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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So apparently women are up in arms over a satire video. It depicts a woman fulfilling 1950s gender roles, but if you listen to the lyrics, Trainor clearly states that she has a job and never learned to cook. Satire. SATIRE PEOPLE.

As a feminist though what offended me is not the satirical video, but that the message of the song increasingly becomes more demanding, controlling and entitled. It starts out asking for respect...then next thing you know she's saying she's never wrong, don't disagree with her, and if you open doors for her you might get head (implied through clever self censorship).

That's not feminism, folks. That's being one of two things: a spoiled brat, or a dominant woman who wants a sub as a husband. There's no equality in the song. It's just a fucking trainwreck, and what makes me annoyed is that MRA tools are going to take this as proof that feminism is about lording over them. Ugh, Meghan, and I liked All About That Bass so much.

 
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All About That Bass was just as problematic, imo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
All About That Bass was just as problematic, imo.
Some people think so because of the skinny bitches line, but she follows it by I'm just playing, I know you think you're fat. I think a lot of people took it as bashing slim women, but I don't think it's that at all.

I actually wanted to like Dear Future Husband and I would if she had made it about her own personal preference (she has every right to be a domme if she wants) but by making the video a satire of gender roles, she's clearly trying to communicate that she has a "message" for a collective audience.

She's some kind of ExFx I think, and she's showing a pattern of basically making all of her videos into what she apparently believes are social messages.

She has a right to express her individual sexuality, but it bothers me that it's implied that this message is feminist, when it's clearly something else.
 
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Some people think so because of the skinny bitches line, but she follows it by I'm just playing, I know you think you're fat. I think a lot of people took it as bashing slim women, but I don't think it's that at all.

I actually wanted to like Dear Future Husband and I would if she had made it about her own personal preference (she has every right to be a domme if she wants) but by making the video a satire of gender roles, she's clearly trying to communicate that she has a "message" for a collective audience.

She's some kind of ExFx I think, and she's showing a pattern of basically making all of her videos into what she apparently believes are social messages.

She has a right to express her individual sexuality, but it bothers me that it's implied that this message is feminist, when it's clearly something else.
The whole song is body shaming and unnecessary, though. The skinny bitches thing is just counter-productive to her ~ message.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The whole song is body shaming and unnecessary, though. The skinny bitches thing is just counter-productive to her ~ message.
I don't think the song is body shaming. I think she has a Beyonce kind of idea of empowerment, and I probably would like Dear Future Husband without the implication of the video, because I don't have a problem with people expressing who they are, and I think her music is catchy and her style is fun. ..what I disagree with is that she seems to want to make it a social message. She's making her personal pride in her individual traits into a social example.
 

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So apparently women are up in arms over a satire video. It depicts a woman fulfilling 1950s gender roles, but if you listen to the lyrics, Trainor clearly states that she has a job and never learned to cook. Satire. SATIRE PEOPLE.

Are you really that surprised? Women get up in arms because they want to, not because they've got an actual reason to be. Someone else says they're offended and most of you get offended with her. You teach each other not to question.

"Listen and believe"


Just look at the hissy fit Robin Thicke's song caused.



As a feminist though what offended me is not the satirical video, but that the message of the song increasingly becomes more demanding, controlling and entitled. It starts out asking for respect...then next thing you know she's saying she's never wrong, don't disagree with her, and if you open doors for her you might get head (implied through clever self censorship).

That's not feminism, folks. That's being one of two things: a spoiled brat, or a dominant woman who wants a sub as a husband. There's no equality in the song. It's just a fucking trainwreck, and what makes me annoyed is that MRA tools are going to take this as proof that feminism is about lording over them. Ugh, Meghan, and I liked All About That Bass so much.
It is feminism. That's what feminism is about.
They tell you it's about equality because they know most people aren't going to look beyond that. You believe it without question because it's a woman telling you that's the way it is.

Feminism thrives because of people like you, who spend absolutely ZERO time actually taking a look at what feminists get up to. And any time their actions are shoved right up into your face, you claim that it's not REAL feminism. "They're not real feminists."

Feminism has always been a platform from which privileged women could claim to represent all women everywhere. That platform has always been used to whine and make demands. This isn't something that's only come about because of tumblr.
 
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I don't think the song is body shaming. I think she has a Beyonce kind of idea of empowerment, and I probably would like Dear Future Husband without the implication of the video, because I don't have a problem with people expressing who they are, and I think her music is catchy and her style is fun. ..what I disagree with is that she seems to want to make it a social message. She's making her personal pride in her individual traits into a social example.
I don't have a problem expressing who they are either, until they make fun of others who don't deserve to be the butt of a joke.

Beyonce's songs are different to that as, as far as I know, she's not calling women [skinny] bitches in hers(?). A lot of her lyrics can be empowering to most types of women without having to pick on a certain type to prop herself up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Are you really that surprised? Women get up in arms because they want to, not because they've got an actual reason to be. Someone else says they're offended and most of you get offended with her. You teach each other not to question.

"Listen and believe"


Just look at the hissy fit Robin Thicke's song caused.





It is feminism. That's what feminism is about.
They tell you it's about equality because they know most people aren't going to look beyond that. You believe it without question because it's a woman telling you that's the way it is.

Feminism thrives because of people like you, who spend absolutely ZERO time actually taking a look at what feminists get up to. And any time their actions are shoved right up into your face, you claim that it's not REAL feminism. "They're not real feminists."

Feminism has always been a platform from which privileged women could claim to represent all women everywhere. That platform has always been used to whine and make demands. This isn't something that's only come about because of tumblr.
Yes Robin Thickes song was about date rape, so I'm not sure why you think date rape should just go under the radar in a very popular song. And no, this is not feminism as an example of equality, individual feminists may be as different as women can be, but the problem comes not with Meghan Trainor calling herself a feminist, but with her implying this is some broader example of feminism.

Sounds like you hate women an awful lot (women get up in arms because they want to, not because they have an actual reason to be were your words) so I'm unsurprised by your ignorant misogyny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't have a problem expressing who they are either, until they make fun of others who don't deserve to be the butt of a joke.

Beyonce's songs are different to that as, as far as I know, she's not calling women [skinny] bitches in hers(?). A lot of her lyrics can be empowering to most types of women without having to pick on a certain type to prop herself up.
What I think is that Meghan Trainor should choose one or the other. She very well may be an Fi type, and Beyonce an Fe type...Beyonce actually being "socially responsible" in making sure her message is more egalitarian. ..and Meghan Trainor confusing expression of her individuality with an attempt to establish a "new normal" ....but maybe it's backward, some people say Beyonce is ISFP and Meghan Trainor very well could be an ESFJ trying to establish a new normal. EFJ doesn't just follow social protocol, but establish and enforce it (though I have seem people suggest Beyonce is ISFJ, not ISFP, I am not trying to drag this into a huge type argument! )

But yeah its her thinly veiled attempt to establish curvy or dominant as "the new correct" rather than "I just gotta be me."
 

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Yes Robin Thickes song was about date rape, so I'm not sure why you think date rape should just go under the radar in a very popular song. And no, this is not feminism as an example of equality, individual feminists may be as different as women can be, but the problem comes not with Meghan Trainor calling herself a feminist, but with her implying this is some broader example of feminism.


Have you listened to the song?
It's not about date rape. The entire time, the dude is passive.

"I know you want it." Doesn't mean he's going to rape you in the context of the song. The whole song is about him sitting back and telling the woman he's talking to that if she wants him, she's going to have to come to him.


You want a song about date rape?



And it isn't in support of date rape, which is probably what you're going to convince yourself of.



Sounds like you hate women an awful lot (women get up in arms because they want to, not because they have an actual reason to be were your words) so I'm unsurprised by your ignorant misogyny.
 

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Some people are just spoiled narcissists, and it should come as no surprise that a shitty pop star who wrote a song entirely about the perceived superiority of her ass appears to be one of them. What else is new? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I added this diagram for your convenience:


 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Have you listened to the song?
It's not about date rape. The entire time, the dude is passive.

"I know you want it." Doesn't mean he's going to rape you in the context of the song. The whole song is about him sitting back and telling the woman he's talking to that if she wants him, she's going to have to come to him.


You want a song about date rape?



And it isn't in support of date rape, which is probably what you're going to convince yourself of.





Sex Type Thing is just about rape. Period.

I'm not sure how "I know you want it" and "I know you want what's on my mind, I know you like what's on my mind" are two different things to you, but the STP song is slightly more threatening; however I would not call the man in Blurred Lines passive, but rather taking it upon himself to decide for the "good girl" if they should have sex or not.

And yes you said women have no reason to get up in arms, not even feminists, but women. You communicated the point of view that women are hysterical and have no reason to get upset unless you or other men agree. Doesn't really get much more misogynistic than that. You might as well have wrote bitch better get back in the kitchen, or women should be seen but not heard.

Your version of feminism having always been about "whining" is pretty ignorant too. Damn those whiny first wave feminists for wanting to vote, second wave for addressing things like domestic violence and abortion and equal pay, and third wave for questioning gender roles and including minorities, queers and sex workers...you can't expect anyone to take you seriously with such broad generalizing and misogyny.
 

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Sex Type Thing is just about rape. Period.

I'm not sure how "I know you want it" and "I know you want what's on my mind, I know you like what's on my mind" are two different things to you, but the STP song is slightly more threatening; however I would not call the man in Blurred Lines passive, but rather taking it upon himself to decide for the "good girl" to decide if they should have sex or not.

And yes you said women have no reason to get up in arms, not even feminists, but women. You communicated the point of view that women are hysterical and have no reason to get upset unless you or other men agree. Doesn't really get much more misogynistic than that. You might as well have wrote bitch better get back in the kitchen, or women should be seen but not heard.

Your version of feminism having always been about "whining" is pretty ignorant too. Damn those whiny first wave feminists for wanting to vote, second wave for addressing things like domestic violence and abortion and equal pay, and third wave for questioning gender roles and including minorities, queens and sex workers...you can't expect anyone to take you seriously with such broad generalizing and misogyny.

Women were going to get the vote even if feminists didn't take it upon themselves to risk their husband's freedom to get it.
It might have happened a decade later instead of when it happened, but it would have happened. Most men were not against women having the vote. Some rich men were against anyone other than themselves having the vote.

Yes, let's all praise feminists for shit that was going to be taken care of anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Women were going to get the vote even if feminists didn't take it upon themselves to risk their husband's freedom to get it.
It might have happened a decade later instead of when it happened, but it would have happened. Most men were not against women having the vote. Some rich men were against anyone other than themselves having the vote.

Yes, let's all praise feminists for shit that was going to be taken care of anyway.
Risk their husbands freedom? Lolkthnx bye. I think you are projecting your own irrational hysteria on to women. That explains a great deal. "It would have gotten taken care of without feminists anyway."

I don't think you know what the word feminism means, and you are probably best patted on the head and ignored.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Some people are just spoiled narcissists, and it should come as no surprise that a shitty pop star who wrote a song entirely about the perceived superiority of her ass appears to be one of them. What else is new? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I added this diagram for your convenience:


I don't think she's a narcissist. And I do think she's acting the same as a lot of male pop stars. I just don't think she should be angling for a political voice, her music is a lot less problematic taken as individual expression.
 

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Ahhhh low quality mainstream song...

Best thing is to avoid the song and avoid music related conversation with those who listen to such music cause they probably are non-relative to music. On the other hand the persons who get affected by "the message" this song delivers as a personality, it is probably a weak person and there would be much more serious problems with this persons to solve, than the affection of this song.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ahhhh low quality mainstream song...

Best thing is to avoid the song and avoid music related conversation with those who listen to such music cause they probably are non-relative to music. On the other hand the persons who get affected by "the message" this song delivers as a personality, it is probably a weak person and there would be much more serious problems with this persons to solve, than the affection of this song.
Yes children and young adolescents usually are "weak" and impressionable, which is why adults look out for them. And I was unclear that listening to pop music automatically made one ignorant about other kinds of music, or about politics or social issues. I have been hearing your argument from pretentious high school boys since the 90s. Congratulations on being a hipster. May I offer you an ironic Meghan Trainor tee shirt or poster?
 

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Risk their husbands freedom? Lolkthnx bye. I think you are projecting your own irrational hysteria on to women. That explains a great deal. "It would have gotten taken care of without feminists anyway."

I don't think you know what the word feminism means, and you are probably best patted on the head and ignored.

One of the tactics feminists used to get what they wanted in the past was to stop paying taxes on property they owned. Property that their husbands had no right or access to without their permission.

However, there were two issues stopping these women from being punished for their actions.
The first is that it simply would not be possible to jail a woman for the crime. Nobody would be willing to convict them. Hell, there was talk like half a century or more ago about simply giving women a free pass for crimes, even those as heinous as murder, because of how difficult it would be to get a jury to convict her of anything. Let alone get them to jail her for the crime. This is something that hasn't changed in all these years. Women are simply not seen as being capable of malice. They can murder their ex-boyfriends in horrifyingly brutal manners. They can mutilate them and not face any real form of punishment. All they need to do is claim they were abused in some form. It doesn't matter if there's no proof of it. Just that claim is enough to cause most people to back off.

The second issue is that, back then, a woman's actions were the responsibility of her husband. The husband was the person responsible for making sure the bills get paid. Failure to do this would mean he would be the one jailed, not her.


I know what feminism means. I know what feminists want it to mean and I know what it actually is.
Feminism has always been a platform for privileged white women to complain about not having as much as the richest white men in the country.
 

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Yes children and young adolescents usually are "weak" and impressionable, which is why adults look out for them. And I was unclear that listening to pop music automatically made one ignorant about other kinds of music, or about politics or social issues.
Well lets not be that absolute, maybe there are some exceptions which listen to craps like this one and have an opinion on social and political issues. Thing that I don't really believe too. But I dislike to concatenate different thing and even when I do I dislike being absolute. The fact that someone listen to crap music doesn't prove that he is a dumb guy or that he doesn't have political and social interest at all. It just proves that he is non-relative to the music world and he listen to every new crap they feed him.

I have been hearing your argument from pretentious high school boys since the 90s. Congratulations on being a hipster. May I offer you an ironic Meghan Trainor tee shirt or poster?
Well either you 've heard the argument a lot or not, it is an accurate one. Now I don't really understand what do you mean by the word hipster google translate gives me this "a person who follows the latest trends and fashions." if you meant this... I hope you are joking really.

Now for the t-shirt-poster thingy. As long as I have not a hearth(fireplace) on my house, this would be absolutely useless... So no thank you.
 

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Well lets not be that absolute, maybe there are some exceptions which listen to craps like this one and have an opinion on social and political issues. Thing that I don't really believe too. But I dislike to concatenate different thing and even when I do I dislike being absolute. The fact that someone listen to crap music doesn't prove that he is a dumb guy or that he doesn't have political and social interest at all. It just proves that he is non-relative to the music world and he listen to every new crap they feed him.



Well either you 've heard the argument a lot or not, it is an accurate one. Now I don't really understand what do you mean by the word hipster google translate gives me this "a person who follows the latest trends and fashions." if you meant this... I hope you are joking really.

Now for the t-shirt-poster thingy. As long as I have not a hearth(fireplace) on my house, this would be absolutely useless... So no thank you.
No, it really is not. I'm more suspicious of someone's credibility if they really think they can infer someone else's status from their musical preferences (which are obviously highly subjective). Also, I don't think you understand what "non-relative" means.
 
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