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I don't know why you bothered to respond. She clearly has an incredibly skewed perception of reality. Talking to her, I imagine, is like talking to an alien that is pretending it's a human.
There are some reasons.

I guess not everyone, in this site like in real life, ever noticed the huge discrimination men face in western world until they hit it with the face. For those people, what she wrote seems reasonable because, after all, it is all media continue to repeat.

Second, I like to stand for the oppressed, and we see how it is easy attack men even here ("men cheat", "men envious of female success", "male resentment"). These threads could refer to specific studies, but usually we met some commenters who suddenly jump attacking men as a whole (that generalization, of course, is sexism and technically not allowed by forum rules - I do not pretend the mod's axe, but see how it is easy dismiss men as a whole).

Third, she does very nice drawings :tongue: and I was a bit taken aback by the vicious things she said. I am sorry if she had bad experiences with individual men but this does not mean all men are such.
 

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If someone is that drunk, it's very clear that it is rape whether they are male or female. I don't know a single man in my life who would do anything other than take care of someone that drunk.
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the trouble is, everyone's perspective on this is experiential. i have met or heard from men who felt differently, or at least talked as if they felt differently. one of the things you meet with a lot if you're a woman is men speaking pretty freely to you about their opinions of other women, in a divide-and-conquerish way. they let you know what their social/moral codes are for women in general, and it has an impact. i imagine guys get the same kind of thing from women, but i don't know if the messages are exactly the same. see, a guy who got hammered and got taken might wake up feeling just as screwed over the next morning, but instead of hearing 'your fault for drinking in the first place' he'd just get laughed off. neither one does justice to the person involved, but i feel they're so different that trying to negate or refute one by citing the other is completely pointless. one admits harm but places a lot of the blame for it in the wrong place, and the other refuses to admit harm at all.
 

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You are a liar, pure and simple. And today usually women suffer no consequence for being liars like you. Today the definition of rape is so broad pratically accommodates the feminist desire of considering any heterosexual act as rape. There is no evidence necessary anymore to report a rape to make a man arrested. Today accusing the husband of rape or pedophilia without any evidence is the norm in the divorce courts, and these unfounded accusations are routinely accepted by judges.
It is the false rape accusers who never suffer consequences, while men's life is usually ruined by complacent media, while they are almost always innocent.
These assertions require evidence, my friend. Most of the studies that I've read suggest that rape is underreported, and that the number of rapes that go unreported, or if reported, go unsolved--is higher by far than the number of false accusations.

Personal experience bears this out--three of my friends have experienced cut and dry sexual assault--one of the two cases in which drugs other than alcohol were used to render the person incapable and where the assault that occurred thereafter was sufficiently violent to leave serious physical evidence, and one case of spousal rape where the women in question was physically restrained by her partner and assaulted. In the latter case, after the assault occurred, she cut off all contact with her partner. He then chose to stalk her for several months. In each case, the woman involved felt immense pressure not to report the assault to the police. In one case, the women in question, despite the fact that she was showing clear symptoms of GHB intoxication after she was found, was rejected by the community for being a "false accuser". Eventually, her husband nearly divorced her for "being so foolish" as to accept the drugged cocktail from her attacker.

Comparably, among my group of male friends--which is selected from the same demographic, and, in fact, larger than my group of female friends--no individual has ever been accused of rape, falsely or not. One individual was falsely accused of domestic violence (because women, being human, are, of course, as imperfect as men are). He was arrested, but the charges were dismissed before the case ever went to court. As they should have been.

Again, that's anecdotal evidence, but it's better than no evidence altogether.
 

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I expect that the statistics are pretty high because the percentage of men (and it is probably pretty small, I wouldn't imagine much above 10% in the appropriate age and income brackets) who want to engage in those practices are likely repeat offenders who account for most of it.

However, if both men and women simply refrained from drinking and partying altogether, and watched out for risky scenarios, it would go a long way toward reducing violence and crime of all kinds, in addition to what this thread is addressing. I think the extreme lack of boundaries between people today is the cause of all kinds of abuses. This isn't to say the perpetrators are decent people, but you really do have to have an opportunity to perpetrate a crime of any kind. There are too many opportunities today.
 

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I expect that the statistics are pretty high because the percentage of men (and it is probably pretty small, I wouldn't imagine much above 10% in the appropriate age and income brackets) who want to engage in those practices are likely repeat offenders who account for most of it.
This was an interesting thing that I read, on that point. In one study, something like 95% of all the assaults reported were committed by just 8.4% of respondents. You've read it too?

Meet The Predators |
 

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No, but I just reason that there really aren't that many men with both the social functionality to stay out of prison and the desire to take a risk in order to get something by violence which they probably could easily get another way. It takes a certain kind of man to do both of those things.
 

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@xlr8r

The only study that is cited in the article on False Allegations hosted by the A Voice for Men page and also supplied with a link is the Rumney. On close inspection, no legitimate study (it *must* be t>30 to achieve anything resembling statistical significance*) gives the false accusation rate as greater than 10%. Having read the article, I find, as does the *author*, that the methodology behind the studies touting higher figures is deeply suspect, due to the way police departments that they relied upon for their data determined the veracity of accusations (victim was not disheveled? delayed reporting? slutty clothing? lack of timid damaged demeanor? etc.). Even in some of the studies that place that number at 10% there are some issues with that figure.

Taking that 10% as a decent, if high, estimate--if there are 100 reported rapes, then 10 of them are false reports, and 90 are accurate. If only 46% of rapes are reported, then that means there are 195 rapes occurring in the community from which the data derives. This means that the number of rapists who have been falsely accused is 5% of the number of rapes.

*in my field, we often abide the t>30 rule, but that is because, depending on your unit of analysis, a larger amount of suitable data is not available. in this case, however, given the bank of available evidence any legitimate large-N analysis should be able to pull a much larger figure.
 

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I said that the privilege that women have which voids the concept of them discussing the exploitation of a drunk man is that they have freedom of choice and a total lack of requirement to put any effort towards courting or approaching their romantic interest.
As an aging, nerdy fat woman, this is hilarious. Obviously the cosmetics, fashion, and dieting industries will collapse any day now.
 

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@xlr8r

The only study that is cited in the article on False Allegations hosted by the A Voice for Men page and also supplied with a link is the Rumney.
Please take your time. Unfortunately these sites can be difficult to navigate.
Example Facts | A Voice for Men (study mentioned in external linked site)

I agree this site is particularly lacking on the quick retrieval of info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
And where do you find these famous conversations? Can you show an example?
He can't without taking you to a bar or a men's locker room, both disagreeable places for me. :S
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
To both men and women, unless you have a really good relationship with the person and you are near certain they would consent if they were sober, I would suggest just not attempting anything while in that kind of compromising situation. You should both have an understanding beforehand of what your limits are so that your partner isn't confused by possible drunken pursuits that may occur.

That's my stance, though I personally don't have anyone outside my family that I would trust myself being intoxicated around.
Ok, but what about women who go to the bars with their "girlfriends" with no intention of leaving with a man, but that intention changes as they become inebriated? Is that rape? Is it unwarranted for a man to have drunken sex with a drunken woman he met at a bar that night? People have sex with other random people all the time in this manner with no preconceived notion of what to expect for that night.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Sex without meaningful consent is rape. Drinking makes meaningful consent impossible because it impairs a person's inhibitions. Therefore, having sex with a drunk person is rape. If I were to have sex with my husband while he was drunk, even if he was begging for it, I would be a rapist. He trusts me not to take advantage of him. I always ask permission before engaging in any sexual activity, and I won't start until I hear a clear "yes."

When both people are drunk, things get a bit trickier. It is very common for men, sober and otherwise, to seek out drunk women as easy targets, and social pressures come into play. Men are often expected (by their peers) to have as much sex as possible, while women are given mixed messages about our sexuality. Alcohol is often used specifically for the purpose of sexual coercion. Some men have been known to drug women's drinks in order to get an unconscious victim, knowing that a drunk woman will be stigmatized by a slut-shaming culture and the crime will likely go unreported. When one considers the cultural context, drunk women are rightly thought of as more vulnerable than drunk men, and that is likely why there seems to be an imbalance when assigning culpability. It is probably that way for the sake of evening things out a bit.

Consider this: You can easily find conversations among men about the best ways to take advantage of drunk women for sexual gain, but there is no equivalent trend in which women popularly discuss how to sexually exploit drunk men. When men must take all of the blame for situations in which both partners were drunk, they are suffering the consequences of their own privilege, which sometimes backfires on them. That is how it seems to me.
Women do take advantage of drunk men, but more for their money. And I've heard women speak about it. Isn't that theft? Isn't that fraudulent solicitation? Each gender is equal but in different ways. Where one gives, the other takes and vice versa. Why do women wear makeup, go out to the bar and lower their inhibitions with alcohol? Are they therefore hoping to be raped? If they are going out for enjoyment alone, why are they dressing more and more provocatively? And while at the same time, I don't condone the sentiment you may sometimes hear: "well, she was asking for it, dressing like that," I still wonder, why the fuck was she dressed like that unless she was actually asking for it? You don't need to dress like a whore to play pool, get drunk and dance, so why dress up? Why put on makeup before going out? It doesn't make sense to me. And it sounds like a double standard for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
We have to worry about getting pregnant if something goes wrong -- not a good situation to be in if you're just with some drunk you met at a party. I don't consider that a privilege at all.
We have to worry about pregnancy too. That shit is expensive. And it's over 18 years!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·

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We have to worry about pregnancy too. That shit is expensive. And it's over 18 years!!!
Your words: "People have sex with other random people all the time in this manner with no preconceived notion of what to expect for that night."

Women have to carry the baby to full term + if you just have sex with a random person, not really a good chance of them sticking around? A woman has to deal with it no matter what. The man only has to deal with it if he sticks around long enough for her to identify him.

If you have sex with a drunk person whom you haven't discussed the matter with before, they can't give informed consent, and you are not in a position to decide whether they would or not. If that equates to rape or not is a grey area. But if (as a man or a woman) you're stupid enough to take the chance of a one-night stand while intoxicated with a stranger, well... I don't see the appeal at all. That's the chance you're taking. It all comes down to whether you have good judgement. I suppose if both parties are drunk, there should be some leniency (either they are both charged or the charges are dropped altogether).
This is one of the reasons why I will never drink. I do not have enough trust in the decency of the average guy even when he is not wasted. Having my senses inhibited in any social situation that could get out of hand is a no-no for me. So females like me will make it easy for those of you who are willing to take such chances -- informed answer 24/7.
 

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This is one of the reasons why I will never drink. I do not have enough trust in the decency of the average guy even when he is not wasted. Having my senses inhibited in any social situation that could get out of hand is a no-no for me. So females like me will make it easy for those of you who are willing to take such chances -- informed answer 24/7.
If you never drink how can be easy take "such" chances?
 

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If you never drink how can be easy take "such" chances?
Because then there will be no question of whether I'm giving informed consent, as I won't be intoxicated. You won't have to guess at my sober answer, as my sober answer will be the only answer. I will be competent enough to deal with the situation and the 'grey area' will not be an issue.

"Such chances" as in sex with a stranger who you have had no previous discussion about this subject with.
 
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the trouble is, everyone's perspective on this is experiential. i have met or heard from men who felt differently, or at least talked as if they felt differently. one of the things you meet with a lot if you're a woman is men speaking pretty freely to you about their opinions of other women, in a divide-and-conquerish way. they let you know what their social/moral codes are for women in general, and it has an impact. i imagine guys get the same kind of thing from women, but i don't know if the messages are exactly the same. see, a guy who got hammered and got taken might wake up feeling just as screwed over the next morning, but instead of hearing 'your fault for drinking in the first place' he'd just get laughed off. neither one does justice to the person involved, but i feel they're so different that trying to negate or refute one by citing the other is completely pointless. one admits harm but places a lot of the blame for it in the wrong place, and the other refuses to admit harm at all.
Do you have an example? I can't figure out what you're referring to when you say social/moral codes.

As an aging, nerdy fat woman, this is hilarious. Obviously the cosmetics, fashion, and dieting industries will collapse any day now.
If you think grooming, clothing and eating healthy is something that men don't have to do, then you should alter your statement to say "sheltered, aging, nerdy fat woman".
 
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