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If they are going out for enjoyment alone, why are they dressing more and more provocatively?
well, apparently it's fun to play dressup. it wouldn't ever have crossed my own mind, but a friend of mine years ago who was/is far more girlie than me widened my mind a little. she just plain and simply likes getting dressed up. nothing to do with men at all. she likes makeup too, and wears lipstick even while she's arc-welding some chunk of sheet-iron or schlepping around the house in a ratty bathrobe. it's a misconception to think that xty percent of what women do is done with their focus on what men will think.

i don't have that particular idea of fun, but i do like live music. which i don't see nearly as much of as i would like because i don't want the aggravation of exactly that kind of 'well, why are you here if you didn't want me intruding on you' assumptions. and not even counting the music, every six months or so i want a beer. i could go buy a whole six pack from the local liquor store that won't sell singles to anybody . . . and bring it safely home, lock all my doors and drink it alone in my room. i guess; but piss on that; why should i, if the other 49% of the population or whatever it is have other options?

I still wonder, why the fuck was she dressed like that unless she was actually asking for it?

well, using your parallel, it's like a guy who has a lot of material goods. you don't see some guy in a designer suit pull up in a maserati outside a bar and ask yourself why the hell he's flaunting it if he's not hoping to get himself robbed, right? same thing. it's fun to feel rich. it's fun to feel pretty, or whatever other version of that turns your crank. it's even fun to 'share' whatever you're pleased about in yourself so that hopefully others will validate your own opinions of it by being impressed. none of any of that implies, or should imply, that you're tacitly saying it's okay for any of them to try and take it off you. or take more of it than you've decide all by yourself that you're willing to share.

You don't need to dress like a whore to play pool
only thing i'm going to say about that pretty questionable simile is to point out rape of a whore is still rape.

And it sounds like a double standard for sure.


i guess i don't hang out with that kind of woman enough to have heard as much of it as you have - just like most normal guys don't hang out with the scumbags enough to hear about the kinds of attitudes we women often get exposed to in living colour. you mean women 'taking' men financially? outright theft while the guy's too fuddled to check his wallet, or just some form of implying there's a transaction understood to be under way, and then ditching out once he's 'delivered' his side, a la 1950s? i'm not sure what kind of thing you're referring to there. see, but i think any guy who woke up the next day and phoned the cops to report he brought this strange woman home last night and now his credit cards are missing . . . i don't think he would find himself getting blown off just because he'd been drunk at the time.
 

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What you are saying makes sense. However, having the right in an ideal world to go and dress as you like and go where you like isn't the question, at least not as I was reading it. The world isn't ideal; anyone who thinks the current scenario is great and women need to stop complaining is wrong. Because I say so. Lol.

On the other hand, I don't really see the good of talking about how things should be different when for the foreseeable future they won't be.

In my ideal world, bars wouldn't exist. I don't think this narrative is popular with either sex, but more importantly, anyone who argues that the solution is to close places where stuff is likely to occur is dreaming. It's not going to happen. The best thing is for people to take precautions. Don't do anything that could endanger your own safety.
 

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So now there are women going to bars, getting drunk and sleeping with men (also drunk) and regretting their decision the next day. Does that mean they were raped? While I'm not convinced, since the debate started, the definition of rape (not the legal definition, the social definition) changed from "having sex with someone who doesn't give their consent" to "having sex with any girl who is drunk." And the bigger issue for me is that if I get drunk and wind up having sex, I can't complain the next day that I was raped by some woman. To me, if she can complain, but I can't and we both feel the same way, isn't that a serious gender inequality? And before you judge based on the theory that a man with an erection is consenting, let me argue this. Every morning, I get morning wood. I'm not in the mood for sex, neither am I giving consent, it's just there.

So my question is, first, how much does a woman need to drink before her consent is negated? Second, why don't men have the same legal rights as women on this matter?

Also, if anyone can find a record of a woman in prison for raping a man, I would be very entertained to see it. I don't doubt it's there, I just can't find it.
Keep in mind that a 16 yo's alcohol tolerance is going to be pretty low. I'm 32, physically fit and have good alcohol tolerance. Two or three drinks isn't going to hurt my ability to consent to sex. Take a woman of the same age with an eating disorder the same height as me and two or three drinks is probably going to have her on her arse and not able to give informed consent.

I think if there's a question in your mind whether she can give informed consent, cover your arse and walk away. It's hard to look at a person and judge their alcohol tolerance levels.
 

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So my question is, first, how much does a woman need to drink before her consent is negated?


Well, we could take into account the amount of alcohol and drugs consume by the lady + her weight, fat %, height to have a precise measurement but who cares about that. I mean, you go to a party, a girl jump on you, rub herself against you, says lots of nasty stuff. You look at her seriously, if she seems capable of having enough brain power left to be lucid enough then go for it. You're the judge of the situation.

About that girl story. I don't understand why these kids these days are so much against those sexually depraved teenagers. WTH is happening seriously, I'm still young and I just don't understand why they act like that. At their age, those girls, we liked them and I still liked them. Yeah they can go to a party and have sex with 7 different guys but we didn't care. We had what we wanted and we were never intimidating them. The only intimidation there was were from other girls that were jealous that the men they had a crush had fucked her before they could do it. But that was just bitch shouting from time to time, mostly they were talking in their back.

Anyway, I don't think we still understand these women
:laughing:. Sometimes what goes in their head is so fucked-up that we can't imagine it. Poor men we are, having to fight our most basic instinct every day against these really exciting external stimuli. We could talk about that for hours but I don't feel like it. Nobody will ever change the way we want anyway. Debates are futile on that subject.
 

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you mean women 'taking' men financially?
I'm pretty sure he meant something like free drinks, but anyway, free drinks or free dinners are good examples. Some women like to brag about how many free drinks they can get while not actually having any interest in anything else from the people. The reason people don't like that so much, is that they're being led on, and then their hopes come crashing down, which they don't appreciate.

I could see how a naive, sheltered woman might accept a drink on her first night out thinking the other person just wants to share, but I think they become fully aware of what the intent is once they get beyond that. I've accepted drinks from gay guys before, because I didn't realize I was getting hit on as it's not extremely common, but if I knew their intent, I would've declined the drinks because I have integrity.

i don't think he would find himself getting blown off just because he'd been drunk at the time.
That's a pretty terrible analogy unless you think it's common for sober men to give consent to women to steal their credit cards. Also, in your analogy, the man is apparently completely unconscious which is a state of mind that isn't disputed by anyone (reasonable) as being considered rape when a person is in that state.

Maybe a better example would be if the man woke up and phoned the police saying that he had bought a bunch of drinks and dinner for a woman but felt he had been stolen from now that he's sobered up. Then yes, the police would blow him off because he had an active role in the situation regardless of sobriety.
 

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I'm pretty sure he meant something like free drinks, but anyway, free drinks or free dinners are good examples. Some women like to brag about how many free drinks they can get while not actually having any interest in anything else from the people. The reason people don't like that so much, is that they're being led on, and then their hopes come crashing down, which they don't appreciate.

I could see how a naive, sheltered woman might accept a drink on her first night out thinking the other person just wants to share, but I think they become fully aware of what the intent is once they get beyond that. I've accepted drinks from gay guys before, because I didn't realize I was getting hit on as it's not extremely common, but if I knew their intent, I would've declined the drinks because I have integrity.



That's a pretty terrible analogy unless you think it's common for sober men to give consent to women to steal their credit cards. Also, in your analogy, the man is apparently completely unconscious which is a state of mind that isn't disputed by anyone (reasonable) as being considered rape when a person is in that state.

Maybe a better example would be if the man woke up and phoned the police saying that he had bought a bunch of drinks and dinner for a woman but now regretted doing so now that he's sobered up. Then yes, the police would blow him off because he had an active role in the situation regardless of sobriety.
If a woman said she regretted sex, the police would blow her off.
 

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I don't know if there is a big stink about this in other countries, but I'm going to preface this thread genesis with a bit of info on why this issue is important in Canada. Here is a link for more information:

Suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here is a brief synopsis.

Rehtaeh Parsons was a 16 year old girl who was raped at a party where she had been drinking. Pictures and a video of the event were taken and posted online. Since then, the boys responsible for the act were tried for manufacturing and distributing child pornography, (which in my opinion is worse than just a sex offence on one's record). Rehtaeh attempted suicide by method of hanging herself after months of harassment at school over the matter. She wound up on life support for some time before they pulled the plug and she died. Since then the Canadian media and Rehtaeh's parents, along with the government have been raising awareness on the issues of consent for sex, cyber bullying and sexual harassment.

Since then, any and all controversial opinions on the subject of consent have been sensationalized on the news and in schools. The message is simple, rape is bad, you can't have sex with someone who doesn't consent to it.

Now, in the case of Rehtaeh Parsons, we have a textbook open and closed case of violation. There was videographic and photographic evidence to suggest that she was not consenting (she was unconscious). But the sensationalizing of the issue has opened up a huge can of worms and the one I want to talk about is the definition of consent. Apparently, after a person has had a few drinks, they are not capable of making correct choices for themselves and therefore are incapable of consent, even if they do in fact verbally consent. So now there are women going to bars, getting drunk and sleeping with men (also drunk) and regretting their decision the next day. Does that mean they were raped? While I'm not convinced, since the debate started, the definition of rape (not the legal definition, the social definition) changed from "having sex with someone who doesn't give their consent" to "having sex with any girl who is drunk." And the bigger issue for me is that if I get drunk and wind up having sex, I can't complain the next day that I was raped by some woman. To me, if she can complain, but I can't and we both feel the same way, isn't that a serious gender inequality? And before you judge based on the theory that a man with an erection is consenting, let me argue this. Every morning, I get morning wood. I'm not in the mood for sex, neither am I giving consent, it's just there.

So my question is, first, how much does a woman need to drink before her consent is negated? Second, why don't men have the same legal rights as women on this matter?

Also, if anyone can find a record of a woman in prison for raping a man, I would be very entertained to see it. I don't doubt it's there, I just can't find it.
A woman's consent is negated when she CANNOT or DOES NOT give it. Period.

Let's face it, plenty of women get smashed, have sex, and cry rape because otherwise their boyfriend/husband may leave them. These women are wicked.

A woman deciding to lay down on a bed and do the deed with a guy, while smashed, isn't not being raped.

If she lies down on a couch because she is feeling ill due to drink, and the guy forces intercourse with her while she is saying "stop", "no", "don't", "help", or tries to physically stop him before "giving up" or blacking out then she is being raped. Also, let's say the two start, but the woman has a sudden change of mind and asks the guy to stop. If he doesn't, that's would then be considered rape.

Let's say a woman drinks and drinks and drinks until she passes out. Now she's sprawled out on the floor, and some guy comes and starts ----ing her. That's rape. She did not tell him yes. She is unable to say no. This guy is taking advantage of the situation.

it is harder for a man to prove that he was sexually assaulted by a female, but I have heard of it happening. All a woman has to do it grab his crotch and that's enough these days. Most of the time though a man won't say anything. His buddies may call him a "wimp" or a "***" for complaining about it. He may have a hard time proving it to the cops, etc.
 
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Some women like to brag about how many free drinks they can get while not actually having any interest in anything else from the people. The reason people don't like that so much, is that they're being led on, and then their hopes come crashing down, which they don't appreciate.
i guess so. on the other hand, i have real trouble equating NOT getting laid after paying for a night's worth of drinks, with getting laid when you didn't want anyone laying you. or even just didn't want the specific party of the other part laying you. no matter how many free drinks you might have got out of it.

but I think they become fully aware of what the intent is once they get beyond that.
it isn't easy to read the intent, believe me. the messages are very mixed for women as well. mostly because there are as many messages as there are individual men, probably. it's always possible that that's in the back of some individual's mind, but i don't think i've ever met a man who admitted up front that that was the deal. or even came close to admitting to it. i think in a lot of cases they're only half-conscious of the expectation themselves, if they hold it. what i've met with - personal anecdotal evidence again - is more likely to go like this. guy says 'can i <x>/<y>?' or moving higher on the pushiness scale, he either offers to do it without any 'can i' or just does it without interacting at all. and it isn't restricted to drinks. could be anything from buying a drink to oh, i don't know. ploughing the back forty for you. and he could have any kind of intent that you can think up. now i can say 'i appreciate the offer, but just so you know - just in case a few wires might be crossed - i do want to make sure you understand yada yada'. does the guy ever say gee, thanks for clearing that up? not in my world. he gets bent, is what happens. he's insulted, or he's defensive, or god help me, i've even met a few freakishly aggressive tirades about 'feminism' making all women neurotic or worse. so basically, it means you can't win. you can call it, and there's a pretty good chance you'll get called out for trying to clarify things. but the thing you're the least likely to get is a straight answer back. or you can refrain from calling it, and then when the guy's intent does become clear (assuming he had one) you're supposedly 'complicit' because you didn't object.

if I knew their intent, I would've declined the drinks because I have integrity.
sure. and i'd buy that. but the thing is, it is pretty hard to know the intent. and i don't know what you really think someone should 'get' for a handful of drinks. unless you are an actual cold, calculating sociopath who's buying the booze because he's consciously planning a rape, i always had the impression that - at best - you do something like that in the hopes the other person will like you, and maybe fall into a sociable, cheerful type of mood. no more. and maybe if they like you enough and their liking happens to take that direction as well, you might end up getting somewhere. but unless you're prepared to put your own expectations right up front and out loud, i don't think you're entitled to blame anyone else for not meeting them. there is no universal social contract on this. no unspoken but hard-and-fast rule that if you pay for this, she's just agreed to do that. supposedly it was like that in the 1950's and 60's, but that was a while ago.

Maybe a better example would be if the man woke up and phoned the police saying that he had bought a bunch of drinks and dinner for a woman but now regretted doing so now that he's sobered up. Then yes, the police would blow him off because he had an active role in the situation regardless of sobriety.
yes, that's true. i think he'd get laughed at even louder if he tried to explain had done the buying in the expectation of getting lucky, and regretted it because that didn't happen. unless she had said in so many words 'if you pay the bill then i'll sleep with you', and even then . . .
 
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Women do take advantage of drunk men, but more for their money. And I've heard women speak about it. Isn't that theft? Isn't that fraudulent solicitation? Each gender is equal but in different ways. Where one gives, the other takes and vice versa. Why do women wear makeup, go out to the bar and lower their inhibitions with alcohol? Are they therefore hoping to be raped? If they are going out for enjoyment alone, why are they dressing more and more provocatively? And while at the same time, I don't condone the sentiment you may sometimes hear: "well, she was asking for it, dressing like that," I still wonder, why the fuck was she dressed like that unless she was actually asking for it? You don't need to dress like a whore to play pool, get drunk and dance, so why dress up? Why put on makeup before going out? It doesn't make sense to me. And it sounds like a double standard for sure.
Just because a person dresses in a way that appeals to you, that does not make them a whore.
Why do women wear makeup? Are you kidding me? In case you haven't noticed, there are women who wear makeup all day, every day, no matter where they go. They wear makeup because they think it enhances their facial appearance. It does not mean that they 1. want sex at that time or 2. that they would want sex with some random guy while they can barely stand straight.

Here, I'll play your broad assumption game:
Why do guys put hair gel in their hair? Why do they dump a cascade of Axe on themselves (ads clearly show it is not just for deodorant)? Why do they wear tight muscle shirts? Why do so many guys wear loose pants that are always threatening to fall off? Why do they (usually) carry contraception around with them?
Why are they dressing themselves like this if they aren't trying to attract girls for sex?

There, double standard gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Just because a person dresses in a way that appeals to you, that does not make them a whore.
Why do women wear makeup? Are you kidding me? In case you haven't noticed, there are women who wear makeup all day, every day, no matter where they go. They wear makeup because they think it enhances their facial appearance. It does not mean that they 1. want sex at that time or 2. that they would want sex with some random guy while they can barely stand straight.

Here, I'll play your broad assumption game:
Why do guys put hair gel in their hair? Why do they dump a cascade of Axe on themselves (ads clearly show it is not just for deodorant)? Why do they wear tight muscle shirts? Why do so many guys wear loose pants that are always threatening to fall off? Why do they (usually) carry contraception around with them?
Why are they dressing themselves like this if they aren't trying to attract girls for sex?

There, double standard gone.
I don't think so! First, what you said doesn't make sense. No guy dresses up and goes out hoping for a woman to spend all of his money on alcohol. Second, a condom in one's pocket isn't sexy, it's responsibility. We don't bring condoms around looking for STI riddled women to take advantage of at a party. Third, I've never heard of a woman saying "Oh, I love axe! I makes me turned on!" Fourth, women wearing makeup in public makes perfect sense if she's trying to keep a good paying job. Statistics show that women who wear makeup routinely have better paying jobs. Fifth, it's called a washcloth. If you want to reduce your odds of getting raped while dancing at a bar, you can wear a sweater with a sports bra, pants and wash your face after work. Women don't do this by some miracle because they are either 1. Stupid. or 2. On the prowl. Is there a number 3? For instance, 3. so hideous that they put makeup on so that children don't cry as she walks past them?

Double standard stays right where it is.
 

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Just because a person dresses in a way that appeals to you, that does not make them a whore.
Why do women wear makeup? Are you kidding me? In case you haven't noticed, there are women who wear makeup all day, every day, no matter where they go. They wear makeup because they think it enhances their facial appearance. It does not mean that they 1. want sex at that time or 2. that they would want sex with some random guy while they can barely stand straight.

Here, I'll play your broad assumption game:
Why do guys put hair gel in their hair? Why do they dump a cascade of Axe on themselves (ads clearly show it is not just for deodorant)? Why do they wear tight muscle shirts? Why do so many guys wear loose pants that are always threatening to fall off? Why do they (usually) carry contraception around with them?
Why are they dressing themselves like this if they aren't trying to attract girls for sex?

There, double standard gone.
Thanks for this. I wear make-up just about every day. It's sort of a hobby. I started playing with make-up as a little kid. I enjoy it. Just like some people have a shoe fetish (I've known men with massive shoe collections) or multiple cars for a single driver. I have a lot of make-up and wear it all the time. I also wear a wide variety of clothes, some styles sexier than others. I'm married with kids. I love the clothes. I wouldn't be me if I always wore conservative clothes. I'd be a fraud. I'm just being me. When I'm running, I wear running gear. I grew up with my Dad teaching me self-defense (he's ex-military) and have spent years as an adult taking martial arts because I feel more confident participating in martial arts. I like how I look and I like showing my personality in my clothes. I'm not a really a jeans and t-shirt girl.
 

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I worked, briefly, for a company that supplied technology to other groups. Part of my job was to help edit, and clarify, bids for potential projects. The bidding process was annoying--it took time and energy. Just because we made a bid, did not mean we got the contract. Sometimes, too, a group would ask for a bid with the intention of trying to steal our patents. That being the case, we had people on the team who knew how to find out if this was the case or not, and adjust the information presented accordingly.

Buying someone a drink is a bid. On their ass, I suppose, if it's in the bar hook-up context. Just because you've sent in a bid, it does not mean you will get the ass--you may be rejected for a variety of reasons, all of which sort of come down "this offer does not meet my needs at the moment". What the drink gets you, maybe, is the opportunity to open up the conversation. Some people let other people buy them drinks for other reasons--as a power play, because free drinks are free, and etc--and this is, perhaps, a little manipulative. However, it is up to the person buying the drink to assess whether or not using the drink as a conversation starter is a good investment or a waste of resources.
 

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I worked, briefly, for a company that supplied technology to other groups. Part of my job was to help edit, and clarify, bids for potential projects. The bidding process was annoying--it took time and energy. Just because we made a bid, did not mean we got the contract. Sometimes, too, a group would ask for a bid with the intention of trying to steal our patents. That being the case, we had people on the team who knew how to find out if this was the case or not, and adjust the information presented accordingly.

Buying someone a drink is a bid. On their ass, I suppose, if it's in the bar hook-up context. Just because you've sent in a bid, it does not mean you will get the ass--you may be rejected for a variety of reasons, all of which sort of come down "this offer does not meet my needs at the moment". What the drink gets you, maybe, is the opportunity to open up the conversation. Some people let other people buy them drinks for other reasons--as a power play, because free drinks are free, and etc--and this is, perhaps, a little manipulative. However, it is up to the person buying the drink to assess whether or not using the drink as a conversation starter is a good investment or a waste of resources.
When I was single, I went out to clubs to dance. My arse was usually broke as fuck but I could luckily get in for free. Otherwise I would have had to stay home and read a book. I had zero intention of buying drinks because I couldn't afford to buy a drink. I was there to dance with or without friends. Guys would come up and buy drinks. I would explain I was there to dance, they'd buy the drink anyway and insist it was just a drink. I would accept a couple of drinks and try talk to them, maybe set up a date so I could actually hear what the hell they were saying. But I still had to stay sober enough to get my arse home when I was done dancing. I wouldn't go home with a stranger, they could have been the next Paul Bernardo for all I know. Guys randomly do nice things and it's easier to just go along with it.

The only difference between a company looking for a bid and a woman in a bar, is most of the women in the bar didn't come out for bids. Or at least, very few of the women I've known went to bars and clubs looking to hook-up.
 

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I don't think so! First, what you said doesn't make sense. (1)No guy dresses up and goes out hoping for a woman to spend all of his money on alcohol. Second,(2) a condom in one's pocket isn't sexy, it's responsibility. We don't bring condoms around looking for STI riddled women to take advantage of at a party. Third, I've never heard of (3) a woman saying "Oh, I love axe! I makes me turned on!" Fourth, women wearing makeup in public makes perfect sense(4) if she's trying to keep a good paying job. Statistics show that women who wear makeup routinely have better paying jobs. Fifth, it's called a washcloth. If you want to(5) reduce your odds of getting raped while dancing at a bar, you can wear a sweater with a sports bra, pants and wash your face after work. Women don't do this by some miracle because they are either 1. Stupid. or 2. On the prowl. Is there a number 3? For instance, 3.(6) so hideous that they put makeup on so that children don't cry as she walks past them?

Double standard stays right where it is.
The point of my male comparison was to show you how odd your assumptions were. That's why they don't make sense to you. You made assumptions about a woman's intentions for doing things that could have nothing to do with sex, so I showed you what it looks like from a woman's perspective looking on a man with your kind of "jumping to conclusions" mindset.

1. So you can speak for all men on this, can you?
Nobody is forcing a guy to buy a girl drinks. He doesn't have to do anything. Guys are the ones who usually offer, so they have nothing to complain about. It's their decision if they want to spend their money.

2. Condom indicates they are expecting that sex could occur. It may be responsible, but it shows they are planning for it if they get the chance.

3. Then I guess the purpose of Axe was a big failure -- it's like male perfume, it's supposed to be infused with a scent that is attractive to females.

4. How many women have you been around? I've have never met any women who wear makeup purely to keep their job.

5. Right, I guess you men are such uncontrollable wild animals that we women have to be on constant guard that even the slightest hint of a sleeveless arm or an ankle could send you all into a wild frenzy. You do such a disservice to your sex by saying this, I hope you know. If you have urge problems because of what a woman wears, that's your problem. You have no right to dictate what someone wears just because you are lacking self-control.

6. Du bist ein Arsch. Have fun keeping your pants on.
 

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If you want to reduce your odds of getting raped while dancing at a bar, you can wear a sweater with a sports bra, pants and wash your face after work. Women don't do this by some miracle because they are either 1. Stupid. or 2. On the prowl. Is there a number 3? For instance, 3. so hideous that they put makeup on so that children don't cry as she walks past them?
@Cetanu, you were asking for examples of moral and social codes . . . this would be one. @prince_burns: i'm kind of too boggled to even know where to go. but even letting your premise stand as it is, a couple of thoughts:

1. 'Stupid' does not equate to a license for rape.
2. 'On the prowl' does not mean the woman is free for anybody. she can still pick and choose the person she follows through with.
 

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The only difference between a company looking for a bid and a woman in a bar, is most of the women in the bar didn't come out for bids. Or at least, very few of the women I've known went to bars and clubs looking to hook-up.
I agree with you 100%.

This conversation has just taken such a transactional* turn, though, that I thought, hey, if someone wants to look at this as a purely economic transaction, they shouldn't go halfway, should they? Rather, they should be willing to apply the full set of rules and norms that go along with a contract negotiation to the situation. And that means no whining about having misjudged market conditions.

*Which is, in my opinion, a really useless way of looking at the search for partners, whether the interaction is for the long- or the short-term. Since the thing that makes sex interesting and enjoyable, at least for me, is the confluence of desire.
 

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I agree with you 100%.

This conversation has just taken such a transactional* turn, though, that I thought, hey, if someone wants to look at this as a purely economic transaction, they shouldn't go halfway, should they? Rather, they should be willing to apply the full set of rules and norms that go along with a contract negotiation to the situation. And that means no whining about having misjudged market conditions.

*Which is, in my opinion, a really useless way of looking at the search for partners, whether the interaction is for the long- or the short-term. Since the thing that makes sex interesting and enjoyable, at least for me, is the confluence of desire.
Yeah, I'll never understand enjoying sex with someone not 100% on board. I wouldn't want sex with someone that I had to convince or be fearful they might regret it later. What a buzz kill! I also find rape nonsensical. Someone doesn't want them so they find force or coercion a desirable alternative?
 
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There was no rape in the Rehteah Parsons case - that's why there were never any sexual assault charges filed. There was no video evidence and the only photo of the event showed no faces and does not support the "she was unconscious" claim.

There were witnesses who confirmed it was consensual group sex which she later regretted. Witnesses also confirm that she was NOT blind-drunk. She cried rape well after the fact because she suffered slut-shaming as a result of her actions that night. The bullying and slut shaming was horrid, but what happened to her was not a sexual assault.

The media took the mother's version of the story as gospel and ran with it without bothering to do any fact-checking. By the time the truth came out, nobody was interested in hearing it anymore because the story had already taken on a life of its own.

[/hijack]

In regards to the question of drunken consent, that's opening a huge can of worms. Who decides how drunk is too drunk? Will men be expected to carry blood-alcohol test equipment with them now so they can ensure their partner is below the legal limit? And maybe a voice recorder for good measure? Or how about carrying around written contracts for all drunken hook-ups to sign before sex? Or should we just ban all drunken sex? There is no simple fix to this problem.

I don't condone rape under any circumstances. However, I also don't condone dumping all the responsibility on men. Ultimately everyone is responsible for their own safety and well-being.
I have a simple fix. People won't likely like it though.

If you get drunk.....wait for it.................you are still responsible for you actions. If you get yourself drunk and sleep with someone, its on you, at least in part. you could have refused, you could have rephrained from drinking, you could have had a friend advise you. you are an adult/young adult with the capacity to make good decisions, other people cannot be held accountable for your actions when you willingly impare that ability. They have no way of knowing how drunk you are, so its on you, not them, to determine when you are capable of making that decision and staying sober enough to do so should the situation arise.
 
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