples of the similarities and differences of these two types.
 
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