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Ok, so I'm still familiarizing myself with Myers Briggs theory and the cognitive functions particularly. I've just come back from a month long ban and noticed this new section. I'm happy it's here because I've had a lot of curiousities about cognitive functions. Particularly I would like to know about developing functions that aren't in your preference of dominant, auxilary, teriary, or inferior functions.

I'm sure there's a whole lot of information on this so someone who knows more, can you please post here and tell me more about developing functions that aren't in your preferences. Thanks in advance :laughing:
 

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It's very difficult if not impossible to develop them at least in the sense that you can use them consciously. These functions are essentially part of your shadow (the personal unconscious). I think the goal is less to try to make them conscious and more to assimilate them. That is, to recognize them as being part of yourself instead of projecting them on to others.

The key to recognizing these functions is to understand their "shadowy" nature. When we unconsciously use our shadow functions, we use them in a disagreeable nature. Let me give you an example. According to Beebe, Freud was Fi-dominant. Here's a bit that he wrote about Freud's use of "demonic" Ti:

What is the evidence for shadow introverted thinking? Introverted thinking involves naming things in fresh ways, in relation less to outer definitions already agreed upon than to an archetypal sense of the things’ unconscious resonance. A non-shadowy introverted thinking can often find just the right name for something, but a shadowy introverted thinking may choose a name that gives the thing named a disagreeable association.

Thus Freud named the normal attachment that little boys have for their mothers the ‘Oedipus’ complex, and the normal interest we all have in our own self-image, ‘Narcissism’. But Oedipus actually slept with (and even married) his mother, and had to blind himself for the transgression of looking at her naked. And Narcissus fell in love with his image in a river and drowned trying to kiss it.
The shadow functions often come out when you're mad or stressed for good reason: that's their use. But I think that if you recognize them, you can keep them from running amok and coming out at the wrong time. Indeed, Freud's "shadowy" naming of the Oedipus complex and Narcissism often causes people to misunderstand the concepts.
 

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What do you mean by that? ^

Also, I am a bit confused by the term 'shadow' function. Some clarification would be fantastic :happy:
"Shadow functions" are the functions you're talking about: the functions that aren't your primary, auxiliary, tertiary, or inferior. They essentially make up your Shadow.

Let me give you an example. I am an INTP, which makes Te a shadow function. In general, Te will be concerned with people operating under a common set of logic to better meet their goals. However, shadowy Te might be concerned more with controlling people rather than getting them to work properly. And if I unknowingly use Te to that end, that's what I'll do. The thing is that it takes a great deal of awareness to see this. If we don't, we "project" it. I'll see people who are using Te as people that are trying to control me when in reality I'm just seeing the part of myself in them.

You might want to see this thread if you want to know more about this.
 

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Ok, so I'm still familiarizing myself with Myers Briggs theory and the cognitive functions particularly. I've just come back from a month long ban and noticed this new section. I'm happy it's here because I've had a lot of curiousities about cognitive functions. Particularly I would like to know about developing functions that aren't in your preference of dominant, auxilary, teriary, or inferior functions.

I'm sure there's a whole lot of information on this so someone who knows more, can you please post here and tell me more about developing functions that aren't in your preferences. Thanks in advance :laughing:
I think what you have described here, the development of our I/E opposing functions, is a very interesting idea.

To begin, we need to recognise that each of us does exercise all of the eight different functions to some degree and level of maturity, but in different situations.
It is generally understood that when we become extremely stressed in the normal use of our cognitive functionality, we can to 'switch' to an alter-ego type state. For the purpose of coping with a set of stressful circumstances, we attempt to associate our selves with a personality type that is better suited to dealing with the circumstances, and dissociate ourselves, or 'pull back', from our normal type. The personalty that we take-on is referred to as our shadow type.

For example:
The normal cognitive function model of an ENTP is Ne Ti Fe Si.
The shadow cognitive function model of an ENTP is Ni Te Fi Se.
The normal cognitive function model of an INTJ is Ni Te Fi Se

What can be seen from this example is that the ENTP when under extreme stress exhibits the normal cognitive functionality of an INTJ. Developing, and thereby maturing, our shadow functions is by no means an easy task, but could be useful as it is likely to reduce the duration and effects of extreme stress on us, and make us more resilient to whatever life throws at us.

As I have said, developing these functions is not likely to be an easy task. This is because we associate the use of them with stress, and most of us don't like stress. If you are going to attempt such an exercise, it is STRONGLY recommended that you do so under supervision, and that the supervisor has enough insight and self discipline to maintain an objective perspective while allowing you to explore another side of yourself. It is not enough that an ENTP is supervised by an INTJ. You may wish some instruction and guidance from your 'opposite' type, but a supervisor needs to be just as familiar, and comfortable, with your normal and shadow types as with their own, so that they are able to recognise if it is getting too much for you and can help bring you 'back to reality'.
It is also important that you follow some sort of a plan, such that you are allowed time to prepare, time to explore, and time to recover. This plan is, by necessity, very personal, and your supervisor should help you to set goals and prepare methods that will be helpful. (I'm sure that for some, the process of preparation will be as much of a learning experience as the actual execution of the task.)

I hope this helps. :)
 

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"Shadow functions" are the functions you're talking about: the functions that aren't your primary, auxiliary, tertiary, or inferior. They essentially make up your Shadow.

Let me give you an example. I am an INTP, which makes Te a shadow function. In general, Te will be concerned with people operating under a common set of logic to better meet their goals. However, shadowy Te might be concerned more with controlling people rather than getting them to work properly. And if I unknowingly use Te to that end, that's what I'll do. The thing is that it takes a great deal of awareness to see this. If we don't, we "project" it. I'll see people who are using Te as people that are trying to control me when in reality I'm just seeing the part of myself in them.
QUOTE]

What you've described here is not development of the Te function, but immature use of it. It is easy enough to recognise the immature use of a function, but it is quite another matter to attempt development of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think what you have described here, the development of our I/E opposing functions, is a very interesting idea.
Thanks, it's actually been bugging me as to whether or not this is possible and if so to what degree. I wanted to see what others thought and if anyone has any experience with this.

To begin, we need to recognise that each of us does exercise all of the eight different functions to some degree and level of maturity, but in different situations.
If we all use the eight functions to some degree under some circumstances, perhaps developing our I/E opposing functions is easier than it may appear.

For example:
The normal cognitive function model of an ENTP is Ne Ti Fe Si.
The shadow cognitive function model of an ENTP is Ni Te Fi Se.
The normal cognitive function model of an INTJ is Ni Te Fi Se

What can be seen from this example is that the ENTP when under extreme stress exhibits the normal cognitive functionality of an INTJ. Developing, and thereby maturing, our shadow functions is by no means an easy task, but could be useful as it is likely to reduce the duration and effects of extreme stress on us, and make us more resilient to whatever life throws at us.
So you're saying that developing our shadow functions will only be useful in so much that they'll help us deal with life's stressful events? What about fullfilling your potential as a human being? What about living life to the fullest by experiencing all facets to your persoanlity even those that you thought were inaccesible? The question is to what degree do we shape our own personality...

As I have said, developing these functions is not likely to be an easy task. This is because we associate the use of them with stress, and most of us don't like stress. If you are going to attempt such an exercise, it is STRONGLY recommended that you do so under supervision, and that the supervisor has enough insight and self discipline to maintain an objective perspective while allowing you to explore another side of yourself. It is not enough that an ENTP is supervised by an INTJ. You may wish some instruction and guidance from your 'opposite' type, but a supervisor needs to be just as familiar, and comfortable, with your normal and shadow types as with their own, so that they are able to recognise if it is getting too much for you and can help bring you 'back to reality'.
It surely can't be that dangerous, can it?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The shadow functions often come out when you're mad or stressed for good reason: that's their use. But I think that if you recognize them, you can keep them from running amok and coming out at the wrong time. Indeed, Freud's "shadowy" naming of the Oedipus complex and Narcissism often causes people to misunderstand the concepts.
So, if you learn to develop them so that they are accessible to your personality and you grow to use them outside of stressful situations or 'shadow' modes, are they likey to be more under your control so that the next time you break up with your girlfriend you have 4 drinks instead of 8 on an Se rampage?
 

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If we all use the eight functions to some degree under some circumstances, perhaps developing our I/E opposing functions is easier than it may appear.
The ease with which one can develop a particular function is directly proportional to the mental energy, or willpower, required to exercise it.
We all have one function that comes naturally for us, all other functions require proportionally greater quantities of willpower to use.

So you're saying that developing our shadow functions will only be useful in so much that they'll help us deal with life's stressful events?
Yes, I believe that is correct.
What about fulfilling your potential as a human being? What about living life to the fullest by experiencing all facets to your personality even those that you thought were inaccessible?
Fulfilling your potential as an individual human being is about developing your natural abilities in a healthy environment. It is about filling the potential of your natural endowments, not about seeking to replace them. Only one can be master, all others must be subjected to it. Development of the shadow functions requires the I/E opposing function to usurp the place of your natural preference. Prolonged exercise of the shadow functions is not healthy for the individual, nor for those around.

The question is to what degree do we shape our own personality...
There are many influences on our personality, (biological, psychological, sociological, psycho-spiritual...) The degree to which we are masters of our own destiny is an open debate.

It surely can't be that dangerous, can it?
Yes, it is that dangerous! I can't emphasise this enough!

Most cases of clinically diagnosed Depression are due to induced periods of sustained stress.
Do Not attempt such exercises without proper support and planning.
 

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Hang on a moment - we are jumping the gun a little here with talking about developing the 4 shadow functions.

Let us talk about the first four functions

Our dominant we will use naturally

Our auxiliary is very important to develop as it gives us balance, i.e. the ability to apply judgment to our perceptions, or the ability to collect current or future information for our judgment function to use.

Our tertiary is a little more tricky. It will be directly opposed to the auxiliary in the way it operates i.e. thinking or feeling, and also in attitude: extroverted if the axillary is introverted and vice-versa. Its use precludes the use of the auxiliary, i.e. they will not be used simultaneously i.e. you either use thought or feeling to make a decision, you either perceive the forest or the trees. Depending on the situation one may be more appropriate than the other, so developing the tertiary rounds out a persons abilities. Nevertheless it will require more willpower and awareness to use than the auxiliary.

The inferior function is our achilles heel, the areas in life we have an inferiority complex about. Trying to strengthen this area is worthwhile, but often doesn't happen until mid-life. Often you will have no wish to operate this way, or may be scared to do so. It will take a great deal of willpower and will be a little like using your left hand if you are right handed. Prolonged periods using the inferior function may lead to breakdown.This function will be in use everyday, but by and large you will not be aware of it. Because it is completely unconscious it is wild and uncultivated by conscious use - it will usually express itself in a negative fashion. It may burst though if you use your dominant to excess - this is the psyche re-balancing itself. It may also come through from stress or other triggers such as tiredness. Family and friends who know how to 'press your buttons' can put you into this state,which has been called 'in the grip'.

As someone has already mentioned we tend to project this function onto others, seeing flaws that are unknowingly our own. There is so much more to say on this, and we have not even touched the four archetypal or shadow functions!!!!
 

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I'm an INFP.
What does my shadow functions mean?
How can I understand them? I admit I never did understand them much
 

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Prolonged exercise of the shadow functions is not healthy for the individual, nor for those around.
I am not suggesting that one exercises only the shadow functions but rather combines them with what is already developed. As in the case of Michael Jackson who I believe was either an enfp or infp who had excellent development of his Se, which would be one of his shadow functions clearly.

There are many influences on our personality, (biological, psychological, sociological, psycho-spiritual...) The degree to which we are masters of our own destiny is an open debate.
What is your position in the debate?


Yes, it is that dangerous! I can't emphasise this enough!

Most cases of clinically diagnosed Depression are due to induced periods of sustained stress.
Do Not attempt such exercises without proper support and planning.
Hmmm, are you suggesting mental disorders are a product of being in a shadow mode for a prolonged period of time?

Hang on a moment - we are jumping the gun a little here with talking about developing the 4 shadow functions...There is so much more to say on this, and we have not even touched the four archetypal or shadow functions!!!!
Well kind of, but... if you are interested in the four functions and developing them let me tell you this. Although it is suggested that teriary and inferior functions are developed later in life usually for some people they can be developed a lot earlier depending on the maturity level of the individual and their life circumstances. People with more problems and a harder life tend to develop all four functions at a younger age and can look at then developing part of their shadow imo.
 

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I am not suggesting that one exercises only the shadow functions but rather combines them with what is already developed. As in the case of Michael Jackson who I believe was either an enfp or infp who had excellent development of his Se, which would be one of his shadow functions clearly.


What is your position in the debate?




Hmmm, are you suggesting mental disorders are a product of being in a shadow mode for a prolonged period of time?


Well kind of, but... if you are interested in the four functions and developing them let me tell you this. Although it is suggested that teriary and inferior functions are developed later in life usually for some people they can be developed a lot earlier depending on the maturity level of the individual and their life circumstances. People with more problems and a harder life tend to develop all four functions at a younger age and can look at then developing part of their shadow imo.

With regards to Jacko, remember that Se and Ne are pretty similar to an observer...Also cognitive tests work in a different way to Jungian typology - they assume no relationship between the different functions, so you could score highly on opposites. This also means that test results will vary wildly as you are not having to pick between options (both of which you'd say yes to if you could). So for this reason I would be cautious about saying Se is very strong when you are Ne dominant.

There is another thread about intuitive and athletics and we discussed how Ne can be effective (like Se), particularly in the martial arts.

Regarding Shadow functions, yes I agree we all develop them at differing rates and indeed in different orders. I would say that those who have had a particularly hard life will often have spent along time having to use their tertiary and inferior. The shadow functions, in my view, are something else entirely, being more of a last ditch unconscious protective measure against damage to the ego.

Finally, I hold with Jung's view that the inferior will never be fully conscious no matter how much you develop it - if it were fully accessible there would be no areas where you would be inadequate for the situation and therefore no opportunity for the unconscious to step in and rescue you (using the shadow functions), and therefore no self-growth.
 

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With regards to Jacko, remember that Se and Ne are pretty similar to an observer...Also cognitive tests work in a different way to Jungian typology - they assume no relationship between the different functions, so you could score highly on opposites. This also means that test results will vary wildly as you are not having to pick between options (both of which you'd say yes to if you could). So for this reason I would be cautious about saying Se is very strong when you are Ne dominant.

So if you score highly on opposities what does this say about your personality then?

how are Ne & Se similar to the observer??
 

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Se and Ne are similar because they are both focused on the external - they could both be described as directly fed from sensory experience. The fact that you think Jacko is an Se shows how easily they could be mistaken - i personally am convinced he was Ne. I could be wrong but the mistake is understandable either way. They differ because Se is concerned with the physical object themselves whilst Ne is concerned more with what lies beyond the object, its soul if you like or the connections between it and other objects.

A cognitive test (at least the ones I have seen) acknowledge no link between functions, so you could easily score highly on Ne and Se, but this would give you no idea of type, as for that you have to be given a hard choice between the two in the answers you give which this test does not do. Therefore although you truly might have good abilities in both I think it unlikely they will be anywhere near equal as consciously atleast you will always achieve tasks using your dominant over your inferior or shadow functions.
 

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Trying to strengthen this area is worthwhile, but often doesn't happen until mid-life. Often you will have no wish to operate this way, or may be scared to do so. It will take a great deal of willpower and will be a little like using your left hand if you are right handed. Prolonged periods using the inferior function may lead to breakdown.
And what if you are 'forced' to use a tertiary or inferior function.. my assumption is that you'd use it as tertiary or inferior rather than 'shadow'. For example if you were INFP forced to act in a 'T' way you would naturally use Te which is your inferior function, as opposed to Ti (which would be your 8th function). If you were INFJ you would develop Ti (tertiary). Just as a left-hander forced to use their right hand as a child, would you get used to it and use it well over time? But by denying the 'natural' function (for the INFJ 'Fe' and for the INFP 'Fi') will that have a negative psychological impact? Yes, I'm seeking answers vis-a-vis my other thread.

In reality the mirrors of functions seem like they should be very different - but sometimes when looking at the descriptions they don't seem as different (in the 'I seem to act Xi way in some situations but Xe in others). Would it make sense that if X is not a primary function that difference will be greater? As in.. Say an INFP is reading about or testing individual functions and say 'I'm definitely Te, definitely NOT Ti. But I'm less sure on Fe/Fi' because Fi is their dominant function and Fe their 5th - Fe is going to be more naturally accessible to them. Te is already their fourth function and not well developed, so Ti is going to be very deep and dark and it's use much less accessible to them.

Or am I crazy?

~ Boots ~
 

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The inferior function is our achilles heel, the areas in life we have an inferiority complex about. Trying to strengthen this area is worthwhile, but often doesn't happen until mid-life. Often you will have no wish to operate this way, or may be scared to do so. It will take a great deal of willpower and will be a little like using your left hand if you are right handed. Prolonged periods using the inferior function may lead to breakdown.This function will be in use everyday, but by and large you will not be aware of it. Because it is completely unconscious it is wild and uncultivated by conscious use - it will usually express itself in a negative fashion. It may burst though if you use your dominant to excess - this is the psyche re-balancing itself. It may also come through from stress or other triggers such as tiredness. Family and friends who know how to 'press your buttons' can put you into this state,which has been called 'in the grip'.
Would that be why I (xSFP) have no trust in my Ni? I trust my Te a lot more than even my Fi which I score supremely high in functions tests. One of the ways I was sure of the ESFP thing for myself was precisely because of my lack of trust in my undeveloped and my highly developed function. I can say the reason i don't trust the Fi is pretty much the same reason I don't Ni, because they've failed me so often. That's the only real ground I have other than the theory that my Se was suppressed and Fi over developed due to life circumstances and not being my natural self. Plus if I go by the functions test, I have high Fe and Si over either Ns or Ts.
 

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Like I said it depends on what test you have used to assess your functions. I would use a Myers/Briggs one to see how the preferences compare to one another.

The strengths is something else entirely.

I am not surprised you don't trust Ni if your dominant is Se! Not trusting Fi is different, logically this should be your auxiliary function. I am identify with what you say about the problems caused with overdeveloping your auxiliary over your dominant, but so long as you have them in the correct orientation - dominant leads, auxiliary supports then you should be sorted, at least for the first half of life!

As the earlier poster was saying, using the inferior function (kn your case) Ni can often be harmful if done for extended periods. However from the other side of the coin you could look at it as stress testing your personality, after all it is through your inferior that future self growth will come.
 

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According to theory...

Your preferences indicate which functions you will reflexively use first. In your case, you would use Ne before you would use Ti before you would use Fe before you would use Si.

You will almost always lead with your dominant function. The only time you don't, is when your dominant function defers to a lesser function. To use yourself as an example, you'll always lead your cognitive thought process with your Ne, unless your Ne knows to defer to your Ti. (Even though you're not using Ne, it's still got the priority and chooses not to engage, so the function order is maintained.)

If you encounter something that your Ne cannot solve, you are faced with two choices. Give up, or pass the problem onto your Ti to solve. (Note that in this case, a 'problem' is defined as anything warranting cognitive processes). If your Ti cannot solve, you are faced with two choices. Give up, or pass the problem onto your Fe to solve. If your Fe cannot solve, you are faced with two choices. Give up, or pass the problem onto your Si to solve.

This creates a situation where you gain more experience with (and therefore develop) your Ne than your Ti than your Fe than your Si because the lesser functions are less likely to have to be used, while your dominant and even secondary functions are commonly used. For example, let's say you average use Ne 20 times per thought cycle, Ti 15 times per thought cycle, Fe 10 times per thought cycle, and Si 5 times per thought cycle. You can easily see how the development and preference of these functions will develop into a pattern. However, some problems require more use of certain functions than others, so your development will vary in proportion to the problems you subject yourself to.

The end result of using these functions in real time could look a lot like this graphic, with each use and deference causing repeated loops going to and from each function back to their seniors reporting their findings and receiving their imperatives to continue... In the case of an ENTP, this graphic would show how social interaction could use each function with Ne being the first bar, Ti being the second bar, Fe being the third, and Si being the last. Ne is being used rather extensively, but is often deferring to Ti, which is very often deferring to Fe, which is occasionally checking Si.



As for the shadow functions...

There is all manner of debate as to how the shadow functions develop (or even what they are), but the end result is a similar situation. You're less likely to use those aspects of your mind, and therefore tend to develop them less than your standard functions. However, the more you use them, the cognitive functions' ability to defer to one another create faster tracks once a path is developed.

For example...

You need to use Te. Your Ne and Ti are not doing a good enough job of approximating Te (because together they see how all the details can work together into a larger whole - not quite look at how everything relates from the Te perspective or its capacity to delegate), and you have to go through your Fe, Si, and Ni to get to Te. This is the phase where you are developing a learning curve. It's going to be difficult for you, challenge your sense of how things should be (Fe), require you to focus on your keen memory (Si), and will lead you through those 'aha' moments (Ni) before you can truly develop your ability to think in terms of how things relate on a macro scale (Te). However, each time you travel down this track, your other functions are willing to defer just a little more, and eventually the deferring allows Ne to know when you need to use Te, and skip directly there with almost no sense that you are deferring through your Ti, Fe, Si, and Ni, even though you actually are.

The end result is this. When a function defers, you gain no development with it. Therefore, it is possible to develop a function deep in your shadow set, when faced with enough 'problems' that require its use.

That's how cognitive functions develop.
 

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First off, thanks for reading and replying, every bit of help is useful and is much appreciated. :happy:

Like I said it depends on what test you have used to assess your functions. I would use a Myers/Briggs one to see how the preferences compare to one another.
It was keys2cognition for the functions one. I WISH I could get the real MBTI but I was told it's around 1000$ here and I'm not even sure I can find someone willing to give it. It would make my life so much simpler lol. But then I wouldn't learn anything and be able to help others the only way I know how, by doing. All the non-functions tests I have done recently when in a non-stress or growth mode indicate ESFP but some people are doubting it based on all the details I have given so I'm questioning because they definitely know what they're talking about. It's just I have this "feeling" that I can't be Fi dom if I can't trust it. I also noticed when initially trying all this out, I was definitely under stress so I got INTP all the time. Quite a switch eh? :crazy:

I am not surprised you don't trust Ni if your dominant is Se! Not trusting Fi is different, logically this should be your auxiliary function. I am identify with what you say about the problems caused with overdeveloping your auxiliary over your dominant, but so long as you have them in the correct orientation - dominant leads, auxiliary supports then you should be sorted, at least for the first half of life!
Yeah I actually feel like Te might be what's kicking in right now, when all this time I thought my obsession with logic over feelings meant there was something majorly dysfunctional happening to my emotions. That's kind of how I ended up here.

You said you relate to not being able to trust the highest developed one? Here's a graph I recently made with my functions test results:



I just now noticed my Si is higher than Fe, hmmm...this is puzzling since the theory originator of the chart in PerC is that the shadow functions should mirror the same pattern as the proper ones. What's interesting (to me) if I am ISFP how come I can't trust Fi unless I've mistaken it in my past uses for Ni maybe (doubtful but you never know)? I can certainly think of examples where I've made quick and not so quick judgements about people (good vs bad) and was dead wrong way too often. It's seriously letting me down whatever it is.

Just found this interesting line while looking up where I could find official MBTI testing:
"Dominant Function
According to Myers and Briggs, people use all four cognitive functions. However, one function is generally used in a more conscious and confident way."
I can safely say it isn't Fi that I feel any confidence in whatsoever, obviously, or else I wouldn't be so stuck on this lol. I knew something deep down there was something to this though, yay!

As the earlier poster was saying, using the inferior function (kn your case) Ni can often be harmful if done for extended periods. However from the other side of the coin you could look at it as stress testing your personality, after all it is through your inferior that future self growth will come.
Yeah I was definitely following that. I imaged at first it was only harmful because I couldn't rely on it, but it seems like you are doing harm to your personality right? I'm now just finding my real self that got lost a long time ago which I guess if the first step as I see it. :happy:
 
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