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Discussion Starter #1
Long story short, I don't know my type, I'm fairly certain of IxTx, I have researched the cognitive functions, and read the descriptions of them. However I can't match them up with what goes on in my head, so to speak. I can't identify "What I'm doing now is Ti", for example.

I have a thread elsewhere where I got indications that I'm probably ISTP. However, even though much of me seems to fit with the ISTP type, I'm not entirely convinced. The same person who gave the most input there, also suggested that she (an ISTJ) has trouble following ISTPs' logic, and it seems subjective to her, while to some others it is perfectly clear.

This made me think that it might be easier to understand function descriptions written by my own type. Since I'm not certain of my type, it's a bit of a catch 22, but she and a few others are pretty convinced I'm ISTP, and, as I said, much of me seems to fit with ISTP, so I'd like to try:

Are there any descriptions of cognitive functions - first and foremost Ti, Se, Ni and Fe of course - that are written by ISTPs? If not, could someone who is an ISTP and feel they have a decent grasp of them, please describe them?

Thanks.
 

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I was about to answer your question but I found a post on recognizing an ISTP. It has quotes from ISTPs and INTPs that you may find relatable.

http://personalitycafe.com/istp-articles/76785-recognizing-inferior-function-istp.html

It's a lengthy read though. I skimmed. I suggest using the find tool (Ctrl+F or Command+F) to isolate the ISTP descriptions. Have fun!

Also, I'm sure many people in this forum can attest to not fitting their respective mold/descriptions that are out there, entirely. We're all still individuals after all. So perhaps, "not entirely convinced" will be good enough at some point.
 

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Rustle Thy Jimmies
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ISTJ is nothing at all like ISTP. We tend to despise each other, for the most part.

If you're stuck on those two specifically. Say you're confronted with a problem.

What do you look at first: restrictions of the problem or possible solutions for the problem?
 

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I honestly cannot answer this for you, especially because I'm not an ISTP. However, as I've recently been swooning over one, I've been learning as much as I can to be a better friend to him. I wanted to just chime in and say that your post interested me because when we were discussing types, he admitted that the ISTP description was mostly accurate. Unfortunately, he never elaborated on the parts that weren't. I'm curious now.
 

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Unfortunately, he never elaborated on the parts that weren't. I'm curious now.
Nag him gently until he does. Not all stereotypes are equally applicable to all of us. For example the lack of commitment and romantic promiscuity stereotype has never been applicable to my behaviour, but I still relate to it on an emotional level. I can see the draw and the thrill of trying different kinds of relationships. The only reason I haven't done it is that I always felt that the cons of this approach outweigh the pros.
 

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Ti think deeply, develop personal moral code or ideational framework, engage the environment
Se do spontaneously, intake the entire world in a sensual way, test theories
Ni flip ideas around to see all the various nuances
Fe find the practical people-useful solutions, or simply be good at people-ing or really fucking horrible, depending on situation.
 

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Also, ISTP logic is subjective, however one of the great assets we have compared to ISTJ is they cannot solve any problem they haven’t encountered before. If it doesn’t exist in the vast database of their Si—which is a storehouse of every memory they have ever had—it short circuits them. Contrast with an ISTP who launches into action and tries to solve the problem spontaneously, and usually fairly well. And while istp logic is subjective it is also backed by Se, which takes in the actual world, and Ni which sees all the subtle differences in ideas and arguments. Ti is also relatively dispassionate despite being subjective, typically does not care about other peoples feelings or their own feelings only whether or not something is accurate and it works. ISTJ is rigid, ISTP is flexible.
 

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Also, ISTP logic is subjective, however one of the great assets we have compared to ISTJ is they cannot solve any problem they haven’t encountered before. If it doesn’t exist in the vast database of their Si—which is a storehouse of every memory they have ever had—it short circuits them. Contrast with an ISTP who launches into action and tries to solve the problem spontaneously, and usually fairly well. And while istp logic is subjective it is also backed by Se, which takes in the actual world, and Ni which sees all the subtle differences in ideas and arguments. Ti is also relatively dispassionate despite being subjective, typically does not care about other peoples feelings or their own feelings only whether or not something is accurate and it works. ISTJ is rigid, ISTP is flexible.
Good description. I have to admit I secretly admire Si doms. Their huge database makes them extremely efficient under normal circumstances. Whereas I can never do the same thing twice the same way. I annoy myself with forgetting what I did the last time I had this problem and having to continually reinvent the wheel.
 

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Good description. I have to admit I secretly admire Si doms. Their huge database makes them extremely efficient under normal circumstances. Whereas I can never do the same thing twice the same way. I annoy myself with forgetting what I did the last time I had this problem and having to continually reinvent the wheel.
I can see your point when you put it that way. I tend to hate Si, consequence of dating/marriage to an ISTJ. I admire almost nothing about the type. Because I am mean. :)
 

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the thing with istj is that as an ISTP at first They can convince you that their way of doing things is better, and they can be quite convincing at this. But if you’re in enough problem solving situations with them you will see clear disadvantages in the way their cognitive processes are stacked. sure they’re really good at remembering details from previous problems, and they’re also good at creating the framework to tackle new goals, and can predict future outcomes based on the past but it works until it doesn’t. that is one there is a major advantage in being an istp. Cognitive processes stack up so that the thinking becomes the arrow and the issues become the target. It can definitely be beneficial to have an intense internal framework of how things are but unfortunately we live in a world that is ever evolving and changing so it has its limitations. I think those things are important to remember in contrasting the ISTJ versus the ISTP. One thing I like about ISTJs is that they are relatively undemanding emotionally, so I can see how the types might be mistaken for each other in certain contexts but you always see a lot more liveliness off the ISTP, who can burst into moments of charisma action and caring as quickly as they can say hey bro fuck off.
 

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Rustle Thy Jimmies
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Good description. I have to admit I secretly admire Si doms. Their huge database makes them extremely efficient under normal circumstances. Whereas I can never do the same thing twice the same way. I annoy myself with forgetting what I did the last time I had this problem and having to continually reinvent the wheel.
Notes. Lots of notes. You should see the recipes I write myself, with my little notes jotted down next to various things.

Consequently, it makes our superb ability to cook with recipes possible.
 

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Rustle Thy Jimmies
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Also, ISTP logic is subjective, however one of the great assets we have compared to ISTJ is they cannot solve any problem they haven’t encountered before. If it doesn’t exist in the vast database of their Si—which is a storehouse of every memory they have ever had—it short circuits them. Contrast with an ISTP who launches into action and tries to solve the problem spontaneously, and usually fairly well. And while istp logic is subjective it is also backed by Se, which takes in the actual world, and Ni which sees all the subtle differences in ideas and arguments. Ti is also relatively dispassionate despite being subjective, typically does not care about other peoples feelings or their own feelings only whether or not something is accurate and it works. ISTJ is rigid, ISTP is flexible.
This is what I was trying to say.
 

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the thing with istj is that as an ISTP at first They can convince you that their way of doing things is better, and they can be quite convincing at this. But if you’re in enough problem solving situations with them you will see clear disadvantages in the way their cognitive processes are stacked. sure they’re really good at remembering details from previous problems, and they’re also good at creating the framework to tackle new goals, and can predict future outcomes based on the past but it works until it doesn’t. that is one there is a major advantage in being an istp. Cognitive processes stack up so that the thinking becomes the arrow and the issues become the target. It can definitely be beneficial to have an intense internal framework of how things are but unfortunately we live in a world that is ever evolving and changing so it has its limitations. I think those things are important to remember in contrasting the ISTJ versus the ISTP. One thing I like about ISTJs is that they are relatively undemanding emotionally, so I can see how the types might be mistaken for each other in certain contexts but you always see a lot more liveliness off the ISTP, who can burst into moments of charisma action and caring as quickly as they can say hey bro fuck off.
Way back when I was controller, there was ISTJ I worked with. Well, up until we got into a huge argument and weren't allowed to work with each other ever again. Do you know what kind of colossal shitstorm it takes to have a separation agreement in place for two controllers? It was bad. We almost got into a fist fight.

You see, there are two types of controllers. Those who say anything that is not expressly permitted, is not allowed (ISTJ). And then there's the ones that say anything that is not expressly forbidden is allowed (ISTP).

In every day controlling, the ISTJ was better than me, hands down. He really was a great controller. As long as it was a situation that had been seen multiple times, he would control it VERY efficiently, and without error. It was kind of amazing his ability to control in that regard. Perfect timing, every time. Something I couldn't do. Great teacher as well.

But, once that rulebook went away, he would try so hard to control it the same. And the situations just wouldn't work. He was a good controller, by all means, and always made it work. Somehow. It was just clunky, due to his lack of adaptation.

Now, I was the exact opposite. I was usually put into position when shit got weird. And it was always done differently every single time, as the situation called. Standard traffic? The easiest shit? I was fuckall about. But my style of controlling came in EXTREMELY useful when I was deployed, where no one really knows much of anything and shit goes off the wire almost all the time. Because of that, I was usually put in the busiest position when shit hit the fan. Not because the other controllers were worse, but I was the only one that could handle all the shit REactively vs PROactively. There was one day that was just... yea. It was bad. I handled it without error and at the end, the supervisor told me she was soooooooo happy I was in position and not her because she lost the picture two mins in. My response? I never even HAD the picture, I was winging it the entire time. Probably my favourite 45 mins in position I've ever had, at that.

ISTJs like to have a plan. ISTPs do not.
 

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Notes. Lots of notes. You should see the recipes I write myself, with my little notes jotted down next to various things.
I do notes with a rather small degree of success. I find note taking as boring as it is useful. Therefore I frequently trick myself into thinking that I'm never going to need this again, so I can justify avoiding the boredom. But when it works, it works great. I have a number of infrequently repeating tasks that I would routinely mess up if I didn't keep detailed notes.
 

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Way back when I was controller, there was ISTJ I worked with. Well, up until we got into a huge argument and weren't allowed to work with each other ever again. Do you know what kind of colossal shitstorm it takes to have a separation agreement in place for two controllers? It was bad. We almost got into a fist fight.

You see, there are two types of controllers. Those who say anything that is not expressly permitted, is not allowed (ISTJ). And then there's the ones that say anything that is not expressly forbidden is allowed (ISTP).

In every day controlling, the ISTJ was better than me, hands down. He really was a great controller. As long as it was a situation that had been seen multiple times, he would control it VERY efficiently, and without error. It was kind of amazing his ability to control in that regard. Perfect timing, every time. Something I couldn't do. Great teacher as well.

But, once that rulebook went away, he would try so hard to control it the same. And the situations just wouldn't work. He was a good controller, by all means, and always made it work. Somehow. It was just clunky, due to his lack of adaptation.

Now, I was the exact opposite. I was usually put into position when shit got weird. And it was always done differently every single time, as the situation called. Standard traffic? The easiest shit? I was fuckall about. But my style of controlling came in EXTREMELY useful when I was deployed, where no one really knows much of anything and shit goes off the wire almost all the time. Because of that, I was usually put in the busiest position when shit hit the fan. Not because the other controllers were worse, but I was the only one that could handle all the shit REactively vs PROactively. There was one day that was just... yea. It was bad. I handled it without error and at the end, the supervisor told me she was soooooooo happy I was in position and not her because she lost the picture two mins in. My response? I never even HAD the picture, I was winging it the entire time. Probably my favourite 45 mins in position I've ever had, at that.

ISTJs like to have a plan. ISTPs do not.
Cool story. I'm a programmer, but just like you I work best when there are no rules. Everyday, well defined software development is a slow torture for me. But when a system goes nuts and the situation gets out of hand, I get things fixed by winging it until it works. Also when my colleagues have problems they can't solve they tend to come to me for help.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the replies, but it seems to have more or less derailed already into listing reasons why ISTPs are better than ISTJs. :(

I have read the descriptions so far, does anyone have any longer descriptions written by ISTPs?

I have already read the entire starting post of "Recognizing the Inferior Function in ISTP" before creating this thread. That is one of the pieces of text that I find hard to correlate to myself, at least partially, but I relate to many of the quotes. Unfortunately from both the ISTPs and the INTPs, so no luck there.

(I haven't since I started this thread, and will probably not in the near future, be able to come to PerC very frequently or spend much time here for various reasons. Also, I'm quite tired when writing this post, so sorry if I've missed or confused something here.)
 
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