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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a long-time friend who is an ENTJ, and I love her to death. She's a great person to be with, and our friendship is very deep, but not in a direct way. We don't have gushy talk sessions (usually) but we just get each other. I'm the kind of person who will talk about my feelings, but I don't pressure her into it because I know she doesn't always feel the same need.

However, the other night I was talking to her about some issues she has going on in her life, and the topic of therapy came up. She told me that during high school (we're both in college now) she went to a lot of therapy because she thought about suicide a lot. I was absolutely floored by this, because I never got so much as a hint from her that she was even sad. I mean, she was the student body president. She had lots of friends and always seemed to be enjoying life. So this really surprised me.

Naturally, I want to be there for her. I think I'm a very important person to her, and I don't want to lose that. I think she's gotten pissed at a lot of her other friends for being too clingy and "girly" and pushing her for feelings she doesn't want to express or doesn't even have.

Have any other ENTJs gone through depression or anything like it? How do you prefer to deal with it? I know she said this was in the past, but I have a lurking suspicion that she has troubled thoughts now that she doesn't want to tell me about. That's fine if she never wants to tell me, but how can I best "be there" for her? A lot of her problems tend to stem from things not being fixable that can normally be fixed (chronic pain) so it's hard to be of comfort when there's really nothing anyone can do. I don't know whether to comfort her or to just laugh it off with her, you know?
 

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I have a long-time friend who is an ENTJ, and I love her to death. She's a great person to be with, and our friendship is very deep, but not in a direct way. We don't have gushy talk sessions (usually) but we just get each other. I'm the kind of person who will talk about my feelings, but I don't pressure her into it because I know she doesn't always feel the same need.

However, the other night I was talking to her about some issues she has going on in her life, and the topic of therapy came up. She told me that during high school (we're both in college now) she went to a lot of therapy because she thought about suicide a lot. I was absolutely floored by this, because I never got so much as a hint from her that she was even sad. I mean, she was the student body president. She had lots of friends and always seemed to be enjoying life. So this really surprised me.

Naturally, I want to be there for her. I think I'm a very important person to her, and I don't want to lose that. I think she's gotten pissed at a lot of her other friends for being too clingy and "girly" and pushing her for feelings she doesn't want to express or doesn't even have.

Have any other ENTJs gone through depression or anything like it? How do you prefer to deal with it? I know she said this was in the past, but I have a lurking suspicion that she has troubled thoughts now that she doesn't want to tell me about. That's fine if she never wants to tell me, but how can I best "be there" for her? A lot of her problems tend to stem from things not being fixable that can normally be fixed (chronic pain) so it's hard to be of comfort when there's really nothing anyone can do. I don't know whether to comfort her or to just laugh it off with her, you know?
I'm not completely sure what you should do with your friend (I don't have nearly enough info to say that my way of viewing is 'the way' so you may want to take it with a grain of salt) but I know I don't really like getting support from other people because I find that they can never tell me anything I havn't already thought about and I end up feeling weak and even more frustrated than when I kept it to myself. IMO the best thing you can do is just act like you normally do. I think most people gain comfort through having other people know (and validate) their problems but for me it seems to have the reverse effect.
 

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Yes. I lost my best friend/first love. She passed away and I was young and immature, I didn't know how to handle it.

It was completely obvious I was upset though, at least I thought so. I stopped talking to people, isolated myself until the only friends I had left came to dislike me. So, it turned out completely different than with your friend. I also contemplated killing myself but my friend helped me cop on. She caught me mid attempt though, I was too scared to look for help and I didn't want anyone to help me that much anyway. I didn't have many second thoughts until she found me and spoke to me.

But I refused to talk about it to anyone beforehand. I never asked for help. I didn't try to fix the problem, I tried to adapt to it and go through it, rather than overcome it because it seemed too large a wall to ever climb. I wouldn't go near therapy. When I was depressed I denied it, moped around a lot and blamed other sources, became cynical and most importantly I completely isolated myself (which strangely enough, the enneagram and MBT have an explanation for, when you're depressed you use your shadow functions right? Ne Ti Si Fe - INTP. I'm a type 8, when an 8 is stressed/depressed they go towards a 5, INTPs are usually 5s). I trapped myself in my own little world, observing the outer world in disgust (probably why I thought I was an INTJ and a type 5 when I first took the test in school http://www.typefocus.com/s_complimentary.htm which cost 40 euro or something :confused:) I also became more of a perfectionist, couldn't forgive myself if I made mistakes and I was more self-centered than before, it was impossible to please me. Unlike most suicidal people I got an inflamed sense of worth, but I feared no-one else saw "how great I was" and that I'd never belong anyway and no-one wanted me so I should just end my life already.

People must have known I didn't know how to deal with that sort of loss, but nobody did anything so I suppose not. No-one asked was anything wrong (of course apart from friends who knew her and knew I lost her). But they acted like they normally would if I decided to talk to them. No-one told me I changed when I obviously did. I barely recognized myself. You know when you look at your shadow and it's huge and intimidating? You can't see how it's even you. That's how I felt when I looked in the mirror. I could tell I'd completely changed.

I remember now, even around Christmas, surrounded by cheery people, I was still miserable. I have yet to find someone who handled things as strangely as I did.

Before I try to help you why do you think she's troubled thoughts all over again?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes. I lost my best friend/first love. She passed away and I was young and immature, I didn't know how to handle it.

It was completely obvious I was upset though, at least I thought so. I stopped talking to people, isolated myself until the only friends I had left came to dislike me. So, it turned out completely different than with your friend. I also contemplated killing myself but my friend helped me cop on. She caught me mid attempt though, I was too scared to look for help and I didn't want anyone to help me that much anyway. I didn't have many second thoughts until she found me and spoke to me.

But I refused to talk about it to anyone beforehand. I never asked for help. I didn't try to fix the problem, I tried to adapt to it and go through it, rather than overcome it because it seemed too large a wall to ever climb. I wouldn't go near therapy. When I was depressed I denied it, moped around a lot and blamed other sources, became cynical and most importantly I completely isolated myself (which strangely enough, the enneagram and MBT have an explanation for, when you're depressed you use your shadow functions right? Ne Ti Si Fe - INTP. I'm a type 8, when an 8 is stressed/depressed they go towards a 5, INTPs are usually 5s). I trapped myself in my own little world, observing the outer world in disgust (probably why I thought I was an INTJ and a type 5 when I first took the test in school http://www.typefocus.com/s_complimentary.htm which cost 40 euro or something :confused:) I also became more of a perfectionist, couldn't forgive myself if I made mistakes and I was more self-centered than before, it was impossible to please me. Unlike most suicidal people I got an inflamed sense of worth, but I feared no-one else saw "how great I was" and that I'd never belong anyway and no-one wanted me so I should just end my life already.

People must have known I didn't know how to deal with that sort of loss, but nobody did anything so I suppose not. No-one asked was anything wrong (of course apart from friends who knew her and knew I lost her). But they acted like they normally would if I decided to talk to them. No-one told me I changed when I obviously did. I barely recognized myself. You know when you look at your shadow and it's huge and intimidating? You can't see how it's even you. That's how I felt when I looked in the mirror. I could tell I'd completely changed.

I remember now, even around Christmas, surrounded by cheery people, I was still miserable. I have yet to find someone who handled things as strangely as I did.

Before I try to help you why do you think she's troubled thoughts all over again?
I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

We go to different colleges so I haven't seen her enough to be sure, but I think she's staying in a lot more than usual. She's usually a pretty social person, and yet she'll be online late at night when she would have normally been out with friends. She's told me about not wanting to hang out with people, and just not being in the mood. She's still dealing with an issue of chronic pain, and when the pain isn't there the nausea from her pain medication is. She talks about it like it's no big deal, but I think it is. I can't see how you can live like that and not be affected by it. Doctors have had no solution for her, and she's been dealing with it for a long time in her life.

She's very good at putting up walls around herself, and a very good actress to top it off. She could convince anyone she felt find when she didn't if she wanted to.
 

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Heather said:
She's very good at putting up walls around herself, and a very good actress to top it off. She could convince anyone she felt find when she didn't if she wanted to.
Well yeah, ENTJs are generally very hard to crack. VERY.

It takes a special, special person to find themselves in our hearts. But if/when that happens, at least for me, I opened up every corner of my life - unreservedly. Total, absolute trust. If you can manage to get that far with your friend, you can help her in the way that you'd like to. However, letting you in is a decision that she'll have to make, there's not really any way to encourage it further, other than just being helpful and there for her. It's her choice.

I know it sounds like lame advice, but the thing is, we can be darn tricky bunch and difficult to get near...and there's no fast track solution imo.

But maybe one thing to encourage you with...the one individual did find themselves in my heart (for life), was an ENFP. You're so honest, hilarious, compassionate, fun-loving and non-judgemental!! ...Probably my opposite (haha!).

So from my experience, you're probably an EXCELLENT match for her. Keep at it.
 

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Have any other ENTJs gone through depression or anything like it? How do you prefer to deal with it?
I struggle with it every single day. The only effective way I have found to deal with it is by keeping my mind off of it, usually through working.... a LOT. This, of course, is counter-productive in the long run. Unfortunately, I had one such instance of this yesterday. I had a business dinner that I had to attend about an hour and half from home. I have been working every day since December 7 of last year, but when I got home last night, I had an overwhelming feeling that everything was caving in on me both mentally and emotionally. It felt like my body needed a complete reboot.

I slept for 18 hours (which is the equivalent of nearly 5 days of regular sleep for me), apparently getting up at one point to eat something (though I don't remember it) and going back to bed. Even after I woke up, I felt the need to sleep for about 48 more hours. I was, and am, still completely exhausted and feel the weight of the world on my shoulders.

How do I deal with it? That's a good question, but I am not sure that I have found any answers. I do go to a psychiatrist and take anti-depressant medications which work, kinda-sometimes, at best. I was also seeing a psychologist, but I stopped seeing him since I wasn't getting anything from my sessions.

I guess I tend to avoid people quite a bit now, even my handful of friends. It's nothing personal, just I've always been an emotional retard, and despite a large vocabulary, do not possess the correct words and phrasing to explain what's going on in my head - largely because I don't know my damn self. That is maddening by itself, since I am blessed with such high T.

Some days are better than others, of course, but the past several weeks have been just getting worse and worse. At best, days are just kind of muted and lack color... the bad days... ugh, I don't even want to talk about them.
 

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Yes. I lost my best friend/first love. She passed away and I was young and immature, I didn't know how to handle it.

It was completely obvious I was upset though, at least I thought so. I stopped talking to people, isolated myself until the only friends I had left came to dislike me. So, it turned out completely different than with your friend. I also contemplated killing myself but my friend helped me cop on. She caught me mid attempt though, I was too scared to look for help and I didn't want anyone to help me that much anyway. I didn't have many second thoughts until she found me and spoke to me.

But I refused to talk about it to anyone beforehand. I never asked for help. I didn't try to fix the problem, I tried to adapt to it and go through it, rather than overcome it because it seemed too large a wall to ever climb. I wouldn't go near therapy. When I was depressed I denied it, moped around a lot and blamed other sources, became cynical and most importantly I completely isolated myself (which strangely enough, the enneagram and MBT have an explanation for, when you're depressed you use your shadow functions right? Ne Ti Si Fe - INTP. I'm a type 8, when an 8 is stressed/depressed they go towards a 5, INTPs are usually 5s). I trapped myself in my own little world, observing the outer world in disgust (probably why I thought I was an INTJ and a type 5 when I first took the test in school http://www.typefocus.com/s_complimentary.htm which cost 40 euro or something :confused:) I also became more of a perfectionist, couldn't forgive myself if I made mistakes and I was more self-centered than before, it was impossible to please me. Unlike most suicidal people I got an inflamed sense of worth, but I feared no-one else saw "how great I was" and that I'd never belong anyway and no-one wanted me so I should just end my life already.

People must have known I didn't know how to deal with that sort of loss, but nobody did anything so I suppose not. No-one asked was anything wrong (of course apart from friends who knew her and knew I lost her). But they acted like they normally would if I decided to talk to them. No-one told me I changed when I obviously did. I barely recognized myself. You know when you look at your shadow and it's huge and intimidating? You can't see how it's even you. That's how I felt when I looked in the mirror. I could tell I'd completely changed.

I remember now, even around Christmas, surrounded by cheery people, I was still miserable. I have yet to find someone who handled things as strangely as I did.

Before I try to help you why do you think she's troubled thoughts all over again?
I can only feel for you. I got depressed for weeks after watching Bridge to Terabithia just thinking how incredibly sad it must have been for a person's only and closest friend to be snatched away by death in an eyeblink. Just like that; beyond anyone's control. And how much of an impact it would have made on his life. Of course it went much deeper than that too but I won't post it here. I wonder if I could have taken it if it happened to me. I probably would have just ran.. ran away from everything just to have some time alone and share my mourning with no one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well yeah, ENTJs are generally very hard to crack. VERY.

It takes a special, special person to find themselves in our hearts. But if/when that happens, at least for me, I opened up every corner of my life - unreservedly. Total, absolute trust. If you can manage to get that far with your friend, you can help her in the way that you'd like to. However, letting you in is a decision that she'll have to make, there's not really any way to encourage it further, other than just being helpful and there for her. It's her choice.

I know it sounds like lame advice, but the thing is, we can be darn tricky bunch and difficult to get near...and there's no fast track solution imo.

But maybe one thing to encourage you with...the one individual did find themselves in my heart (for life), was an ENFP. You're so honest, hilarious, compassionate, fun-loving and non-judgemental!! ...Probably my opposite (haha!).

So from my experience, you're probably an EXCELLENT match for her. Keep at it.
Yay! :blushed: It's not lame advice at all. I think just being there is how I've gotten as far as I have with her trust, so I understand it. If that's what she needs, I can definitely be there for her without being anything else. Sometimes I just worry that I'm not doing enough, or that I'm missing some silent cry of help.
 

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Yay! :blushed: It's not lame advice at all. I think just being there is how I've gotten as far as I have with her trust, so I understand it. If that's what she needs, I can definitely be there for her without being anything else. Sometimes I just worry that I'm not doing enough, or that I'm missing some silent cry of help.
I don't know what could be holding her back, in my relationship with the ENFP, if anything I'm the more open one.

But maybe I'll throw some ideas at you from the mind of an ENTJ...the biggest roadblocks to an emotional connection is fear of being judged or thought of as inadequate. I won't open up if I think they're going to consider me less of a 'strong' person. I also dislike it if somebody repeatedly makes advances to try and 'help' me, when I've made it clear I don't want it (from them). Its just a strange mood I get in...but if that same person stopped acting "obtrusive", there's a much higher chance I'd just open up spontaneously. I'm not saying you're doing this - its just a heads up.

I hope that helps! In the meantime I'd just say keep doing nice little random acts of kindness - sweet everyday things she'd appreciate. Who knows what'll happen.
 

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I was coming to terms with my sexuality in 12th grade. It didn't help that my grandpa died right before my final school exams and my aunt died right before my university entrance exams. It was a huge mess. I went through depression and a lot of things.

However, I recovered without external help because I didn't want any. It took a while (about a year and half) after I started uni.
 

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When I was depressed, I became more introverted... lots of self reflection... and anger.

Cynical, lonely, impulsive, and I did a lot of things in excess (lots of drinking, lots of eating, lots of exercise, lots of sleep, lots of video games, etc). Probably to take my mind off reality.
 

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But maybe I'll throw some ideas at you from the mind of an ENTJ...the biggest roadblocks to an emotional connection is fear of being judged or thought of as inadequate. I won't open up if I think they're going to consider me less of a 'strong' person. I also dislike it if somebody repeatedly makes advances to try and 'help' me, when I've made it clear I don't want it (from them).
Seconded.

I've been told that I'm too hard on myself, but in other hand I believe that people should climb out by themselves. I kind of see depression like a cluttered attic, it's messy yet fixable, but it won't be clean and you'll find things you never thought/ remembered you have.

Still dislike the idea that I need anyone to save me, though. I'm perfectly/ should be able to fight my own wars and demons. I think I softened a bit, lately the need/ tendency to keep appearances lessened. While I won't expect/want anyone's help, stopping and enjoying the company/ support of other people (I trust) once in awhile makes the fight more bearable.
 

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I've had depression for about 9 months now. I'm on 40mg prozac a day now but all it's done is made my appetite completely disappear.

When it all first started I didn't withdraw but I started hanging out with bad people, drinking, stealing and other things. I don't feel much different now except I've lost nearly all empathy and trust towards anyone. Nobody had a clue and still doesn't except for my mum who took me to the doctor for it.
 

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Overworked and under-appreciated? Under-worked and overlooked? It could happen.. ENTJs like to be effective in what they do, they're not as "fuck everyone" as ENTPs and INTJs are.
 

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I've had depression for about 9 months now. I'm on 40mg prozac a day now but all it's done is made my appetite completely disappear.

Ask your doctor to prescribe you opipramol. It's also an antidepressant, but doesn't effect your appetite the way fluoxetine does [it's prescribed to people with bulimia], though I am not sure if it's legal in your country. My Best Friend suffered from depression so I know something about this shit.

And give the therapy a try :D
 

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Perfectionism can lead sometimes to depression, so, although it's very hard, you sometimes have to let go and accept your flaws. I think that a flexible, calm environment is always very good for curing depression. When it comes to exterior help I see myself so different from others and it will be so hard to express my feelings that i know they don't understand what i 'm going through (which is often true) so they can't give me solutions. Internal problems are always things which will be solved by myself.
 

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Have any other ENTJs gone through depression or anything like it? How do you prefer to deal with it?
I had it really bad once, right before I left my ex. I dealt with it by working out a whole lot, the marriage was so bad and abusive and I needed to get control over SOMETHING before I gained the confidence to leave.

It also helped greatly to have a friend I could talk to, not for advice on what to do, I solve my own problems as far as the actions I take, but to just be a sounding board. That friend had a hard time figuring out how to best help me in the beginning, at first he took it as me asking him to solve my problems, when he realized that wasn't the case at all and it just helps to talk through what I'm thinking to put my thoughts in order he became a great listener.

Just ask your friend questions about her situation now and then to let her know that you are ok with hearing about it. Ask about the situation not about her emotions on the situation.
 

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I think iNtuitives are more prone to depression than Sensing individuals. This is because of the forward-thinking nature ("hope") of iNtuitives which sets them up for disappointment.

I think Sensors get that mid-life crisis because that's when their intuition functions start to really kick in, and the added dimension reduces their experience of living in the moment which could turn ugly if they realise that they haven't really made the right choices in life.

And also, it irks me when people tell the depressed to think positively. It's also irritating when someone tells another that things will get better, that they've seen worse, etc... in a [stupid] attempt to make them feel better. Those words do NOT work and are more likely to backfire by making things worse.

I've been through depression before. :p
 
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